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Author Topic:   1989 Mariner 60-HP

stevesalick posted 03-09-2015 05:02 PM ET (US)
I have a 1973 Cohasset II with a 1989 60-HP Mercury Mariner. I’ve had this rig for about seven years. About half way through the 2014 boating season in Wisconsin, I had a problem with the engine that I will do my best to describe. I launch the boat, engine starts right up, first time, and I warm up at the boat launch for a couple minutes. Then, I slowly move away from the launch, give it some gas, and 1989 MARINER 60-HP runs perfectly. I can slow down, shift into neutral, reverse, forward, hit the gas, and it runs great. Now I cruise around the lake for half an hour or so. Shut the engine down, fish, swim, or eat some lunch for an average of half an hour. Start the engine, starts right up, warm up for a minute or two, give it some gas, and this is where the problem starts. It will die if I give it gas as I did before. I can’t go faster than a few miles an hour. It chugs, no power, wants to die, etc.
I have tried new gas and oil mix. I replaced the fuel filter, and I checked the fuel line for leaks. I don’t know what’s causing this, I’d appreciate any help on this. Thanks, Steve

jimh posted 03-10-2015 05:28 AM ET (US)
From your narrative the problem onset is after the engine has been fully warmed up and allowed to heat soak for 30-minutes. This suggests that a component is reaching a certain temperature and then malfunctioning. This is typical of electrical components.
Repeat the pattern of operation and induce the failure again. Check the engine for spark. See if all cylinders have spark. (An engine will often start and run at low speed and low loads with one or two cylinders not firing at all. My 1995 Buick V6 was just doing this. It was running on about three or four cylinders, and seemed good at idle but had reduced power on acceleration.) See if the spark timing advances with increasing engine speed.
To check the engine for spark, use an in-line spark tester, like this one from Lisle:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/images/ lisleSparkTester300x191.jpg
BQUICK posted 03-12-2015 02:49 PM ET (US)
Sounds like vapor lock to me. Maybe the motor is running on the hot side and then gets into heat soak. Also, check routing of fuel lines under the cover to make sure lines are not against the block somewhere.
Heat soak can also cause ignition coils to become weak.
jimh posted 03-12-2015 11:31 PM ET (US)
What is the diagnostic test procedure to determine if the cause is vapor lock?
tedious posted 03-13-2015 10:27 AM ET (US)
Steve, can you provide a couple more pieces of information to assist with the diagnosis?
1) If instead of shutting down after half an hour, you just keep cruising around, do the symptoms ever show up?
2) When does the motor go back to operating properly? Not until after you come back on another day or what?
The sudden onset of the problem in mid-2014 makes me suspect an electrical component become weak and unable to handle the heat. Vapor lock is another possibility, but unless you re-routed the fuel lines in mid-2014, it's hard to see how it could have come on suddenly.
Tim
stevesalick posted 03-13-2015 06:57 PM ET (US)
I have run it for an hour or so and have not had the problem, only when I shut the engine off for a swim, fish, lunch, etc. The problem does not go away until the next time I launch the boat, in other words, fully cooled down, a day or two later.
I have not run anything new through the tunnel and the fuel line on either end looks fine.
I appreciate the wracking of brains here, thanks, Steve Salick
jimh posted 03-15-2015 09:57 AM ET (US)
Checking for the presence of spark is a very simple test to perform, and the cost of the in-line spark tester I have recommended is very modest. The spark tester is a good tool to have in the outboard engine toolbox.
Electrical components are well known to be sensitive to the operating temperature. I must also note that electrical components associated with c.1989 outboard engines are somewhat famous for being unreliable. Let me give some examples. On my 1976 Mercury I had a failed rectifier. On my 1987 Yamaha I had two failed stators. On my 1992 Evinrude I had a failed rectifier-regulator. You can see that throughout the epoch 1976 to 1992 I experienced failure of electrical components of my outboard engines, across three brands. All of these problems would manifest themselves as the engine temperature warmed to operating level, then they would restore themselves when the engine cooled down. It is upon this experience that I have recommended to you to investigate the electrical generation of the spark. I also had a good friend with c.1990 Mercury engines, and he replaced many electrical components on a regular basis. The whole outboard industry in that era was somewhat deficient in manufacturing electrical and electronic components that were resistant to problems when they became hot.
jimh posted 03-16-2015 09:05 AM ET (US)
I have observed some very experienced and well-trained outboard engine mechanics assess an engine that has been presented to them as having running problems. The first test they perform is often to check each cylinder for presence of spark. Sometimes this is done with a spark gap tester and terminator that tests all cylinders at once, but test fixtures like that are more expensive than the simple in-line spark tester from Lisle that I recommend.
tedious posted 03-16-2015 06:49 PM ET (US)
Steve, the parts diagrams I looked at (at marineengine.com) are not indexed by year, so if you can provide your serial number I might make a more educated guess. However, it looks like your motor probably has separate capacitive discharge modules for each of the 3 cylinders. In my opinion, that's a very likely component to have a heat-related failure and would cause you to lose a cylinder. However, it could be something even simpler and cheaper, like a spark plug.
