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Author Topic:   Yamaha 115-HP Four-stroke on Outrage 18
elaelap posted 05-18-2004 01:30 AM ET (US)   Profile for elaelap   Send Email to elaelap  
Just returned from the NorCal rendezvous where I had a chance to compare the performance of the new Yamaha 115-HP EFI four-stroke motor on my Outrage 18 with a couple of 150 two-strokes on similar boats. I felt it did well, and was pleased that other more experienced Outrage 18 hands agreed. I was lucky enough to have as passengers CW member Marc/Halibut Hunter (maybe 6'3 or 4", 180-200 lbs.) and his sweet little daughter Haylee (weighing in at maybe 30 lbs); I weigh 210 lbs. Later Joe Kriz (170 lbs.) and I also took a cruise, and he handled the boat out of the hole and at various speeds with more experience than I, and the motor seemed slightly more effective. I had thirty pounds of lead weights aboard, two batteries, anchor, chain and rode, a live bait tank on the stern deck which I've since pulled (35-40 lbs.), 2/3 tank of gas (40+ gallons), and incidentals. Speed measurements were made via GPS. We were cruising (some might say racing) on fairly smooth sloughs and rivers, with modest chop and confused small waves made by wakes caused by eleven Whalers of various sizes reflected back from the shores of the often narrow waterways.

I found out that my motor is prop'd with a Yamaha black steel 13-1/2-inch diameter x 19-inch pitch prop, which gave me an easy 40-MPH wide open at 5800 turns, and which let me/Joe squeeze out another MPH or two with careful trimming and smoother conditions. The boat came easily up onto plane in three or four seconds properly trimmed down/in, and could almost keep up with the 18's equipped with 150's on long straight runs. The boat/motor is sluggish and undoubtedly very wasteful of fuel between about 1700 to 3000 RPM. She acts like she's trying to plow the water with her bow high in the air, even trimmed all the way in. My favorite cruising speed so far, and the speed which I suspect will prove very economical fuel-wise, remains 24-25 MPH at 3700 RPM. My biggest complaint is that she won't get onto plane until she's going about 18-19 MPH/3000-3100 RPM.

Cetaceous goes in for a 20-hour tune and oil(s) change this coming Friday, and when I get her back I plan to do some comprehensive boat-speed/engine-speed tests, and then post again with more detailed information. So far I'm very pleased, and I feel that the 115 four-stroke offers an interesting alternative to the more commonly specified 150 two-stroke on a classic Outrage 18.

Tony

Tom W Clark posted 05-18-2004 02:16 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Tony,

A few questions:

What set of mounting holes is the 115 bolted on your Outrage 18 at?

Have you had a chance to run WOT by yourself with half a tank of fuel or less?

What is the displacement of the Yamaha 115 four stroke?

Joe Kriz posted 05-18-2004 02:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for Joe Kriz  Send Email to Joe Kriz     
Tom,

I can tell you that Tony's engine is mounted all the way down... I mentioned this to him and he told me his mechanic wanted it this way...
Anyway, we did a trial run and I pointed out that the cavitation plate was created two rooster tails... This indicated to me that the engine needed to be raised a minimum of one hole to start with... I even had him go back to the transom and take a look while we were underway... He saw where the rooster tails were coming from and agreed... He is going to move the engine up 1 hole to start with and see if he can get a littler better performance.

All in All, I was very impressed with his Yamaha 115 4 Stroke.. When he and Royce raced, I could not believe that Tony was almost keeping up with him..
I couldn't keep up with Royce either in my boat, but I'm not a speed freak and the water was a little rough. I would have liked to compare speeds on smoother waters like a lake.

At the price of fuel these days, I think I am going to keep my eyes on the Yamaha 115 4 Stroke for repowering in the future.. I'm sure Tony will keep us posted on his performance as time goes on..

