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Author Topic:   Prop for Revenge 22

Hans Jacobs posted 07-28-2003 02:55 AM ET (US)
The 22' Revenge WT I just bought came with a Suzuki 225 pk. The prop has a 23 pitch. I looked in the forum for comparable boats/motor combination and I concluded that most use a (lot) smaller pitch.
This weekend I did some test, with the wind in the back the topspeed was 37 mile (32 knots) at 4800 rpm. According to the manual of the motor the Full Throttle operation range is 5000-5600.
My conclusion was that I need a prop with a smaller pitch, is this correct and if yes, what pitch should I go for?
Peter posted 07-28-2003 07:58 AM ET (US)
I suggest that you try a propeller with a pitch that is not greater than 17". I have a Revenge 22 WT with a 225 hp Yamaha (1.81:1 gear ratio). It turns a large 15 1/4" (diameter) by 17" (pitch) propeller to a WOT max of 5300 rpm (WOT operating range is 4500 to 5500 rpm).
Peter posted 07-28-2003 08:00 AM ET (US)
I should add to the above post that WOT speed is about 43-44 mph.
Hans Jacobs posted 07-30-2003 02:09 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the reaction, I realize that I need to know the diameter of the propellor before I can compare. Is it possible to predict the increase in RPM based on the decrease of the pitch? The gear ratio is 1:86, speed measured with GPS.
Peter posted 07-30-2003 07:54 AM ET (US)
I am surprised that your engine is able to turn a 23 inch pitch to 4800 rpm. Plugging your data into the propeller calculator in the reference section and leaving the slip field blank indicates nearly 33 percent slippage which is high. Typical slippage at WOT is about 6 to 10 percent.
Making some assumptions by using a 10 percent slip factor, a 40 mph top speed and a 17 inch pitch, the propeller calculator predicts a WOT engine speed of about 5250 rpm which is within your WOT operating range. Changing the top speed from 40 mph to 42 mph raises the engine speed to about 5500 rpm. Decreasing the slippage factor will decrease the rpm at any given speed.
I would try a propeller with a 17 inch pitch and see what the results are. I would expect your top speed to improve and your engine to achieve its proper WOT engine speed. Most likely the diameter of such a propeller for your engine will be around 14 to 14 1/2 inches however I recommend that you check with Suzuki regarding the proper diameter.
Hope this helps.
Sal DiMercurio posted 07-30-2003 12:14 PM ET (US)
If in fact his engine is swinging a 23 pitch prop at 4,800 rpms wot, going to a 17p will allow to many revs at 6,000 rpms.
2" of pitch less equals 400 more rpms, so going from a 23 to a 17p is 6" of pitch which equals 1,200 added rpms on top of 4,800 rpms = 6,000 rpms.
I really do have serious doubts that prop really is a 23p because thats a whole lot more rpms then I feel that engine can twist.
My thoughts are it's a 21p or maybe even a 19p.
Thats an awfull heavy boat to be able to twist a 23p to 4,800 rpms.
I would bring that prop in & have a reliable prop shop check it for the correct size.
Sal
Hans Jacobs posted 12-24-2003 04:44 PM ET (US)
During the summer I did some more measurements. The top speed was 37 mile (32 knots) but the rpms were a little bit lower then I said I my previous message: around 4500 rpms. (What seems a little bit more logical if I do the calculations)
I had the propellor checked and it is a Ballistic 14-1/4 X 23.
In the shop they adviced me to use 5300 rpms as max for the engine (manual says between 5000 and 5500).
They said I had to go for a Ballistic 14-1/2 X 19 for general good performance and good cruising speed and a Ballistic 14-3/4 X 17 in case I want to use the boat for waterskiing.
What do you think of this advice? Good cruising is more important for me so my decision based on the advice of the shop would be the 19.
Peter posted 12-24-2003 08:23 PM ET (US)
Which ever propeller will get the motor to run at 5300 RPM at WOT as you are typically loaded is the one you want to use. That could be the 17 or the 19 and the only way to really know is to try both. I suspect that the 17 will put you on the high side of 5300 and the 19 will put you on the low side.
