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Author Topic:   Water in E-TEC Gear Case

Ducktown posted 03-22-2015 08:15 AM ET (US)
I have 1987 Whaler Montauk with a 2009 E-TEC 90-HP, both bought used five years ago. At the end of every season, I drain the gear case, and every year find that saltwater has contaminated the gear case lubricant. I replace with clean lubricant before winterizing the motor.
Each spring I ask my authorized E-TEC marina to determine what is causing the problem. One year I was told it was an old filler screw gasket. Another year, the propeller shaft gasket. Last year they did a pressure check with no negative results. Still, every fall, including again last year, the gear case lubricant is contaminated.
At the a boat show this February I asked a number of experts what the problem might be. One place suggested the propeller shaft might be ever so slightly bent. The folks at the Evinrude booth said that was unlikely and to just have my marina do a complete re-seal of the lower unit, which I am planning to do.
Have others experienced this with an E-TEC? Does anyone know whether the re-sealing will solve this problem?

jimh posted 03-22-2015 08:20 AM ET (US)
[Moved to REPAIRS/MODS]
jimh posted 03-22-2015 08:27 AM ET (US)

quote:
Have others experienced [chronic problems with intrusion of water into the gear case] with an E-TEC?
I have not. As far as I know, there are thousands and thousands of E-TEC engines with gear cases that do not chronically have ingress of seawater into their lubrication, so the problem you are experiencing is atypical. However, it is a common problem with any outboard engine gear case.

quote:
Does anyone know whether the re-sealing will solve this problem?
Replacement of the propeller shaft seals and other seals on the gear case would seem to be the best approach to resolving the problem. It is odd that a pressure test of the gear case does not detect any leak. Ingress of seawater into the gear case from poor sealing at the filler and vent holes is common, and is usually caused by re-use of the sealing washers.
The gear case generally has three shafts which must be sealed:
--the propeller shaft
--the drive shaft
--the shift shaft
And the gear case usually has two inlets for adding lubricant or venting. This makes a total of five location where water could enter the gear case.
Ducktown posted 03-22-2015 08:45 AM ET (US)
Jim--thanks for the quick response.--Ducktown
jimh posted 03-22-2015 11:48 AM ET (US)
It occurs to me that perhaps the problem is in the determination of contamination of the lubricant. Could you explain how you determined that the gear case lubricant was contaminated with saltwater?
Most modern gear case lubricants have additives that will keep any water in them in an emulsion. Do you actually have just water coming out of the gear case drain outlet? Or, do you just see a color change in the lubricant which you interpret as having emulsified water in the oil?
RMS posted 03-22-2015 03:35 PM ET (US)
While not E-TEC specific, I have had instances of water intrusion when using OEM gear case drain plug gaskets. My local Evinrude dealer sells a hard white plastic gasket which does not work well in a Johnson 15-HP I service. The last few years I have been utilizing generic rubber O-ring drain plug gaskets sold at West Marine and experienced superior results. Bob
Whalrman posted 03-22-2015 06:53 PM ET (US)
I have not [had a problem with ingress of water into the gear case of an E-TEC outboard engine]. Have your E-TEC marina change the upper bearing carrier O-ring; it should be brown in colour. Next, change the shift shaft seals, as well as clean salt and sand residue from shift shaft. Check the height and length of the shift shaft, while they are at it. Do a pressure test and VACUUM test on the gear case for the prescribed time for each. Remove the propeller and look at the seal on the propeller shaft for any signs of fishing line or netting that would damage the seal.
jimh posted 03-23-2015 07:29 AM ET (US)
For more details about the change in the O-ring mentioned above, see
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/ETEC_ModelYearChanges. html#MY2010
The change occurred in the model year 2010. Whether or not the new style O-ring will be present in a model year 2009 engine is hard to say.
seahorse posted 03-23-2015 07:39 AM ET (US)
Ducktown mentions that his dealer does a pressure test. Did the dealer also do a vacuum test per the service manual?
Because you say that water gets in to the gearcase, you make no mention of an external leak, so water is likely drawn into the gear oil. That is why the vacuum test is often more important than the pressure test.
The upper driveshaft seals may do their job and hold pressure and vacuum while the motor is not running. In operation, the two-piece driveshaft whips around and could allow water past the seals if they are worn.
Ask the dealer to replace all the seals and O-rings for you or at least the twp driveshaft seals and the driveshaft bearing carrier O-ring. The upper thrust bearing and shims should also be inspected as they are above the oil level and rust when water gets in.
The shift shaft seal area that wipes along the O-ring on top of the shift cover must be inspected closely for nicks, pitting, wear, or corrosion as that can also hold pressure and vacuum but allow leakage when shifting.
DeeVee posted 03-24-2015 09:23 PM ET (US)
Just curious, how did you ascertain that the water was salt water? I ask because I understand that a certain amount of condensation is possible, though not in large amounts.
Doug Vazquez

