23 Walkaround 6-inch Setback and Jackplate - Moderated Discussion Areas

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Author Topic:   23 Walkaround 6-inch Setback and Jackplate

acseatsri posted 03-17-2015 06:42 AM ET (US)
Is it feasible to run a 6-inch setback and jackplate on a 23 WALKAROUND to be able to use a 25-inch shaft on a 30-inch transom? Measured 29-inch on the transon, motor would probably run 3-inch below transom.
jimh posted 03-17-2015 08:00 AM ET (US)
You have me a bit confused. The 23 WALKAROUND transom is designed for twin engines of 25-inch shaft or a single engine of 30-inch shaft.
I don't understand how a set back bracket and jack plate will help with fitting a 25-inch shaft engine:
--if the engines are twins, a 25-inch shaft is the correct engine shaft length;
--if the engine is a single engine, a set back bracket and jack plate will only tend to raise the 25-inch engine higher, and you probably need to lower it because the transom is sized for a 30-inch engine.
Can you explain a bit more about what you are trying to accomplish?
tedious posted 03-17-2015 08:33 AM ET (US)
ACSEATSRI appears to be talking about using a set back jack plate to move the motor 6-inches back, and 3-inches down from the position in which one would mount the proper 30-inch-shaft motor.
I'd give you a definite maybe on that - it might work fine, or you might experience prop ventilation. Either way, your powerhead is going to be nearer the water than the designer of the boat or motor intended, which could be a problem in following seas. Nothing like hydrolock to instantly destroy a motor and potentially leave you in an unsafe condition!
jimh posted 03-17-2015 11:20 AM ET (US)
I think a set back bracket that provided for a range of motion that would lower the engine mounting height is unusual. Most of the ones I have seen tend to incorporate a raising of the engine even at the lowest possible position.
I will wait for ACSEATSRI to clarify his intentions. Perhaps he has some sort of device in mind to lower his engine mounting.
In any case, lowering the engine mounting must be evaluated with an eye to where the steering gear will go when the engine is tilted up, as well as to the range of motion when tilted up due to the transom being 5-inches higher than normal relative to the engine.
jimh posted 03-17-2015 03:19 PM ET (US)
It would make more sense, be less complicated, and not cost any more to obtain a 5-inch shaft extension kit and convert the 25-inch engine shaft to a 30-inch engine shaft.
acseatsri posted 03-17-2015 04:51 PM ET (US)
It's exactly as tedious said. Does Honda sell a kit to extend the shaft, and, if so, what's involved in installing it? Does the power head need to come off, or does the gear case need to be disassembled? I'm considering a 23WA if I can get my Honda 250 with 25 inch shaft mounted properly. I wouldn't even consider cutting down the transom.
It appears that the bracket would work by raising the engine before tilting, there,s enough room below the transom to bolt it. I haven't checked yet, but it appears the hydraulic steering would not have any interference problems as long as the motor was raised before tilting.
Hoosier posted 03-17-2015 08:25 PM ET (US)
I have a 23 WA that does not have Whaler Drive. I have a huge problem with the engine tilt; they hit the transom door when tilted all the way up. You should check that, a crunshed cowling is no fun, I know, I have two of them....
Jeff posted 03-18-2015 10:18 AM ET (US)
Here is a thread on 23 Walkarounds with single engine powering..
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/004602.html
I would be surprised if Honda sold a 5" extension for the lower unit to get you to a 30" leg. I know Mercury has kits to go from 20" to 25" and it is just a swap out of the lower unit.
Jeff posted 03-18-2015 10:28 AM ET (US)
Well, it looks like you can take a 25" XL shaft Honda and extend it to a 30" XXL. You would need the 5" extension spacer and the longer drive shaft installed into the lower unit. There should be no need to pull the powerhead.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Misc%20Whaler/ honda_zpsgdebmaku.jpg
acseatsri posted 03-18-2015 05:49 PM ET (US)
The shift shaft is what Im worried about. I doubt the parts will be more than $1500, it's the labor I'm worried about if the power head has to come off. And what kind of a job is it to reset the gear lash in the gear case?
jimh posted 03-19-2015 09:33 AM ET (US)
How could you raise the engine set back bracket or jack plate all the time to tilt the engine up with proper clearance? You'd have to invest in a very expensive hydraulically adjustable jack plate. And, again, I don't think most of these jack plates provide for the engine position to be lower than normal at the lowest setting. I'd like to see a link to a jack plate that can do what is being described by ACSEATSRI.
acseatsri posted 03-19-2015 08:47 PM ET (US)
Why couldn't you just mount the jackplate a little lower than normal? All it does is bolt to the transom. And yes, it was a hydraulic jackplate, but could be cheaper than extending the shaft. I've pretty much already ruled this out.
http://www.seastarsolutions.com/products/seastar-jack-plates/#HD
Looking at the parts needed to extend the leg now. Per the factory service manual, the driveshaft, shift rod (or maybe an extension), 5" spacer, and 6 (longer) studs are required. The gearcase will need to be dis-assembled and gear lash re-set at re-assembly. Haven't received the prices yet.
jimh posted 03-20-2015 09:46 AM ET (US)
Abandoning the Frankenstein jack plate approach is a good decision. I think you would have run into problems with tilting the engine, particularly with the very short set back of the jack plate you linked to (above).
Regarding the conversion of the outboard engine to 30-inch shaft from 25-inch shaft, in some brands and models the longer shaft drive shaft is just an extension that can be retro-fitted in the field by being spliced or coupled onto to the original shaft. It sounds like in the case of the HONDA outboard, you are going to be partially disassembling the gear case to change the whole drive shaft, and the new shaft will be one piece. While that is probably a better approach, it does make the conversion more difficult and probably more expensive.

