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Author Topic:   1988 REVENGE 20 W-T Water in Cabin Sump

floater88 posted 07-03-2015 08:12 AM ET (US)
On my 1988 Revenge 20 W-T I seem to get lots of water in the cuddy. After a rain storm I look in the cuddy and there is nothing there. After I trailer the boat, though, the cuddy has about a half-foot to one foot of water in it. The mooring cover I have definitely leaks, but all the water is usually in the bilge or on the rear deck. Where could this water be gathering and then flooding into the cuddy when I move the boat? Front anchor locker is dry and I've re-caulked all around it with 100% silicone sealant. There is some water marks on the bottom of that interior panel that screws into the front of the cuddy on the anchor locker end but that stain has been there for years. No other signs of water damage. Thanks
jimh posted 07-03-2015 08:28 AM ET (US)
I have the answer. I have seen the same phenomenon. The cabin of my REVENGE would be completely dry when I loaded the boat on its trailer. Then, after towing it on the highway, I'd get home and find water in the sump in the cabin. I believe I have the explanation.
When you are trailering the boat, do you have to go down any long downgrades? If so, then the water is flowing into the cabin at that time. If there is any water in the cockpit sump--and there usually will be--that water can flow forward via the rigging tunnel and end up in the cabin deck sump.
This drove me crazy for years, until I realized that on the way home from most of my usual launching sites I was descending a long steep grade at some point in the travel. (There is a long descent on the highway south of Traverse City as you approach the village of Mesick; there is a very steep descent into the town of Wiarton as you drive home from Tobermory. We were always transiting these steep downgrades in our travels with the boat.)
Next time you haul out the boat, make sure you completely drain all the water from the cockpit sump. You shouldn't find any water in the cabin later.
floater88 posted 07-03-2015 10:24 AM ET (US)
Thanks Jimh. I empty the deck sump in the aft starboard side before I trailer the boat. How is the rigging tunnel connected to the cabin? I only have that little sump at the foot of the steps and there is no holes in there except for the drain tube that is stoppered. I go down one small hill on the way to the docks. Thanks
jimh posted 07-03-2015 11:39 AM ET (US)

View of rigging tunnels in Boston Whaler 22-foot hull
Photo credit: Jeff Rohlfing
You can see in the above photograph the path of the rigging tunnels. The tunnels lead directly into the cabin of a REVENGE boat. Water rushes forward from the aft cockpit sump area, is carried along these tunnels, and exits into the cabin area when the boat is placed in a steep bow-down trim as occurs when the boat is on a trailer and the trailer is descending a steep downhill grade.
On a REVENGE boat, the hull differs from the one seen above. In the area forward of the fuel tank, where in this view one can see the mold sprue for the foam filling, the original hull is cut away to create a step down into the cabin. That area could also be a pathway for water to enter into the cabin.
jimh posted 07-03-2015 11:45 AM ET (US)
For more views of the surface of the liner of the Unibond hull of a Boston Whaler 22-foot boat, see the original article in which the above illustration appeared. There are many more views.
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/outrageRestore.html
floater88 posted 07-03-2015 11:51 AM ET (US)
Thanks for that pic and info. My driveway slopes down a bit so the bow of the boat is a little lower then the stern. After a rainfall I will start raising the front as far it will go and trigger the bilge pump to try and drain the whole system. Thanks for your help.
jimh posted 07-03-2015 11:53 AM ET (US)
My theory does not work for you if your path to the home from the launching ramp is uphill, which is what I infer from your comment:

quote:
I go down one small hill on the way to the docks.
Water flows into the cabin when you go downhill on the way from the ramp to your house.
