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Author Topic:   18.5 Outrage (1985) Repowering

Fred Garner posted 08-30-2001 09:56 AM ET (US)
I'm planning on repowering my 1985 Outrage (Guardian Version)this fall. So far, I've been qouted around $10,000, with trade for my old 1989 Evinrude, for a new 2000 Yamaha 150 OX66 V Max. Are there any other alternatives I should consider?
Peter posted 08-30-2001 10:41 AM ET (US)
Yamahas are very reliable and the OX66 EFI is quite good on fuel, although not as good as an HPDI. As a cheaper alternative, you might consider a Johnson 150 which is carburated or a carburated Yamaha 150. I think you need a 25 inch shaft for your Guardian and I'm not sure whether the V Max comes in a 25 inch shaft length since it is intended for bass boats. The catalog does not state 25 inch as an option. You might want to double check.
lhg posted 08-30-2001 09:50 PM ET (US)
Mercury carbureated Saltwater 150 HP Extra long is $6861., 2001 model
Same engine in EFI is $8527. They sure aren't giving you much in trade for the Evinrude if the Yam EFI is $10,000 w/trade!
Is a Yamaha 150 EFI worth 25% more than the same Merc? I doubt it. But they could be equals, except for top speed.
Same 150 HP engine in Optimax is $10128.
Above Merc prices are without trade in. As we have said before, outboard trade-in values are nil. Try and sell it outright.
1987GTX posted 08-30-2001 10:47 PM ET (US)

i'm not familiar with the motory you're looking at/have ID'd, but depending on where you live you may want to consider a 4stroke... here in CA, a 2 stroke is all but useless on freshwater areas (like lake tahoe, many resevoirs, etc).
i've just repowered my 87 outrage hull with a 140 honda... pricey but wonderful and the power only (seems) a bit less than the 150Yam i had on it.
i used to have a 17guardian dive boat - yours a similar configuration?
hal
Fred Garner posted 08-31-2001 06:41 AM ET (US)
The 18.5 Guardian is the same as an Outrage, except it's very utilitarian, with no teak, heavy side rails, heavy rub rails, fixed bench helm seat and it's grey. It looks like something your local game warden would drive.
Re: Yamaha 150 OX66 V Max, one dealer has quoted $10,700 for a 2002 engine, plus an additional $2,100 for cables,new top end instruments, speedo, installation, etc. The outrage does require a 25" shaft. Is HPDI the same as FICHT? <Ihg>, you say that the same engine in EFI is $8527, and that the Optimax is $10,128. Does Merc have both? Sorry, I'm still at the bottom of the learning corve. Really, what I need most is reliability and fuel efficiency. I keep my boat on a lift out here on Green Bay, and due to low lake water levels, the nearest place to fuel up is 20 miles away. The Outrage/Guardian with the big fuel tank is perfect, and with a fuel efficient engine I'd extend my cruising range considerably.
gf posted 08-31-2001 12:35 PM ET (US)

That engine should be about $9000 plus controls, guages and rigging. $2100 for all of that is pure crap.
The comparable Mercury 150 EFI is every bit as good an engine and probably available at a wider range of dealerships for a much more competitive price.
If you want to compare the Mercury 150 Optimax versus the Yamaha 150 HPDI, those engines should be around $10,500.
george nagy posted 08-31-2001 12:43 PM ET (US)
I'm in the same boat, litterally!
i have an 87 18' with an 87 150 evinrude. The motor is still running but I fear it is getting close to some expensive repairs/ maintenance (mostly corrosion related) I battled the decision and am currently faced with finding the best price on a 150 carburated johnson oceanpro. I just can't see spending more than $7k when everything is all said and done. I'm told that controls etc.. will be compatable. I would also like to get some things for the boat such as new gps, depth, freshwater shower, new canvas, etc... so there is more $$$$. I think that my 87 got me this far a new johnson 150 even if it only lasts half as long will get me another 7 years and by then I'll probably want another boat.
I'm somewhat sidetracked about the recent discovery of the suzuki 4 stroke you may want to look into it.
out of curiousity what happened to your motor?
bigz posted 08-31-2001 01:31 PM ET (US)
Gf, best go check out the prices on Yamaha instruments and controllers! For that matter go check out a full set up of Mercury's stuff.
Also, would guess like most places labor is at shop rates these days for rigging (no free lunch), say from a southern low of $50 to a northern high of $65 per hour. To rig out a single engine and the other items associated would estimate on an 18 Outrage 10 hours or maybe a bit more.
Of course LHG does his own rigging and gets his motors (of course he hasn't bought any recently :)) or should say prices from Florida dealers. That's neat but in many cases impractical.
