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Author Topic:   Durability of Fuel Tanks and Fuel Hoses

69whaler posted 11-07-2014 06:06 PM ET (US)
Are the [original] fuel tanks and fuel hoses on older Boston Whaler boats still good to use with today's fuel? If not, what needs to be done? I hate to invest $15,000 and have to pull the tank and lines.
jimh posted 11-07-2014 09:36 PM ET (US)
I am not sure what you mean by "today's fuel." Perhaps you are asking about using fuel that is a blend of ethanol and gasoline. If you are concerned about blended fuel, it is often possible to avoid it if you do some research and seek fuel from suppliers who offer pure gasoline.
Aluminum fuel tanks don't really care about blended fuel. They care about water sitting in the bottom of the tank or water sitting outside the tank and keeping the aluminum wet. And particularly if the water is mixed with alcohol that has separated from the fuel. But if the alcohol or ethanol remains in solution with the gasoline, it does not tend to harm aluminum.
Rubber products care very much about being exposed to gasoline blends containing ethanol or other alcohols. Marine fuel hoses made after 1987 are generally rated for use with alcohol blended fuels, but any rubber fuel hose that is 25-years-old can be a problem. The most common fuel hose to suffer deterioration is often the large diameter fuel filler hose from the filler fitting to the tank. Sometimes gasoline is retained in a low spot and starts to weaken the rubber. It is common to replace that part of the fuel hose.
69whaler posted 11-08-2014 02:31 AM ET (US)
How would you check for both of these problems?
jimh posted 11-08-2014 07:15 AM ET (US)
If gasoline is leaking from the fuel filler hose you can usually smell it. On most Boston Whaler boats there will be a deck access pry-out circular plate very close to the fuel tank filler tube. Pry out the deck access plate, lean down, and make a close visual and olfactory inspection.
I don't have any experience with a Boston Whaler boat fuel tank that leaks, and I can't offer any first-hand advice on detecting such a leak. I think if gasoline were leaking out, it would be absorbed in the surrounding foam, and you could smell it. Again, there is a deck access plate near the fuel pick-up tube. Check there for any smell of gasoline.
69whaler posted 11-08-2014 10:52 AM ET (US)
[Were all Boston Whaler boats made after 1980 fitted with aluminum fuel tanks?]
martyn1075 posted 11-08-2014 12:02 PM ET (US)
"[Were all Boston Whaler boats made after 1980 fitted with aluminum fuel tanks?]"
I thought so but maybe there is one model out there that had the exception.
Most companies did the same right up to about 1996-98. Now the plastic movement has taken over. It is rare to find a new boat with an aluminum tank.
jimh posted 11-08-2014 02:14 PM ET (US)
No. Many Boston Whaler boats do not have internal fuel tanks. They use on-deck fuel tanks.
Boston Whaler have used both plastic and aluminum for the internal fuel tank of their boats. It varies with the model and year.
elvis posted 11-08-2014 06:15 PM ET (US)
Sniffing for a leaky tank is a good thought, but that didn't detect several holes in the tank on my 1987 18 Guardian. Only way I found them was by taking out the tank. Sealed by the foam, I found holes big enough to stick your finger through...a very ugly scenario. About a grand later and MANY hours, the old girl now has an all new tank!
[Announced publicly that he had shared privately more information.]
deepwater posted 11-09-2014 01:55 AM ET (US)
What size Boston Whaler boat is 69whaler asking about?
jimh posted 11-09-2014 08:59 AM ET (US)
The fuel hoses from the fuel tank pick up tube on some Boston Whaler boats are made of copper tubing. I have never heard of any particular problem with deterioration of copper tubing used as a fuel hose due to aging or due to the composition of the gasoline fuel. I have not seen any particular pattern of when Boston Whaler used copper tubing for fuel hose in their boats.
The principal concern with fuel hoses deterioration is focused around the epoch of 1987. In 1987 there was a shift to use of rubber fuel hose that was tolerant of gasoline blended with alcohols (such as ethanol). There is a very simple way to identify a rubber fuel hose that has been made with tolerance for gasoline-ethanol blended fuel: the outer jacket of the fuel hose will be marked as "alcohol resistant" or something similar. There is also a requirement that the date of manufacture of rubber hose to be used for fuel lines must be clearly marked on the outer jacket. The age of the rubber fuel hose can be easily determined if the markings are visible.
jimh posted 11-09-2014 09:01 AM ET (US)
Deepwater asks:

quote:
What size Boston Whaler boat is 69whaler asking about?
