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  Montauk hits 50 for first time w/ I-4

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Author Topic:   Montauk hits 50 for first time w/ I-4
PSW posted 07-22-2003 07:28 PM ET (US)   Profile for PSW   Send Email to PSW  
Well now that my Montauk is finished from its winter makeover and I have my prop of choice installed I have enjoyed many great summer time adventures with not one problem. Well the good trips just got better after last weekend at our family beach house. On Sunday as a I was getting the boat ready to go on the trailer I decided to take it for one last run to stretch the legs out since it had spent much of the weekend at low rpm's and towing slalom. Well I got excited when I noticed the wind was up and the tied was coming in. The chop was perfect and my gas tank was low with the boat fairly empty. All the stars lined up and with lots of trim and some chine walking I danced to 50.3 steady on the GPS. This may sound rediculous to report to most, but I have wondered for a while if the stock Montauk hull would do 50mph. It does but many different factors must be working together to make that happen.

PSW

acassidy posted 07-23-2003 10:44 AM ET (US)     Profile for acassidy  Send Email to acassidy     
What year is you boat and what it your power?
Bigshot posted 07-23-2003 12:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
If you were going with the tide....very possible.
Taylor posted 07-24-2003 07:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for Taylor  Send Email to Taylor     
Alright! PSW - bring that boat down to the August 2nd Northwest Rendezvous. I'd love a look.
PSW posted 07-25-2003 01:01 AM ET (US)     Profile for PSW  Send Email to PSW     
Sorry should have included that information. 1991 Montauk with 1991 Mercury 115 turning a Michigan Rapture.

Taylor I was excited about going to Blake Island until I realized that is Seafair weekend. My buddy has a house on Lake Washington and is having a big party. I am currently torn. The only reason I may not go to Seafair is that I dont want my classic to get any dings.

Bigshot is right the only way I think a stock Montauk with reasonable power hits 50 is using mother nature to help.

PSW

GlennGlenn posted 07-25-2003 01:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for GlennGlenn  Send Email to GlennGlenn     
What you allege, 50 out of the Montauk is not out of the realm of reason. My 13 foot 1987 Super Sport will run 44.5 on the GPS all day long with a 50 HP Johnson turning a 11 1/2 by 19 pitch Michigan Wheel. So, it is not far fetched. Friends of mine in Florida have seen 60 in their Whalers with 175 HP Mercs on the back, running jack plates and 21-23 pitch props. It dances a lot at that speed, but they will do 60. My brother in law has a 27 Outrage with twin 225 Merc optimax and we see 52 MPH all the time on that fully trimmed out.

Glenn

GlennGlenn posted 07-25-2003 01:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for GlennGlenn  Send Email to GlennGlenn     
"Bigshot is right the only way I think a stock Montauk with reasonable power hits 50 is using mother nature to help. "

PSW

I respectfully DO not agree with this premise. 50 is entirely possible with that, tide or not. In fact, if you fully trim out the Montauk and get air under the hull, only the last two feet will be in the water; also with the new hull coatings, 50 is also possible to get another 2-5 MPH out of the boat. I agree that 50 is entirely plausible and possible and won't doubt it at all.

Glenn

Tom W Clark posted 07-26-2003 10:22 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
PSW,

I have no doubt you could hit 50 with your new power. I'll be bringing my GPS with me to to the Rendezvous. Maybe we can document what it really will do.

By the way, the Rendezvous is on Saturday. The big Seafair race day is Sunday. The Blue Angles fly Friday, Saturday and Sunday so there should not be a conflict. You could boat down to the Rendezvous Saturday afternoon and then go through the locks to your buddy's house for the main event on Sunday.

PSW posted 07-26-2003 04:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for PSW  Send Email to PSW     
Maybe my post is being taken a bit too far, which is probably my fault. I know many whaler hulls do over 50, I do it in my brother-in-laws Outrage II with 150 Opti all the time. I was just speaking about the Montauk, which I do think 50 is a tough speed to obtain and really don't think I will seeing it again anytime soon because I probably won't be looking for a situation to do it in.