Sal A posted 05-18-2004 05:31 AM ET (US)     Profile for Sal A  Send Email to Sal A     
Tony,

I am very happy to see that you foud your dream after what seemed like a long quest. Congratulations.

Sal

erik selis posted 05-18-2004 06:42 AM ET (US)     Profile for erik selis  Send Email to erik selis     
Tony,

It's great to hear some news about your "new" 18-foot Outrage!

How much does your new engine weigh?

As for being sluggish at those rpm, I guess that would be normal. My 170 Montauk also needs around 3100 rpm to get on plane. Anything between 1700 and 3000 rpm produces a wake that other boaters and fishermen with smaller boats don't appreciate very much. A sign of gratitude is then often shown. Maybe trim tabs would help us.

Moving you engine up sounds like a good idea also.

Good luck and looking forward to seeing some pictures soon.

Erik

elaelap posted 05-18-2004 11:04 AM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
Thanks for the advice and encouragement, guys. The motor weighs 407 lbs plus prop, it's a straight four cylinder double overhead cam EFI engine with a displacement of 106.24 cubic inches, bore x stroke 3.11 x 3.50, full throttle operating range 5000-6000 rpm, maximum output 115 hp at 5500 rpm with its gear ratio of 2.15 (28/13).

My last motor, another Yamaha four stroke, was a little 50 hp High Thrust on my light, smirkless Katama. That motor, probably because of its gearing, hopped my boat up onto plane almost instantaneously, and the boat would stay on plane at 10-12 mph, which was very nice indeed. She topped out at 30.5 mph with one aboard plus fishing gear, however.

Again my concern about this combination is the fact that the boat needs to be going relatively fast to reach planing speed, which might prove a problem for the kind of seas I fish and boat in. What appears to be the optimal cruising speed (at this early stage), 24-25 mph, is too fast to use pounding into the somewhat challenging seas where I fish, though it will be great for running around out there and returning to port with following seas. And I'm already well up in the high teens when I'm barely on plane, which is still pretty fast when it's real lumpy out there, at least heading into the stuff. I'm thinking that for my uses this motor would be perfect with a little less top end and more rpms at slower speeds...am I right that this might get me up on plane at slower speeds, and if so, maybe a prop with less pitch is the way to go (though then I'd have to watch my top end rpms, of course)? And the thought of trim tabs crossed my mind also, Erik, but I really know nothing about them except what I have(n't) learned from cursory reading of a few posts at this site.

Tony

prj posted 05-18-2004 11:15 AM ET (US)     Profile for prj  Send Email to prj     
Tony, regarding your "biggest complaint" about planing speeds,
I found myself more than a bit surprised by the same finding
when sea-trialing a new to me 1990 Outrage-19 w/ 130 HP Yamaha.

Fact of the matter is, I, nor you should have been surprised
by those higher speeds required to plane.
Moving up from a 15' (you from a 16.7'),
notice how radically deep the vee on the transom
of the Outrage is. This thing is going to go onto
more of a "soft plane", gently moving up until
it finds it's riding lines.

In contrast, both of our previous boats snapped out of the water
immediately and could travel much slower on plane
due to the gently rounded rear of the hull.

Of course, we know the trade off will be much better handling
and comfort in larger seas...

elaelap posted 05-18-2004 12:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
You're sure right that everything in this life is a trade-off, prj; and as an architect, I guess it's your constant task to balance and harmonize competing physical limitations, practical requirements, and aesthetic considerations. While I'm very pleased with the size, comfort and smoother ride offered by the 18, I know I'll miss the nimbleness of the Katama, the immediacy of response, the almost Zen need for one to pay close attention, and the feeling of being connected to the ocean, somewhat like surfing, provided by boating in a smaller Whaler in lumpy seas.

Tony

Peter posted 05-18-2004 12:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Tony,

I believe your propeller is 13 x 19 not 13 1/2 x 19. I'm not sure whether the 1/2 inch diameter would make much a difference, but I wonder if the current propeller is having a hard time keeping your Outrage on plane at the low speeds because the diameter strikes me as being somewhat on the small side for an 18 Outrage.