Sal DiMercurio posted 12-25-2003 01:23 AM ET (US)
I'm not overly fond of ballistic props because they are not the best for your application by a long shot.
I would beg, borrow or steal a Stiletto 14.25 x 19 because the Stiletto is a lifting prop & will bite better then the ballistic, reducing much of your slip factor.
I see no reason why a Stiletto can't be hubbed for a Suzuki.
By any chance, is your engine mounted all the way down on the transom?
If so, your dragging 2" more lower unit through the water then you have to.
My bet is that engine needs to come up 2 more sets of holes, that would put the 19p right where your rpms belong.
If the engine manufacturer recommends 5,500 rpms max while trimmed out & normal load, i'd certainly make sure that engine reaches 5,500 rpms to ensure that engine is able to develop it's 225 hp & breath freely.
That dosen't mean you have to run her that hard [ 5,500 rpms ], but your doing the engine a big favor by allowing it to run without any stress of over proping.
When you allow that engine to reach it's maximum rpm range, it's like down shifting your pickup while climbing a steep hill while towing your boat & letting the engine run much easier.
By only turning 46...4,800 rpms max, your sentencing your engine to an early death for sure.
Actually you need an 18 pitch but you will play hell finding one & to remove pitch from a s/s prop.........well, the pitch starts at the body of the prop & they can only bend the outer edges which isn't really putting or removing true pitch.
Another scenario would be, get a Stiletto 14.25 x 17 & have cup added if she over revs to bring where she belongs.
I don't understand why the prop shop told you to prop her for only 5,300 rpms when the factory recommends 5,500 max ,....i'd listen to the factory recommendation.
You can always adjust the rpms down by adding cup, but not so easy when it comes to removing pitch to get the rpms up because all they can do is bend the very edges or tips of the s/s prop, not all the way in like it was designed.
Also, be sure your tach is a suzuki tach & set at the right number on the back or your going to get false readings.
A s/s Stiletto bought on line will run you $249.00 total compared to much higher prices for comparable props.
Sal
quattro20vt posted 12-25-2003 02:57 AM ET (US)
Hans--
Please see this post for my previous experience with a Ballistic prop on a 22' Revenge WT WD... http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/001892.html
Nutshell: don't waste your money going to a different pitch Ballistic...get a different brand/line of prop, even though it may cost you more--you will be much happier!
At the end of the season, I picked up a 17p Mercury Mirage Plus...I have been out on a simple run with it but can't yet provide speed/rpm data to compare to the 19p Ballistic or 19p Mirage I tried before. However, I do get much quicker pick-up out of the hole and good grip all around. I like this prop. Other props may perform just as well, but I have no direct experience.
jimh posted 12-25-2003 10:10 AM ET (US)
Hans--Thank you for returning to your initial article and providing us with more information on your progress. This courtesy is greatly appreciated and adds value to the information contained in the thread.
It is also nice to see the fine facility of the Propeller Calculator being cited. The calculator is a very useful tool for analyzing results, and I think the implementation of it here on the website is the best available on the internet. For those not familiar with the device, a hyperlink to it is appended below:
http://continuouswave.com/cgi-bin/propcalc.pl
Hans Jacobs posted 01-24-2004 05:43 PM ET (US)
Based on the discussion above I like to try (and that means buy I am afraid) a Stiletto 14.25 x 19.
That means that I need to have the prop hubbed for a Suzuki engine. It looks like I cannot buy the Stilleto in Holland. I found some shops in the US that will ship the prop to Holland. So far I haven't found a prop-shop in Holland that can re-hub the Stiletto for a Suzuki engine.
So, I am looking for a reliable shop in the US that sells Stiletto's, can hub the prop for Suzuki and ship it to Holland. Any recommendations for a shop?
Thanks, Hans
Hans Jacobs posted 03-07-2004 02:48 PM ET (US)
Just a quick update: it was too expensive to get the Stilleto prop in Holland, I found a Mercury dealer that can rehub the props for Suzuki, and I can try different props.
The shop suggested to try the following props:
Mirage Plus (3 blades)
Vensura (Offshore series) (4 blades)
High Five (5 blades)
I will start with the High Five, looking forward to see the differences!
