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Author Topic:   Premium Plus vs Mercury Oil

highanddry posted 11-05-2004 03:39 AM ET (US)
My dealer told me to use TCW III Premium Plus rated oils. I notice that for example Pennzoil has two oils with that rating. One is synthetic blend and the other is conventional. I also notice the owners manual for my extinct fossil fuel burning dodo bird Optimax (ref another thread) states to use Quicksilver oil but that I can substitute the Premium Plus. Does anyone run Premium Plus oils instead of the Mercury product? J
fishgutz posted 11-05-2004 08:27 AM ET (US)
I was told by a reputable dealer NOT to use Pennzoil. The pro circuit has had more oil related breakdowns with Pennzoil than with any other oil in the past. Quicksilver and Mercury oils are identical. I use whichever I can get on sale. I use the synthetic blend by either brand in a 75 Merc. I'm not sure, I thought YOU had to use "Optimax" oil.
jimh posted 11-05-2004 09:44 AM ET (US)
The mechanic at my Mercury dealership specifically mentioned Pennzoil as a brand to avoid. He said he had worked on engines which had been run on that oil, and he was not impressed. Of course, apply your own discount factor to this advice. When I mentioned WAL-MART brand oil, he just rolled his eyes.
Given the dollar investment in engines, it does seem odd to worry about saving a dollar or two on the oil for each tank of gasoline.
John O posted 11-05-2004 11:02 AM ET (US)
I bought a case of Quicksilver this spring at my local Sams Club for about $11.00 per gallon. Used 2 gallons this season.
John O posted 11-05-2004 11:03 AM ET (US)
$11.87 to be exact
jimp posted 11-05-2004 01:50 PM ET (US)
highanddry -
My 2003 Merc 225 Optimax owner's manual says to use Merc Optimax oil or substitute Merc Premium Plus. It says nothing about other oils. Since my Merc dealer carries Merc Premium Plus in bulk, I buy it at about $13 per gallon.
JimP
highanddry posted 11-05-2004 02:44 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the info, just wanted to check in with you guys on this. My manual does state that TCW III Premium Plus oil can be used. I am looking at it right now. It does seem to be written such as to infer that the Mercury prodcut is preferred.
I bullt and flew a Kitfox aircraft (now building a Vans RV7A) and the Kitfox had a Rotax two stroke engine. Pennzoil two stroke oil was and is highly regarded in the two stroke aircraft engine world. It is not strictly antedotal either as there have been several studies running identical engines set on test stands with various competing oils and the Pennzoil product produced the least carbon/ash and had the best wear characteristics. This is again not antedotal but actual and measureable FACT. Pennzoil actually bought 5 Rotax engines and ran them on a test trailer with competing oils as well and had an independent lab verify results and they were impressive. Therefore, does the info to stay away from Pennzoil have any factual studies to back it up I might reference or just some bass bubbas bad mouthing it--lol---kidding?
I don't use Toyota oil in my Toy, I run Mobil 1 etc, so I just wanted to know what boaters commonly do and it seems that you commonly use the Merc product in Mercs so I guess I will too until I find different info.
There is a lot of smoke and mirrors when it comes to oil, as a mechanic myself I tend to view some claims very skeptical but it also gives me the insight to follow good advice until better comes along. J
rbruce posted 11-06-2004 09:49 PM ET (US)
Pennzoil TCW3 is made by Royal Dutch Shell...
I rather use OEM motor oil in a new motor. Optimax oil is a semi synthetic blend and as far as I remember, it is not NMMA TCW3 rated. On Saltwater Magazine article on motor oils, Mercury stated that it's Optimax motor oil was many times superior than TCW3 ratings!
ROTAX engines require a special oil. I think it is called XD-100 and it was not even TCW3 rated. I wouldn't use Pennzoil nor any other brand of oil in such an engine specially for warranty purposes and long term longevity of this engine.