My 18 Outrage with a 2-stroke 150 (about same weight as the F115) would plane and stay on plane somewhere between 13 and 15 MPH. The 150 was turning a 14 1/4 inch diameter propeller. I believe that the F115 can accept propellers up to about 14 inches in diameter and would be curious to see if an increase in diameter while keeping the same pitch would help your situation. Also, raising the motor up one hole may help.

kingfish posted 05-18-2004 02:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Tony-
Raise your motor a notch or two before you do anything else, and observe the difference. If the difficulty in planing and the high speed necessary to maintain planing persists, try something like a DoelFin. Finally (unless you're prepared to shell out $500 anyway, in which case skip the DoelFin step), go to trim tabs. They *will* make a difference.
elaelap posted 05-18-2004 03:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
Thanks for that, Peter. Royce measured the prop from the center of the hub to the outer edge of one of the blades and we doubled that 6 3/4" radius to come with what we think is the diameter of the prop, but I'll check again. Anyway, increasing the diameter of the prop is an interesting possibility. I'm open to all suggestions, and I'm going to raise the motor one hole this coming Friday and see what happens with that...there certainly is a distinct rooster tail coming off the cavitation plate; whether raising the motor will affect the boat's ability to hold plane at lower speeds is the question, since top end performance is of very little interest to me (though it's cool, I guess, that my boat breaks the forty mph barrier wide open). We'll see what happens...

Tony

elaelap posted 05-18-2004 03:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
And thanks for that too, kingfish. The motor goes up one hole Friday and I'll report any differences.
Peter posted 05-18-2004 03:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Kingfish's recommendation to start with raising the motor is a good one.

Yamaha's web site indicates that the F115 takes K series propellers ("K" series propellers are used from 60 to 130 HP engines). The diameter of the 19P "K" series black stainless steel propeller is 13. I believe that there should be a "K" stamped on the propeller hub somewhere to confirm what you have. These propellers have "cleaver" style blades and are best run with a shallow motor setting.

Tom W Clark posted 05-18-2004 05:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Tony,

I would bet there's a four blade prop out there that might might serve you, but I wouldn't do anything until you have raised the motor one hole, had the engine checked over and gotten some more hours on the boat so can become more familiar with it.

I do not think you need a fin or trim tabs.

prj posted 05-18-2004 06:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for prj  Send Email to prj     
Is there any consensus that the greater bite
of a larger diameter or 4 blade prop
would reduce minimum planing speed ?

Can we achieve some consensus on Outrage-18'/19'
minimum plane speed in general?

2manyboats posted 05-18-2004 06:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for 2manyboats  Send Email to 2manyboats     
Of all the whalers I have owned , the 18'6" outrage was the hardest to run at a slow plane . It was either 12 kts. or 30kts. We kept moving weight forward and it did do better. If I had kept the boat much longer trim tabs would have been next. While I had the boat for sale I had 2 people who claimed to have owned 18/19 outrages tell me it would be a differant boat with trim tabs.
Tom W Clark posted 05-18-2004 06:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
My experience is somewhat different. My recollection is that minimum planing speed in my 1983 Outrage 18 with 1990 Johnson 150 hp V-6 was around 15 mph. This was with an 80 pound kicker motor and two group 24 batteries in the splashwell.

At that speed the motor was on the back side of the power curve, in other words it required slightly more power to maintain that speed than going a little faster, but it was still fully on plane. The motor also had to be trimmed ALL the way in.

The photo of my boat on Cetacea Page 40 shows it being run under exactly these conditions where we were trying to go as slow as possible but still stay on plane.

In contrast to this, my friend John owned a 1988 Outrage 18 powered by a 1988 Johnson 140 hp V-4 (smaller V-4 gear case) could not maintain as slow a speed. That boat, while only 10 hp less, would either go slow off plane or would go 30 mph!

