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Author Topic:   Preserving Varnish in Opened Cans

jimh posted 11-12-2014 12:25 PM ET (US)
I am probably the last person to give advice on varnish, but I did come across a very useful idea to preserve unused varnish in an opened can: replace the oxygen-nitrogen atmosphere in the can with an inert gas, Argon. A company is marketing pressurized aerosol cans of what they call "ultra-pure Argon gas" to be used to replace the atmosphere of opened cans of varnish or other paint to better preserve the varnish or paint in storage. See the BLOXYGEN (as in "blocks oxygen") FAQ:
http://www.bloxygen.com/frequently-asked-questions.html
One can sells for $11 and is said to contain enough inert gas for displacing the air in 75 one-quart containers.
I have a can of rather expensive varnish that has been on the shelf for ten years. It is probably too lake to protect it with BLOXYGEN.
Don SSDD posted 11-12-2014 03:44 PM ET (US)
Wonder if it works Jim? It also works on wine- but my wife would say, who has leftover wine?
Don
jimh posted 11-12-2014 05:08 PM ET (US)
Don--your comment reminds me of this old exchange:
Q: Why does wine come in 750-mL bottles?
A: Because that is one serving.
As for whether or not BLOXYGEN will be successful in preventing stored varnish from forming a film or otherwise spoiling, only time will tell.
Plotman posted 11-12-2014 05:50 PM ET (US)
Or find a friend with a welder. Most MIG welders use a mix of Argon and CO2, while TIG welders use pure Argon. Either are heavier than air and would displace the air in the can.
I used to buy the little cans of gas to preserve half drunk bottles of wine until I realized I had a 40 cu foot tank of argon in the garage on my welding cart. Now when I need to, a step to the workbench keeps that wine good for days.
I had some fittings lying around and made a filler that attaches right to the regulator and used ball valve and a short length of copper tubing from our icemaker install. Frankly I use it for wine way more than I ever weld. Have been using the same tank for this purpose for 2-3 years.
fno posted 11-12-2014 07:28 PM ET (US)
In the Great Lakes region you can also lean on your scuba diving buddies for Argon. Almost a necessity for diving in the icebox waters up there. They use it to inflate their drysuits on the assumption that it is less likely to transfer the cold from the water to the diver.
saumon posted 11-12-2014 07:42 PM ET (US)
The inert gas method work. However, there's also a totally free trick for long-term (years) storage: simply store your cans upside-down, that way the film formed by the contact with air will be on the bottom when you'll reopen them.
dfmcintyre posted 11-12-2014 09:17 PM ET (US)
Old time varnish pro would exhale into the can, prior to closing. Said it worked well for him.
Binkster posted 11-13-2014 01:26 PM ET (US)
Just make sure the can is well sealed, and then just turn it upside to to store it. that way no "NEW" air can get into the can, and it will stay skin free for a couple of years at least.
rich
PeteB88 posted 11-13-2014 02:18 PM ET (US)
Upside down. Use cone filters when you decide to use the material.
jimh posted 11-13-2014 03:07 PM ET (US)
BLOXYGEN sounds a lot better. The upside-down method sounds like it only works the first time. The second time, you're back to right-side-up.
Exhaled breath is still high in oxygen. If it weren't then mouth-to-mouth resuscitation would be known as mouth-to-mouth asphyxiation.
andygere posted 11-13-2014 11:56 PM ET (US)
The bloxygen product looks interesting, and a tthe current price of varnish it's probably worth trying.
The wine comment got me thinking: I have this little hand pump that works to pull air out of the headspace in a partially consumed bottle of wine. It uses special little rubber stoppers with a duck's bill check valve built in. I wonder if pouring varnish into a clean wine bottle and evacuating the air with this little pump would help preserve the contents? I use the upside down can method, and it works OK, for a while.
boatdryver posted 11-14-2014 06:50 PM ET (US)
I've used the aerosol Argon product for partially empty wine bottles and it works.
The interesting thing is that even though Argon is heavier than air, the aerosol can when new and full is so light that it "feels" empty. The reflex thing to do is to shake it, which is pointless.
From what I remember from chemistry this is because, unlike propane, the Argon is not under enough pressure to convert it to liquid state, which would require quite a robust container.
So every time I pick it up to use it I can't tell if its all gone unless nothing comes out.
JimL
EJO posted 11-19-2014 12:03 PM ET (US)
I have used the exhale into the can and store upside down. Didn't cost me anything as I must breath daily to take care of my boats and enjoy them. I was succesful for 7 year with a quart of Interlux Schooner varnish that way.
Forget the Argon.
Pete Johnson posted 11-20-2014 02:21 PM ET (US)
I've read in other woodworking discussions of pouring the left over varnish into a soda bottle. Squeeze the bottle until the varnish is at the top of the bottle and seal the bottle with the cap. Squeezing the bottle removes all of the air and the original soda bottle cap should provide an air tight seal. Before doing this check to see if the varnish chemicals won't react unfavorably with the soda bottle plastic.
Pete
Don SSDD posted 11-23-2014 12:46 PM ET (US)
I wonder if the Bloxygen would work to prevent condensation in a fuel tank?
Since I assume the condensation inside a tank comes from the humidity in the air turning into water droplets and the Bloxygen would not contain any humidity?
Don
saumon posted 11-23-2014 12:54 PM ET (US)
Probably for long-term storage, but you'll need to find a way to somewhat close the vent.