The Saltwater Magazine article was in here: www.saltwatersportsman.com/saltwater/gear_elec/article/0,12746,191298,00.html

Regards,
RBruce
highanddry posted 11-07-2004 11:35 AM ET (US)
"ROTAX engines require a special oil. I think it is called XD-100 and it was not even TCW3 rated. I wouldn't use Pennzoil nor any other brand of oil in such an engine specially for warranty purposes and long term longevity of this engine."
I was speaking of their aviation products and the Pennzoil product was the "Aircooled" two-stroke oil and not the TCW product even though the aviation engines are liquid cooled the temps they operate at are more in line with aircooled engines. I put 600 hours on my Kitfox crossing the Rockies twice. I also am a certified Rotax tech for their av prodcuts and a A&P so I do tend to read manuals and tech bulletins and was just wondering if such exited on the Mercs etc. No big deal. Thanks. J
rbruce posted 11-07-2004 05:33 PM ET (US)
Highanddry: Could you confirm if ROTAX OEM oil is XD-100 and if in their service bulletins they expressly authorize Pennzoil synthetic for TC application? I would kindly appreciate any correction!
highanddry posted 11-07-2004 08:17 PM ET (US)
rbruce,
I was using the av engine example to find out if anyone new of some non antedotal studies, bulletins etc on Merc engines and oil choices. Rotax aviation products and the tech school I attended are not transferrable directly to their marine products such as jet skis and their jet boats whci I assume is your interest. The aviation engines essentially have no warranty with the exception of their 4 cylinder opposed 4-cycles--912/914/912S. These have factory recommendations to use Castroil GTX and Mobil 1 depending on if using auto fuel or av fuel which contains lead. The synthetic oils cannot suspend and disperse lead! Several oils incluiding Pennzoil for Aircooled Engines are acceptable for use in the Rotax 582, 503 etc--for av use. As I stated, antedotal heresay aside, fact is the Pennzoil did very well in these engines. I would not however run out and switch oils because what works with one application--aviation use engines-- may in fact be horrible in a marine use engine however outwardly similar they appear. Hope I did not confuse you or cause a problem.
I figure there is a better product out there than the Merc oil and probably at a lower price but until I see a reasonable data set to confirm it I imagine the safe bet is the Merc product. J
jimh posted 11-08-2004 01:15 AM ET (US)
Is there really such a thing as an industry designation of rating as
"TCW-III Premium Plus" ?
seahorse posted 11-08-2004 06:49 AM ET (US)
"PREMIUM PLUS" is only a name that both Mercury (Quicksilver) and Pennzoil use on their better oils.
The TC-W3 specs only call for meeting the requirements and tests of the NMMA reference oil that is used as a standard. It is a pass-fail situation.
jimh posted 11-08-2004 08:19 PM ET (US)
After poking around the web for a few minutes, I came up with the same conclusion. So when someone says:
"My dealer told me to use TCW III Premium Plus rated oils,"
their dealer is really talking nonsense. There is no such thing as a TCW-III Premium Plus rated oil.
highanddry posted 11-09-2004 12:22 PM ET (US)
Yep, that is what my dealer told me and that is why I started this thread because I figured there is no such spec.
On the other hand Merc does not have a refinery out behind their block casting facility either so I also figure someone markets the same oils they sale with their brandname under another brand name. Would'nt it just be a bust if we find out they get their oil from Pennzoil. Now, I realize they probably don't but they get it somewhere because they ain't drilling their own wells. They provide a spec and some other company whose buisness is oil provides them the product and Merc probably goes with the low bidder. Sooooo, I guess what I really want to know is what is that SPEC and then we can see what other oils meet that spec?--maybe. My bet, from experience as a mechanic and with everything from motorcycles to airplanes to tractors there is a better prodcut out there for less money. J
rbruce posted 11-09-2004 01:41 PM ET (US)
Mercury nor anyother OEM refines its oil except for probably Vespa, Fiat, Alfa-Romeo, Lancia, Masseratti which are part of the Fiat group in Italy. Fiat group owns the AGIP-ENI refineries and sell their Selenia oil brands and recommend exclusively for their products these oils, however, the OEM's such as BRP, Mercury, Yamaha, they can specifiy the additives and the proportions of these additives that will prolong the engine life and keep a loyal customer base that will swear by their products, durability and performance. The bean counter has to agree with this before slashing costs and buying the cheapest stock.