69whaler is apparently asking about a Boston Whaler of a size that could cost $15,000 to purchase.
I don't think the rubber in the fuel hose or the aluminum in a fuel tank will know about the size of the boat they are being used with, and the boat size will not particularly have an effect on their durability. I think the concern for durability is more related to the age of the boat than to the length of the boat.
martyn1075 posted 11-09-2014 12:22 PM ET (US)
I was referring to the internal tanks of Boston Whaler boats. [It is] true plastic and aluminum tanks were used, depending on the model.
In some cases owners that purchased a boat stock with plastic on-deck tanks have been known to switch them out for a larger custom aluminum tank, for example as used in a Montauk model which was offered with two small portable red tanks.
jimh posted 11-11-2014 01:07 AM ET (US)
When Boston Whaler boats were sold without the mandatory purchase of a Brunswick outboard engine, I don't think Boston Whaler supplied any on-deck fuel tanks with their boats. The dealer that added an engine and rigged the boat may have provided an on-deck fuel tank. There is a lot of information about on-deck fuel tanks in a REFERENCE section article. See:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/onDeckFuelTank.html
jimh posted 11-15-2014 11:19 AM ET (US)
Many rubber products such as gaskets, seals, diaphragms, etc. will be affected if exposed to fuel that is a blend of gasoline and ethanol or other alcohols. Any older rubber component in a fuel system is prone to developing problems if exposed to blended gasoline fuels. While fuel hose began to change to alcohol resistant formulations in c.1987, manufacturers of outboard engines did not always plan for or manufacture rubber components with sufficient resistance or tolerance of blended ethanol-gasoline fuels, and even very recently manufactured products have been found to suffer damage from fuel with high levels of alcohol mixed with gasoline. The concern for possible damage of rubber components by gasoline-ethanol blended fuels is greatest for older rubber products, but it is by no means limited to just 25-year old ones.
Powergroove803 posted 11-19-2014 01:03 PM ET (US)
My 1977 Outrage has a new internal tank that I installed two years ago. The previous owner had removed the old, leaking tank, scraped out all the foam, and had the tank compartment re-gel-coated. I replaced [with a] new aluminum tank and chose not to pour foam into the cavity. This cavity does get water in it and spills out of a tube near the stern of the boat.
When I trailer my boat to the ramp, I can see liquid spilling from the rear as I climbed the hill leaving my driveway. This is a frequent occurrence as that cavity does fill with water, and, when I climb the hill leaving my driveway, the water exits the tube in the rear. Any significant rain or a boat bath and the cavity will fill with water, which then dumps when the boat is nose up.
A couple of months ago I was filling up my internal tank with gasoline, and the nozzle cut off, as it does when a tank is full. My filler tube is particularly temperamental and it frequently cuts off. I was not concerned and thought I had more room in the tank. I continued to pump about another five gallons into the tank.
A week later, I was installing a new radio in the center console. I could smell a very strong odor of gasoline, but I couldn't see anything leaking and could not pinpoint a specific location for the smell.
The next time I trailered the boat to the ramp I could tell that [the usual discharge of liquid often seen while trailering uphill] was gasoline and not water. I took the boat to the car wash and sprayed it down, including trying to spray into the cavity to wash it really well. I assumed that I overfilled the tank and the overfill went into the cavity as I could not see any loose fill hose connections or any other escape path for the gasoline. bad move. The boat ran a few times without any more smell of gas, just a tiny residual [odor] and only occasionally.
One day the motor quit altogether. I took it to the dealer. This is a new engine, a 2014 bought in May. The tank was full of water that had to be emptied and disposed of at $10-per-gallon, plus a new water separator and labor. A repair cost of $470
I elected to take out the [fuel] tank and determine what the problem was. I ran the motor from an auxiliary (not internal) tank.