Tom
Bigshot posted 08-31-2001 01:46 PM ET (US)
rigging should be negotiated at time of purchase. Usually $250-400 per engine.
Peter posted 08-31-2001 05:47 PM ET (US)
For my Revenge, I was quoted 8 hours to de-rig the old Johnson and rig a new Yamaha 225. Over 2k for controls, cables, harness and rigging sounds a little high.
You should be able to get about 1k for trade-in on the Evinrude. If there isn't anything wrong with the Evinrude, I'd keep running it. It's an old cross-flow design that dates back to the late '50s, I believe. They use a lot of gas but their pretty simple and reliable if maintained properly.
Fred Garner posted 09-01-2001 11:47 AM ET (US)
Thanks to all of you for your suggestions. I've decided to do a little more homework. I haven't checked out Mercs or Suzuki yet, so I'll keep you posted.
hauptjm posted 09-04-2001 10:45 AM ET (US)
Not that I'm looking now, but just trying to keep up with the times when the old '95 Oceanrunner poops-out, I have just priced a Yamaha for the first time: 150hp Saltwater 2001 engine, all controls and gauges, rigging cost and extended warranty (2 year factory with 3 year extension for total of 5 years), brings the total cost to $10,000.00. Considering the cost of the warranty extension was $1,200.00, it seems the prices you were quoted were inflated. By the way, this quote was over the phone, without any negotiating. One thing you'll really see here at this site is the wide range of pricing from region to region. Here in South Louisiana, there is huge competition from literally thousands of vendors. Florida is even more competitive, just more spread out, geographically. If I remember correctly, lhg buys his motors from an outfit in Southern Florida.
lhg posted 09-04-2001 06:50 PM ET (US)
I know all you non-Mercury fans don't like to face up to Mercury's pretty competitive pricing, but because Merc has made a deal with Bass Pro Shops Outdoor Adventure Worlds, this low pricing is pretty much available anywhere east of the Mississippi. Bass Pro installs and rigs for you, if necessary. Because of this, any Mercury Dealer within a couple of hundred miles of a Bass Pro has to meet or beat these low prices.
If you can find a local marine shop to rig for you, assuming you don't do this simple job by yourself, (the engines come with full step by step instructions) I still say the way to buy an outboard is "out of state" (FL is a good choice) and have it shipped for about $100/engine and no sales tax. Add up the savings, and you'll agree.
Fred, there is a Bass Pro Shop in Gurnee, IL, just across the border on I-94.

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Author	Topic: 18.5 Outrage (1985) Repowering
Fred Garner	posted 08-30-2001 09:56 AM ET (US) I'm planning on repowering my 1985 Outrage (Guardian Version)this fall. So far, I've been qouted around $10,000, with trade for my old 1989 Evinrude, for a new 2000 Yamaha 150 OX66 V Max. Are there any other alternatives I should consider?
Peter	posted 08-30-2001 10:41 AM ET (US) Yamahas are very reliable and the OX66 EFI is quite good on fuel, although not as good as an HPDI. As a cheaper alternative, you might consider a Johnson 150 which is carburated or a carburated Yamaha 150. I think you need a 25 inch shaft for your Guardian and I'm not sure whether the V Max comes in a 25 inch shaft length since it is intended for bass boats. The catalog does not state 25 inch as an option. You might want to double check.
lhg	posted 08-30-2001 09:50 PM ET (US) Mercury carbureated Saltwater 150 HP Extra long is $6861., 2001 model Same engine in EFI is $8527. They sure aren't giving you much in trade for the Evinrude if the Yam EFI is $10,000 w/trade! Is a Yamaha 150 EFI worth 25% more than the same Merc? I doubt it. But they could be equals, except for top speed. Same 150 HP engine in Optimax is $10128. Above Merc prices are without trade in. As we have said before, outboard trade-in values are nil. Try and sell it outright.
1987GTX	posted 08-30-2001 10:47 PM ET (US) i'm not familiar with the motory you're looking at/have ID'd, but depending on where you live you may want to consider a 4stroke... here in CA, a 2 stroke is all but useless on freshwater areas (like lake tahoe, many resevoirs, etc). i've just repowered my 87 outrage hull with a 140 honda... pricey but wonderful and the power only (seems) a bit less than the 150Yam i had on it. i used to have a 17guardian dive boat - yours a similar configuration? hal
Fred Garner	posted 08-31-2001 06:41 AM ET (US) The 18.5 Guardian is the same as an Outrage, except it's very utilitarian, with no teak, heavy side rails, heavy rub rails, fixed bench helm seat and it's grey. It looks like something your local game warden would drive. Re: Yamaha 150 OX66 V Max, one dealer has quoted $10,700 for a 2002 engine, plus an additional $2,100 for cables,new top end instruments, speedo, installation, etc. The outrage does require a 25" shaft. Is HPDI the same as FICHT? <Ihg>, you say that the same engine in EFI is $8527, and that the Optimax is $10,128. Does Merc have both? Sorry, I'm still at the bottom of the learning corve. Really, what I need most is reliability and fuel efficiency. I keep my boat on a lift out here on Green Bay, and due to low lake water levels, the nearest place to fuel up is 20 miles away. The Outrage/Guardian with the big fuel tank is perfect, and with a fuel efficient engine I'd extend my cruising range considerably.
