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ContinuousWave: Whaler Performance
towing question/jet dock?
|Author||Topic: towing question/jet dock?|
posted 07-17-2003 11:25 AM ET (US)
a newbie whaler has two questions(probably stupid:)
A) just bought '82 18'outrage. I live on water,have dock,however not allowed to have davits,lifts(long story)
B) since not allowed to use lifts/davits, have any of you used a floating "drive up" dock? I though they were just for jet boats, but I've seen pictures with outboard boats up on them, how that works is beyond me
sorry for rambling, Thanks
posted 07-17-2003 12:50 PM ET (US)
The drive on floating docks are made of interlocking plastic blocks with hinges between them. For an outboard, you leave out eh rear center block leaving a notch in the dock for the outboard's lower unit to fit. Drive on, tilt up, walk away.
They work pretty well as long as the waterfront is not subjected to big wakes or waves. Can you build your own "mini ramp" on your property? If so, you could leave the trailer there with a winch to raise and lower it into the water. That way any new construction is not on the dock itself, no structural or permitting issues.
Also, an air powered float up Hydro-Hoist would work and not require any construction above the existing dock level.
posted 07-17-2003 01:46 PM ET (US)
well, just talked to the gang on the mustang site-it aint happening, probably end up dunking the 'stang-lol
kind of figured that.
does anyone have the jet dock set up?, it's a no-wake zone on the river(like that means anything to some people) so it probably would work as long as I 'm sober enough to not miss that notch for outboard.
can you explaina little more about that air hoist and where do i get info on it.
The seawall is owned by the city (nice so I don't have to worry about it, bad cause they don't allow davits)
but i have dock rights and own the dock
(the house is across street from water;stip of land from road to seawall owned by city)
posted 07-17-2003 02:13 PM ET (US)
just went to jet dock site- looks like excellent option
any input would be great
posted 07-17-2003 05:12 PM ET (US)
You just need a bigger one of these... (see first URL) The rear sinks, the whole thing looks like a floating boat trailer with 3 stoltz rollers up the middle, and two bunks on either side at the rear. Rear floats are air filled, allowing one to open a pair of valves and dump the air sinking the stern of the boat lift, just like backing the trailer into the water.
http://tfn.net/~wendtm/dadslift.jpg This would be the heavy duty version, with a 20' Edgewater, and a 200Hp Yamaha... The whole frame sinks out from under the Edgewater, so you drive on, and fire up the air pump to raise it up. Some inverted floats keep the frame from sinking to the bottom of the river. Frame is all the same aluminum that you use on a standard aluminum boat trailer.
Looked long at Jetdock, and it's other brothers. Alot of the manufacturers of the others said "Try a jetdock, before you buy one", and alluded to the difficulty of pushing a dry boat off a flexible floating plastic dock. Finally decided for the $4k+ that a Jetdock was going to cost, I could do some backyard experimentation with some readily available "float tanks" available from Merco Marine. These are just two examples of what you can do with them.
posted 07-17-2003 05:28 PM ET (US)
I like first idea, not sure how to go about it.
one problem with 2nd, and maybe jetdock, is that the river i'm on is a tidal river, at low tide my dock is less than 6 inches from bottom so,at lowtide, how would it work?
posted 07-17-2003 05:31 PM ET (US)
also jetdock said for the 20' dock, installed and all
heck, can by a truck for $2500 and just deal with droping in for weekend, then taking it out, ramp's less then a mile.
but then insurance.....
how much did it cost to set up yours?
posted 07-17-2003 06:01 PM ET (US)
I keep my Dauntless 15 on a Jet Dock, this is the second year. I highly recommend the product. It is easy to get the boat up on it, easy to launch. It is tough/durable and it holds the whaler well.
i have been so pleased with this product that i am contemplating becoming a dealer for it. So far, 2 of my neighbors thought it was so cool they each bought one. One has a 16' on it - a jet boat, the other has a 21' I/O on it. both work fine.
mine is on a large river (2m wide) with heavy, large traffic - lots of boat wakes. The JD people claim that the dock is fine if it is in waters that have 2' or less waves 90% of the time or more. Mine water complies with that but it has been through some serious blows - 3 and 4' waves and has survived well.
wait until you see the looks on neighbors faces when you drive up on this thing. really funny! They all stop to watch.