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Author	Topic: Water in E-TEC Gear Case
Ducktown	posted 03-22-2015 08:15 AM ET (US) I have 1987 Whaler Montauk with a 2009 E-TEC 90-HP, both bought used five years ago. At the end of every season, I drain the gear case, and every year find that saltwater has contaminated the gear case lubricant. I replace with clean lubricant before winterizing the motor. Each spring I ask my authorized E-TEC marina to determine what is causing the problem. One year I was told it was an old filler screw gasket. Another year, the propeller shaft gasket. Last year they did a pressure check with no negative results. Still, every fall, including again last year, the gear case lubricant is contaminated. At the a boat show this February I asked a number of experts what the problem might be. One place suggested the propeller shaft might be ever so slightly bent. The folks at the Evinrude booth said that was unlikely and to just have my marina do a complete re-seal of the lower unit, which I am planning to do. Have others experienced this with an E-TEC? Does anyone know whether the re-sealing will solve this problem?
jimh	posted 03-22-2015 08:20 AM ET (US) [Moved to REPAIRS/MODS]
jimh	posted 03-22-2015 08:27 AM ET (US) quote: Have others experienced [chronic problems with intrusion of water into the gear case] with an E-TEC? I have not. As far as I know, there are thousands and thousands of E-TEC engines with gear cases that do not chronically have ingress of seawater into their lubrication, so the problem you are experiencing is atypical. However, it is a common problem with any outboard engine gear case. quote: Does anyone know whether the re-sealing will solve this problem? Replacement of the propeller shaft seals and other seals on the gear case would seem to be the best approach to resolving the problem. It is odd that a pressure test of the gear case does not detect any leak. Ingress of seawater into the gear case from poor sealing at the filler and vent holes is common, and is usually caused by re-use of the sealing washers. The gear case generally has three shafts which must be sealed: --the propeller shaft --the drive shaft --the shift shaft And the gear case usually has two inlets for adding lubricant or venting. This makes a total of five location where water could enter the gear case.
Ducktown	posted 03-22-2015 08:45 AM ET (US) Jim--thanks for the quick response.--Ducktown
jimh	posted 03-22-2015 11:48 AM ET (US) It occurs to me that perhaps the problem is in the determination of contamination of the lubricant. Could you explain how you determined that the gear case lubricant was contaminated with saltwater? Most modern gear case lubricants have additives that will keep any water in them in an emulsion. Do you actually have just water coming out of the gear case drain outlet? Or, do you just see a color change in the lubricant which you interpret as having emulsified water in the oil?
RMS	posted 03-22-2015 03:35 PM ET (US) While not E-TEC specific, I have had instances of water intrusion when using OEM gear case drain plug gaskets. My local Evinrude dealer sells a hard white plastic gasket which does not work well in a Johnson 15-HP I service. The last few years I have been utilizing generic rubber O-ring drain plug gaskets sold at West Marine and experienced superior results. Bob
Whalrman	posted 03-22-2015 06:53 PM ET (US) I have not [had a problem with ingress of water into the gear case of an E-TEC outboard engine]. Have your E-TEC marina change the upper bearing carrier O-ring; it should be brown in colour. Next, change the shift shaft seals, as well as clean salt and sand residue from shift shaft. Check the height and length of the shift shaft, while they are at it. Do a pressure test and VACUUM test on the gear case for the prescribed time for each. Remove the propeller and look at the seal on the propeller shaft for any signs of fishing line or netting that would damage the seal.
jimh	posted 03-23-2015 07:29 AM ET (US) For more details about the change in the O-ring mentioned above, see http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/ETEC_ModelYearChanges. html#MY2010 The change occurred in the model year 2010. Whether or not the new style O-ring will be present in a model year 2009 engine is hard to say.
seahorse	posted 03-23-2015 07:39 AM ET (US) Ducktown mentions that his dealer does a pressure test. Did the dealer also do a vacuum test per the service manual? Because you say that water gets in to the gearcase, you make no mention of an external leak, so water is likely drawn into the gear oil. That is why the vacuum test is often more important than the pressure test. The upper driveshaft seals may do their job and hold pressure and vacuum while the motor is not running. In operation, the two-piece driveshaft whips around and could allow water past the seals if they are worn. Ask the dealer to replace all the seals and O-rings for you or at least the twp driveshaft seals and the driveshaft bearing carrier O-ring. The upper thrust bearing and shims should also be inspected as they are above the oil level and rust when water gets in. The shift shaft seal area that wipes along the O-ring on top of the shift cover must be inspected closely for nicks, pitting, wear, or corrosion as that can also hold pressure and vacuum but allow leakage when shifting.
DeeVee	posted 03-24-2015 09:23 PM ET (US) Just curious, how did you ascertain that the water was salt water? I ask because I understand that a certain amount of condensation is possible, though not in large amounts. Doug Vazquez