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Author Topic:   c.2007 Yamaha F225 Runs Out of Fuel

paulkath posted 07-08-2015 11:13 AM ET (US)
I have a Boston Whaler Dauntless 20 with a Merc 225 (A fantastic combo). This question is not about that boat.
My dad has a Grady White 223 with a Yamaha 225. This motor has been nothing but trouble. It seems that air gets into the internal fuel filter through various means and relieves the engine from needed fuel pressure. This has been a long, onging problem. Numerous mechanics have failed to fix the problem. Weirdly the breakdown occurs after an 8 mile trip and a lunch break. After starting, then idling out of the marina, the engine looses gas and stalls.
Has anyone seen this problem? Is it fixable?
We are at the breaking point and may sell the boat or re-power with an ETec.
Thanks
martyn1075 posted 07-08-2015 11:31 AM ET (US)
What year is the Yamaha 225? Is it a two stroke or a four stroke. What kind of maintenance schedule is performed at what intervals?
tedious posted 07-08-2015 01:02 PM ET (US)
Paul, can you give more of the history? Clearly knowing the year and type of motor will help. You also state that air gets into the filter by various means - that sounds like more than one problem has been diagnosed, and presumably fixed, already?
If this is the 3.3L 4-stroke, there's nothing upstream of the primary fuel filter except some tubing and then the boat's own fuel system. Have you tried running the motor from a portable tank and see if that fixes it?
paulkath posted 07-09-2015 07:24 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the replies. The engine is 8 years old, a four stroke. I was hoping to hear that many others have had this problem and its an easy fix.
This engine has had all the expensive maintenence and has been "repaired" several times. We have switched mechanics. The problem still happens.
I did notice some gas on the fuel line at the priming bulb.
The boat is in a shop now. The way its going, the boat is un-usable as we can not trust it out on the bay. We needed an $800 tow on the night of the fifth.
seahorse posted 07-09-2015 09:15 AM ET (US)
Running out of fuel at idle is a fairly common problem with the F200-225-250 series motors. I'm surprised that the mechanics did not look for the likely culprits.
The lift pump only runs intermittently at low speeds, not continuously. When it is idle, the fuel level in the lines can drop back below the inlet fitting of the on-engine fuel filter. This is easily seen if a clear fuel line is temporarily installed. When the pump restarts, it takes a moment to pull the fuel back up and that means less fuel is delivered each time. Eventually this results in a lack of fuel to keep the motor running, and it stalls or surges.
Often this is due to a missing or stuck-open anti-siphon valve. The AS valve keeps the fuel in the hose from falling back.
A faulty check valve in the lift pump by-pass circuit will also result in similar symptoms.
seahorse posted 07-09-2015 09:18 AM ET (US)
I did notice some gas on the fuel line at the priming bulb.

If fuel is leaking out at the bulb or hose, that means that air can get into the lines and can result in the engine not receiving enough fuel to keep running at low speeds with the intermittent lift pump operation.
tedious posted 07-09-2015 09:20 AM ET (US)
Paul, if gas is getting out of the fuel line, then air is almost certainly getting in. I'd replace all the fuel line from the tank to the motor, including the primer bulb.
Also, sign up for a tow service - about $160 per year for me and it's worth it in peace of mind.
Tim
paulkath posted 07-09-2015 01:00 PM ET (US)
Thank you all for the sage advise. We will pass this all along to the mechanic. I think all the fuel lines will be replaced.
Regarding tow insurance: This is an oft discussed topic. On my Whaler with the Optimax, I have broken down one time in 12 years and was able to limp home anyway. Saving the $160 for 12 years seems like a good investment. For me the peace of mind comes from a high limit on my Visa card, With my dad's boat and the Yamaha we should have a tow vessel nearby at all times.
jimh posted 07-10-2015 10:01 AM ET (US)
It sounds like there should be three check valves that prevent fuel from draining back to the fuel tank when the fuel lift pump suction is removed:
--the check valve in the engine fuel system
--the check valve in the fuel line primer bulb
--the check valve in the fuel tank pick-up tube fitting
onokai posted 07-16-2015 02:30 AM ET (US)
I suggest you check your low pressure fuel pump and clean your VST tank and filters. They are past the filter you see under the cowling. The one-way checkvalve is also a maybe; it is next to the low-pressure fuel pump. If you smell fuel you have a leak. Find it and repair. Air can also cause this. A leak should be easy to run down. Make sure you have a 10-micron, large, spin-on fuel filter for water separation in the system just past the tank supply before the outboard. Any good Yamaha service place can get to these [problems]. Mark