I propose a test for my theory, using this procedure:
--after hauling the boat from freshwater and loading on the trailer, rinse down the entire cockpit and cabin area with freshwater;
--evacuate all water from all sump compartments, and dry them;
--prepare about one gallon of freshwater, to which you will add salt so that the taste of the water is clearly salty;
--add this gallon of water to the aft sump compartment on the starboard side of the deck;
--towing the boat on its trailer, drive down a steep downhill grade so that the bow of the boat is clearly lower than the transom;
--if water appears in the cockpit sump, taste the water;
--if the water is salty, it probably came from the aft cockpit sump.
floater88 posted 07-03-2015 12:33 PM ET (US)
I am hesitant to taste any water coming into the cuddy because everytime it's been an awfull brownish looking colour. I'm going to park it with the bow up before the next rain storm. I will drain the bilge sump and hopefuly any water in the rigging tunnels will have run into the bilge. When I lower the bow I will be sitting inside the cuddy to see if any water comes in. I have to take a look at the steps to see if any water is coming in from under the lip of the top step if it's joined there some how. Thanks for all your help.
floater88 posted 07-03-2015 01:06 PM ET (US)
Sorry forgot to mention that the route to the dock does have one small hill where the bow is lower then the stern for about 1 minute.
andygere posted 07-03-2015 06:13 PM ET (US)
Pull the plugs in your stern sumps before you tow. Any water in the tunnels will drain out on the first up hill climb. Store your boat in the driveway with the plugs out as well. If your Cuddy sump has a drain plug, pull that one out as well.
jimh posted 07-04-2015 07:28 AM ET (US)

quote:
I am hesitant to taste any water coming into the cuddy because everytime it's been an awfull brownish looking colour.
The water could be tinted brown from two causes:
--you have a lot of dirt in the rigging tunnels, and the water picks up the dirt as it flows into the cabin sump; or,
--old, uncured resin from the interior of the Unibond hull is leaking out and being mixed with the water. I have seen rather nasty-looking brown goo come out of a small fastener hole in the Unbond hull of Boston Whaler boats of your boat's age, even though the hull otherwise appeared to be in the absolute most perfect condition.
Of the two possible causes I propose, the first one is more likely, in my opinion. When I first got my present Boston Whaler boat, there was dried dirt in the rigging tunnel. I have been trying to flush it all out for the past ten years, and I have managed to get most of it out.
Jeff posted 07-04-2015 11:52 AM ET (US)
I have a theory. The water is flowing out from your fuel tank cavity, between the fuel tank cover / deck sole and the hull and into the low cabin areas.
On my 22 Outrage when the fuel tank cavity was full of water, from rain or leaving the plug out of the rigging tunnel, the water would run from the cavity and into my aft forward locker under heavy braking and when on a down hill grade.
floater88 posted 07-04-2015 04:39 PM ET (US)
I pulled my deck covers off and the top of the tank and along the fuel hoses is wet or holding water. I drain the aft bilge right after it rains because I know the travel cover leaks. I'm just not sure how it all flows into the cuddy. I took a look at the steps where the floor joins the tops of the step and the caulking there is in good shape and pliable with no holes. There is no evidence that the water is coming into the cuddy from the deck and over the sill as it's always clean and dry.
jimh posted 07-05-2015 01:37 PM ET (US)
I have never thought nor have I suggested that water flows on the surface of the cockpit deck, over the raised board between the cockpit and the first step, over the sill of the cabin, and into the cabin deck and sump. So I completely agree with your assumption that the water is not entering the cabin by that way.
In my earlier reply I described how water can flow into the cabin via the forward ends of the rigging tunnels. That description describes how I think water flows into the cabin. Jeff's comment that water could also flow out of the fuel tank cavity where it was sitting on top of the fuel tank and into the cabin is also a good suggestion. The fuel tank cavity can overflow into the rigging tunnels, as you can see in the photographic illustration above.
