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Author Topic:   What Engine?
SoShFly posted 12-17-2001 02:18 PM ET (US)   Profile for SoShFly   Send Email to SoShFly  
I just picked up a 1970 Katama in great shape and need to repower it. The listed HP max is 100. It will be used solely inshore New England salt water. I am more concerned with relaibiliy and long wear than power or speed. Any thoughts on what brand/model engine to look into? Min. and max. HP? Thanks.
lhg posted 12-17-2001 03:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
I'd say 75 and up, otherwise you'll be running along at 30-32MPH with an engine turning 5000+ rpms. If that doesn't bother you, both in terms of increased engine wear and noise, than a 50 or 60 would work. Underpowering is kind of like running all the time in second gear. There will be little difference in fuel economy between 50 & 100 HP at cruise, same technology's being compared.
Bigshot posted 12-17-2001 04:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Get at least a 70 if you go decent distances and want longevity. I just went from a 90 Yamaha 2 stroke to a 70 4 stroke because top speed is not that bad(38vs42). I can still cruise at 27-28mph without beating the pee out of it.
JBCornwell posted 12-17-2001 04:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
To answer your questions, SoShFly,

For a 2 stroke: The OMC 3 cylinder 70 and the 16'7" BW are a marriage made in heaven. Not as fast as a 90 or 100, but more agile and just as dependable. With current suspicion of "OMC" products, a Yamaha 90 would be my second recommendation.

Four strokes are smoother, quieter and more economical. Yamaha's 60 EFI is a good weight and adequate power for those of us who rarely want to run over about 33mph.

Avoid engines over 300#. They make your boat prone to porpoise at high speed when trimmed out. Avoid engines under 50hp, they will be difficult to get on plane.

Good luck.

Red sky at night. . .
JB :)

dscew posted 12-17-2001 08:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for dscew    
Anyone know how much that 60 HP stroker Yammie weighs?
JBCornwell posted 12-17-2001 10:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
I read in a thread on another forum that it is about 250#, Dscew. That is virtually the same as the OMC 70.

Red sky at night. . .
JB :)

SoShFly posted 12-18-2001 09:06 AM ET (US)     Profile for SoShFly  Send Email to SoShFly     
Thanks for the insight.
You have confirmed what my local marina has told me (albeit more clearly and without $$$ signs floating above my head: thanks!) --- that I should be considering a 2-stroke 90 or 4-stroke 60 or 70. $ is also somewhat of a factor. I need to do some pricing. Good to see Yamaha is well respected. My fisherman/oysterman neighbor is on the water 7 days a week for a good 9 months of the year and would buy nothing other than Yamaha now. I think if he saw another make of engine on my boat my shellfish intake would drop dramatically.
Thanks again.
jay posted 01-07-2002 05:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for jay    
I've got many projects going, one of which is a new motor the Newport.

I would like some feedback on the best motor for the buck, i.e. which is most reliable, dependable, etc? Would a 4 stroke 70 hp have enough out of the hole speed to pull a 200 pound skier up?

What are the advantages of putting a 90 hp on? At present, with my old 70 hp, I go 30-32 mph, which is generally fast enough for me.

lhg posted 01-07-2002 05:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
I am convinced that, for the 16/17' hulls, the "most bang for the buck" is the Merc 2 stroke 90, at about $5000. Not that this is best solution for everyone, nor the technology & speed that you want. But it will give you the best "speed per Dollar of cost" at about $104/mph. Everything else, except a Merc 2 stroke 50HP, will be less (higher cost). Talking brand new 2002 engines here.
russellbailey posted 01-08-2002 09:31 AM ET (US)     Profile for russellbailey  Send Email to russellbailey     
Jay,

Regarding your question about if a 70 hp 4-stroke would pull a 200 lb skier up...

Our boat is a Striper 15, so it is a little smaller than your Newport 17. On it is a 1988 70 Evinrude. We primarily ski with the boat.

With that engine, skilled skiers in the 175 lb range can get up on one ski, but it is not quick. Anyone can get up on two skis behind the boat - we can pull two adults up at the same time if they don't mind dragging some.

In comparison to a Montauk with similar 90 Evinrude, the differences in getting up on a slalom ski are dramatic. The 90 pulled me (165 lb) out very quickly and easily. The 70 just could not match the grunt of the 90 in taking off - you can gear 70 down with a low prop, but you still can't match the acceleration of the bigger motor.

If you really want to slalom ski, I would not go any lower than a 90 - you'll be disappointed. If two skis or dropping a ski to slalom is fine, lower hp would be fine also.

Russell

jay posted 01-08-2002 08:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for jay    
Thanks for the answers. Maybe you can help some more as it seems like salespeople at dealers don't know what they are talking about. They seem to have more questions than I do.

When I repower, can I buy the wrong shaft length, or do the 70 hp and 90 hp all have one set length? If there are multiple lengths, what is the right size for my Newport? How is shaft length measured?