Tom I hope I can do both events but right now I am leaning towards just Seafair since the locks will be rather bust and I will probably launch Friday and keep the boat in the lake all weekend. Who knows though I could very well end up just going to the Rendezvous.

PSW

andiamo posted 07-26-2003 09:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for andiamo  Send Email to andiamo     
Not to be a kill joy, but if you you had an 8 knt tide running with you then your GPS was measuring SOG (Speed over ground, or ground speed as pilots call it) not water speed which would still be in your normal range. In orther words your boat was not really going any faster than normal.

It is like saying I rode my bike on a train car and the train was doing 90 mph and I was riding 10 mph and a gps would measure me at 100 mph.

PSW posted 07-27-2003 12:01 AM ET (US)     Profile for PSW  Send Email to PSW     
I am well aware of that. The tide was not moving to fast and never does in the part of the sound I was in. It is not like I am reporting some stupid pito tube figures or something. My whole point was just that for the most part Montauks have been figured to be only 47mph boats with normal power. I just have always wanted to see 50 in my boat. I know that I could go to the colombia or deception pass on a big tide and see 50+, but that is not what I was trying to do. I was just getting ready to put the boat on the trailer and saw some good circumstances. Please lets not look too far into this. Geez I am almost to the point of regretting that I even posted this info.

PSW

acassidy posted 07-27-2003 09:28 AM ET (US)     Profile for acassidy  Send Email to acassidy     
PSW, how does the boat handle at that speed? When I repower I would like mid and upper 40s. Is that boat OK with going that speed 50+?
PSW posted 07-28-2003 02:42 AM ET (US)     Profile for PSW  Send Email to PSW     
Acassidy,

the boat handles pretty well in the mid 40's. From reading this post you will see that the Montauk rarely touches 50 no matter what the horses, but mid to high 40's is routine and handles pretty well. I have hydraulic steering which helps. With the 115 the boat does not have to work very hard to cruise in the mid 30's and actually can cruise at 40 for extended periods of time very nicely. The boat actually does not get skiddish until 44mph on gps.

PSW

GlennGlenn posted 07-29-2003 02:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for GlennGlenn  Send Email to GlennGlenn     
It is like saying I rode my bike on a train car and the train was doing 90 mph and I was riding 10 mph and a gps would measure me at 100 mph.


Actually, if you did that, the GPS would read NOTHING since you'd fall off the edge of the rail car after about 1.5 seconds at 10 MPH

Glenn (:


I think we are all making too much of the tide issue. Lets assume there is no tide or very little in or outgoing. Assuming this, then I still believe the Montauk could see 50 MPH (Ground speed) with that power and prop. Even going against an outgoing tide it coulsd do it. Why is it so hard to believe that Whalers can't do 50 MPH. In Florida on the west coast, we see it all the time.

Glenn

Bigshot posted 07-29-2003 03:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
I do not find it hard for a Whaler to hit 50mph. I find it hard for a Montauk with a 115 to do it. I owned one with a 115 Johnson, no bottom paint and swinging a 19" prop and barely broke 45 on a good day. Now a that point I also owned a 15' CC with a 70 OMC swinging a 20" prop and my best was 48.6 on the GPS. I know a Whaler can do 50. Just not sure if a 17 wih 115 ponies is gonna amake it. If it is a strong 115 and set up right, his GpS numbers could be correct but usually count on 47-48mph. The hull is more limited than other Whaler hulls, hence why it does well with as little as 50hp. Anyone saying much more than 50 in a Montauk I call BS, etc.
lhg posted 07-30-2003 02:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Then, Nick you had better talk to Clark Roberts. He has said that he has obtained 50 in a 17 with a Mercury 90. probably jacked up a little. Several others here have also reported this with the 90. This engine probably puts out 100 HP and is as almost as fast as the 115 I-4.

My 16 Nauset with Mercury in-line 6 115HP would easily do 50, running a 21" pitch prop and 2.0 gear ratio.

Bigshot posted 07-30-2003 02:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
I know with a 115 tower of power they will hit it. With my 1986 115 Johnson she would not do over 45. Every 90 I have owned or driven did maybe 43. I would like to see it with their 3cyl.
tahodgson posted 08-04-2003 06:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for tahodgson  Send Email to tahodgson     
I have an old '70s Montauk, and it came with a 140hp Suzuki. First run at WOT (with GPS) on cold water in April in Minnesota, I hit 50.4 mph.