When I replaced the tank two years ago I replaced the filler hose, the pick-up hose, and the external vent hose, but decided to not replace the three-foot-long vent hose that ran underneath the deck, as it looked to be in great condition--Bad move. This short vent hose had a quarter-sized hole in it, which laid in the tank cavity. When I washed out the cavity, [the wash water] apparently filled the tank with water. [The hole in the vent hose] was also the source of the leak of gasoline when over filling. A $10 hose cost me a bundle. If you ever have to replace anything and a hose can be accessed, replace it!
[I extensively rewrote this narrative to make the order of events more chronological--jimh]
jimh posted 11-20-2014 04:04 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the interesting account of a fuel hose leak in the portion of the fuel hose that runs horizontally across and underneath the deck from the area of the fuel filler inlet to the fuel tank. This area is a prime source of problems for fuel hose leaks. I believe the mechanism that causes the leaks is related to gasoline fuel that is allowed to accumulate and sit in the horizontal part of the hose run. Fuel sitting in that area of the hose will tend to soften the rubber of the hose, permeate the rubber hose, and eventually create a leakage of fuel from the hose. The chance of this occurring is much greater in hoses that run horizontally than ones running vertically.
My recommendations to avoid this are as follows:
--do not fill the fuel tank to the brim and above the brim;
--filling to absolute full tends to result in fuel being pushed into the vent hose. Once in a low spot in the horizontal part of the vent hose, the liquid fuel can block the passage of air to the vent. (Note that in the narrative above the tank was described as being difficult to fill, and this could have been due to fuel trapped in the vent hose which blocked air flow.)
--filling to absolute full tends to leave fuel in the fuel filler hose horizontal section, too. This is also prone to softening and permeation, leading to leaks.
--after adding fuel, intentionally introduce a list to Starboard; this will help any fuel in the horizontal fuel lines run out toward the fuel tank.
When trailering the boat, be aware that going down steep grades on the highway will push the fuel in the tank forward. The pressure of the fuel into the forward part of the tank may push fuel into the filler hose and vent hose, where it may be captured in low spots.
If refurbishing the fuel hoses, install the new hoses with some sort of fixed slope in their horizontal runs so they drain naturally into the fuel tank. This can be done with clamps or spacers.

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Author	Topic: Durability of Fuel Tanks and Fuel Hoses
69whaler	posted 11-07-2014 06:06 PM ET (US) Are the [original] fuel tanks and fuel hoses on older Boston Whaler boats still good to use with today's fuel? If not, what needs to be done? I hate to invest $15,000 and have to pull the tank and lines.
jimh	posted 11-07-2014 09:36 PM ET (US) I am not sure what you mean by "today's fuel." Perhaps you are asking about using fuel that is a blend of ethanol and gasoline. If you are concerned about blended fuel, it is often possible to avoid it if you do some research and seek fuel from suppliers who offer pure gasoline. Aluminum fuel tanks don't really care about blended fuel. They care about water sitting in the bottom of the tank or water sitting outside the tank and keeping the aluminum wet. And particularly if the water is mixed with alcohol that has separated from the fuel. But if the alcohol or ethanol remains in solution with the gasoline, it does not tend to harm aluminum. Rubber products care very much about being exposed to gasoline blends containing ethanol or other alcohols. Marine fuel hoses made after 1987 are generally rated for use with alcohol blended fuels, but any rubber fuel hose that is 25-years-old can be a problem. The most common fuel hose to suffer deterioration is often the large diameter fuel filler hose from the filler fitting to the tank. Sometimes gasoline is retained in a low spot and starts to weaken the rubber. It is common to replace that part of the fuel hose.
69whaler	posted 11-08-2014 02:31 AM ET (US) How would you check for both of these problems?
jimh	posted 11-08-2014 07:15 AM ET (US) If gasoline is leaking from the fuel filler hose you can usually smell it. On most Boston Whaler boats there will be a deck access pry-out circular plate very close to the fuel tank filler tube. Pry out the deck access plate, lean down, and make a close visual and olfactory inspection. I don't have any experience with a Boston Whaler boat fuel tank that leaks, and I can't offer any first-hand advice on detecting such a leak. I think if gasoline were leaking out, it would be absorbed in the surrounding foam, and you could smell it. Again, there is a deck access plate near the fuel pick-up tube. Check there for any smell of gasoline.