I almost always cruised around 25 mph and John's boat just would not do it. When we were motoring together he was always shooting ahead and then falling back. He burned more fuel than me too.

LHG posted 05-18-2004 07:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
Yamaha makes a 4 bladed "Performance Series" prop for this engine.

How does this Yamaha/Mercury 115 4-stroke perform on an 18 Outrage in comparison to the Suzuki/Jophnson 140 4-stroke?
They seem fairly close if I remember correctly.

elaelap posted 05-19-2004 02:14 AM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
One of the main reasons I opted for a 115 as opposed to a 150 was my concern about weight in the stern, and I've been dreading the possible negative changes in performance when I re-mount my 8 hp 2/s kicker and sit another 40 lbs of gas and tank next to it back there in the splash-well. Wouldn't it be ironic if having a lot of weight in the stern like Tom's old 18 actually improves performance, at least as to planing at lower speeds. Of course, as prj reminds us, there's always a trade off, and my boat might lose its surprising top end speed, which is okay with me as long as the sweet mid-range cruising performance isn't greatly affected.

And now here comes Larry, of course, sensing a generally positive review of a motor and thus feeling compelled to remind everyone that the Yamaha 115 4/s EFI is a kissin' cousin to the Mercury 115 4/s EFI (but without all the problems...just kidding, guys). Larry, what about a four-bladed prop...solve the 'problem'?

Tony

Perry posted 05-19-2004 03:37 AM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
Tony, I'm glad you are enjoying your new boat. It sounds like the 115 Yamaha 4 stroke is a nice match for the Outrage 18 hull. You mention putting another 40 lbs of gas on the boat. Isn't 63 gallons enough? With the 115 4 stroke, I'd imagine you would have quite the range as it is.

Also, when I swapped my 13 1/4" diameter prop to a 13 3/4" diameter prop with the same pitch, I was able to stay on plane at slower speeds. The 1/2" diameter made a difference. If you have access to a larger diameter prop, I'd say it would be worth a try.

elaelap posted 05-19-2004 10:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
Hmmm, Perry, are you suggesting that I try to use the main fuel tank to fuel the two stroke kicker with some sort of after-mixer to add oil to the gas? You can see from the way I phrased that question that I'm totally ignorant about that possibility. I do like the idea of having the kicker's fuel segregated from that of the main motor, because the kicker for me is an emergency backup motor, not a trolling motor, and if something went wrong with the fuel in the big tank, or the fuel line, or in the gas/water separator, I'd still have hopefully clean fuel in the small tank to allow me to limp home using the kicker...or at least that's the plan.

I'm going to talk with the guys at the shop this Friday about trying a larger diameter prop...think I should go down to a 17P from the current 19P if I make that change? I wonder if they'll let me try that 4-bladed performance prop Larry is talking about.

Tony

Perry posted 05-19-2004 01:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
Tony, good point about having the kicker's fuel segregated from that of the main motor. These new motors are so reliable, I suppose one of the potential problems would be the fuel in 15+ year old fuel tank.

As for replacing the 19 pitch prop with a 17 pitch in a larger diameter, I only lost about 50 rpm when going up 1/2" in diameter. If you are close to the max WOT rpm with the 19 pitch you might consider staying with the 19.

Joe Kriz posted 05-19-2004 02:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for Joe Kriz  Send Email to Joe Kriz     
Tony,

I used to have a 6 gallon plastic Tempo tank in the splaswell of my Outrage 18 on the Port side.. I understand your concerns with the main tank when going offshore..