Jorgen posted 03-16-2004 04:58 PM ET (US)
Hello Hans,
The weight of the 22 Revenge and the lengt would indicate that with a 225 HP, a good choise will be a 21 pitch high five propeller.
I would reccomand to make a deal with a boatshop to try some differend models.
andygere posted 03-16-2004 05:02 PM ET (US)
I am running a 19 pitch High Five on my Outrage 22 Cuddy/Mercury 200 with good results. Weight of the boat is similar, and the motor is a strong running '89. 21 pitch sounds a bit high, even with an extra 25 h.p.
Jorgen posted 03-16-2004 05:13 PM ET (US)
Hans,
I tried to email you private regarding membership of whalerclubeurope@hotmail.com but your spamfilter does not allow normal mail to pass true. Would you be interested to become member free of charge? We organise lots of stuff for whaler owners in Holland and Belgium and more. Also joint saling events couple of times per year in and around Holland.
If you click on the icon next to my respond than you will see my email and profile.
email is whalerclubeurope@hotmail.com
Jorgen posted 03-16-2004 05:14 PM ET (US)
Hans,
I tried to email you private regarding membership of whalerclubeurope@hotmail.com but your spamfilter does not allow normal mail to pass true. Would you be interested to become member free of charge? We organise lots of stuff for whaler owners in Holland and Belgium and more. Also joint saling events couple of times per year in and around Holland.
If you click on the icon next to my respond than you will see my email and profile.
email is whalerclubeurope@hotmail.com
peetmin posted 03-18-2004 10:04 PM ET (US)
yo quattro- I have a 19 stiletto on the floor of the garage you are welcome to try if you would like to. I am setting that newer Yamaha on my boat. So if you wanted to give it a spin so to speak, help yourself. pete
Bigshot posted 03-24-2004 12:37 PM ET (US)
Hans....OMC prop will fit Suzukis.....19" is the way to go I believe.
Bigshot posted 03-24-2004 12:38 PM ET (US)
Ps....anyone read the new Boating mag where they try 3 different props on a 88 Revenge with a new 225 4 stroke?

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Author	Topic: Prop for Revenge 22
Hans Jacobs	posted 07-28-2003 02:55 AM ET (US) The 22' Revenge WT I just bought came with a Suzuki 225 pk. The prop has a 23 pitch. I looked in the forum for comparable boats/motor combination and I concluded that most use a (lot) smaller pitch. This weekend I did some test, with the wind in the back the topspeed was 37 mile (32 knots) at 4800 rpm. According to the manual of the motor the Full Throttle operation range is 5000-5600. My conclusion was that I need a prop with a smaller pitch, is this correct and if yes, what pitch should I go for?
Peter	posted 07-28-2003 07:58 AM ET (US) I suggest that you try a propeller with a pitch that is not greater than 17". I have a Revenge 22 WT with a 225 hp Yamaha (1.81:1 gear ratio). It turns a large 15 1/4" (diameter) by 17" (pitch) propeller to a WOT max of 5300 rpm (WOT operating range is 4500 to 5500 rpm).
Peter	posted 07-28-2003 08:00 AM ET (US) I should add to the above post that WOT speed is about 43-44 mph.
Hans Jacobs	posted 07-30-2003 02:09 AM ET (US) Thanks for the reaction, I realize that I need to know the diameter of the propellor before I can compare. Is it possible to predict the increase in RPM based on the decrease of the pitch? The gear ratio is 1:86, speed measured with GPS.
