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Author Topic:   bottom paint performance reduction

alkar posted 08-03-2003 11:58 AM ET (US)
Earlier this summer I had the bottom of my boat painted with Dolphinite "Go Fast" botom paint. It turned out shiny and beautiful, but the paint has been falling off ever since, so the bottom has to be repainted.
I'm wondering how much speed I should expect to loose when I switch to another ablative bottom paint. I have a 22' Outrage with whaler drive and twin counter-rotating Honda 115s. (With two of us in the boat and about 50 gallons of fuel I got between 40 and 41 mph on the GPS last Saturday.)
Does anybody have a suggestion as to which bottom paint I should use? The boat will spend most of it's life on the trailer, but it will occasionally spend several weeks moored in the ocean.
Sal DiMercurio posted 08-03-2003 02:23 PM ET (US)
I painted mine with Dolphinite 3 times & it stuck like glue.
I'd try & sand & wash with acetone the spots that peeled off then use the same paint as it's much better looking then the dry looking ablative paint.
Mine has been on for about 4 months now & launching & picking it up 3 times a week hasen't changed any thing.
There was a recall on a batch of Dolphinite & a letter from Dolphinite on the site to people who have used it & had problems.
I'd contact them on their site.
Sal
alkar posted 08-03-2003 02:39 PM ET (US)
Sal, I've tried to contact Dolphinite four times. I've followed their contact information, I've completed their survey, twice, and I've written to their sales department. Nobody will not write me back.
It's especially irritating, because their site continues to refer to the exhaustive research they do and the way they "stand behind their products".
The Dolphinite news release makes it sound like those of us who bought their defective paint are on our own - that our only recourse is through the product manufacturer (which isn't Dolphinite).
At $260 per gallon I'm reluctant to give Dolphinite another try. Are there other good options out there?
If I apply one of the other paints what kind of performance drop should I expect?
Alex
Jamie 20 outrage posted 08-03-2003 04:59 PM ET (US)
Hey guys, did you notice any speed increase?
Sal DiMercurio posted 08-03-2003 06:48 PM ET (US)
I haven't really tested it as I haven't had much decent water in the last 3 months because of wind.
I will be honest though, she sure seems real slipery through the water.
She does seem to run a couple mph faster at cruise rpms then she did before, but because of water conditions it's tough to tell exactly.
Sal
SuburbanBoy posted 08-03-2003 08:36 PM ET (US)
If Dolphinite does not make it who does? Where can you purchase this paint? I have to admit that my 1979 would look much better with fresh bottom paint (has anyone tried white?). My boat is not a sponge, yet seems much slower than others. I have often felt it was the old bottom paint that is still partially adhered.
sub
OutrageMan posted 08-03-2003 10:41 PM ET (US)
To get back to the original question, if you use a hard bottom paint live Interlux VC17 you shouldn't notice any reductions. Something like Interlux Micron CSC you might lose 1-2 mph if that.
I have Micron CSC on my Bertram, and VC17 on my Whaler. They both are good at keeping slime off but the CSC will smear and come off on your hands a bit. I have really liked the VC17. The Original Color will go on looking like copper, but after it is in the water for a week it will change to a deep black/brown - very good looking.
Brian
Sal DiMercurio posted 08-03-2003 11:36 PM ET (US)
I used the white Dolphinite then painted an inch & 1/2 red line & another 1-1/2" black line over it.
Looks absolutly great with the white bottom.
This paint stays real shiny & dosen't rub off on your cloths or hands like all the other ablative paints do.
I'v had a number of people that own whalers come up to me at the launch ramps, asking what kind of bottom paint I used & saying wow!, it really looks great.
Sal
tomroe posted 08-04-2003 09:24 AM ET (US)
Maybe the color makes a difference in adhesion. I painted mine blue and it has been in fresh water since mid-June. I checked out the bottom as it was moored this weekend and found a lot of paint gone. Dolphinite's web site basically says it's not their fault that their award winning product doesn't adhere.
alkar posted 08-04-2003 10:46 PM ET (US)
I used the black Dolphinite paint. I'd estimate that I've lost about 20% of the paint after about ten days in the water, but some of it seems to be sticking pretty well.