For me, I opted to remove the tank and install an OMC Accu-Mix system. With this system I do not need to mix the oil with the gas.
Here are some photos:
www.sisqtel.net/~jkriz/Outrage/rear-inside.jpg

A couple of reasons I did this is because of the weight of the extra tank and 6 gallons of fuel in the stern. Second, I did not want to stop by the gas station every couple of days to fill the 6 gallon tank and then add oil. Third, I can now use my main tank for everything and it last me a long time between fill ups when I spend a couple of weeks at the coast trolling for salmon. My runs on the main engine are only a couple of miles so most of my time is spent trolling slow.

The 2 stroke 8HP kicker only uses 2 1/2 gallons of fuel in a constant 8 hours of trolling or running which is very economical.

If I do plan going offshore, I still can cary the spare 6 gallon tank with me to run either the main engine or the kicker. However, the main engine would be running double oil as it already has the VRO system. With your 4 stroke, you would be burning oil in your fuel mixture should a problem arise. Maybe you should buy a 4 stroke kicker so you could keep straight gas in the 6 gallon tank.. This way you would not have to even think about mixing oil in the fuel.

I know, I like spending your money on boat items.... :-)

LHG posted 05-19-2004 03:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
Tony - I just wanted to remind readers that this fine engine can also be had on several new Boston Whalers, as many might want to consider it, and find your report useful. Isn't the EFI system on it from Mercury anyway?

As for transom weight, unless you have more than 610# of engine set back 10", with twin batteries in the splashwell, don't worry about it. I also think the heavier transom weight makes the boat ride better, particualrly with a good bow lifting prop.
The 18 Outrage generally needs bow lift (unless you're Tom Clark, of course!)

What about putting your spare fuel tank under the RPS, Montauk style? I sometimes carry twin 13's under mine, instead of the normal 72 qt Igloo, for extended cruising range. Even BW recommended this in the first catalogs showing the 18. It's also an excellent solution for extended range in a 22

Peter posted 05-20-2004 09:05 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Tony, I was playing around with the prop calculator with your numbers. It shows higher than typical slip at wide open throttle further suggesting to me that the prop isn't getting a great bite even at WOT. If after raising the motor your situation doesn't get better, then I think you ought to test the same propeller you have now but in the 17P version as you were thinking, and also the Yamaha 3 and 4 blade 18P "K" series "Performance" polished stainless propellers. They are about equivalent to a 19P black stainless prop in terms of pitch but give you some extra diameter and different blade geometry. I think most engines these days have rev limiters so I don't think you need to worry about going too far over the WOT range of 6000.
elaelap posted 05-20-2004 10:06 AM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
I'm playing hooky again this morning and heading up to a calm lake, Lake Sonoma, to do some trials with the current set-up before I raise the motor tomorrow...results will follow, and thanks for all the good suggestions, guys.

Tony

elaelap posted 05-20-2004 05:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
Some trial results with a Yamaha 115 hp four stroke EFI on a 1988 Outrage 18, no bottom paint, motor mounted all the way down:

(Wind variable 5 kts; smooth fresh water lake; air temp 65 degrees; water temp approx 60 degrees; approx 1000 ft altitude; humidity approx 65%; on board me (210 lbs) & brother-in-law Larry (170 lbs); no RPS--it's at home all torn apart being spruced up; no live bait tank any more; 30 lbs of weights midships; two batteries in console; anchor chain & rode; 3/5 tank of gas, maybe 37-8 gallons.)

All measurements via GPS and Yamaha digital multi-function tach. No current and negligible wind, so I didn't run in reciprocal directions.

700 rpm = idle
700 rpm = 3.1-3.3 mph
1100 = 4.7
1500 = 6.2
1600 = 6.3
2200 = 8.0
2500 = 9.0
2800 = 11.4
3100 = 16.2 (barely on plane, trimmed all the way down)
3500 = 22.0
3700 = 24.6
4500 = 30.0
4600 = 31.7
4800 = 34
5000 = 36.0
5700 = 40.8-41.1

I'll print this out, and after the motor is raised one hole duplicate the tests. Can't believe I didn't get one at around 53-5400 rpm.