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Author	Topic: Preserving Varnish in Opened Cans
jimh	posted 11-12-2014 12:25 PM ET (US) I am probably the last person to give advice on varnish, but I did come across a very useful idea to preserve unused varnish in an opened can: replace the oxygen-nitrogen atmosphere in the can with an inert gas, Argon. A company is marketing pressurized aerosol cans of what they call "ultra-pure Argon gas" to be used to replace the atmosphere of opened cans of varnish or other paint to better preserve the varnish or paint in storage. See the BLOXYGEN (as in "blocks oxygen") FAQ: http://www.bloxygen.com/frequently-asked-questions.html One can sells for $11 and is said to contain enough inert gas for displacing the air in 75 one-quart containers. I have a can of rather expensive varnish that has been on the shelf for ten years. It is probably too lake to protect it with BLOXYGEN.
Don SSDD	posted 11-12-2014 03:44 PM ET (US) Wonder if it works Jim? It also works on wine- but my wife would say, who has leftover wine? Don
jimh	posted 11-12-2014 05:08 PM ET (US) Don--your comment reminds me of this old exchange: Q: Why does wine come in 750-mL bottles? A: Because that is one serving. As for whether or not BLOXYGEN will be successful in preventing stored varnish from forming a film or otherwise spoiling, only time will tell.
Plotman	posted 11-12-2014 05:50 PM ET (US) Or find a friend with a welder. Most MIG welders use a mix of Argon and CO2, while TIG welders use pure Argon. Either are heavier than air and would displace the air in the can. I used to buy the little cans of gas to preserve half drunk bottles of wine until I realized I had a 40 cu foot tank of argon in the garage on my welding cart. Now when I need to, a step to the workbench keeps that wine good for days. I had some fittings lying around and made a filler that attaches right to the regulator and used ball valve and a short length of copper tubing from our icemaker install. Frankly I use it for wine way more than I ever weld. Have been using the same tank for this purpose for 2-3 years.
fno	posted 11-12-2014 07:28 PM ET (US) In the Great Lakes region you can also lean on your scuba diving buddies for Argon. Almost a necessity for diving in the icebox waters up there. They use it to inflate their drysuits on the assumption that it is less likely to transfer the cold from the water to the diver.
saumon	posted 11-12-2014 07:42 PM ET (US) The inert gas method work. However, there's also a totally free trick for long-term (years) storage: simply store your cans upside-down, that way the film formed by the contact with air will be on the bottom when you'll reopen them.
dfmcintyre	posted 11-12-2014 09:17 PM ET (US) Old time varnish pro would exhale into the can, prior to closing. Said it worked well for him.
Binkster	posted 11-13-2014 01:26 PM ET (US) Just make sure the can is well sealed, and then just turn it upside to to store it. that way no "NEW" air can get into the can, and it will stay skin free for a couple of years at least. rich
PeteB88	posted 11-13-2014 02:18 PM ET (US) Upside down. Use cone filters when you decide to use the material.
jimh	posted 11-13-2014 03:07 PM ET (US) BLOXYGEN sounds a lot better. The upside-down method sounds like it only works the first time. The second time, you're back to right-side-up. Exhaled breath is still high in oxygen. If it weren't then mouth-to-mouth resuscitation would be known as mouth-to-mouth asphyxiation.
andygere	posted 11-13-2014 11:56 PM ET (US) The bloxygen product looks interesting, and a tthe current price of varnish it's probably worth trying. The wine comment got me thinking: I have this little hand pump that works to pull air out of the headspace in a partially consumed bottle of wine. It uses special little rubber stoppers with a duck's bill check valve built in. I wonder if pouring varnish into a clean wine bottle and evacuating the air with this little pump would help preserve the contents? I use the upside down can method, and it works OK, for a while.
boatdryver	posted 11-14-2014 06:50 PM ET (US) I've used the aerosol Argon product for partially empty wine bottles and it works. The interesting thing is that even though Argon is heavier than air, the aerosol can when new and full is so light that it "feels" empty. The reflex thing to do is to shake it, which is pointless. From what I remember from chemistry this is because, unlike propane, the Argon is not under enough pressure to convert it to liquid state, which would require quite a robust container. So every time I pick it up to use it I can't tell if its all gone unless nothing comes out. JimL
EJO	posted 11-19-2014 12:03 PM ET (US) I have used the exhale into the can and store upside down. Didn't cost me anything as I must breath daily to take care of my boats and enjoy them. I was succesful for 7 year with a quart of Interlux Schooner varnish that way. Forget the Argon.
Pete Johnson	posted 11-20-2014 02:21 PM ET (US) I've read in other woodworking discussions of pouring the left over varnish into a soda bottle. Squeeze the bottle until the varnish is at the top of the bottle and seal the bottle with the cap. Squeezing the bottle removes all of the air and the original soda bottle cap should provide an air tight seal. Before doing this check to see if the varnish chemicals won't react unfavorably with the soda bottle plastic. Pete
Don SSDD	posted 11-23-2014 12:46 PM ET (US) I wonder if the Bloxygen would work to prevent condensation in a fuel tank? Since I assume the condensation inside a tank comes from the humidity in the air turning into water droplets and the Bloxygen would not contain any humidity? Don
saumon	posted 11-23-2014 12:54 PM ET (US) Probably for long-term storage, but you'll need to find a way to somewhat close the vent.