Peter	posted 07-30-2003 07:54 AM ET (US) I am surprised that your engine is able to turn a 23 inch pitch to 4800 rpm. Plugging your data into the propeller calculator in the reference section and leaving the slip field blank indicates nearly 33 percent slippage which is high. Typical slippage at WOT is about 6 to 10 percent. Making some assumptions by using a 10 percent slip factor, a 40 mph top speed and a 17 inch pitch, the propeller calculator predicts a WOT engine speed of about 5250 rpm which is within your WOT operating range. Changing the top speed from 40 mph to 42 mph raises the engine speed to about 5500 rpm. Decreasing the slippage factor will decrease the rpm at any given speed. I would try a propeller with a 17 inch pitch and see what the results are. I would expect your top speed to improve and your engine to achieve its proper WOT engine speed. Most likely the diameter of such a propeller for your engine will be around 14 to 14 1/2 inches however I recommend that you check with Suzuki regarding the proper diameter. Hope this helps.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 07-30-2003 12:14 PM ET (US) If in fact his engine is swinging a 23 pitch prop at 4,800 rpms wot, going to a 17p will allow to many revs at 6,000 rpms. 2" of pitch less equals 400 more rpms, so going from a 23 to a 17p is 6" of pitch which equals 1,200 added rpms on top of 4,800 rpms = 6,000 rpms. I really do have serious doubts that prop really is a 23p because thats a whole lot more rpms then I feel that engine can twist. My thoughts are it's a 21p or maybe even a 19p. Thats an awfull heavy boat to be able to twist a 23p to 4,800 rpms. I would bring that prop in & have a reliable prop shop check it for the correct size. Sal
Hans Jacobs	posted 12-24-2003 04:44 PM ET (US) During the summer I did some more measurements. The top speed was 37 mile (32 knots) but the rpms were a little bit lower then I said I my previous message: around 4500 rpms. (What seems a little bit more logical if I do the calculations) I had the propellor checked and it is a Ballistic 14-1/4 X 23. In the shop they adviced me to use 5300 rpms as max for the engine (manual says between 5000 and 5500). They said I had to go for a Ballistic 14-1/2 X 19 for general good performance and good cruising speed and a Ballistic 14-3/4 X 17 in case I want to use the boat for waterskiing. What do you think of this advice? Good cruising is more important for me so my decision based on the advice of the shop would be the 19.
Peter	posted 12-24-2003 08:23 PM ET (US) Which ever propeller will get the motor to run at 5300 RPM at WOT as you are typically loaded is the one you want to use. That could be the 17 or the 19 and the only way to really know is to try both. I suspect that the 17 will put you on the high side of 5300 and the 19 will put you on the low side.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 12-25-2003 01:23 AM ET (US) I'm not overly fond of ballistic props because they are not the best for your application by a long shot. I would beg, borrow or steal a Stiletto 14.25 x 19 because the Stiletto is a lifting prop & will bite better then the ballistic, reducing much of your slip factor. I see no reason why a Stiletto can't be hubbed for a Suzuki. By any chance, is your engine mounted all the way down on the transom? If so, your dragging 2" more lower unit through the water then you have to. My bet is that engine needs to come up 2 more sets of holes, that would put the 19p right where your rpms belong. If the engine manufacturer recommends 5,500 rpms max while trimmed out & normal load, i'd certainly make sure that engine reaches 5,500 rpms to ensure that engine is able to develop it's 225 hp & breath freely. That dosen't mean you have to run her that hard [ 5,500 rpms ], but your doing the engine a big favor by allowing it to run without any stress of over proping. When you allow that engine to reach it's maximum rpm range, it's like down shifting your pickup while climbing a steep hill while towing your boat & letting the engine run much easier. By only turning 46...4,800 rpms max, your sentencing your engine to an early death for sure. Actually you need an 18 pitch but you will play hell finding one & to remove pitch from a s/s prop.........well, the pitch starts at the body of the prop & they can only bend the outer edges which isn't really putting or removing true pitch. Another scenario would be, get a Stiletto 14.25 x 17 & have cup added if she over revs to bring where she belongs. I don't understand why the prop shop told you to prop her for only 5,300 rpms when the factory recommends 5,500 max ,....i'd listen to the factory recommendation. You can always adjust the rpms down by adding cup, but not so easy when it comes to removing pitch to get the rpms up because all they can do is bend the very edges or tips of the s/s prop, not all the way in like it was designed. Also, be sure your tach is a suzuki tach & set at the right number on the back or your going to get false readings. A s/s Stiletto bought on line will run you $249.00 total compared to much higher prices for comparable props. Sal
quattro20vt	posted 12-25-2003 02:57 AM ET (US) Hans-- Please see this post for my previous experience with a Ballistic prop on a 22' Revenge WT WD... http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/001892.html Nutshell: don't waste your money going to a different pitch Ballistic...get a different brand/line of prop, even though it may cost you more--you will be much happier! At the end of the season, I picked up a 17p Mercury Mirage Plus...I have been out on a simple run with it but can't yet provide speed/rpm data to compare to the 19p Ballistic or 19p Mirage I tried before. However, I do get much quicker pick-up out of the hole and good grip all around. I like this prop. Other props may perform just as well, but I have no direct experience.