Tony

andygere posted 05-21-2004 01:22 AM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
Tony,
Like Joe, I use an oil mixing unit to run my 2-stroke kicker off the main tank. It's a the Mercury version and it works quite well. I'll second the notion that a multi blade prop may help plane at lower rpms. I suspect with more blade area in the water, there is less slip and that helps planing at lower speeds. The 5-blade prop on my 22 lets it hop up on plane like my old Montauk, and I can throttle back and keep here there at about 15 mph.
Marc posted 05-21-2004 06:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for Marc  Send Email to Marc     
Tony, thanks again for the ride. The 115 Yamaha ran great. Fine tuning it will only make ride better!

I have a 115 2-stroke on my 17 (as you know) and I get about 41mph. I thought the performance on your 18 was outstanding. The only thing that took me by surprise was at idle speed. With the wind blowing, you literally couldn't here her running. Kind of nice if you are trolling all day.

The 115 4-stroke may become the repowering option for the classic 18 Outrage! And as Larry pointed out, that could be a Merc too. Seemed like plenty of power to me and I'm usually in the mind set of the bigger the better.

On a side note: I hope you get your boat back for our trip next week. Mine is in the shop at least through then.

Marc

elaelap posted 05-21-2004 07:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
Marc,

It was an absolute delight meeting your wife and kids at the NorCal rendezvous and sharing rides with you, the not-so-little sea dog, and Hailie (certainly the cutest skipper ever to take the helm in Cetaceous). I just got my boat back from Guenter's, everything checked out well, they talked me into using a Yamaha gas additive from now on, the motor's been moved up one hole, and I'm raring to go tomorrow for more trials. As you know, I've got a one day different kind of trial coming up next Tuesday, but Wednesday is a go for salmon out of Bodega Bay if the weather's okay...always the big 'if' with Blowdega. It's been nice out here for the past two days, in the mornings anyway, but the Coasties had to rescue some fishermen whose boat, not a Whaler!, began taking on water yesterday afternoon when the wind kicked up to 25+ knots.

Tony

elaelap posted 05-23-2004 11:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
Moved motor up one hole on Friday. Saturday deckhanded on another boat. Today took a very pleasant spin down the Petaluma River into San Pablo Bay (the northwest arm of the San Francisco Bay), then down under the Richmont/San Rafael bridge, through Raccoon Straits past Tiburon and Sausilito, out under the Golden Gate bridge almost to Pt Bonita, back along the San Francisco waterfront, out to Alcatraz for a nice lunch drifting in its lee, then back up the Bay and back up the river to the ramp. Four-and-a-half hours, four of us aboard (me, wife, couple of friends), about 90-100 miles of pure pleasure and great weather. With the extra people on board, and with an almost full tank of gas, I didn't think comparison tests would be useful; I'll give that a try later in the week back at Lake Sonoma. The rooster tails off the cavitation plate are gone, the boat is still real quick onto plane, and I continue to be very pleased with the boat and motor.

Tony

mfrymier posted 05-26-2004 09:58 AM ET (US)     Profile for mfrymier  Send Email to mfrymier     
Tony;
Congrats on all of the recent whalering! I'm glad you've got your OR18 up and running.

For what it's worth, I think that is a great motor you have. Ratherwhalering and I have a friend with a Protector with twin Yamaha 115 4s's, and they have been bombproof and now have close to 800 hours on them....

Sorry Rob and I missed you at the rendezvous -- we did about 5.5 hours of whalering for a one hour stop by on Friday afternoon!

17 bodega posted 05-26-2004 03:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for 17 bodega  Send Email to 17 bodega     
It's been fun reading this thread knowing I have the old boat Tony posted so much about on this forum! I really love the yamaha 50 HT motor, and yes, it gets up on plane immediatley with 6 aboard! I do notice some rooster tails (small, about 2 ft and 4" off the water) when she gets on plane. Is this normal? Are there any adjustments to the tilt/trim that would fix this? Should the motor be raised one hole?