69whaler	posted 11-08-2014 10:52 AM ET (US) [Were all Boston Whaler boats made after 1980 fitted with aluminum fuel tanks?]
martyn1075	posted 11-08-2014 12:02 PM ET (US) "[Were all Boston Whaler boats made after 1980 fitted with aluminum fuel tanks?]" I thought so but maybe there is one model out there that had the exception. Most companies did the same right up to about 1996-98. Now the plastic movement has taken over. It is rare to find a new boat with an aluminum tank.
jimh	posted 11-08-2014 02:14 PM ET (US) No. Many Boston Whaler boats do not have internal fuel tanks. They use on-deck fuel tanks. Boston Whaler have used both plastic and aluminum for the internal fuel tank of their boats. It varies with the model and year.
elvis	posted 11-08-2014 06:15 PM ET (US) Sniffing for a leaky tank is a good thought, but that didn't detect several holes in the tank on my 1987 18 Guardian. Only way I found them was by taking out the tank. Sealed by the foam, I found holes big enough to stick your finger through...a very ugly scenario. About a grand later and MANY hours, the old girl now has an all new tank! [Announced publicly that he had shared privately more information.]
deepwater	posted 11-09-2014 01:55 AM ET (US) What size Boston Whaler boat is 69whaler asking about?
jimh	posted 11-09-2014 08:59 AM ET (US) The fuel hoses from the fuel tank pick up tube on some Boston Whaler boats are made of copper tubing. I have never heard of any particular problem with deterioration of copper tubing used as a fuel hose due to aging or due to the composition of the gasoline fuel. I have not seen any particular pattern of when Boston Whaler used copper tubing for fuel hose in their boats. The principal concern with fuel hoses deterioration is focused around the epoch of 1987. In 1987 there was a shift to use of rubber fuel hose that was tolerant of gasoline blended with alcohols (such as ethanol). There is a very simple way to identify a rubber fuel hose that has been made with tolerance for gasoline-ethanol blended fuel: the outer jacket of the fuel hose will be marked as "alcohol resistant" or something similar. There is also a requirement that the date of manufacture of rubber hose to be used for fuel lines must be clearly marked on the outer jacket. The age of the rubber fuel hose can be easily determined if the markings are visible.
jimh	posted 11-09-2014 09:01 AM ET (US) Deepwater asks: quote: What size Boston Whaler boat is 69whaler asking about? 69whaler is apparently asking about a Boston Whaler of a size that could cost $15,000 to purchase. I don't think the rubber in the fuel hose or the aluminum in a fuel tank will know about the size of the boat they are being used with, and the boat size will not particularly have an effect on their durability. I think the concern for durability is more related to the age of the boat than to the length of the boat.
martyn1075	posted 11-09-2014 12:22 PM ET (US) I was referring to the internal tanks of Boston Whaler boats. [It is] true plastic and aluminum tanks were used, depending on the model. In some cases owners that purchased a boat stock with plastic on-deck tanks have been known to switch them out for a larger custom aluminum tank, for example as used in a Montauk model which was offered with two small portable red tanks.
jimh	posted 11-11-2014 01:07 AM ET (US) When Boston Whaler boats were sold without the mandatory purchase of a Brunswick outboard engine, I don't think Boston Whaler supplied any on-deck fuel tanks with their boats. The dealer that added an engine and rigged the boat may have provided an on-deck fuel tank. There is a lot of information about on-deck fuel tanks in a REFERENCE section article. See: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/onDeckFuelTank.html
jimh	posted 11-15-2014 11:19 AM ET (US) Many rubber products such as gaskets, seals, diaphragms, etc. will be affected if exposed to fuel that is a blend of gasoline and ethanol or other alcohols. Any older rubber component in a fuel system is prone to developing problems if exposed to blended gasoline fuels. While fuel hose began to change to alcohol resistant formulations in c.1987, manufacturers of outboard engines did not always plan for or manufacture rubber components with sufficient resistance or tolerance of blended ethanol-gasoline fuels, and even very recently manufactured products have been found to suffer damage from fuel with high levels of alcohol mixed with gasoline. The concern for possible damage of rubber components by gasoline-ethanol blended fuels is greatest for older rubber products, but it is by no means limited to just 25-year old ones.