jimh	posted 12-25-2003 10:10 AM ET (US) Hans--Thank you for returning to your initial article and providing us with more information on your progress. This courtesy is greatly appreciated and adds value to the information contained in the thread. It is also nice to see the fine facility of the Propeller Calculator being cited. The calculator is a very useful tool for analyzing results, and I think the implementation of it here on the website is the best available on the internet. For those not familiar with the device, a hyperlink to it is appended below: http://continuouswave.com/cgi-bin/propcalc.pl
Hans Jacobs	posted 01-24-2004 05:43 PM ET (US) Based on the discussion above I like to try (and that means buy I am afraid) a Stiletto 14.25 x 19. That means that I need to have the prop hubbed for a Suzuki engine. It looks like I cannot buy the Stilleto in Holland. I found some shops in the US that will ship the prop to Holland. So far I haven't found a prop-shop in Holland that can re-hub the Stiletto for a Suzuki engine. So, I am looking for a reliable shop in the US that sells Stiletto's, can hub the prop for Suzuki and ship it to Holland. Any recommendations for a shop? Thanks, Hans
Hans Jacobs	posted 03-07-2004 02:48 PM ET (US) Just a quick update: it was too expensive to get the Stilleto prop in Holland, I found a Mercury dealer that can rehub the props for Suzuki, and I can try different props. The shop suggested to try the following props: Mirage Plus (3 blades) Vensura (Offshore series) (4 blades) High Five (5 blades) I will start with the High Five, looking forward to see the differences!
Jorgen	posted 03-16-2004 04:58 PM ET (US) Hello Hans, The weight of the 22 Revenge and the lengt would indicate that with a 225 HP, a good choise will be a 21 pitch high five propeller. I would reccomand to make a deal with a boatshop to try some differend models.
andygere	posted 03-16-2004 05:02 PM ET (US) I am running a 19 pitch High Five on my Outrage 22 Cuddy/Mercury 200 with good results. Weight of the boat is similar, and the motor is a strong running '89. 21 pitch sounds a bit high, even with an extra 25 h.p.
Jorgen	posted 03-16-2004 05:13 PM ET (US) Hans, I tried to email you private regarding membership of whalerclubeurope@hotmail.com but your spamfilter does not allow normal mail to pass true. Would you be interested to become member free of charge? We organise lots of stuff for whaler owners in Holland and Belgium and more. Also joint saling events couple of times per year in and around Holland. If you click on the icon next to my respond than you will see my email and profile. email is whalerclubeurope@hotmail.com
Jorgen	posted 03-16-2004 05:14 PM ET (US) Hans, I tried to email you private regarding membership of whalerclubeurope@hotmail.com but your spamfilter does not allow normal mail to pass true. Would you be interested to become member free of charge? We organise lots of stuff for whaler owners in Holland and Belgium and more. Also joint saling events couple of times per year in and around Holland. If you click on the icon next to my respond than you will see my email and profile. email is whalerclubeurope@hotmail.com
peetmin	posted 03-18-2004 10:04 PM ET (US) yo quattro- I have a 19 stiletto on the floor of the garage you are welcome to try if you would like to. I am setting that newer Yamaha on my boat. So if you wanted to give it a spin so to speak, help yourself. pete
Bigshot	posted 03-24-2004 12:37 PM ET (US) Hans....OMC prop will fit Suzukis.....19" is the way to go I believe.
Bigshot	posted 03-24-2004 12:38 PM ET (US) Ps....anyone read the new Boating mag where they try 3 different props on a 88 Revenge with a new 225 4 stroke?