Dolphinite appears unwilling to stand behind their product. In fact, it seems like it's only "their product" when it's "award winning".
When it's a faulty product it's the fault of the third party manufacturer who is yet to be identified.
By the way, Sal, I read about the recalled batch of Go Fast paint last spring. The official company line was that the bad batch had been frozen in transit and, after the adhesion problems were discovered, it was all successfully recalled.
I ordered my paint long after Dolphinite reassured us that it was safe to do so. They were wrong. Again. We're just SOL.
Bigshot posted 08-05-2003 09:58 AM ET (US)
Hold up kids!
You never state a few things here. Did your boat have paint before? Did you etch the bottom properly if not painted? If painted is the paint just peeling back to the old paint or down to clean Gel? If your paint is flaking down to the gel, it is your prep work that failed, not the paint. NO paint will stick to a slick gel coat.
With that said...I tried that VC Offshore with teflon that is supposed to increase your speed by 10%....BS. It was actually slower in a few weeks because the stuff did NOT work and crud started growing real quick....even in NJ.
tomroe posted 08-05-2003 02:43 PM ET (US)
I'll ignore the kid remark.....my boat had bottom paint which I partially stripped with Dolphinite's stripper (it did a poor job). I then sanded everything else down to the gel coat, repaired minor damage, sanded again, washed with zxylene and acetone and rolled and tipped the paint following the directions. This was done in a 70 degree shop with low humidity and cured for two weeks before the boat was put on a trailer. I'm not sure what else I could have done. By the way, I called Dolphinite before I did anything and asked them the procedure for stripping and repainting. The girl said "Just use our stripper, wash off the paint with a high pressure hose and apply our 'Go-Fast' paint". I asked her if any other prep was needed before repainting and she said "Nope!" Should have been my first clue.
Jerry Townsend posted 08-05-2003 06:41 PM ET (US)
Hey guys - I have no experience with bottom paints - but just a knowledge of fluid (air/water) flow and resistance. As such, any paint that is applied to the bottom of a boat will, by definition, increase the resistance which will slow down the boat. That is, it is very hard to make the surface smoother than the original gel-coat. Now, if the paint was a smooth as the original gel-coat and reduced the surface tension - that would be a different story.
As I recall, the purpose of bottom paint is to retard/prevent growths - but as I mentioned, being from Idaho, I know nothing about bottom paints. --- Jerry/Idaho
tomroe posted 08-06-2003 09:54 AM ET (US)
I read through the Dolphinite web site a little and found that although they say on their home page "increases speed!", they qualify that later on by saying "Dolphinite's Go Fast coating indicates drag reduction of approximately 7% to 17% below the anti-fouling painted hull". They have a new statement as of yesterday as well that says that their award winning paint now was not designed or manufactured by them and they are seeking compensation, etc., etc.. However, it appears as though you can still order it on their website...???
alkar posted 08-06-2003 04:39 PM ET (US)
Biggie, my boat had no previous bottom paint. It was prepared meticulously by the yard that did the painting. (They did the Awlgrip as well). They prepared the boat according to the instructions from the Dolphinite rep.
The paint is peeling down to the gelcoat. It's long strips in some places, short strips in others; sometimes it's big hunks.
I'm guessing the problems can't all be laid at the doorstep of "application error" or Dolphinite wouldn't be posting the defect notice on their web-site.
Bigshot posted 08-06-2003 11:12 PM ET (US)
Is the gel shiny where the paint peeled? If so....not prepped right. It has to be etched with either a hard sanding, etching compound(not done anymore) or a base coat that I can't remember the name but is a silvery color.
alkar posted 08-10-2003 02:10 AM ET (US)
I don't know, Big. I remember considerable discussion about the preparation. My memory is that the painter wanted to do considerably MORE than the Dolphinite guy recommended. If memory serves, the painter was just starting into the bottom prep when the Dolphinite rep told him he didn;t need to work so hard. I remember thinking it was odd, but I wanted the yard to do EXACTLY what Dolphinite recommended.
The other odd thing I remember is the extended drying time. We had good, warm weather, with relatively low humidity. It took several DAYS for the Dolphinite to dry, which was many times what their rep had predicted. The delay was a source of considerable diffuculty, as we could not sling the boat onto the trailer until the paint was dry.