Therefore, I would say that there are indeed Premium Plus TCW-3 oils and these oils are either part synthetic such as Bombardier's XD-100 or RAM-Ficht motor oil with additives to curtail carbon build up or Mercury's Optimax oil that I have discovered that are TCW-3 certified now. These oil are intended to specific motors, however, now that they are TCW-3 certified they can be used in carbureted two stroke motors without question or doubt.
Regards,
Robert
gss036 posted 11-09-2004 01:58 PM ET (US)
I have followed several forums on 2 stroke oil over the years and have a good education on 2 stroke oils. When I first bought my 1989 Merc 200 (new) I also bought several 21/2 gal containers of Mercury oil because they gave me such a good price. I remember the Mercury oil had an amonia smell to it. I don't know about now because I have not used it in several years. My 200 blew a powerhead (rod through the block) at 13 months and 140 hours using the Mercury oil. Mecury would not stand behind the motor, so I was stuck with the bill. I quit using thier oil (sold the remaining oil I had at that time) and went to ESSO/EXXON, which was red, I then switched to Texaco and Penzoil which was/is blue like the Mercury oil.. None of these oils had the amonia smell like Mercury had, but my motor is still running strong after all these years, so I don't buy into OEM oil usage.
I am now using the Penzoil Prem +, which is a synthetic blend. Dutch Royal Shell makes the Texaco, Shell and Penzoil and maybe even Wal-Mart, have never used it.
Just my 2 cents on the subject.
rbruce posted 11-09-2004 10:40 PM ET (US)
It's a sad story to hear that they left you alone to pick up the bill, however, what was the culprit of this sudden powerhead death? What did Mercury had to say, did you mail corporate headquarters?
jimh posted 11-10-2004 12:47 AM ET (US)
I think it is clear that many OEM oils are branded with names like "premium" or "premium plus", but the point is that there is no industry certified category in the TCW-III rating that distinguishes this oil from other TCW-III rated oils. It is a branding label, not an industry rating.
rbruce posted 11-10-2004 08:09 AM ET (US)
Jim:
I don't think you can lie in a label in the USA nor in Costa Rica for that matter. You can call something premium and if it isn't it will be sooner than later that your consumers will point their finger at it.
The API doesn't certifiy synthetic motor oils as such with a different classification and there is some latitude as to what a synthetic is, but I would rather say that most consumers know about two or three things about synthetics as some manufacturers like Daimler Chrysler, Porsche and Chevrolet recommend to use synthetics in their products.
Bombardier Recreational Products recommends the use of a TCW-3 motor oil in their innovative E-Tec motor, but when you choose to use their 100% synthetic XD-100 they will reprogram the CPU in the motor to use less oil up to 40% less.
The bottom line, this has to be a really Premium motor oil to allow less of it and provide ample protection for this motor. Mercury will not force you to use their Optimax DFI oil in their HPDI motors, however, their oil is engineered for these engines that put too much stress and temperature in the components of the motor.
Truth in advertising or not, I believe that from a major brand, OEM source there is nothing to loose if one chooses to believe it. And for those of us that don't the other manufacturers being that Royal Dutch Shell, Pennzoil, et al, there are premium and super premium motor oils to choose from.
Will we ever have a TCW-4 standard? I don't know.
LHG posted 11-10-2004 01:44 PM ET (US)
Walmart's TCW-3 is made by Pennzoil. It looks an awful lot like Mercury's lowest grade TCW-3 oil, but not the "Premium Plus" line.
As a result of the OMC bankruptcy and creditor listings, it became apparent that OMC oils were made by Ashland Oil Co, up on the shore of Lake Superior in Wisconsin. I think it's reasonable to assume that Bombardier, and now BRP, has continued with them?
jimh posted 11-20-2004 02:20 PM ET (US)
All OEM-branded oils from outboard makers are blended by somebody else, usually an oil refiner who specializes in that business, and it would come as no surprise to find that the same specialty refiner might make oils for several more famous brands.