In your situation, I'd replace all 3 plugs before your next trip to the lake, and also get a spark tester and bring it along. Then if the failure occurs, test and see if one of the cylinders is not getting a good spark. If one isn't, you may want to try replacing the CD module - they are only around $65. Or you could try swapping the CD modules around from one cylinder to another, and see if the problem follows the module, or whatever. Another route would be to go to your local electronics store and get some cooling spray, and when the problem occurs, see if spraying one of the CD modules brings it back - but that's a bit extreme.
If you're really lucky, it's just a dud plug and you'll be good to go!
Tim
stevesalick posted 03-17-2015 05:11 PM ET (US)
You guys are awesome! I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help. The serial number on the engine is 08396776
If that helps in anyway, great!
Steve
stevesalick posted 03-18-2015 02:04 AM ET (US)
A friend of mine wrote this to me and I wanted to share to see what your thoughts were on his theory:
" I thought you had a pressurized fuel system at first but your motor has a fuel pump and I remember reading last year about this. You might need to replace the diaphragm on the fuel pump.
A common saying is 99% of fuel problems are electrical. It is common for a coil to get warm and then it will malfunction. I had a motorbike that did the same thing so I got it to fail and pulled the plug to check spark. That's how I found a temperature related magneto failure. Heat (heatsoak) will shorten a coils life. Cooling spray is cheap and its a good suggestion to test the CD ignition one at a time.
I remember you said if you pumped the fuel bulb it would continue working for a bit. That seems to make it go back to a fuel delivery problem. (fuel pump diaphragm)"
I think pumping the fuel line was previous to current problem
jimh posted 03-18-2015 06:48 AM ET (US)
Steve recites something his friend said:

quote:
...you said if you pumped the fuel bulb it would continue working for a bit.
That is an important point in making a diagnosis. You should have included that information in your initial narrative.
tedious posted 03-18-2015 08:42 AM ET (US)
Steve, please clarify if pumping the fuel bulb improved the situation, or if that was a previous issue unrelated to the current behavior.
That SN is not recognized on the website I looked at, but no matter - change out the plugs, and if the problem still recurs, check the spark, report results, and we'll go from there.
Tim
stevesalick posted 03-18-2015 06:36 PM ET (US)
Regarding, pumping the fuel bulb.
That was a previous problem. This last year with the problem I have described, the fuel line bulb remained hard and did not require, or you could not pump it.
At this point, it sounds like the easiest fix would be to try new plugs and take it from there. I will report back and again thank you all for your help!
All we need now is some warmer weather, we've had some nice days but for instance this Saturday, only a high in the 30's is predicted.
Please think warm thoughts.
Steve
cohasett73 posted 03-19-2015 04:07 PM ET (US)
Hi Steve, I agree with Tedious about the plugs. Can't hurt as I don't recall you ever changing them unless they were replaced when you had the Switch Box replaced? Speaking of that, how did the engine act that time?
Tom from Rubicon
stevesalick posted 03-19-2015 04:52 PM ET (US)
Thanks for weighing in there Tom from Rubicon, old buddy right up the road. When the Switch Box was replaced, or Brain Box as I called it, I cannot remember the symptoms, it was maybe 6 years ago and my memory is not what it used to be. Maybe I could find the receipt from the Mercury dealer and see if it lists the symptoms.
We'll start with the plugs and see what happens. Do you think we could do that up at your house in a 55 gallon drum or do you think we gotta punch a hole in the ice and get'er in the water? Or wait till Spring.
FYI - I store my boat in the winter up at Tom's in Rubicon.
cohasett73 posted 03-21-2015 09:39 AM ET (US)
(To keep this relevant)
Steve, you need to find the work receipt it may be of use for diagnosing the engine fault. I have given more thought to the conditions when you restart the engine, it is a cold start much like to conditions when you launch.
Come over when you can, we will run the engine in the barrel. The Ring of Fire spark plugs may be fouled who knows. You may also want to purchase a Clymer shop manual for the make, model, and year of the engine. Clymer's have a diagnostic section that may be useful. It is Spring time in Wisconsin!
Tom from Rubicon
cohasett73 posted 03-21-2015 09:43 AM ET (US)
Just reread your first post. I am wondering if the fuel tanks are vented adequately.