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Author	Topic: bottom paint performance reduction
alkar	posted 08-03-2003 11:58 AM ET (US) Earlier this summer I had the bottom of my boat painted with Dolphinite "Go Fast" botom paint. It turned out shiny and beautiful, but the paint has been falling off ever since, so the bottom has to be repainted. I'm wondering how much speed I should expect to loose when I switch to another ablative bottom paint. I have a 22' Outrage with whaler drive and twin counter-rotating Honda 115s. (With two of us in the boat and about 50 gallons of fuel I got between 40 and 41 mph on the GPS last Saturday.) Does anybody have a suggestion as to which bottom paint I should use? The boat will spend most of it's life on the trailer, but it will occasionally spend several weeks moored in the ocean.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 08-03-2003 02:23 PM ET (US) I painted mine with Dolphinite 3 times & it stuck like glue. I'd try & sand & wash with acetone the spots that peeled off then use the same paint as it's much better looking then the dry looking ablative paint. Mine has been on for about 4 months now & launching & picking it up 3 times a week hasen't changed any thing. There was a recall on a batch of Dolphinite & a letter from Dolphinite on the site to people who have used it & had problems. I'd contact them on their site. Sal
alkar	posted 08-03-2003 02:39 PM ET (US) Sal, I've tried to contact Dolphinite four times. I've followed their contact information, I've completed their survey, twice, and I've written to their sales department. Nobody will not write me back. It's especially irritating, because their site continues to refer to the exhaustive research they do and the way they "stand behind their products". The Dolphinite news release makes it sound like those of us who bought their defective paint are on our own - that our only recourse is through the product manufacturer (which isn't Dolphinite). At $260 per gallon I'm reluctant to give Dolphinite another try. Are there other good options out there? If I apply one of the other paints what kind of performance drop should I expect? Alex
Jamie 20 outrage	posted 08-03-2003 04:59 PM ET (US) Hey guys, did you notice any speed increase?
Sal DiMercurio	posted 08-03-2003 06:48 PM ET (US) I haven't really tested it as I haven't had much decent water in the last 3 months because of wind. I will be honest though, she sure seems real slipery through the water. She does seem to run a couple mph faster at cruise rpms then she did before, but because of water conditions it's tough to tell exactly. Sal
SuburbanBoy	posted 08-03-2003 08:36 PM ET (US) If Dolphinite does not make it who does? Where can you purchase this paint? I have to admit that my 1979 would look much better with fresh bottom paint (has anyone tried white?). My boat is not a sponge, yet seems much slower than others. I have often felt it was the old bottom paint that is still partially adhered. sub
OutrageMan	posted 08-03-2003 10:41 PM ET (US) To get back to the original question, if you use a hard bottom paint live Interlux VC17 you shouldn't notice any reductions. Something like Interlux Micron CSC you might lose 1-2 mph if that. I have Micron CSC on my Bertram, and VC17 on my Whaler. They both are good at keeping slime off but the CSC will smear and come off on your hands a bit. I have really liked the VC17. The Original Color will go on looking like copper, but after it is in the water for a week it will change to a deep black/brown - very good looking. Brian
Sal DiMercurio	posted 08-03-2003 11:36 PM ET (US) I used the white Dolphinite then painted an inch & 1/2 red line & another 1-1/2" black line over it. Looks absolutly great with the white bottom. This paint stays real shiny & dosen't rub off on your cloths or hands like all the other ablative paints do. I'v had a number of people that own whalers come up to me at the launch ramps, asking what kind of bottom paint I used & saying wow!, it really looks great. Sal
tomroe	posted 08-04-2003 09:24 AM ET (US) Maybe the color makes a difference in adhesion. I painted mine blue and it has been in fresh water since mid-June. I checked out the bottom as it was moored this weekend and found a lot of paint gone. Dolphinite's web site basically says it's not their fault that their award winning product doesn't adhere.
alkar	posted 08-04-2003 10:46 PM ET (US) I used the black Dolphinite paint. I'd estimate that I've lost about 20% of the paint after about ten days in the water, but some of it seems to be sticking pretty well. Dolphinite appears unwilling to stand behind their product. In fact, it seems like it's only "their product" when it's "award winning". When it's a faulty product it's the fault of the third party manufacturer who is yet to be identified. By the way, Sal, I read about the recalled batch of Go Fast paint last spring. The official company line was that the bad batch had been frozen in transit and, after the adhesion problems were discovered, it was all successfully recalled. I ordered my paint long after Dolphinite reassured us that it was safe to do so. They were wrong. Again. We're just SOL.