Have since repowered with a Suzuki 55...big difference, but my insurance company is now happy.

BillB posted 08-05-2003 05:46 AM ET (US)     Profile for BillB  Send Email to BillB     
tahodgson,

Smirked hull ?

GlennGlenn posted 08-05-2003 05:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for GlennGlenn  Send Email to GlennGlenn     
Bigshot says; "The hull is more limited than other Whaler hulls, hence why it does well with as little as 50hp. Anyone saying much more than 50 in a Montauk I call BS, etc."

Absolutely not true, if you put a 175 or 200 HP on it, it'll run in the upper 50s all day long. Maybe BOTH chine walking and porpoising, but it will do it. Probably more chine walking. Frined in Stump Pass Florida is runnning a 175 Johnrude on his and runs GPS at 58.5 MPH. It dances a lot, but he's gettng almost 60 out of her swinging a 21 inch prop.

Also, as far as the smirk, that is the famous view of the whaler from the front (someone asked!!). Also called the Whaler Smirk.

Glenn

BillB posted 08-05-2003 05:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for BillB  Send Email to BillB     
Thanks Glenn,
but I know what a smirk is :) .....I was just asking "tahodgson", in an admittedly truncated fashion, which Montauk hull he had.

I believe the pre-smirk Montauk is the faster ride.

Bill

Bigshot posted 08-06-2003 11:31 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
This post is about a 115, not a 175. Put a turbine pushing 2500hp and you might hit 100........yards.
Lou posted 08-06-2003 11:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for Lou  Send Email to Lou     
73 Montauk and a 2002 Ficht 115 easily hits 50mph and change on a fresh-water lake. I don't think this boat was designed for those speeds and I don't do it very often.
outragesteve posted 08-07-2003 04:37 AM ET (US)     Profile for outragesteve  Send Email to outragesteve     
50 mph in a 17 Montauk? Easy! I bought a new 1977 and rigged it w/ 85 merc (4 cylinder) It ran 38-40. When I blew it up (water pump failure) I re-rigged with a 6 cylinder Merc 115 (1985) on a 14" Gil bracket. Total lift was 4" (it could go higher) Boat is still running today, (I sold it to a good friend) It would run 62-64 (GPS) @ 5600 rpm, with two people. Hydraulic steering was a must, and with the extension, it will run 50 mph over stuff a 19 outrtage hides from... (kill switch ALWAYS around my hand) Prop is a Merc High Five 21". W/ 19" High Five it will pull two skiers up on slalom, and I have pulled three barefooters (they all dropped skis) @ 38MPH...must be the salt water!
Bigshot posted 08-07-2003 09:51 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Somebody get me a shovel.....getting deep in here!
lhg posted 08-07-2003 02:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Nick - Never underestimate a mechanically sound Mercury in-line 6. The power doesn't even come on until 4000RPM, and the 115's were really putting out about 125-130Hp at the prop.

At normal transom height and no setback bracket, mine would do 55 on a 16' Nauset, turning a 2 bladed elephant ear bronze prop. I don't think the current I-4 115 Mercury is any match for them.

Bigshot posted 08-07-2003 02:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Larry I understand but I also owned a 16' Checkmate with a 115 inline 6 swinging a 21" ss prop and she would do MAYBE 55. That boat was designed for speed and weighed about 700lbs, nothing in the water but the prop and the hull pad. You better know what you were doing or she would chine walk right over. My neighbor has a 16' Checkmate with a 140 Looper swinging a 24" and I bet it does not exceed 60, I've driven it many times.

I have been in Whaler 16's with 115 inlines and even a 140, no way more than low 50's.

2 blade props are supposably faster than 3.

I know what 60+ is like in a boat, my Baja does mid 60's. Aint no way on earth a 17' whaler is gonna get in that range, especially long enough for the GPS to "catch up" and you to take your eyes off the road long enough to read it. That boat would flip over backwards if it ever hit 60. I remember the days when I thought my 9' squall with a 4hp did over 20mph. It felt like it at 8 years old.