gf	posted 08-31-2001 12:35 PM ET (US) That engine should be about $9000 plus controls, guages and rigging. $2100 for all of that is pure crap. The comparable Mercury 150 EFI is every bit as good an engine and probably available at a wider range of dealerships for a much more competitive price. If you want to compare the Mercury 150 Optimax versus the Yamaha 150 HPDI, those engines should be around $10,500.
george nagy	posted 08-31-2001 12:43 PM ET (US) I'm in the same boat, litterally! i have an 87 18' with an 87 150 evinrude. The motor is still running but I fear it is getting close to some expensive repairs/ maintenance (mostly corrosion related) I battled the decision and am currently faced with finding the best price on a 150 carburated johnson oceanpro. I just can't see spending more than $7k when everything is all said and done. I'm told that controls etc.. will be compatable. I would also like to get some things for the boat such as new gps, depth, freshwater shower, new canvas, etc... so there is more $$$$. I think that my 87 got me this far a new johnson 150 even if it only lasts half as long will get me another 7 years and by then I'll probably want another boat. I'm somewhat sidetracked about the recent discovery of the suzuki 4 stroke you may want to look into it. out of curiousity what happened to your motor?
bigz	posted 08-31-2001 01:31 PM ET (US) Gf, best go check out the prices on Yamaha instruments and controllers! For that matter go check out a full set up of Mercury's stuff. Also, would guess like most places labor is at shop rates these days for rigging (no free lunch), say from a southern low of $50 to a northern high of $65 per hour. To rig out a single engine and the other items associated would estimate on an 18 Outrage 10 hours or maybe a bit more. Of course LHG does his own rigging and gets his motors (of course he hasn't bought any recently :)) or should say prices from Florida dealers. That's neat but in many cases impractical. Tom
Bigshot	posted 08-31-2001 01:46 PM ET (US) rigging should be negotiated at time of purchase. Usually $250-400 per engine.
Peter	posted 08-31-2001 05:47 PM ET (US) For my Revenge, I was quoted 8 hours to de-rig the old Johnson and rig a new Yamaha 225. Over 2k for controls, cables, harness and rigging sounds a little high. You should be able to get about 1k for trade-in on the Evinrude. If there isn't anything wrong with the Evinrude, I'd keep running it. It's an old cross-flow design that dates back to the late '50s, I believe. They use a lot of gas but their pretty simple and reliable if maintained properly.
Fred Garner	posted 09-01-2001 11:47 AM ET (US) Thanks to all of you for your suggestions. I've decided to do a little more homework. I haven't checked out Mercs or Suzuki yet, so I'll keep you posted.
hauptjm	posted 09-04-2001 10:45 AM ET (US) Not that I'm looking now, but just trying to keep up with the times when the old '95 Oceanrunner poops-out, I have just priced a Yamaha for the first time: 150hp Saltwater 2001 engine, all controls and gauges, rigging cost and extended warranty (2 year factory with 3 year extension for total of 5 years), brings the total cost to $10,000.00. Considering the cost of the warranty extension was $1,200.00, it seems the prices you were quoted were inflated. By the way, this quote was over the phone, without any negotiating. One thing you'll really see here at this site is the wide range of pricing from region to region. Here in South Louisiana, there is huge competition from literally thousands of vendors. Florida is even more competitive, just more spread out, geographically. If I remember correctly, lhg buys his motors from an outfit in Southern Florida.
lhg	posted 09-04-2001 06:50 PM ET (US) I know all you non-Mercury fans don't like to face up to Mercury's pretty competitive pricing, but because Merc has made a deal with Bass Pro Shops Outdoor Adventure Worlds, this low pricing is pretty much available anywhere east of the Mississippi. Bass Pro installs and rigs for you, if necessary. Because of this, any Mercury Dealer within a couple of hundred miles of a Bass Pro has to meet or beat these low prices. If you can find a local marine shop to rig for you, assuming you don't do this simple job by yourself, (the engines come with full step by step instructions) I still say the way to buy an outboard is "out of state" (FL is a good choice) and have it shipped for about $100/engine and no sales tax. Add up the savings, and you'll agree. Fred, there is a Bass Pro Shop in Gurnee, IL, just across the border on I-94.