You boat stays nice and clean, it is easy and safe to board. No banging agains the dock etc...
get one. you will like it.
posted 07-17-2003 06:06 PM ET (US)
forgot to add that because of the material that jet docks are made from, it is pretty much self-lubricating. i can easily push my D15 off the jet dock and hop in as it slides off. alot of it has to do with how you manage set up the dock and how low you set it to be in the stern area.
They also have a very slick deal with the winch so you can very easily winch it off too. The winch off has a 2:1 mech advantage so you could winch your 18' off with it full of people no sweat. I would guess you could push it off if you had the weight placed properly.
posted 07-17-2003 08:03 PM ET (US)
the local dealer is going tolet me see where he's put them and talk to the owners.
6K seems a little high, but seems to be worth it
posted 07-17-2003 09:42 PM ET (US)
Mine is smaller, I paid about $4K for mine, but I was able to negotiate them down a ~7%. But then I bought mine in Nov for March delivery. I also got them to throw in the shipping, security cube and the tool for connecting cubes together. You can use the old standby's of waiting until end of the month/ end of the qtr. Everyone in sales always has a quota to make.....
Good company though. Very knowledgeable support. They send you a video about assembling the dock and about how to get your boat up on it.
If you can't tell, I'm really sold on this product. Well made, tough and functional. After two years out here, there have been zero problems - nothing has broken and everything works well.
posted 07-17-2003 11:58 PM ET (US)
you saying you installed it yourself? I may be able to save some $ if it's not a complicated deal to do 'cause jetdock franchise told me $6200 -special deal, fully installed
posted 07-22-2003 09:23 PM ET (US)
Little whaler lift needs roughly 26" of water at the stern. That's because the rear float tanks are 26" deep, and I usually sink them to the stringer to launch. Front end has 16" deep (foam filled) floats, and really only 8" of them ever sinks, all due to the weight of the frame and decking.
I could power-load the little whaler lift (like a Jet-Dock), but I prefer the security of winch-on where things don't get out of hand.
As an interesting note, the little whaler lift used to set within 6" of the bottom at low tide, but the outflow current from the local spillway has slowly conformed the bottom under the lift to match the shape of the float tank. I've launched it even when I couldn't sink the rear. Thanks to properly setup Stoltz rollers, she slips off without too much trouble (I only weigh 140lbs, and I launched it myself). The trick is not sticking the lower unit in the mud! A couple of power loading sessions would dig a hole deep enough to launch in, if your river is sand or mud... Even with the Jet Dock...
Cost was between $1500 and $2500. Lumber was all 3"x8" Pressure Treated for the framing, and 2"x6" for the decking. It's Solid... mainly because I expected if I ever moved up to a Montauk, I'd just move the winch stand. The whole lift frame is 8'x18'...
posted 07-23-2003 05:19 PM ET (US)
Info reg Hyrdo Hoist Boat Lifts
posted 07-28-2003 12:30 AM ET (US)
Problem with Hydro Hoist is that they ONLY use steel frameworks, and they really don't make a useful model for the 15'-22' boat. However, if you have a 30,000 lbs cruiser, they have a lift for you... Maybe when I get that 31' Whaler with twin inboards...
posted 07-28-2003 12:13 PM ET (US)
Putting together the jet dock is no big deal. You need to do it on a boat launch ramp though - but talk to jet dock factory and see what they say and how to do it.
i looked at the other floating lifts - welded steel etc... Looking at this hydro lift i would be skeptical of this thing surviving any sort of wave action like you would get with waves or large boat wakes. If this were in a marina and sheltered then probably no problem.
if you don't experience any waves then these would work. Here on the river, we are not all that sheltered and we do have problems with welded steel docks with welds breaking from the twisting. This is not a problem with the Jet dock.
I've had mine for two full years now with zero maintenance and it has been through some seriously rough weather. For example, a 4+ hour blow at 40-50kn with 3-4' waves hitting the jet dock. Part of my main dock has steel welded cross members - these broke, but the jet dock was undamaged.
so, like i said, i am a big proponent of this product. it is easy to use, it is great for your boat and it is reliable and maintenance free. I can't say the same for the rest of my dock (41'x11' floater built on 2 telephone poles attached to a 48' x4 walkway that is welded steel cross members). So, I have a variety of dock 'technologies' and by far the most reliable has been the jet dock.