Selling outboard manufacturer branded oil is good for the dealer's business. Most of the outboard guys protect their dealers and don't sell their brands into big discount retailers like WAL-MART. Sometimes you see it, but it is not always on the shelf.
I look at it like this: if I drop in at my local dealer and buy a couple of gallons of his outboard manufacturer branded oil, I get a chance to look around and see what's new in the store, shoot the breeze with the guys, maybe learn something interesting, have a cup of coffee, see the new motors, etc. Over the course of the boating season I probably only buy about six gallons of oil--that's enough to burn 300 gallons of gasoline, which is plenty of boating for most people in a season.
I like to buy from the bulk tank and refill my containers. That saves money and also saves plastic containers from the landfill. The price differential between buying the branded oil this way versus buying the no-brand oil at the discount retail store is only about $5/gallon. The effect on the cost of owning my boat is miniscule. Maybe $30 a year. That is nothing. I often spend three times that much in gasoline in my truck just hauling the boat to the water before I even begin to use it.
I have used plenty of oil from WALMART, too. It seems to work fine, too, which is as it should be since it is a TCW-III rated product.
I like rbruce's point on the Evinrude XD-100 rated oil: they have enough faith in it that they'll reduce the oiling ratio in their E-TEC. For that oil, the higher cost is repaid in lower consumption. I guess the other oils you have to take it on faith that a higher price will produce a benefit.
rbruce posted 11-21-2004 10:37 AM ET (US)
We would like to see less carbon build up, more protection at WOT and finally we would like to see E-TEC's and HPDI prosper and offer a competitive option to four stroke motors that add unwanted weight and operational complication.
Dae posted 10-22-2006 03:43 PM ET (US)
Folks,
Sorry to bring this thread back from it's death but I noticed people saying there was no such thing as a premium rated TCW3 oil. Well there is. It's the TCW3 "RL". "RL" TCW3 oils are a higher grade of TCW3.
- Dae
jimh posted 10-22-2006 08:22 PM ET (US)
Sorry to put this discussion back to sleep. Two years ago that was interesting information.

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Author	Topic: Premium Plus vs Mercury Oil
highanddry	posted 11-05-2004 03:39 AM ET (US) My dealer told me to use TCW III Premium Plus rated oils. I notice that for example Pennzoil has two oils with that rating. One is synthetic blend and the other is conventional. I also notice the owners manual for my extinct fossil fuel burning dodo bird Optimax (ref another thread) states to use Quicksilver oil but that I can substitute the Premium Plus. Does anyone run Premium Plus oils instead of the Mercury product? J
fishgutz	posted 11-05-2004 08:27 AM ET (US) I was told by a reputable dealer NOT to use Pennzoil. The pro circuit has had more oil related breakdowns with Pennzoil than with any other oil in the past. Quicksilver and Mercury oils are identical. I use whichever I can get on sale. I use the synthetic blend by either brand in a 75 Merc. I'm not sure, I thought YOU had to use "Optimax" oil.
jimh	posted 11-05-2004 09:44 AM ET (US) The mechanic at my Mercury dealership specifically mentioned Pennzoil as a brand to avoid. He said he had worked on engines which had been run on that oil, and he was not impressed. Of course, apply your own discount factor to this advice. When I mentioned WAL-MART brand oil, he just rolled his eyes. Given the dollar investment in engines, it does seem odd to worry about saving a dollar or two on the oil for each tank of gasoline.
John O	posted 11-05-2004 11:02 AM ET (US) I bought a case of Quicksilver this spring at my local Sams Club for about $11.00 per gallon. Used 2 gallons this season.