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Author	Topic: 23 Walkaround 6-inch Setback and Jackplate
acseatsri	posted 03-17-2015 06:42 AM ET (US) Is it feasible to run a 6-inch setback and jackplate on a 23 WALKAROUND to be able to use a 25-inch shaft on a 30-inch transom? Measured 29-inch on the transon, motor would probably run 3-inch below transom.
jimh	posted 03-17-2015 08:00 AM ET (US) You have me a bit confused. The 23 WALKAROUND transom is designed for twin engines of 25-inch shaft or a single engine of 30-inch shaft. I don't understand how a set back bracket and jack plate will help with fitting a 25-inch shaft engine: --if the engines are twins, a 25-inch shaft is the correct engine shaft length; --if the engine is a single engine, a set back bracket and jack plate will only tend to raise the 25-inch engine higher, and you probably need to lower it because the transom is sized for a 30-inch engine. Can you explain a bit more about what you are trying to accomplish?
tedious	posted 03-17-2015 08:33 AM ET (US) ACSEATSRI appears to be talking about using a set back jack plate to move the motor 6-inches back, and 3-inches down from the position in which one would mount the proper 30-inch-shaft motor. I'd give you a definite maybe on that - it might work fine, or you might experience prop ventilation. Either way, your powerhead is going to be nearer the water than the designer of the boat or motor intended, which could be a problem in following seas. Nothing like hydrolock to instantly destroy a motor and potentially leave you in an unsafe condition!
jimh	posted 03-17-2015 11:20 AM ET (US) I think a set back bracket that provided for a range of motion that would lower the engine mounting height is unusual. Most of the ones I have seen tend to incorporate a raising of the engine even at the lowest possible position. I will wait for ACSEATSRI to clarify his intentions. Perhaps he has some sort of device in mind to lower his engine mounting. In any case, lowering the engine mounting must be evaluated with an eye to where the steering gear will go when the engine is tilted up, as well as to the range of motion when tilted up due to the transom being 5-inches higher than normal relative to the engine.
jimh	posted 03-17-2015 03:19 PM ET (US) It would make more sense, be less complicated, and not cost any more to obtain a 5-inch shaft extension kit and convert the 25-inch engine shaft to a 30-inch engine shaft.
acseatsri	posted 03-17-2015 04:51 PM ET (US) It's exactly as tedious said. Does Honda sell a kit to extend the shaft, and, if so, what's involved in installing it? Does the power head need to come off, or does the gear case need to be disassembled? I'm considering a 23WA if I can get my Honda 250 with 25 inch shaft mounted properly. I wouldn't even consider cutting down the transom. It appears that the bracket would work by raising the engine before tilting, there,s enough room below the transom to bolt it. I haven't checked yet, but it appears the hydraulic steering would not have any interference problems as long as the motor was raised before tilting.
Hoosier	posted 03-17-2015 08:25 PM ET (US) I have a 23 WA that does not have Whaler Drive. I have a huge problem with the engine tilt; they hit the transom door when tilted all the way up. You should check that, a crunshed cowling is no fun, I know, I have two of them....
Jeff	posted 03-18-2015 10:18 AM ET (US) Here is a thread on 23 Walkarounds with single engine powering.. http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/004602.html I would be surprised if Honda sold a 5" extension for the lower unit to get you to a 30" leg. I know Mercury has kits to go from 20" to 25" and it is just a swap out of the lower unit.
Jeff	posted 03-18-2015 10:28 AM ET (US) Well, it looks like you can take a 25" XL shaft Honda and extend it to a 30" XXL. You would need the 5" extension spacer and the longer drive shaft installed into the lower unit. There should be no need to pull the powerhead. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Misc%20Whaler/ honda_zpsgdebmaku.jpg
acseatsri	posted 03-18-2015 05:49 PM ET (US) The shift shaft is what Im worried about. I doubt the parts will be more than $1500, it's the labor I'm worried about if the power head has to come off. And what kind of a job is it to reset the gear lash in the gear case?
jimh	posted 03-19-2015 09:33 AM ET (US) How could you raise the engine set back bracket or jack plate all the time to tilt the engine up with proper clearance? You'd have to invest in a very expensive hydraulically adjustable jack plate. And, again, I don't think most of these jack plates provide for the engine position to be lower than normal at the lowest setting. I'd like to see a link to a jack plate that can do what is being described by ACSEATSRI.
acseatsri	posted 03-19-2015 08:47 PM ET (US) Why couldn't you just mount the jackplate a little lower than normal? All it does is bolt to the transom. And yes, it was a hydraulic jackplate, but could be cheaper than extending the shaft. I've pretty much already ruled this out. http://www.seastarsolutions.com/products/seastar-jack-plates/#HD Looking at the parts needed to extend the leg now. Per the factory service manual, the driveshaft, shift rod (or maybe an extension), 5" spacer, and 6 (longer) studs are required. The gearcase will need to be dis-assembled and gear lash re-set at re-assembly. Haven't received the prices yet.
jimh	posted 03-20-2015 09:46 AM ET (US) Abandoning the Frankenstein jack plate approach is a good decision. I think you would have run into problems with tilting the engine, particularly with the very short set back of the jack plate you linked to (above). Regarding the conversion of the outboard engine to 30-inch shaft from 25-inch shaft, in some brands and models the longer shaft drive shaft is just an extension that can be retro-fitted in the field by being spliced or coupled onto to the original shaft. It sounds like in the case of the HONDA outboard, you are going to be partially disassembling the gear case to change the whole drive shaft, and the new shaft will be one piece. While that is probably a better approach, it does make the conversion more difficult and probably more expensive.