Powergroove803	posted 11-19-2014 01:03 PM ET (US) My 1977 Outrage has a new internal tank that I installed two years ago. The previous owner had removed the old, leaking tank, scraped out all the foam, and had the tank compartment re-gel-coated. I replaced [with a] new aluminum tank and chose not to pour foam into the cavity. This cavity does get water in it and spills out of a tube near the stern of the boat. When I trailer my boat to the ramp, I can see liquid spilling from the rear as I climbed the hill leaving my driveway. This is a frequent occurrence as that cavity does fill with water, and, when I climb the hill leaving my driveway, the water exits the tube in the rear. Any significant rain or a boat bath and the cavity will fill with water, which then dumps when the boat is nose up. A couple of months ago I was filling up my internal tank with gasoline, and the nozzle cut off, as it does when a tank is full. My filler tube is particularly temperamental and it frequently cuts off. I was not concerned and thought I had more room in the tank. I continued to pump about another five gallons into the tank. A week later, I was installing a new radio in the center console. I could smell a very strong odor of gasoline, but I couldn't see anything leaking and could not pinpoint a specific location for the smell. The next time I trailered the boat to the ramp I could tell that [the usual discharge of liquid often seen while trailering uphill] was gasoline and not water. I took the boat to the car wash and sprayed it down, including trying to spray into the cavity to wash it really well. I assumed that I overfilled the tank and the overfill went into the cavity as I could not see any loose fill hose connections or any other escape path for the gasoline. bad move. The boat ran a few times without any more smell of gas, just a tiny residual [odor] and only occasionally. One day the motor quit altogether. I took it to the dealer. This is a new engine, a 2014 bought in May. The tank was full of water that had to be emptied and disposed of at $10-per-gallon, plus a new water separator and labor. A repair cost of $470 I elected to take out the [fuel] tank and determine what the problem was. I ran the motor from an auxiliary (not internal) tank. When I replaced the tank two years ago I replaced the filler hose, the pick-up hose, and the external vent hose, but decided to not replace the three-foot-long vent hose that ran underneath the deck, as it looked to be in great condition--Bad move. This short vent hose had a quarter-sized hole in it, which laid in the tank cavity. When I washed out the cavity, [the wash water] apparently filled the tank with water. [The hole in the vent hose] was also the source of the leak of gasoline when over filling. A $10 hose cost me a bundle. If you ever have to replace anything and a hose can be accessed, replace it! [I extensively rewrote this narrative to make the order of events more chronological--jimh]
jimh	posted 11-20-2014 04:04 PM ET (US) Thanks for the interesting account of a fuel hose leak in the portion of the fuel hose that runs horizontally across and underneath the deck from the area of the fuel filler inlet to the fuel tank. This area is a prime source of problems for fuel hose leaks. I believe the mechanism that causes the leaks is related to gasoline fuel that is allowed to accumulate and sit in the horizontal part of the hose run. Fuel sitting in that area of the hose will tend to soften the rubber of the hose, permeate the rubber hose, and eventually create a leakage of fuel from the hose. The chance of this occurring is much greater in hoses that run horizontally than ones running vertically. My recommendations to avoid this are as follows: --do not fill the fuel tank to the brim and above the brim; --filling to absolute full tends to result in fuel being pushed into the vent hose. Once in a low spot in the horizontal part of the vent hose, the liquid fuel can block the passage of air to the vent. (Note that in the narrative above the tank was described as being difficult to fill, and this could have been due to fuel trapped in the vent hose which blocked air flow.) --filling to absolute full tends to leave fuel in the fuel filler hose horizontal section, too. This is also prone to softening and permeation, leading to leaks. --after adding fuel, intentionally introduce a list to Starboard; this will help any fuel in the horizontal fuel lines run out toward the fuel tank. When trailering the boat, be aware that going down steep grades on the highway will push the fuel in the tank forward. The pressure of the fuel into the forward part of the tank may push fuel into the filler hose and vent hose, where it may be captured in low spots. If refurbishing the fuel hoses, install the new hoses with some sort of fixed slope in their horizontal runs so they drain naturally into the fuel tank. This can be done with clamps or spacers.