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Author Topic:   Permatrim Hydrofoil
mikeyairtime posted 08-31-2004 09:34 AM ET (US)   Profile for mikeyairtime  
I recieved and mounted a Permatrim on my 170 MONTAUK with Mercury 90-HP 4=stroke. I liked the design of the Permatrim because it's just a big trim tab, not a hydrofoil (even though they call it a Permatrim Hydrofoil). With my 170 when I was running uphill even slowly the bow was light and would easily pound. Also, I carry a 27-gallon Pate tank and a 28-gallon bait tank, so my stern is well loaded. The installation was easy but does require lay out and drilling. A set of calipers and some sharp drills did the trick. The difference was very noticable. The bow is now much more planted. I ran home from Catalina Saturday at 5:30 pm and was able to make a steady 14-15 knots on plane with all my gear, an extra 10 gallon bait tank that I didn't list above, my wife, and two kids on board, without pounding. If you run a small boat in rough water the stabilizers work without the complexity of trim tabs.
seasicknes posted 08-31-2004 11:04 AM ET (US)     Profile for seasicknes    
I puut on a Cobra Edge on a 170 about two weeks ago.
The Edge really planeted down the front end of the boat. Boat runs on plane a lot easier.
Boat runs softer too.

I got it in powder coated black on stainless.

WT posted 08-31-2004 03:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for WT  Send Email to WT     
mikeyairtime:

Did you notice much loss of speed at the top end?

WT

pvonk posted 08-31-2004 06:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for pvonk  Send Email to pvonk     
Mickey, I've got a Mercury 90-HP 4-stroke. What model of Permatrim did you get? And did you order from [John Jenson]? Does installation require drilling into the Merc, and what happens to Mercury's warrenty? Finally, are install instructions very clear? Thanks...

Pierre

mikeyairtime posted 08-31-2004 06:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for mikeyairtime    
I came out of second street ramp in Long Beach CA which doesn't let you get up on plane until the open Pacific so I never got to stand on it. Even going out in the morning we'd have been jumping waves if I tried to hold it wide open. It should be interesting because even though we are dragging the stabilizer through the water we should be able to trim the bow up more and have less wetted suface which cuts drag. I marlin trolled all morning which is about as inefficient as possible in a small boat. (2900 RPM at 9 knots pushing a mountain of water ahead.) We bait fished the island until 5:30 pm with the boat running most of the time, and then we had a long ride home through the rough stuff. In 14 hours of running with a heavy load we only burned 33 gallons of fuel. My 22' aluminum lobster skiff with 130 Yamaha used to burn almost 70 gallons on the same run. Love that 4 stroke.
mikeyairtime posted 08-31-2004 06:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for mikeyairtime    
pvonk,

Sorry, I was writing my reply when your question came up. Yes, I ordered from John Jenson in San Diego. I got the one he recomended for the 90 Merc 4-stroke. I ordered on Friday and had it Tuesday. Yes, I drilled holes. The only way Merc can deny warranty is if they can prove what you did caused the problem. I suppose they could give you grief if your power trim died from the extra load or the trim tab broke but that's about it. I had a Doel Fin on my Yamaha with drilled holes and the Yamaha rep never batted an eye when he came to aprove warranty work when I grenaded my powerhead.

jimh posted 09-01-2004 07:54 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I have to say that PERMATRIM have raised the level of this anti-ventilation plate attachment to new heights. Instead of a $35 investment in plastic, it appears these metal plates are priced around $80-$195.
mikeyairtime posted 09-01-2004 09:03 AM ET (US)     Profile for mikeyairtime    
They scoffed when fuel injection was offered as an aftermarket add on for boats too.
macfam posted 09-01-2004 11:43 AM ET (US)     Profile for macfam  Send Email to macfam     
Let's not forget......they scoffed at Dick Fisher too!!
jimh posted 09-01-2004 08:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Dick Fisher didn't offer an 8-oz. piece of plastic you attach to someone else's product and claimed it suddenly makes it much better.

Dick Fisher invented an entirely new manufacturing technique for making boats, used it to produce a well-designed innovative hull, and marketed it with straightforward advertising.

Do you think if Dick Fisher showed up with a bent piece of aluminum you attached to someone else's boat, you'd be reading about his company 45 years later in a forum and website that concentrates on it?

macfam posted 09-01-2004 09:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for macfam  Send Email to macfam     
No Jim....I think you missed the point.
Clearly you are biased regarding any hydrofoil....I've read your posts, over and over.
Hey, that's OK with me.

Notions and ideas, big and small, can be ridiculed by the masses. Like Christopher Columbus, Wilbur and Orvill, and Dick Fisher.
People, in general, just don't like new things. They resist change. (me too!)
Some are complex (computers) some are simple (hydrofoils) some are ugly (catamarans), some are very small (remember the pocket calculator, computer chip, etc.?)
But they can be among the best inventions ever made.