John O	posted 11-05-2004 11:03 AM ET (US) $11.87 to be exact
jimp	posted 11-05-2004 01:50 PM ET (US) highanddry - My 2003 Merc 225 Optimax owner's manual says to use Merc Optimax oil or substitute Merc Premium Plus. It says nothing about other oils. Since my Merc dealer carries Merc Premium Plus in bulk, I buy it at about $13 per gallon. JimP
highanddry	posted 11-05-2004 02:44 PM ET (US) Thanks for the info, just wanted to check in with you guys on this. My manual does state that TCW III Premium Plus oil can be used. I am looking at it right now. It does seem to be written such as to infer that the Mercury prodcut is preferred. I bullt and flew a Kitfox aircraft (now building a Vans RV7A) and the Kitfox had a Rotax two stroke engine. Pennzoil two stroke oil was and is highly regarded in the two stroke aircraft engine world. It is not strictly antedotal either as there have been several studies running identical engines set on test stands with various competing oils and the Pennzoil product produced the least carbon/ash and had the best wear characteristics. This is again not antedotal but actual and measureable FACT. Pennzoil actually bought 5 Rotax engines and ran them on a test trailer with competing oils as well and had an independent lab verify results and they were impressive. Therefore, does the info to stay away from Pennzoil have any factual studies to back it up I might reference or just some bass bubbas bad mouthing it--lol---kidding? I don't use Toyota oil in my Toy, I run Mobil 1 etc, so I just wanted to know what boaters commonly do and it seems that you commonly use the Merc product in Mercs so I guess I will too until I find different info. There is a lot of smoke and mirrors when it comes to oil, as a mechanic myself I tend to view some claims very skeptical but it also gives me the insight to follow good advice until better comes along. J
rbruce	posted 11-06-2004 09:49 PM ET (US) Pennzoil TCW3 is made by Royal Dutch Shell... I rather use OEM motor oil in a new motor. Optimax oil is a semi synthetic blend and as far as I remember, it is not NMMA TCW3 rated. On Saltwater Magazine article on motor oils, Mercury stated that it's Optimax motor oil was many times superior than TCW3 ratings! ROTAX engines require a special oil. I think it is called XD-100 and it was not even TCW3 rated. I wouldn't use Pennzoil nor any other brand of oil in such an engine specially for warranty purposes and long term longevity of this engine. The Saltwater Magazine article was in here: www.saltwatersportsman.com/saltwater/gear_elec/article/0,12746,191298,00.html Regards, RBruce
highanddry	posted 11-07-2004 11:35 AM ET (US) "ROTAX engines require a special oil. I think it is called XD-100 and it was not even TCW3 rated. I wouldn't use Pennzoil nor any other brand of oil in such an engine specially for warranty purposes and long term longevity of this engine." I was speaking of their aviation products and the Pennzoil product was the "Aircooled" two-stroke oil and not the TCW product even though the aviation engines are liquid cooled the temps they operate at are more in line with aircooled engines. I put 600 hours on my Kitfox crossing the Rockies twice. I also am a certified Rotax tech for their av prodcuts and a A&P so I do tend to read manuals and tech bulletins and was just wondering if such exited on the Mercs etc. No big deal. Thanks. J
rbruce	posted 11-07-2004 05:33 PM ET (US) Highanddry: Could you confirm if ROTAX OEM oil is XD-100 and if in their service bulletins they expressly authorize Pennzoil synthetic for TC application? I would kindly appreciate any correction!
highanddry	posted 11-07-2004 08:17 PM ET (US) rbruce, I was using the av engine example to find out if anyone new of some non antedotal studies, bulletins etc on Merc engines and oil choices. Rotax aviation products and the tech school I attended are not transferrable directly to their marine products such as jet skis and their jet boats whci I assume is your interest. The aviation engines essentially have no warranty with the exception of their 4 cylinder opposed 4-cycles--912/914/912S. These have factory recommendations to use Castroil GTX and Mobil 1 depending on if using auto fuel or av fuel which contains lead. The synthetic oils cannot suspend and disperse lead! Several oils incluiding Pennzoil for Aircooled Engines are acceptable for use in the Rotax 582, 503 etc--for av use. As I stated, antedotal heresay aside, fact is the Pennzoil did very well in these engines. I would not however run out and switch oils because what works with one application--aviation use engines-- may in fact be horrible in a marine use engine however outwardly similar they appear. Hope I did not confuse you or cause a problem. I figure there is a better product out there than the Merc oil and probably at a lower price but until I see a reasonable data set to confirm it I imagine the safe bet is the Merc product. J
jimh	posted 11-08-2004 01:15 AM ET (US) Is there really such a thing as an industry designation of rating as "TCW-III Premium Plus" ?