If there is any water in the boat, and the boat becomes oriented with the bow much lower than the transom, as happens on steep downhill grades, the water is going to flow forward and find a way toward the bow. The cabin sump is one of the deepest parts of the boat, so once the water flows into that sump it will not be able to escape. That is why you find it there when you get back home from hauling the boat on the trailer on the highway on downhill grades.
floater88 posted 07-05-2015 04:52 PM ET (US)
Unless those rigging tunnels end just under the stairs and under that cabinet under the steering I really can't see how the water sloshes forward into my cuddy. I'm going to remove the two pouches in the cabin that cover up those spaces and have someone else drive the boat to the dock and I will sit in the cuddy and watch to see what happens. Thanks for all the replies.
andygere posted 07-06-2015 12:58 PM ET (US)
On my 1989 Outrage 22 Cuddy, the rigging tunnel extends into the very aft section of the cuddy. On my model, the cabin is shorter than a Revenge, so the cuddy sump is aft of the companionway. There is a pocket beneath the deck that houses the porta potty, and the tunnel extension is on the starboard side of this little below deck pocket. The discharge hose from the factory installed sump pump goes through this tunnel, and the pump discharges via a through hull fitting on the side of the boat. Water from the stern sumps can and does travel forward to the cuddy if the bow of the boat is angled steeply enough. I frequently run the boat with both stern sumps unplugged, but have never had a problem with water in the cabin from that. Towing down a steep hill when the plugs were left in (and the sumps not pumped dry) has put water in the cabin.
Jeff posted 07-06-2015 01:33 PM ET (US)
Yes,
The water never makes it on deck. It flows between the bottom of the floor and over the forward fuel tank cavity bulkhead.
I was having the same water show up in my 22 Outrages locker. I only figured out where it was coming from by witnessing the water migrating this way while parked on a down slopped grade.
See the illustration
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Misc%20Whaler/ unnamed_zpsdx3kylgs.jpg
floater88 posted 07-06-2015 01:41 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the drawing. Not sure how it enters the cuddy as the caulking is in great shape with no holes. I'm going to be removing the floor cover again soon and will clean up all that gunk under there and make it look nice. I will checks for any cracked or missing caulking at that time.
fno posted 07-06-2015 11:43 PM ET (US)
Floater, take a ride in th boat after the boat ramp. You will find where the water is coming from....

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Author	Topic: 1988 REVENGE 20 W-T Water in Cabin Sump
floater88	posted 07-03-2015 08:12 AM ET (US) On my 1988 Revenge 20 W-T I seem to get lots of water in the cuddy. After a rain storm I look in the cuddy and there is nothing there. After I trailer the boat, though, the cuddy has about a half-foot to one foot of water in it. The mooring cover I have definitely leaks, but all the water is usually in the bilge or on the rear deck. Where could this water be gathering and then flooding into the cuddy when I move the boat? Front anchor locker is dry and I've re-caulked all around it with 100% silicone sealant. There is some water marks on the bottom of that interior panel that screws into the front of the cuddy on the anchor locker end but that stain has been there for years. No other signs of water damage. Thanks
jimh	posted 07-03-2015 08:28 AM ET (US) I have the answer. I have seen the same phenomenon. The cabin of my REVENGE would be completely dry when I loaded the boat on its trailer. Then, after towing it on the highway, I'd get home and find water in the sump in the cabin. I believe I have the explanation. When you are trailering the boat, do you have to go down any long downgrades? If so, then the water is flowing into the cabin at that time. If there is any water in the cockpit sump--and there usually will be--that water can flow forward via the rigging tunnel and end up in the cabin deck sump. This drove me crazy for years, until I realized that on the way home from most of my usual launching sites I was descending a long steep grade at some point in the travel. (There is a long descent on the highway south of Traverse City as you approach the village of Mesick; there is a very steep descent into the town of Wiarton as you drive home from Tobermory. We were always transiting these steep downgrades in our travels with the boat.) Next time you haul out the boat, make sure you completely drain all the water from the cockpit sump. You shouldn't find any water in the cabin later.