Thanks. I fully enjoy reading so much info from all you experts out there! This thread reads like an encyclopedia for whaler performance.

Steve

acseatsri posted 05-26-2004 08:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for acseatsri  Send Email to acseatsri     
I thought I'd chime in here- My 18 OR w/ 150 2S Evinrude planes at around 13-14 knots at 2600-2700 RPM and stays there pretty well. 13.5 x 19P SS prop, Doelfin and transom wedges, bottom painted, 2 batteries in console, good size T-top w/ electronics box, clear plastic window on front of T-top (around 2.5' X 3.5' , lots of drag), and 10 horse Honda kicker on a bracket on the starboard transom. The Doelfin and wedges made a tremendous difference- I would STRONGLY recommend them if you don't want to shell out for trim tabs. The drawback I had was that I lost about 300 RPM and around 4 knots when I added the fin/ fresh bottom paint (37 knots, 4900 RPM). The bottom paint was rolled and somewhat rough- I plan on wetsanding it with 400 grit to smooth it out and see if it makes a difference. Both were applied at the same time, so I can't attribute which had the greater effect.

I'm putting Bennett M120 tabs ($375 on Ebay DELIVERED, 10" W x 12" L, pretty big for this hull) on it as I type and plan on removing the fin and wedges. I don't know whether it will be done before this weekend or not- I'm waiting for longer hydraulic hoses so I can mount the power unit in the console. When I get results, I'll post them here.

PS- thanks for the info on the 115 HP motor on this hull. It sounds ideal to me if you're not a speed demon and do your boating/fishing in bigger water.

As to propping, pitch has a much greater effect than diameter. If you're doing a lot of slower cruising, I'd opt for the next lower pitch. The engine wouldn't be working as hard at the lower speed and higher RPM. It probably wouldn't bog down as much when riding over waves at lower speeds where the boat is prone to falling off plane.

PS- 1 knot = 1.15 MPH

Salmon Tub posted 05-26-2004 09:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for Salmon Tub  Send Email to Salmon Tub     
Was at Wally world previous to last saturday and saw the Katama with the 50 Yamaha in the lot. I didn't know that you sold her already. She is a great looking boat. Tony, I will be mounting a Stingray on my motor, most likely within the next week or so, though I cringe at not being able to test it without drilling holes. Either way, I will post the result then. Good luck with the new boat.
elaelap posted 05-27-2004 10:52 AM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
Thanks for that, S.T. Credit for the Katama's current good looks go to her new owner, Steve/17 Bodega. I brought her half-way back, with my limited skills, from a pretty raggedy state to a decent utilitarian condition when I owned her, but I'm a better fisherman than craftsman, and that ain't saying much! My buddy/fishing mentor George frequently announces to all and sundry via VHF when I catch a salmon: "Tony's got one...they must be like cement down there."

When are we finally going to get a chance to fish together, old friend? I need to learn some new tricks from another pro.

Tony

17 bodega posted 05-27-2004 05:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for 17 bodega  Send Email to 17 bodega     
No.... not true... Tony had the boat looking fine in the first place! I bought her because she was so alluring!

Most of what I've done is minor stuff not visible to the passing vehicle.

The red canvas and the name is what really catches people's eyes!

Mumbo Jumbo posted 05-27-2004 07:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for Mumbo Jumbo  Send Email to Mumbo Jumbo     
Tony-

I have a 1989 18 Outrage powered with a Yamaha 150 two stroke. I originally had a 19" Yamaha stainless prop. I switched to a 17" Yamaha stainless because I often run in steep, choppy following seas and my Whaler performs much better In these conditions with the 17" prop. Speed is not my primary concern. I have a friend who has a 25' Contender who overpropped. His boat was very fast but a nightmare to drive in steep seas. He finally re-propped with less pitch and the boat now handles well in steep following seas.