seahorse	posted 11-08-2004 06:49 AM ET (US) "PREMIUM PLUS" is only a name that both Mercury (Quicksilver) and Pennzoil use on their better oils. The TC-W3 specs only call for meeting the requirements and tests of the NMMA reference oil that is used as a standard. It is a pass-fail situation.
jimh	posted 11-08-2004 08:19 PM ET (US) After poking around the web for a few minutes, I came up with the same conclusion. So when someone says: "My dealer told me to use TCW III Premium Plus rated oils," their dealer is really talking nonsense. There is no such thing as a TCW-III Premium Plus rated oil.
highanddry	posted 11-09-2004 12:22 PM ET (US) Yep, that is what my dealer told me and that is why I started this thread because I figured there is no such spec. On the other hand Merc does not have a refinery out behind their block casting facility either so I also figure someone markets the same oils they sale with their brandname under another brand name. Would'nt it just be a bust if we find out they get their oil from Pennzoil. Now, I realize they probably don't but they get it somewhere because they ain't drilling their own wells. They provide a spec and some other company whose buisness is oil provides them the product and Merc probably goes with the low bidder. Sooooo, I guess what I really want to know is what is that SPEC and then we can see what other oils meet that spec?--maybe. My bet, from experience as a mechanic and with everything from motorcycles to airplanes to tractors there is a better prodcut out there for less money. J
rbruce	posted 11-09-2004 01:41 PM ET (US) Mercury nor anyother OEM refines its oil except for probably Vespa, Fiat, Alfa-Romeo, Lancia, Masseratti which are part of the Fiat group in Italy. Fiat group owns the AGIP-ENI refineries and sell their Selenia oil brands and recommend exclusively for their products these oils, however, the OEM's such as BRP, Mercury, Yamaha, they can specifiy the additives and the proportions of these additives that will prolong the engine life and keep a loyal customer base that will swear by their products, durability and performance. The bean counter has to agree with this before slashing costs and buying the cheapest stock. Therefore, I would say that there are indeed Premium Plus TCW-3 oils and these oils are either part synthetic such as Bombardier's XD-100 or RAM-Ficht motor oil with additives to curtail carbon build up or Mercury's Optimax oil that I have discovered that are TCW-3 certified now. These oil are intended to specific motors, however, now that they are TCW-3 certified they can be used in carbureted two stroke motors without question or doubt. Regards, Robert
gss036	posted 11-09-2004 01:58 PM ET (US) I have followed several forums on 2 stroke oil over the years and have a good education on 2 stroke oils. When I first bought my 1989 Merc 200 (new) I also bought several 21/2 gal containers of Mercury oil because they gave me such a good price. I remember the Mercury oil had an amonia smell to it. I don't know about now because I have not used it in several years. My 200 blew a powerhead (rod through the block) at 13 months and 140 hours using the Mercury oil. Mecury would not stand behind the motor, so I was stuck with the bill. I quit using thier oil (sold the remaining oil I had at that time) and went to ESSO/EXXON, which was red, I then switched to Texaco and Penzoil which was/is blue like the Mercury oil.. None of these oils had the amonia smell like Mercury had, but my motor is still running strong after all these years, so I don't buy into OEM oil usage. I am now using the Penzoil Prem +, which is a synthetic blend. Dutch Royal Shell makes the Texaco, Shell and Penzoil and maybe even Wal-Mart, have never used it. Just my 2 cents on the subject.
rbruce	posted 11-09-2004 10:40 PM ET (US) It's a sad story to hear that they left you alone to pick up the bill, however, what was the culprit of this sudden powerhead death? What did Mercury had to say, did you mail corporate headquarters?
jimh	posted 11-10-2004 12:47 AM ET (US) I think it is clear that many OEM oils are branded with names like "premium" or "premium plus", but the point is that there is no industry certified category in the TCW-III rating that distinguishes this oil from other TCW-III rated oils. It is a branding label, not an industry rating.