I am not trying to start WW3 here but please people....64mph with a 115? Show me a pic of your GPS at speed(in your Whaler on the water, not being towed down the highway) and I'll eat crow.

PSW posted 08-07-2003 07:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for PSW  Send Email to PSW     
I am almost starting to regret ever starting this post. Some of the numbers I am reading are pretty bullish. If it makes any difference I just had my boat on lake Washington all weekend and did not see over 46. Only opened it up for about 5 seconds before I hit some chop and had to pull off. For a lake full of ski boats, I was sure happy to have my boston whaler out for Seafair. It was sloppy as hell and I was in heaven. The hull design really earned its keep in all the side chop from boat wakes.

PSW

outragesteve posted 08-07-2003 07:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for outragesteve  Send Email to outragesteve     
Just a few more facts on the speed of 62-64: The boat is actually a 17' bare hull with Montauk console, It's weight on a scale (sitting on the shipping cradle) was 785 lbs. As a Mercury dealer, OPC racer and world champion offshore racer, I know alot about set up! The last generation 115 (99.9 cubic inch) in-line 115's were virtually the same powerhead as the 150's that were earlier discontined. The Mercury High-Five originally was pitched "high", thus they recommended a 2 inch pitch lower than your replaced prop to achieve the proper RPM (max). Thus, my 21" pitch prop was closer to a 23" prop! (Thus, the max rpm was a little lower than the engine could turn, around 5800-6000) I was "overproped", If you calculate the theoretical speed, with a 1:78.1 lower unit, it's almost 76 mph! A good "hook-up" (stock set-up) is 85/90 %. I was below that at about 84%. Thus the speed of 62-64. The High-Five also was tremendous bow lift. This coupled with the bracket offset, I could run a "neutral" trim angle, and avoid alot of the chine walk. At speed, the cav plate on the engine was 2-3 inches above the water, which was very "clean" due to the bracket set-back. I did need the second person in the boat to level it out. Battery is under the console, with a 18 gallon aluminum tank. Sea level salt water is "faster" than fresh, and the Mercury in-lines died at any kind of altitude. By the way, if you take a look at Outboard Performance Class (APBA) speeds for vee bottoms, (I had a 15' checkmate, blue printed bottom that ran 71!) speeds in this range were common. Mercury held every record but one for the class: not a JohnyRude in the field. Lastly, my largest fish caught was a 125 marlin, off the west end of Molokai. (Almost swamped the boat landing it). MY next project will be a 18 Outrage with a Merc 300 ProMax. Sorry, I can't provide a picture of the GPS: digital cameras weren't even invented yet in 1985!
brisboats posted 08-07-2003 09:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for brisboats  Send Email to brisboats     
Now I really regret selling a sweet 1986 Inline 115hp earlier this year. Its no secret that the late 115's were really 140hp motors and with the more modern ignition they were the best of the inlines. Maybe we should start a new thread. So who has the fastest Montauk? Outragesteve yours sounds like the leading candidate and one heck of a setup. As far as power to weight you would be hard pressed to beat an inline merc 6.

Brian

lhg posted 08-07-2003 09:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Steve - Very interesting comments. Have you seen the photos in the Rendezvous section of my 18 Outrage with twin 1985 Merc 115's, on 10" setback brackets? My stock gear ratios are different (lower) than yours, however, at 2.0. You must have changed yours? I'll bet you could set me up to "scream and fly"! I run 24" Laser's.
outragesteve posted 08-08-2003 12:26 AM ET (US)     Profile for outragesteve  Send Email to outragesteve     
ihg: drop me an e-mail and i'll try to help you out. I saw your boat a few weeks ago, and forgot about looking you up. My ratio was stock, but I think Merc had different ratios in different years towards the end of the inline 6 run. I rigged a 20 with twin 140's and it was terrible! We ended up with just one engine, and the boat still porpoised badly at speed. With the wide choice of props today, you can take the porpoise out of most boats, even ones with had "hooks". It's fun!
Perry posted 08-08-2003 03:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
Steve, I too live on Oahu. I've also caught some big fish on the west side of Molokai in my whaler. Are you a Merc dealer here? How big is your Outrage?

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