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Author Topic:   Twin 200's on 25 OUTRAGE

JimU posted 02-26-2003 10:42 AM ET (US)
Some local area dealers have some pretty attractive prices on new 1999-2000 200 OMC(Evinrudes)engines. Any thoughts about repowering a 1982 25-OUTRAGE with twin 200's. I know boat is rated for 300 hp, but I have seen LA. Fish and WildLife 25 Guardians
(Also rated for 300 HP)with twin 200's. I'm aware oof the insurance issue. Thanks.
Bigshot posted 02-26-2003 10:48 AM ET (US)
lhg has twin 200 or 225's on his. I would do it personally. New 2000 models I believe have warranties, 1999 will not, check on that.
Sal DiMercurio posted 02-26-2003 11:29 AM ET (US)
Twin 200s is the best way to go, because those engines wont have to work near as hard as a pair of 150s.
The 150s are 60 degree engines & the 200s are 90 degree engines such as the "V' 8s in our cars & trucks, better torque curve.
Those 200s can & will allow that boat to cruise at much lower rpms yet twist a bigger wheel giving higher speeds at lower rpms.
I'v never heard anyone say they had to much power, but certainly have heard people saying they wish they had more.
Sal
where2 posted 02-26-2003 12:49 PM ET (US)
The fine print on the 1989 25' Frontier says Max 300hp, "Higher horsepower available only for law enforcement applications". The previous owners of our 25' Frontier said it used to have a pair of 2-stroke 225hp engines, and run a little over 60mph wide open. Then again, it says "SHERIFF" on the side in gold letters.
However, the CPD boats supposedly have more layups of glass in the hulls than a regular pleasure craft Whaler. Anyone checked the CD-Rom catalog for the difference in weight between a CPD Guardian, and a standard OR? Latest CPD catalog says 3575lbs for a 25' Guardian.
My latest CPD catalog says Whaler Drive 25' Guardian/Challenger max hp is 350hp.
captbone posted 02-26-2003 02:57 PM ET (US)
I hear that progessive insurance will insure boats that are overpowered.
lhg posted 02-26-2003 03:05 PM ET (US)
Although I think the boat will handle those engines, I'm not sure I would do it. First of all, I would check the NADA value of 4 year old engines used. Even at reduced pricing, you could be taking a big hit out the door. Weren't 1999-2000 big Evinrudes only made as Fichts? If so, I would not touch them. That could be why they're still around. My comments are based on the assumption that these are conventional "Ocean Pro" 2 strokes.
Secondly, of the three major brands, the OMC 200's are least suited to overpowering the 25. With Yamaha and Mercury, the same block and engine weight is used for the 150's and 200's. The HP difference is only in the timing, carb jets or EFI chip. With OMC this was not the case, as the 200 is on the 3.1+ liter block, and subsequently a bigger and heavier engine.
Bigshot posted 02-26-2003 03:41 PM ET (US)
Good point Larry, I was thinking 455lbs each, not 540? or whatever the ficht weigh.
Sal DiMercurio posted 02-26-2003 06:11 PM ET (US)
The 2000 - 200 hp Evinrudes were FICHT only.
No problems with the big [ 90 degree ] block Evinrudes, only the 60 degree 150s & 175s.
The 200s - 225s weighed 504 lbs [ saltwater series ] fresh water is 495.
My 2000 - 200 hp Evinrude just turned 647 hours & runs as good as the day I got it.
One hell of an engine, brute power like none before.
Sal
Peter posted 02-26-2003 07:30 PM ET (US)
Be careful with the big Fichts, I believe that they had some fire hazard issues and I have seen one that caught on fire.
jimh posted 02-26-2003 08:51 PM ET (US)
[Emended "OR" to "OUTRAGE." See comments in META-FORUM regarding performance of search engines-jimh]
Sal DiMercurio posted 02-27-2003 12:46 AM ET (US)
The big FICHTS are bullet proof, the 2000s had to small of injector clamps, those were all recalled & no problems since then.
Sal
Bigshot posted 02-27-2003 09:40 AM ET (US)
See now I was told that all the 200 & 225 rudes were the problem and the 150 & 175's were ok.
TQT Whaler posted 02-27-2003 11:30 AM ET (US)
For what it's worth, I have twin 200s (Mercs) on my Outrage 24, although it's rated for 400. Why the rating difference?