rbruce	posted 11-10-2004 08:09 AM ET (US) Jim: I don't think you can lie in a label in the USA nor in Costa Rica for that matter. You can call something premium and if it isn't it will be sooner than later that your consumers will point their finger at it. The API doesn't certifiy synthetic motor oils as such with a different classification and there is some latitude as to what a synthetic is, but I would rather say that most consumers know about two or three things about synthetics as some manufacturers like Daimler Chrysler, Porsche and Chevrolet recommend to use synthetics in their products. Bombardier Recreational Products recommends the use of a TCW-3 motor oil in their innovative E-Tec motor, but when you choose to use their 100% synthetic XD-100 they will reprogram the CPU in the motor to use less oil up to 40% less. The bottom line, this has to be a really Premium motor oil to allow less of it and provide ample protection for this motor. Mercury will not force you to use their Optimax DFI oil in their HPDI motors, however, their oil is engineered for these engines that put too much stress and temperature in the components of the motor. Truth in advertising or not, I believe that from a major brand, OEM source there is nothing to loose if one chooses to believe it. And for those of us that don't the other manufacturers being that Royal Dutch Shell, Pennzoil, et al, there are premium and super premium motor oils to choose from. Will we ever have a TCW-4 standard? I don't know.
LHG	posted 11-10-2004 01:44 PM ET (US) Walmart's TCW-3 is made by Pennzoil. It looks an awful lot like Mercury's lowest grade TCW-3 oil, but not the "Premium Plus" line. As a result of the OMC bankruptcy and creditor listings, it became apparent that OMC oils were made by Ashland Oil Co, up on the shore of Lake Superior in Wisconsin. I think it's reasonable to assume that Bombardier, and now BRP, has continued with them?
jimh	posted 11-20-2004 02:20 PM ET (US) All OEM-branded oils from outboard makers are blended by somebody else, usually an oil refiner who specializes in that business, and it would come as no surprise to find that the same specialty refiner might make oils for several more famous brands. Selling outboard manufacturer branded oil is good for the dealer's business. Most of the outboard guys protect their dealers and don't sell their brands into big discount retailers like WAL-MART. Sometimes you see it, but it is not always on the shelf. I look at it like this: if I drop in at my local dealer and buy a couple of gallons of his outboard manufacturer branded oil, I get a chance to look around and see what's new in the store, shoot the breeze with the guys, maybe learn something interesting, have a cup of coffee, see the new motors, etc. Over the course of the boating season I probably only buy about six gallons of oil--that's enough to burn 300 gallons of gasoline, which is plenty of boating for most people in a season. I like to buy from the bulk tank and refill my containers. That saves money and also saves plastic containers from the landfill. The price differential between buying the branded oil this way versus buying the no-brand oil at the discount retail store is only about $5/gallon. The effect on the cost of owning my boat is miniscule. Maybe $30 a year. That is nothing. I often spend three times that much in gasoline in my truck just hauling the boat to the water before I even begin to use it. I have used plenty of oil from WALMART, too. It seems to work fine, too, which is as it should be since it is a TCW-III rated product. I like rbruce's point on the Evinrude XD-100 rated oil: they have enough faith in it that they'll reduce the oiling ratio in their E-TEC. For that oil, the higher cost is repaid in lower consumption. I guess the other oils you have to take it on faith that a higher price will produce a benefit.
rbruce	posted 11-21-2004 10:37 AM ET (US) We would like to see less carbon build up, more protection at WOT and finally we would like to see E-TEC's and HPDI prosper and offer a competitive option to four stroke motors that add unwanted weight and operational complication.
Dae	posted 10-22-2006 03:43 PM ET (US) Folks, Sorry to bring this thread back from it's death but I noticed people saying there was no such thing as a premium rated TCW3 oil. Well there is. It's the TCW3 "RL". "RL" TCW3 oils are a higher grade of TCW3. - Dae
jimh	posted 10-22-2006 08:22 PM ET (US) Sorry to put this discussion back to sleep. Two years ago that was interesting information.