Tom from Rubicon

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Author	Topic: 1989 Mariner 60-HP
stevesalick	posted 03-09-2015 05:02 PM ET (US) I have a 1973 Cohasset II with a 1989 60-HP Mercury Mariner. I’ve had this rig for about seven years. About half way through the 2014 boating season in Wisconsin, I had a problem with the engine that I will do my best to describe. I launch the boat, engine starts right up, first time, and I warm up at the boat launch for a couple minutes. Then, I slowly move away from the launch, give it some gas, and 1989 MARINER 60-HP runs perfectly. I can slow down, shift into neutral, reverse, forward, hit the gas, and it runs great. Now I cruise around the lake for half an hour or so. Shut the engine down, fish, swim, or eat some lunch for an average of half an hour. Start the engine, starts right up, warm up for a minute or two, give it some gas, and this is where the problem starts. It will die if I give it gas as I did before. I can’t go faster than a few miles an hour. It chugs, no power, wants to die, etc. I have tried new gas and oil mix. I replaced the fuel filter, and I checked the fuel line for leaks. I don’t know what’s causing this, I’d appreciate any help on this. Thanks, Steve
jimh	posted 03-10-2015 05:28 AM ET (US) From your narrative the problem onset is after the engine has been fully warmed up and allowed to heat soak for 30-minutes. This suggests that a component is reaching a certain temperature and then malfunctioning. This is typical of electrical components. Repeat the pattern of operation and induce the failure again. Check the engine for spark. See if all cylinders have spark. (An engine will often start and run at low speed and low loads with one or two cylinders not firing at all. My 1995 Buick V6 was just doing this. It was running on about three or four cylinders, and seemed good at idle but had reduced power on acceleration.) See if the spark timing advances with increasing engine speed. To check the engine for spark, use an in-line spark tester, like this one from Lisle: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/images/ lisleSparkTester300x191.jpg
BQUICK	posted 03-12-2015 02:49 PM ET (US) Sounds like vapor lock to me. Maybe the motor is running on the hot side and then gets into heat soak. Also, check routing of fuel lines under the cover to make sure lines are not against the block somewhere. Heat soak can also cause ignition coils to become weak.
jimh	posted 03-12-2015 11:31 PM ET (US) What is the diagnostic test procedure to determine if the cause is vapor lock?
tedious	posted 03-13-2015 10:27 AM ET (US) Steve, can you provide a couple more pieces of information to assist with the diagnosis? 1) If instead of shutting down after half an hour, you just keep cruising around, do the symptoms ever show up? 2) When does the motor go back to operating properly? Not until after you come back on another day or what? The sudden onset of the problem in mid-2014 makes me suspect an electrical component become weak and unable to handle the heat. Vapor lock is another possibility, but unless you re-routed the fuel lines in mid-2014, it's hard to see how it could have come on suddenly. Tim
stevesalick	posted 03-13-2015 06:57 PM ET (US) I have run it for an hour or so and have not had the problem, only when I shut the engine off for a swim, fish, lunch, etc. The problem does not go away until the next time I launch the boat, in other words, fully cooled down, a day or two later. I have not run anything new through the tunnel and the fuel line on either end looks fine. I appreciate the wracking of brains here, thanks, Steve Salick
jimh	posted 03-15-2015 09:57 AM ET (US) Checking for the presence of spark is a very simple test to perform, and the cost of the in-line spark tester I have recommended is very modest. The spark tester is a good tool to have in the outboard engine toolbox. Electrical components are well known to be sensitive to the operating temperature. I must also note that electrical components associated with c.1989 outboard engines are somewhat famous for being unreliable. Let me give some examples. On my 1976 Mercury I had a failed rectifier. On my 1987 Yamaha I had two failed stators. On my 1992 Evinrude I had a failed rectifier-regulator. You can see that throughout the epoch 1976 to 1992 I experienced failure of electrical components of my outboard engines, across three brands. All of these problems would manifest themselves as the engine temperature warmed to operating level, then they would restore themselves when the engine cooled down. It is upon this experience that I have recommended to you to investigate the electrical generation of the spark. I also had a good friend with c.1990 Mercury engines, and he replaced many electrical components on a regular basis. The whole outboard industry in that era was somewhat deficient in manufacturing electrical and electronic components that were resistant to problems when they became hot.
jimh	posted 03-16-2015 09:05 AM ET (US) I have observed some very experienced and well-trained outboard engine mechanics assess an engine that has been presented to them as having running problems. The first test they perform is often to check each cylinder for presence of spark. Sometimes this is done with a spark gap tester and terminator that tests all cylinders at once, but test fixtures like that are more expensive than the simple in-line spark tester from Lisle that I recommend.