floater88	posted 07-03-2015 10:24 AM ET (US) Thanks Jimh. I empty the deck sump in the aft starboard side before I trailer the boat. How is the rigging tunnel connected to the cabin? I only have that little sump at the foot of the steps and there is no holes in there except for the drain tube that is stoppered. I go down one small hill on the way to the docks. Thanks
jimh	posted 07-03-2015 11:39 AM ET (US) View of rigging tunnels in Boston Whaler 22-foot hull Photo credit: Jeff Rohlfing You can see in the above photograph the path of the rigging tunnels. The tunnels lead directly into the cabin of a REVENGE boat. Water rushes forward from the aft cockpit sump area, is carried along these tunnels, and exits into the cabin area when the boat is placed in a steep bow-down trim as occurs when the boat is on a trailer and the trailer is descending a steep downhill grade. On a REVENGE boat, the hull differs from the one seen above. In the area forward of the fuel tank, where in this view one can see the mold sprue for the foam filling, the original hull is cut away to create a step down into the cabin. That area could also be a pathway for water to enter into the cabin.
jimh	posted 07-03-2015 11:45 AM ET (US) For more views of the surface of the liner of the Unibond hull of a Boston Whaler 22-foot boat, see the original article in which the above illustration appeared. There are many more views. http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/outrageRestore.html
floater88	posted 07-03-2015 11:51 AM ET (US) Thanks for that pic and info. My driveway slopes down a bit so the bow of the boat is a little lower then the stern. After a rainfall I will start raising the front as far it will go and trigger the bilge pump to try and drain the whole system. Thanks for your help.
jimh	posted 07-03-2015 11:53 AM ET (US) My theory does not work for you if your path to the home from the launching ramp is uphill, which is what I infer from your comment: quote: I go down one small hill on the way to the docks. Water flows into the cabin when you go downhill on the way from the ramp to your house. I propose a test for my theory, using this procedure: --after hauling the boat from freshwater and loading on the trailer, rinse down the entire cockpit and cabin area with freshwater; --evacuate all water from all sump compartments, and dry them; --prepare about one gallon of freshwater, to which you will add salt so that the taste of the water is clearly salty; --add this gallon of water to the aft sump compartment on the starboard side of the deck; --towing the boat on its trailer, drive down a steep downhill grade so that the bow of the boat is clearly lower than the transom; --if water appears in the cockpit sump, taste the water; --if the water is salty, it probably came from the aft cockpit sump.
floater88	posted 07-03-2015 12:33 PM ET (US) I am hesitant to taste any water coming into the cuddy because everytime it's been an awfull brownish looking colour. I'm going to park it with the bow up before the next rain storm. I will drain the bilge sump and hopefuly any water in the rigging tunnels will have run into the bilge. When I lower the bow I will be sitting inside the cuddy to see if any water comes in. I have to take a look at the steps to see if any water is coming in from under the lip of the top step if it's joined there some how. Thanks for all your help.
floater88	posted 07-03-2015 01:06 PM ET (US) Sorry forgot to mention that the route to the dock does have one small hill where the bow is lower then the stern for about 1 minute.
andygere	posted 07-03-2015 06:13 PM ET (US) Pull the plugs in your stern sumps before you tow. Any water in the tunnels will drain out on the first up hill climb. Store your boat in the driveway with the plugs out as well. If your Cuddy sump has a drain plug, pull that one out as well.
jimh	posted 07-04-2015 07:28 AM ET (US) quote: I am hesitant to taste any water coming into the cuddy because everytime it's been an awfull brownish looking colour. The water could be tinted brown from two causes: --you have a lot of dirt in the rigging tunnels, and the water picks up the dirt as it flows into the cabin sump; or, --old, uncured resin from the interior of the Unibond hull is leaking out and being mixed with the water. I have seen rather nasty-looking brown goo come out of a small fastener hole in the Unbond hull of Boston Whaler boats of your boat's age, even though the hull otherwise appeared to be in the absolute most perfect condition. Of the two possible causes I propose, the first one is more likely, in my opinion. When I first got my present Boston Whaler boat, there was dried dirt in the rigging tunnel. I have been trying to flush it all out for the past ten years, and I have managed to get most of it out.