I live in Massachsetts. I remember the ridicule by many regarding a boat that didn't have a pointed bow, low sides, not made of wood, and, oh yeah, "unsinkable" etc. etc.
It's just another great idea, matched with great energy, matched with great timing that succeeded.

Hydrofoils work for me. Period.

It really not that important.
Switch to decaf....


mikeyairtime posted 09-02-2004 07:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for mikeyairtime    
Hydrofoils or whatever you want to call them are an excellent tool if you regularly run a small skiff in rough water. Scoff if you will but having the bow planted when running uphill makes a huge difference in the ride and the ability to plane at a slower speed makes for a much more controlable ride. If you do all your boating on protected bodies of water or run for home as soon as the wind starts to blow you'll never understand a foils most important purpose. They do one of a trim tab sets most important jobs without the cost and complexity. The differece may be that some of us regularly run our skiffs through seas that would send a "fair weather" boaters running for cover.
jimh posted 09-02-2004 07:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Mikey--you have added some qualities of the hydrofoil that even their proud manufacturers have not yet elaborated--that you have to be a real man to experience the value of them. Thanks for pointing that out. I will include that in the list of benefits associated with purchasing them and installing them.
mikeyairtime posted 09-02-2004 08:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for mikeyairtime    
Thanks Jim, but my wife comes along too.
David Livingstone posted 09-02-2004 11:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Livingstone  Send Email to David Livingstone     
I put Stingray Hydrofoil on my Montauk last week. With the 100hp 4s Yamaha, 4hp 4s Yamaha kicker and stern seat with three adults, I was running a little light in the bow. On the Island, we always have wind and 1-2 ft waves are the norm. I could not believe how much $49 worth of plastic could improve the ride. I am now able to plane at 13mph and ran into a 15-20 kt headwind with two foot seas going 26mph. I think I may have lost 3-4mph of WOT but comfort is more important to me than speed. I have also been trying to figure out why the outboard manufacters don't sell them as options, but that would be like boat builders selling boat fenders. You might need them but they don't come with the boat.
All the Best, David
quickfarms posted 09-03-2004 11:15 AM ET (US)     Profile for quickfarms  Send Email to quickfarms     
Check out the Honda web site.

They list one that looks like a doel that is color matched to their outboards and the price is no to steap for a manufacturer.

If you use their part it should not affect the waranty.

I have been considering that one or a permatrim for my tiller 13'

One advantage of the permatrim over the plastic one is it can be used as a step, see their web site.

While this is not that much of an advantage on a 13' it would eliminate the need for a ladder on the Outrage.

jimh posted 09-03-2004 11:31 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
If HONDA really is in the hydrofoil accessory business, it would nice to have a hyperlink to where they sell these. I do not recall any outboard manufacturer offering these as OEM accessories. This might be a first. Can we have a link, please?
mikeyairtime posted 09-03-2004 12:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for mikeyairtime    
With all due respect and with the utmost of professionalism I have but one thing to say. Neener, neener neener.
mikeyairtime posted 09-03-2004 01:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for mikeyairtime    
Go to www.honda-marine.com/catalog and then go to the 9th heading down which is ml.rka15001.misc. It was the only way I could get to it with out an object not found message comming up.
RLSmith posted 09-05-2004 12:44 AM ET (US)     Profile for RLSmith  Send Email to RLSmith     
Just for grins I searched for that part number 06998-ZW7-A00AH using MSN search. A single result linked directly to that page. A more general search for "honda marine hydrofoil" also listed it first.

http://www.honda-marine.com/catalog/ml.rka15001.Misc.htm

jimh posted 09-07-2004 09:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Great! I found the hydrofoil for sale by Honda. It is right next to their polypropylene dock lines.
mikeyairtime posted 09-07-2004 08:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for mikeyairtime    
Ever see the episode of Sponge Bob Square Pants where Squidward finally tries a Crabby Patty after hating them for years. He ends up loving them but can't let anyone know. That's why they make clamp on trim plates.
jimh posted 09-07-2004 10:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I have never seen that episode. In fact, I don't even recognize the characters. I guess I am not watching enough television to be able to appreciate hydrofoils. I will add that to the list of characteristics needed to appreciate them.
jimh posted 09-07-2004 10:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Oh--I forgot--where is the link to the Honda website where it talks about putting on the hydrofoil and making the gas mileage improve 40-percent?
mikeyairtime posted 09-07-2004 11:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for mikeyairtime    
Sponge Bob Square Pants and Boston Whalers Boats are two of the finer things in life. As for the mileage unless my boat gets up and flies on the hydrofoil like one of those air chair waterski thingies I don't think I'll be seeing any increase.

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