Sal DiMercurio posted 02-27-2003 11:33 AM ET (US)
Nope, it was the 150s & 175s,.... same block., 60 degree engines.
The 200s & up are the 90 degree engines, only problem they had was the injector clamps & fuel line, they were recalled & larger bolts were installed & different fuel line installed.
Sal
lhg posted 02-27-2003 02:02 PM ET (US)
TQT Although the 25 and 24 Outrages were both 8'-0" at the transom, the 24 has a wider mid-ship width of 8'-6", so that evidently gives the higher HP rating. Either boat will handle 400HP from what I can tell.
I agree with Bigshot on the troublesome OMC built Fichts. It seems almost all of the problems that I read about were with the big ones, not the 150's or the V-4's. I know that BigZ (remember him?) had some problems with his 2000 225's. I also read that in 1998/1999, almost every one built went bad. Sal must have picked up a good one, which obviously can and did happen.
I also heard that about the bad batch of 2001 Mercury 225 Optimaxes. Some have been perfect, and some had problems, all from the same production run. Mercury now claims that all of those problems have been fixed, for good. So does Bombardier, as there have been no reports in the boating press about recent Evinrude problems.
Sal DiMercurio posted 02-27-2003 04:13 PM ET (US)
You people are really miss-informed.
The 150s & 175s were the only problem engines, as they were tested at idle & wot, but not are cruise rpms & thats when they blew their power heads.
As I pointed out before, the big engines [ 200s & 225s ]were recalled to replace the injector clamps & larger bolts, & the fuel lines were re-routed, but no other problems.
The pre 2000 150s & 175s were the engines that broke OMCs back, as 35% of the powerheads blew.
Sal
logjamslam posted 03-03-2003 03:01 PM ET (US)
I ran a Guardian 25 with twin 155 commercials
and with twin 200's. I liked the twin 200's
better...more power scottie...Don't remember the specifics-brain damage from too much pounding...
John Bocskay posted 03-08-2003 09:44 PM ET (US)
Jim, Progressive Insurance will insure it, I was worried about insuring my 22 outrage, 250 merc, but no problem with progressive.

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Author	Topic: Twin 200's on 25 OUTRAGE
JimU	posted 02-26-2003 10:42 AM ET (US) Some local area dealers have some pretty attractive prices on new 1999-2000 200 OMC(Evinrudes)engines. Any thoughts about repowering a 1982 25-OUTRAGE with twin 200's. I know boat is rated for 300 hp, but I have seen LA. Fish and WildLife 25 Guardians (Also rated for 300 HP)with twin 200's. I'm aware oof the insurance issue. Thanks.
Bigshot	posted 02-26-2003 10:48 AM ET (US) lhg has twin 200 or 225's on his. I would do it personally. New 2000 models I believe have warranties, 1999 will not, check on that.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 02-26-2003 11:29 AM ET (US) Twin 200s is the best way to go, because those engines wont have to work near as hard as a pair of 150s. The 150s are 60 degree engines & the 200s are 90 degree engines such as the "V' 8s in our cars & trucks, better torque curve. Those 200s can & will allow that boat to cruise at much lower rpms yet twist a bigger wheel giving higher speeds at lower rpms. I'v never heard anyone say they had to much power, but certainly have heard people saying they wish they had more. Sal
where2	posted 02-26-2003 12:49 PM ET (US) The fine print on the 1989 25' Frontier says Max 300hp, "Higher horsepower available only for law enforcement applications". The previous owners of our 25' Frontier said it used to have a pair of 2-stroke 225hp engines, and run a little over 60mph wide open. Then again, it says "SHERIFF" on the side in gold letters. However, the CPD boats supposedly have more layups of glass in the hulls than a regular pleasure craft Whaler. Anyone checked the CD-Rom catalog for the difference in weight between a CPD Guardian, and a standard OR? Latest CPD catalog says 3575lbs for a 25' Guardian. My latest CPD catalog says Whaler Drive 25' Guardian/Challenger max hp is 350hp.
captbone	posted 02-26-2003 02:57 PM ET (US) I hear that progessive insurance will insure boats that are overpowered.