Can someone give me a general idea of what I should pay for rigging? When I buy an engine, what other extras do I need, I assume a prop, new cables?, new shifter/throttle. If I convert from the Johnson I've got to a Mercury, will new holes need to be put in the transom, or do they all match?

lhg posted 01-08-2002 08:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
For all mid sized engines, 30HP and up, all bracket mounting holes have been standardized, regardless of brand. If your OMC is REALLY old, it might have been manufactured before this standardization occurred.

All mid-range engines, 30-115HP, basically come standard in 20" (Long designation) shaft lengths. So also not a problem, since that's what your Whaler requires. It might cost about $350 for new binnacle mount single control, ignition switch harness and control cables, installed. Best price I have seen on a 2002 Merc 90 is $4900. A "leftover" could be $500 less. Other brands should be similar in 2 stroke version. A four stroke 90 is about $6800.

pcogs posted 01-09-2002 08:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for pcogs  Send Email to pcogs     
I just purchased a Yamaha 90 2-stroke at the NY boat show. By the time all was said and done the whole thing came out to $7200.
That includes new controls, instrument package, cables, de-rigging the old engine and rigging the new one and $160 for a prop.
Then there was tax on top of that.

Hope this helps,
if anyone knows if I got jipped let me know.

ps. the service has been great so that should count for something.

Bigshot posted 01-09-2002 10:46 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
There was a guy in Long Island selling 01 90 Yammies for $4800. Add $160 prop, $100 wire harness, $300 tach and $300 speedo, $100 cables and $500(high) rigging=$6200+ No you did not get ripped, just did not get a good deal. Did he take your old engine? If so you got ripped.
pcogs posted 01-09-2002 12:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for pcogs  Send Email to pcogs     
No, he isn't keeping the old engine and he's taking care of de-rigging it also. Plus the engine I got is an `02.

Thanks.

TightPenny posted 01-09-2002 01:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for TightPenny  Send Email to TightPenny     
Buying and engine at the boat show in NYC is not the most economical way to go.

You should have contacted Rudy Marine in Dover Delaware who sells Evinrudes, Johnsons and Yamahas. Best part of the deal, NO SALES TAX in Delaware. I got my 2001 Johnson from them last year. Saved $1000 over the best price I could find in NJ.

Bigshot posted 01-09-2002 01:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
I forgot $300 for contol box. Hope that helps.
Chris posted 01-09-2002 01:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chris  Send Email to Chris     
Insofar as speed, balance, handling efficieny and overall cost effectivenss the three best motors bar the 16'7" whaler hull are:
3cyl 2 stroke 70hp
3cyl 2 stroke 70hp
3cyl 2 stroke 70hp

No matter what the salemen tell ya

Chris posted 01-09-2002 01:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chris  Send Email to Chris     
Insofar as speed, balance, handling efficiency and overall cost effectivenss the three best motors bar the 16'7" whaler hull are:
3cyl 2 stroke 70hp
3cyl 2 stroke 70hp
3cyl 2 stroke 70hp

No matter what the salesmen tell ya

Bigshot posted 01-09-2002 02:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
I will add to Chris' post by saying 3cyl 70hp OMC. I have been on Yamaha, OMC, and older Merc 70's. The Merc was pathetic with the small foot(even stunk on my 15'), the Yamaha was close to OMC in top end but the OMC 70 just like the 90 has more balls out grunt than the Yamaha. Tradeoff is the Yamaha does not sound like a diesel and is 25lbs lighter. I had a 115 on a 17' and was not that impressed with top end. 17's are very light and efficient with low HP, they are not designed for top end so the extra Hp adds little but burns a lot more. I just bought a 70hp evinzuki 4 stroke and sold my 90 Yamaha. Don't really need all that speed on this boat and rarely do I drive that fast. Look at the 90 yamaha if you want some more grunt. Depending on the $$ you want to spend will determine you and your boats fate. Don't shy away from a 70hp and look at weight.
lhg posted 01-09-2002 04:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Merc's 2 stroke 3 cylinder outboard is a 75, not a 70. Nothing but a de-tuned Merc 90, which is the fastest 90 on the market. Don't ever race one of these with a 51 cube Yam 70. You'll get your doors blown off. They are a VERY strong engine, with 85 cubes. My guess is this 75 will out run, or at least keep up with, a Yamaha 90 also. They're a great deal at $4600 and 303 lbs, oil injected and with PT.

Sorry, Bigshot, but I just couldn't let your swipe at Mercury's 3 cylinder 2 strokes pass uncontested. We are talking new motors here, not 20 year old history.

"Whaddja pay for that Yamaha 90?" $7200! "Wow!" Bass Pro shop is selling Mercury 115HP Fuel injected FOUR strokes for that.
Prop, controls and rigging about $800 more.

Like Tightpenny says above, never buy anything at a boat show. All they do is jack the prices up so they can give you a discount. "Boat show specials" are a con.

Find what you like at a show, then purchase in the cold light of reality after you've shopped around and done your research. You'll do MUCH better.

