posted 09-20-2004 05:54 PM ET (US)     

Not being real familar with DFI engines in general, I have two questions to ask:

1. Other than acheiving a 3-star rating, why is an E-TEC 150 going to be better than a 2-star Ficht 150. Except for the DFI technology, it appears the basic engine (block, midsection, lower unit) are all the same.

posted 09-20-2004 06:53 PM ET (US)            

1. The tried-and-true 2-stroke power and performance with emissions that are even less [than] ALL 2-strokes and even lower than some 4-strokes.

2. A low emissions outboard that weighs MUCH less than the 4-strokes.

3. The only outboard that may even come close to E-TEC performance is the Verado--a supercharged 4-stroke. The only other ultra-low emission outboard that can compare.*

*Ultra-low emission (rating) outboards consist of only one 2-stroke model (E-TEC), and all 4-stroke models.

3a: These things are hogs as far as weight goes.

posted 09-20-2004 07:29 PM ET (US)            

Here in California it is all about 3-Star or higher ratings. PERIOD...

Many other lakes around the country are changing their Outboard emission standards and also some states. I believe the E-TEC will be a great choice for people who don't want a 4 stroke.

I am also one of the ones waiting for the E-TEC 150's as I am still not sold on 4 strokes..

posted 09-21-2004 02:17 AM ET (US)            

The on-line version of the magazine discusses both the E-tec and the Verado motors this month. Pretty good information on both.

posted 09-21-2004 10:42 AM ET (US)            

2. I would expect the performance of the E-TEC 150, for example, to be at least as good as the current DI 150. I have not read any reports that suggest that the current DI 150 is not just as good a performer as the Optimax or HPDI or any of the 150 4-strokes. But if and when you compare 150s at the 3-star level, the OPTIMAX and the HPDI completely drop out of the running, leaving only the 2-stroke Evinrude to beat up on the much heavier 4-strokes. No one yet knows what the 150 Verado will do or weigh but if it is anything like the 6 cylinder Verado, it will be heavier than a comparable 2-stroke and have poor fuel consumption at WOT as compared to the normally aspirated 4-stroke or 2-stroke DI, which I think should be important to the bass boat market.

With regard to success in the marketplace, I think you can't judge success by looking at one market region. In my area, Evinrude has done pretty well to capture marketshare over the last couple of years given that the brand had a major set back in 2001.

posted 09-21-2004 04:54 PM ET (US)         

What is curious is whether Yamaha and Mercury can or will bring the 150-HP and up DFI engines to 3-star. Mercury now has the 3-star 2008 California market covered across the board, with conventional 4-strokes, mid-range Optimax, and now Verado, I wonder whether they will just abandon that one market with 150 Optimax and up? For the rest of the country, only 2-star is required for the forseeable future, so the 150 and up Opti's would be fine.

posted 09-21-2004 08:40 PM ET (US)            

--lower fuel consumption;

--lower maintenance requirements;

--lower sound levels.

The electrical power management also seems to be better engineered with the E-TEC. They do not need much battery power to start or run. This is in contrast to the Optimax, which needs significant battery power to operate, so much so that I believe the standard recommended installation for them is two, large, Group-28 batteries.

posted 09-21-2004 09:40 PM ET (US)            

1000 (minimum) Marine Cranking Amps
750 (Minimum) Cold Cranking Amps
105 (Minimum) Amp Hours

I'm using a single Group 24 battery without difficulty. When I first got the Opti last year, my dealer gave me a battery rated at 575 MCAs and it wouldn't start the Opti twice. Over the winter he replaced it with the larger battery.

posted 09-21-2004 11:10 PM ET (US)            

The remarkable simplicity of the E-TEC engine also speaks to its favor. There are no belts driving pumps or alternators. There are no dual overhead camshafts. There are not four valves per cylinder. There are not triple cam lobes for the intake valves and double cam lobes for the output valves for each cylinder. (That is five cam lobes per cylinder, times six cylinders, plus the hydraulic linkage to activate them = Variable Valve Timing as used on the Honda four-strokes.)

The only danger with the E-TEC--and this applies to all of the two-stroke low-emission engines--is the potential for lean burning in the combustion chamber to drive cylinder temperatures too high. And without an oil sump and circulating oil cooling to draw off some of that heat, there is the potential for damage to the piston from too high cylinder temperature. But this problem looms with all the low-emission two-strokes. It is one area that favors the four-stroke engines. Their emission control has been already engineered by automotive engine builders twenty years ago.

Bombardier says they have new metal alloys for the pistons to operate in higher temperatures.

Really, all these new technologies look great on paper. In a PDF-document they all work perfectly. What remains to be seen is how the E-TEC works on the transom. Will it run with that low oiling rate of 1:100? Will it go three years without scheduled maintenance?

posted 09-22-2004 07:56 AM ET (US)            

If I understand some of the arguments I've heard correctly, to get the 4-stroke CO and NOx emissions levels down to what they are in the E-TEC using XD-100, the 4-strokes may need to use an automotive style three-way catalytic converter. So is that where the 4-stroke is headed if and when the emissions noose on CO and NOx is made tighter? If so, where will they put it? How will they keep it hot to do its job and yet protect against injury? How much more bulk and weight will it add to the 4-stroke?

posted 09-28-2004 08:18 AM ET (US)            

Some other considerations in the modern two-stroke:

--fewer moving parts than a four-stroke;
--lubricating oil is always fresh oil, not recirculating sump.

On the other hand:

--two-stroke cylinders have ported walls, which reduce bearing surface.

The big question--and this is a really big question: can the modern low-emission, 3-star compliant two-stroke demonstrate long-term durability?

posted 09-28-2004 12:12 PM ET (US)            

But just as in the auto industry outboard mechanics will be replaced by outboard technicians.

Progress ? maybe

posted 09-28-2004 04:02 PM ET (US)            

My Honda and all of their mid range outboards are based on their autmotive engines. I've never had an oil pressure related problem on any of my automobiles ever. Have you?

posted 09-28-2004 05:01 PM ET (US)            

I hope that the new four strokes out today will be as dependable as the car engines they copy. But in the marine enviroment, salt water especially , there may be problems on the way . The other problems may come from lack of use.