Bigshot	posted 08-05-2003 09:58 AM ET (US) Hold up kids! You never state a few things here. Did your boat have paint before? Did you etch the bottom properly if not painted? If painted is the paint just peeling back to the old paint or down to clean Gel? If your paint is flaking down to the gel, it is your prep work that failed, not the paint. NO paint will stick to a slick gel coat. With that said...I tried that VC Offshore with teflon that is supposed to increase your speed by 10%....BS. It was actually slower in a few weeks because the stuff did NOT work and crud started growing real quick....even in NJ.
tomroe	posted 08-05-2003 02:43 PM ET (US) I'll ignore the kid remark.....my boat had bottom paint which I partially stripped with Dolphinite's stripper (it did a poor job). I then sanded everything else down to the gel coat, repaired minor damage, sanded again, washed with zxylene and acetone and rolled and tipped the paint following the directions. This was done in a 70 degree shop with low humidity and cured for two weeks before the boat was put on a trailer. I'm not sure what else I could have done. By the way, I called Dolphinite before I did anything and asked them the procedure for stripping and repainting. The girl said "Just use our stripper, wash off the paint with a high pressure hose and apply our 'Go-Fast' paint". I asked her if any other prep was needed before repainting and she said "Nope!" Should have been my first clue.
Jerry Townsend	posted 08-05-2003 06:41 PM ET (US) Hey guys - I have no experience with bottom paints - but just a knowledge of fluid (air/water) flow and resistance. As such, any paint that is applied to the bottom of a boat will, by definition, increase the resistance which will slow down the boat. That is, it is very hard to make the surface smoother than the original gel-coat. Now, if the paint was a smooth as the original gel-coat and reduced the surface tension - that would be a different story. As I recall, the purpose of bottom paint is to retard/prevent growths - but as I mentioned, being from Idaho, I know nothing about bottom paints. --- Jerry/Idaho
tomroe	posted 08-06-2003 09:54 AM ET (US) I read through the Dolphinite web site a little and found that although they say on their home page "increases speed!", they qualify that later on by saying "Dolphinite's Go Fast coating indicates drag reduction of approximately 7% to 17% below the anti-fouling painted hull". They have a new statement as of yesterday as well that says that their award winning paint now was not designed or manufactured by them and they are seeking compensation, etc., etc.. However, it appears as though you can still order it on their website...???
alkar	posted 08-06-2003 04:39 PM ET (US) Biggie, my boat had no previous bottom paint. It was prepared meticulously by the yard that did the painting. (They did the Awlgrip as well). They prepared the boat according to the instructions from the Dolphinite rep. The paint is peeling down to the gelcoat. It's long strips in some places, short strips in others; sometimes it's big hunks. I'm guessing the problems can't all be laid at the doorstep of "application error" or Dolphinite wouldn't be posting the defect notice on their web-site.
Bigshot	posted 08-06-2003 11:12 PM ET (US) Is the gel shiny where the paint peeled? If so....not prepped right. It has to be etched with either a hard sanding, etching compound(not done anymore) or a base coat that I can't remember the name but is a silvery color.
alkar	posted 08-10-2003 02:10 AM ET (US) I don't know, Big. I remember considerable discussion about the preparation. My memory is that the painter wanted to do considerably MORE than the Dolphinite guy recommended. If memory serves, the painter was just starting into the bottom prep when the Dolphinite rep told him he didn;t need to work so hard. I remember thinking it was odd, but I wanted the yard to do EXACTLY what Dolphinite recommended. The other odd thing I remember is the extended drying time. We had good, warm weather, with relatively low humidity. It took several DAYS for the Dolphinite to dry, which was many times what their rep had predicted. The delay was a source of considerable diffuculty, as we could not sling the boat onto the trailer until the paint was dry.