SuburbanBoy posted 01-09-2002 06:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for SuburbanBoy  Send Email to SuburbanBoy     
Another option is the 70hp, 3 cylinder Tohatsu/Nissan. They weigh 250lbs. have oil injection, and should cost about $4,500 plus shipping, and rigging. Include tax and skip shipping if you purchase locally. Two year warranty, and a large (Mercury I believe) lower unit gear case. Tohatsu's come with all required accessories, such as throttle, prop, tach and tilt/trim gauge. You will need to purchase the throttle and shift cables, (~$60 total for both) and thats about it.

sub

SuburbanBoy posted 01-10-2002 12:37 AM ET (US)     Profile for SuburbanBoy  Send Email to SuburbanBoy     
On second thought get ahold of Fester... We should make him out master purchasing agent. Take a look at this thread and rethink your plans...

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000583.html

sub

bwmenemsha posted 01-10-2002 08:41 AM ET (US)     Profile for bwmenemsha    
greetings from pensacola fellow whalers...in ref to the somewhat adamant comments concening the best motor for a 16.7....will the 3cyl,2 stroke. 70hp also be satisfactory for my menemsha that i am restoring and that did not have a motor when i bought it...i know it is rated for up to a 100h/p...30-35 mph is good for me but i also do not want to overwork the rpm's....i have a line on a rebuilt johnson 88 with a 3 month warranty but i also have been told that this model did not have power trim with it....any recomendations would be appreciated...thanks
Bigshot posted 01-10-2002 11:16 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Larry I was talking about the old 3 cyl 70's from 70's early 80's. It had the same foot as a 40hp which limited it to 17" pitch prop. I had a 1983 on my 15' CC and it did about 38mph. I put a 70hp Johnson on it with a 21" prop and did about 48+. That merc was a joke and is probably why they made it a 60hp. It was light though at like 192lbs.

The new 75 was what my local dealer was selling as packages. Very nice engine. The Yamaha 90 is a joke too compared to other 90's but it is light and gets great MPG. You know it is not the same when my Montauk only did 41mph and a merc or OMC 90 will do 45+ but burn more gas. I think the 90 yamaha should be called an 80 or maybe an 85hp. It just does not have the torque of the others.

lhg posted 01-10-2002 03:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Just for the record, I DO happen to like the small Yamaha 70 & 90's. I think they're nice sized, quiet, clean and smooth engines. I like the twin 70's Jimh has on his Whaler. As mentioned, I just think they're a bit pricey for the small cube displacement, when compared to other brands. I agree, the 90 runs more like an 80, and the 70 runs more like a 60.
jay posted 01-10-2002 08:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for jay    
Still shopping for the repower. Saw a couple of boxed Evinrude 75 HP FICHT's for $5,900. What's a FICHT? Anyone got experience with this engine? I am guessing that it is some type of fuel injection.
tbyrne posted 01-11-2002 09:51 AM ET (US)     Profile for tbyrne    
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!
tbyrne posted 01-11-2002 10:02 AM ET (US)     Profile for tbyrne    
Sorry, I don't know what came over me. "FICHT" is a fuel injection system used by OMC from around 1998 until OMC filed for bankruptcy in 2001. Some earlier FICHT motors (especially some of the '98-'99 larger V-6s, I believe) had terrible problems, blowing up, seizing and even catching fire. I think it's fair to say that the original FICHT engines drove OMC out of business.

With that said, Bombardier, which purchased Evinrude and Johnson out of the Bankruptcy Court, has asserted that it has worked out the problems with its "Ram Ficht" system. I have no idea as to their reliability. Personally, I wouldn't buy one.

In addition, I don't believe that I have ever heard of the FICHT system in a three cylinder motor. I suspect others on this forum may have more information on this topic.

seagull posted 01-11-2002 10:26 AM ET (US)     Profile for seagull  Send Email to seagull     
2002 Evinrude 75 hp. ficht is a v4 and weights 362 lbs., same as the 90 hp. ficht. ejb
Bigshot posted 01-11-2002 11:00 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
That is supposably a great engine, but heavy for a 75hp. If I had to drag the weight, I would go with a 90. trailer boats did a write-up on it and said iot produced more like 80+hp.
lhg posted 01-11-2002 02:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Jay - to me it makes no sense to buy a leftover OMC produced 75 Ficht for $5900 when you can buy a brand new Merc 75 Four stroke for $6400, and with a 5 year warranty to boot! The warranty alone is worth the extra $500. Yamaha sells this same engine as an 80HP. Weights are all about the same, all heavy!
erniec posted 01-11-2002 08:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for erniec  Send Email to erniec     
I had a 2-stroke 75 Johnson on my 1970 Katama up until August. I could pull a person out of the water just fine with a smaller prop but lost top in speed doing so. I think the top speed was around 30.

I also fish the Ocean and lakes and along with skiing I just replaced it with a 2001 Evinrude 2 stoke FICHT 90. I'm also not one of the last one to make it out 12 miles when fishing for tuna. It has great milage, and I'm very happy with it, and the speed is about 42 now!

Good luck, because their's a lot of choices.

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