tedious	posted 03-16-2015 06:49 PM ET (US) Steve, the parts diagrams I looked at (at marineengine.com) are not indexed by year, so if you can provide your serial number I might make a more educated guess. However, it looks like your motor probably has separate capacitive discharge modules for each of the 3 cylinders. In my opinion, that's a very likely component to have a heat-related failure and would cause you to lose a cylinder. However, it could be something even simpler and cheaper, like a spark plug. In your situation, I'd replace all 3 plugs before your next trip to the lake, and also get a spark tester and bring it along. Then if the failure occurs, test and see if one of the cylinders is not getting a good spark. If one isn't, you may want to try replacing the CD module - they are only around $65. Or you could try swapping the CD modules around from one cylinder to another, and see if the problem follows the module, or whatever. Another route would be to go to your local electronics store and get some cooling spray, and when the problem occurs, see if spraying one of the CD modules brings it back - but that's a bit extreme. If you're really lucky, it's just a dud plug and you'll be good to go! Tim
stevesalick	posted 03-17-2015 05:11 PM ET (US) You guys are awesome! I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help. The serial number on the engine is 08396776 If that helps in anyway, great! Steve
stevesalick	posted 03-18-2015 02:04 AM ET (US) A friend of mine wrote this to me and I wanted to share to see what your thoughts were on his theory: " I thought you had a pressurized fuel system at first but your motor has a fuel pump and I remember reading last year about this. You might need to replace the diaphragm on the fuel pump. A common saying is 99% of fuel problems are electrical. It is common for a coil to get warm and then it will malfunction. I had a motorbike that did the same thing so I got it to fail and pulled the plug to check spark. That's how I found a temperature related magneto failure. Heat (heatsoak) will shorten a coils life. Cooling spray is cheap and its a good suggestion to test the CD ignition one at a time. I remember you said if you pumped the fuel bulb it would continue working for a bit. That seems to make it go back to a fuel delivery problem. (fuel pump diaphragm)" I think pumping the fuel line was previous to current problem
jimh	posted 03-18-2015 06:48 AM ET (US) Steve recites something his friend said: quote: ...you said if you pumped the fuel bulb it would continue working for a bit. That is an important point in making a diagnosis. You should have included that information in your initial narrative.
tedious	posted 03-18-2015 08:42 AM ET (US) Steve, please clarify if pumping the fuel bulb improved the situation, or if that was a previous issue unrelated to the current behavior. That SN is not recognized on the website I looked at, but no matter - change out the plugs, and if the problem still recurs, check the spark, report results, and we'll go from there. Tim
stevesalick	posted 03-18-2015 06:36 PM ET (US) Regarding, pumping the fuel bulb. That was a previous problem. This last year with the problem I have described, the fuel line bulb remained hard and did not require, or you could not pump it. At this point, it sounds like the easiest fix would be to try new plugs and take it from there. I will report back and again thank you all for your help! All we need now is some warmer weather, we've had some nice days but for instance this Saturday, only a high in the 30's is predicted. Please think warm thoughts. Steve
cohasett73	posted 03-19-2015 04:07 PM ET (US) Hi Steve, I agree with Tedious about the plugs. Can't hurt as I don't recall you ever changing them unless they were replaced when you had the Switch Box replaced? Speaking of that, how did the engine act that time? Tom from Rubicon
stevesalick	posted 03-19-2015 04:52 PM ET (US) Thanks for weighing in there Tom from Rubicon, old buddy right up the road. When the Switch Box was replaced, or Brain Box as I called it, I cannot remember the symptoms, it was maybe 6 years ago and my memory is not what it used to be. Maybe I could find the receipt from the Mercury dealer and see if it lists the symptoms. We'll start with the plugs and see what happens. Do you think we could do that up at your house in a 55 gallon drum or do you think we gotta punch a hole in the ice and get'er in the water? Or wait till Spring. FYI - I store my boat in the winter up at Tom's in Rubicon.
cohasett73	posted 03-21-2015 09:39 AM ET (US) (To keep this relevant) Steve, you need to find the work receipt it may be of use for diagnosing the engine fault. I have given more thought to the conditions when you restart the engine, it is a cold start much like to conditions when you launch. Come over when you can, we will run the engine in the barrel. The Ring of Fire spark plugs may be fouled who knows. You may also want to purchase a Clymer shop manual for the make, model, and year of the engine. Clymer's have a diagnostic section that may be useful. It is Spring time in Wisconsin! Tom from Rubicon
cohasett73	posted 03-21-2015 09:43 AM ET (US) Just reread your first post. I am wondering if the fuel tanks are vented adequately. Tom from Rubicon