Jeff	posted 07-04-2015 11:52 AM ET (US) I have a theory. The water is flowing out from your fuel tank cavity, between the fuel tank cover / deck sole and the hull and into the low cabin areas. On my 22 Outrage when the fuel tank cavity was full of water, from rain or leaving the plug out of the rigging tunnel, the water would run from the cavity and into my aft forward locker under heavy braking and when on a down hill grade.
floater88	posted 07-04-2015 04:39 PM ET (US) I pulled my deck covers off and the top of the tank and along the fuel hoses is wet or holding water. I drain the aft bilge right after it rains because I know the travel cover leaks. I'm just not sure how it all flows into the cuddy. I took a look at the steps where the floor joins the tops of the step and the caulking there is in good shape and pliable with no holes. There is no evidence that the water is coming into the cuddy from the deck and over the sill as it's always clean and dry.
jimh	posted 07-05-2015 01:37 PM ET (US) I have never thought nor have I suggested that water flows on the surface of the cockpit deck, over the raised board between the cockpit and the first step, over the sill of the cabin, and into the cabin deck and sump. So I completely agree with your assumption that the water is not entering the cabin by that way. In my earlier reply I described how water can flow into the cabin via the forward ends of the rigging tunnels. That description describes how I think water flows into the cabin. Jeff's comment that water could also flow out of the fuel tank cavity where it was sitting on top of the fuel tank and into the cabin is also a good suggestion. The fuel tank cavity can overflow into the rigging tunnels, as you can see in the photographic illustration above. If there is any water in the boat, and the boat becomes oriented with the bow much lower than the transom, as happens on steep downhill grades, the water is going to flow forward and find a way toward the bow. The cabin sump is one of the deepest parts of the boat, so once the water flows into that sump it will not be able to escape. That is why you find it there when you get back home from hauling the boat on the trailer on the highway on downhill grades.
floater88	posted 07-05-2015 04:52 PM ET (US) Unless those rigging tunnels end just under the stairs and under that cabinet under the steering I really can't see how the water sloshes forward into my cuddy. I'm going to remove the two pouches in the cabin that cover up those spaces and have someone else drive the boat to the dock and I will sit in the cuddy and watch to see what happens. Thanks for all the replies.
andygere	posted 07-06-2015 12:58 PM ET (US) On my 1989 Outrage 22 Cuddy, the rigging tunnel extends into the very aft section of the cuddy. On my model, the cabin is shorter than a Revenge, so the cuddy sump is aft of the companionway. There is a pocket beneath the deck that houses the porta potty, and the tunnel extension is on the starboard side of this little below deck pocket. The discharge hose from the factory installed sump pump goes through this tunnel, and the pump discharges via a through hull fitting on the side of the boat. Water from the stern sumps can and does travel forward to the cuddy if the bow of the boat is angled steeply enough. I frequently run the boat with both stern sumps unplugged, but have never had a problem with water in the cabin from that. Towing down a steep hill when the plugs were left in (and the sumps not pumped dry) has put water in the cabin.
Jeff	posted 07-06-2015 01:33 PM ET (US) Yes, The water never makes it on deck. It flows between the bottom of the floor and over the forward fuel tank cavity bulkhead. I was having the same water show up in my 22 Outrages locker. I only figured out where it was coming from by witnessing the water migrating this way while parked on a down slopped grade. See the illustration http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Misc%20Whaler/ unnamed_zpsdx3kylgs.jpg
floater88	posted 07-06-2015 01:41 PM ET (US) Thanks for the drawing. Not sure how it enters the cuddy as the caulking is in great shape with no holes. I'm going to be removing the floor cover again soon and will clean up all that gunk under there and make it look nice. I will checks for any cracked or missing caulking at that time.
fno	posted 07-06-2015 11:43 PM ET (US) Floater, take a ride in th boat after the boat ramp. You will find where the water is coming from....