The lesson that i have learned (and i have about $15K into my dock - don't ask, i know it is ridiculous) is that you either pay now or you pay later for maintenance and repairs. The Jet Dock is in the former category. I sort of put docks into the 'if you have to ask how much, you can't afford it' category with dogs and boats.
my advice is to go and do the jet dock. you will be very pleased.
posted 08-01-2003 09:52 AM ET (US)
I've decided to do it, end of summer-will let you know results~!
posted 08-02-2003 10:15 AM ET (US)
Let us know how you like it. I think you will find this to be a great product.
Rereading this, I see that you are in a no wake zone. That is just about ideal conditions for a Jet Dock. Mine is quite the opposite and it does very well.
posted 03-19-2004 09:03 AM ET (US)
I just installed (last week)a JETDOCK for my 170 montauk. After doing so I just was told by another boater in town that he and a friend of his had serious problems with their 2 year old JETDOCKS. They both have bw 15'ers. Each one reported serious wear on the keel from the constant rubbing and friction when docking. One said it wore through the gelcoat well into the fiberglass and the other said his wore into the foam. Needless to say I haven't used mine yet. I contacted the company in Ohio immediately and it is now in the "investigation" stage. I was wondering how many bw owners here own a JETDOCK or have used this product and what their experiences are. Has anyone even heard of this type of problem anywhere else?
posted 03-19-2004 04:22 PM ET (US)
Where2, Can you post some pics of your lift w/ your 15'. i want to build one for mine and need some info bc the jetdock is too expensive. i would like pics of the lift w/ the boat off of it to see the roller setup and any other info on how you built it. How long did it take you to build it and what did you use for floatation. I was thinking about using 12" foam blocks. would this work or is it not enough floatation.
Tightlines & Happy Whalin'
posted 03-19-2004 07:04 PM ET (US)
Seeing as you're only in Pompano, you're welcome to come visit and see how it really works... (the boat is on the trailer until mid April though...)
I just forwarded the photo of the framework before we decked it to my house, so I can host it on the WWW.
Flotation: http://www.floatdrums.com/ See Float Drums: 2'x4'x16" (qty 4); See Float Tanks: 26"x30"x60" (qty 2); Homeowners Hardware-Wood dock hardware: HL-OCF (qty 2), HL-IC (qty 2) and a bunch more stuff off this page that I can quantify if you really want it)
Time to build: 2 weekends (working long days both days). Another weekend to paint it, another day to deck it and paint that... You'll end up with about a week into it total. We built it once in the back yard, then disassembled it and hauled it to the canal and reconstructed it... Fully assembled on land, it's immovable.
Time to gather materials: Lumber came from a place in Delray Bch, FL. They're 3"x8"x20' pressure treated along each side. There's another two 3"x8"x16' (sawed in two) used as cross members in other places. This is not Home Depot materials, they don't stock stuff this size!
Floats take about a month between ordering them and getting them from Merco in West Virginia. They have to be shipped by freight truck, so it's not overnight...
As for your foam blocks: Having built docks using foam blocks before. My father and I have learned the hard way that it's better to spend the $$$ up front and buy the plastic exterior foam filled dock floats. The crabs and things pick away at open foam and slowly but surely the framework sinks lower and lower into the water until it touches it. Once it gets too close to the water, it will start getting water damage to the wood, and then the $$$ adds up quicker. I've got 16" thick floats at the front to keep the framework 8" above the water. I chose that arbitrary distance so that passing boats won't get the framework wet and entice it to rot.
More photos later...
posted 03-19-2004 10:03 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the pics. they are exactly what i am looking for. as for coming and taking a look, i have to talk to my dad and find out when he has some free time. i will get back to you on that one.
Tightlines & Happy whalin'1
posted 03-22-2004 10:14 AM ET (US)
Hydrohoists work very well. I owned one for several years, had an 18 foot boat on it. Mine had galvanized steel structure, but I believe the newer ones are made of non-corrosive material. Bob
posted 03-22-2004 12:43 PM ET (US)
Looking at the Hydro Hoist site a minute ago, they finally offer ONE model that has all the steel structure completely above water all the time (it still uses a steel framework). However, their main product line continues to use "Hot-dip Zinc galvanized Structural Steel Frame & Fasteners" Amazingly, they started in Florida, home of miles and miles of saltwater coastline! They continue to amaze me since most vertical lift mfg's have moved to 6061-T6 aluminum for the salt enviromnent.
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