lhg	posted 02-26-2003 03:05 PM ET (US) Although I think the boat will handle those engines, I'm not sure I would do it. First of all, I would check the NADA value of 4 year old engines used. Even at reduced pricing, you could be taking a big hit out the door. Weren't 1999-2000 big Evinrudes only made as Fichts? If so, I would not touch them. That could be why they're still around. My comments are based on the assumption that these are conventional "Ocean Pro" 2 strokes. Secondly, of the three major brands, the OMC 200's are least suited to overpowering the 25. With Yamaha and Mercury, the same block and engine weight is used for the 150's and 200's. The HP difference is only in the timing, carb jets or EFI chip. With OMC this was not the case, as the 200 is on the 3.1+ liter block, and subsequently a bigger and heavier engine.
Bigshot	posted 02-26-2003 03:41 PM ET (US) Good point Larry, I was thinking 455lbs each, not 540? or whatever the ficht weigh.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 02-26-2003 06:11 PM ET (US) The 2000 - 200 hp Evinrudes were FICHT only. No problems with the big [ 90 degree ] block Evinrudes, only the 60 degree 150s & 175s. The 200s - 225s weighed 504 lbs [ saltwater series ] fresh water is 495. My 2000 - 200 hp Evinrude just turned 647 hours & runs as good as the day I got it. One hell of an engine, brute power like none before. Sal
Peter	posted 02-26-2003 07:30 PM ET (US) Be careful with the big Fichts, I believe that they had some fire hazard issues and I have seen one that caught on fire.
jimh	posted 02-26-2003 08:51 PM ET (US) [Emended "OR" to "OUTRAGE." See comments in META-FORUM regarding performance of search engines-jimh]
Sal DiMercurio	posted 02-27-2003 12:46 AM ET (US) The big FICHTS are bullet proof, the 2000s had to small of injector clamps, those were all recalled & no problems since then. Sal
Bigshot	posted 02-27-2003 09:40 AM ET (US) See now I was told that all the 200 & 225 rudes were the problem and the 150 & 175's were ok.
TQT Whaler	posted 02-27-2003 11:30 AM ET (US) For what it's worth, I have twin 200s (Mercs) on my Outrage 24, although it's rated for 400. Why the rating difference?
Sal DiMercurio	posted 02-27-2003 11:33 AM ET (US) Nope, it was the 150s & 175s,.... same block., 60 degree engines. The 200s & up are the 90 degree engines, only problem they had was the injector clamps & fuel line, they were recalled & larger bolts were installed & different fuel line installed. Sal
lhg	posted 02-27-2003 02:02 PM ET (US) TQT Although the 25 and 24 Outrages were both 8'-0" at the transom, the 24 has a wider mid-ship width of 8'-6", so that evidently gives the higher HP rating. Either boat will handle 400HP from what I can tell. I agree with Bigshot on the troublesome OMC built Fichts. It seems almost all of the problems that I read about were with the big ones, not the 150's or the V-4's. I know that BigZ (remember him?) had some problems with his 2000 225's. I also read that in 1998/1999, almost every one built went bad. Sal must have picked up a good one, which obviously can and did happen. I also heard that about the bad batch of 2001 Mercury 225 Optimaxes. Some have been perfect, and some had problems, all from the same production run. Mercury now claims that all of those problems have been fixed, for good. So does Bombardier, as there have been no reports in the boating press about recent Evinrude problems.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 02-27-2003 04:13 PM ET (US) You people are really miss-informed. The 150s & 175s were the only problem engines, as they were tested at idle & wot, but not are cruise rpms & thats when they blew their power heads. As I pointed out before, the big engines [ 200s & 225s ]were recalled to replace the injector clamps & larger bolts, & the fuel lines were re-routed, but no other problems. The pre 2000 150s & 175s were the engines that broke OMCs back, as 35% of the powerheads blew. Sal
logjamslam	posted 03-03-2003 03:01 PM ET (US) I ran a Guardian 25 with twin 155 commercials and with twin 200's. I liked the twin 200's better...more power scottie...Don't remember the specifics-brain damage from too much pounding...
John Bocskay	posted 03-08-2003 09:44 PM ET (US) Jim, Progressive Insurance will insure it, I was worried about insuring my 22 outrage, 250 merc, but no problem with progressive.