Salmon Tub posted 05-27-2004 07:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for Salmon Tub  Send Email to Salmon Tub     
By the way Tony, keep in mind, too big of a pitch, and you may troll a bit too fast. Better to be just under, than over, since you can always bump it up a notch. I should start hitting Bodega about July, but may wait until August when cod open back up. Will let you know when the time gets close. The bay has been dead so far. This weekend will be a zoo, so I may fish shad at the river, or take the kayak to Sonoma or Berryessa, just to unwind.
elaelap posted 05-27-2004 08:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
I know, guys, and agree that it's better to have a smaller-pitched prop than one that makes the motor strain and doesn't allow it to reach its upper rpm limits wide open; but that's not the case with the 19" prop on my 115, to my surprise. 6000 rpm is redline for my motor, peak horse power is at 5500 rpm, and with the current prop I get 5800 rpm at WOT with two people aboard, lots of gas, etc. I'm going to stay with it as it is for a while, run some comparison tests up at the lake to see if moving the motor up one hole did more than just make the small cavitation plate rooster tails go away, and wait for some weather to check out her handling characteristics in conditions where it's most important that things are set up correctly.

Look forward to seeing you up here, S.T.; if you're coming up before late July or August without your boat, give me a shout a day or two in advance and we'll go out in Cetaceous and maybe kill some salmon.

Tony

elaelap posted 05-30-2004 04:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
Got up to Lake Sonoma early this morning to test the performance of my boat now that the Yamaha 8 hp 2/s kicker has been re-mounted. I filled up the 6.1 gallon Tempo tank (with gas and--yuck!--oil) prior to the test. I'm keeping the tank in the port-quarter splash well.

I was more than a little concerned about how Cetaceous would perform with the extra weight in the stern, and she did fine. Just as quick, maybe even quicker, onto plane, cruised right along like before (but with a slightly more pronounced list to port caused by the weight of the kicker and fuel on the port side as well as the big motor/prop's torque...nothing radical to worry about, and I'll balance her with another thirty or forty pounds of salmon weights to starboard). The kicker was a little slow to start up (first time in six or seven weeks), but then putted along just fine at various speeds, pushed the sweet OR 18 hull through the smooth water with ease up to maybe five or six knots, restarted immediately once warmed up, and now I'm seriously thinking of using it as a trolling motor, at least in decent seas. Just imagine how much longer my 115 will last if I don't put four or five trolling hours on it once or twice a week, and I'll save bucks on gas, oil changes and 200-hr 'tune-ups' as well.

It was very crowded this Memorial Day weekend at the lake, so I didn't stick around to do comprehensive testing at various rpm to compare with the earlier tests, but I am curious to see whether moving the motor up one hole really did make a significant difference. To make the comparison valid, I suppose the kicker should be taken off again and its tank removed, but knowing Tony as well as I do after all these years, I have a feeling he's much too lazy to do that. We'll see what happens...

Tony

Royce posted 05-30-2004 05:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for Royce  Send Email to Royce     
Tony- Most people run either the main motor or the kicker. Running them both at the same time is not a proper test. That 8 hp. gave that 115 hp. of yours the extra power to get your boat up on plane-- finally. If you added leather seats the boat would be even faster!
Royce
elaelap posted 05-30-2004 08:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
Hmmmm, Royce. I seem to remember you straining forward trying to PUSH your 18 along while we were "cruising" next to each other at the NorCal rendezvous. The vaunted 150 two stroke versus the upstart 115 smokeless on the same exact hull, Cetaceous with a hundred extra pounds of humanity and a live bait tank aboard, and the winner is...

Tony [whoops, I always sign my name there, R., it's just a coincidence, really]

Royce posted 06-01-2004 03:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for Royce  Send Email to Royce     
Tony- you must be slowing down. I t took you a couple of days to respond--but then, good lawyers must be deliberate about their responses. Next time we race i'll have to use the main motor.
Royce

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