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Author	Topic: c.2007 Yamaha F225 Runs Out of Fuel
paulkath	posted 07-08-2015 11:13 AM ET (US) I have a Boston Whaler Dauntless 20 with a Merc 225 (A fantastic combo). This question is not about that boat. My dad has a Grady White 223 with a Yamaha 225. This motor has been nothing but trouble. It seems that air gets into the internal fuel filter through various means and relieves the engine from needed fuel pressure. This has been a long, onging problem. Numerous mechanics have failed to fix the problem. Weirdly the breakdown occurs after an 8 mile trip and a lunch break. After starting, then idling out of the marina, the engine looses gas and stalls. Has anyone seen this problem? Is it fixable? We are at the breaking point and may sell the boat or re-power with an ETec. Thanks
martyn1075	posted 07-08-2015 11:31 AM ET (US) What year is the Yamaha 225? Is it a two stroke or a four stroke. What kind of maintenance schedule is performed at what intervals?
tedious	posted 07-08-2015 01:02 PM ET (US) Paul, can you give more of the history? Clearly knowing the year and type of motor will help. You also state that air gets into the filter by various means - that sounds like more than one problem has been diagnosed, and presumably fixed, already? If this is the 3.3L 4-stroke, there's nothing upstream of the primary fuel filter except some tubing and then the boat's own fuel system. Have you tried running the motor from a portable tank and see if that fixes it?
paulkath	posted 07-09-2015 07:24 AM ET (US) Thanks for the replies. The engine is 8 years old, a four stroke. I was hoping to hear that many others have had this problem and its an easy fix. This engine has had all the expensive maintenence and has been "repaired" several times. We have switched mechanics. The problem still happens. I did notice some gas on the fuel line at the priming bulb. The boat is in a shop now. The way its going, the boat is un-usable as we can not trust it out on the bay. We needed an $800 tow on the night of the fifth.
seahorse	posted 07-09-2015 09:15 AM ET (US) Running out of fuel at idle is a fairly common problem with the F200-225-250 series motors. I'm surprised that the mechanics did not look for the likely culprits. The lift pump only runs intermittently at low speeds, not continuously. When it is idle, the fuel level in the lines can drop back below the inlet fitting of the on-engine fuel filter. This is easily seen if a clear fuel line is temporarily installed. When the pump restarts, it takes a moment to pull the fuel back up and that means less fuel is delivered each time. Eventually this results in a lack of fuel to keep the motor running, and it stalls or surges. Often this is due to a missing or stuck-open anti-siphon valve. The AS valve keeps the fuel in the hose from falling back. A faulty check valve in the lift pump by-pass circuit will also result in similar symptoms.
seahorse	posted 07-09-2015 09:18 AM ET (US) I did notice some gas on the fuel line at the priming bulb. If fuel is leaking out at the bulb or hose, that means that air can get into the lines and can result in the engine not receiving enough fuel to keep running at low speeds with the intermittent lift pump operation.
tedious	posted 07-09-2015 09:20 AM ET (US) Paul, if gas is getting out of the fuel line, then air is almost certainly getting in. I'd replace all the fuel line from the tank to the motor, including the primer bulb. Also, sign up for a tow service - about $160 per year for me and it's worth it in peace of mind. Tim
paulkath	posted 07-09-2015 01:00 PM ET (US) Thank you all for the sage advise. We will pass this all along to the mechanic. I think all the fuel lines will be replaced. Regarding tow insurance: This is an oft discussed topic. On my Whaler with the Optimax, I have broken down one time in 12 years and was able to limp home anyway. Saving the $160 for 12 years seems like a good investment. For me the peace of mind comes from a high limit on my Visa card, With my dad's boat and the Yamaha we should have a tow vessel nearby at all times.
jimh	posted 07-10-2015 10:01 AM ET (US) It sounds like there should be three check valves that prevent fuel from draining back to the fuel tank when the fuel lift pump suction is removed: --the check valve in the engine fuel system --the check valve in the fuel line primer bulb --the check valve in the fuel tank pick-up tube fitting
onokai	posted 07-16-2015 02:30 AM ET (US) I suggest you check your low pressure fuel pump and clean your VST tank and filters. They are past the filter you see under the cowling. The one-way checkvalve is also a maybe; it is next to the low-pressure fuel pump. If you smell fuel you have a leak. Find it and repair. Air can also cause this. A leak should be easy to run down. Make sure you have a 10-micron, large, spin-on fuel filter for water separation in the system just past the tank supply before the outboard. Any good Yamaha service place can get to these [problems]. Mark