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Author Topic:   Johnson or Yamaha

zotcha posted 12-07-2004 03:52 PM ET (US)
Repower prices for 15' sport. Yamaha 2 Stroke '05 70 hp. $4899 plus $850 prop, sidemount controls, and multifunction guage. Total $5750. Includes 2 year factory warranty. $850 additional three year. And I understand extended warranty almost never used.
Located 2000 Johnson 70 hp. approximately 50 hours (one season) repowered with 4 Stroke. Looks mint. $3999 plus $250 shipping Wisconsin to So. Carolina. $4250 total. Includes new oil tank, pre-sized new shift/throttle cables and new sidemount control. Obviously no warranty. NADA $2655-3160. All input appreciated.
Seller does not seem motivated even though he could not return my call for 30 min. because he was out plowing!
hauptjm posted 12-07-2004 04:22 PM ET (US)
Sounds like the Johnson is overpriced.
LHG posted 12-07-2004 04:56 PM ET (US)
On the Yamaha, the re-rigging package is too high.
I would buy the engine from the guy, and have him bolt it on. Separately purchase and install the side mount control for about $300 max, pick up $40 worth of control cables, and buy your own needed Teleflex gauges, forgetting that expensive multi-function thing. Purchase the SS prop of your choice from a catalog or on-line house.
The only problem with the Yamaha 70 is that it has out of date, puny, 6 amp charging at full throttle! It's also a little light on cubes in comparison to other brands, more like a 60 or 65 horse engine. For a couple of hundred more, you could get a Merc or Yamaha (same engine) 60 EFI 4-stroke and probably go just as fast.
I would not buy the OMC engine, although an excellent performer, since it does not have the engine mounted oil tank that Merc and Yamaha have. A separate oil tank in a 15 is not very desireable.
Buckda posted 12-07-2004 05:12 PM ET (US)
Agreed..go with the Yamaha...but 850 for a prop is $$$.
RJG posted 12-07-2004 06:19 PM ET (US)
Buy the Yamaha. That is a very good price. I agree with LHG and would have the seller bolt it on. The rest is easy. My 13 year old son and I repowered his 13 last summer with a Yamaha 40. Everything just plugs in. Bought the control box from the dealer and everything else at West Marine.
zotcha posted 12-07-2004 06:39 PM ET (US)
Thanks guys. Dealer in Fla. says he can beat the Yamaha price by $50 but that he has to install it or it will not be warranteed.?. Another firefighter here in the area bought a one season old Suzuki and now has no warrantee for same reason. He is not happy at all.
Buckda, $850 includes SS prop, sidemount control, cables, and multifunction guage. Pretty competitive so far. I can get them all at, or just above cost in Jersey, and have them shipped.
LHG, I fully agree except I'm not too excited about the four stroke due to the added weight. The boat never stays in the water. My Seacraft sits low enough in the a$$ with a two stroke and it's just not a comfortable feeling. While beached or moored at sandbar, all the water in the well really makes my empties float around, make noise, and may even attract law enforcement. I would love to have an E-TEC but starting about $6200 just isn't in the budget.
I was not aware that the Yammi only makes 6 amps. Also, the '81 70 hp. was not VRO and I don't mind mixing. I definately will not want that tank on board. Last season, disconnected VRO on '99 175. PITA, but more dependable.
Thanks for the ideas. Difficult decision these days. zotcha.
brisboats posted 12-07-2004 06:48 PM ET (US)
The nod here definately goes to the Yamaha, especially if you can narrow the $1,500 gap. However, if the $850 quoted for the controls, prop and multifunction guage includes rigging that is not a bad price at all. I am partial to the 70hp OMC but that price on a 2000 is too high. FYI Ed's marine is currently selling the Yamaha 70hp loose for $4,299. Ebay usually has new contols selling for $200-300.
The seller on the 2000 70hp should be very motivated at that price. Bottomline 50hrs or not it is still a five year old motor without a warranty and he is asking above what a dealer would sell that motor for with a warranty even if a 30-60 day. Seems like a no brainer here go with the Yamaha. I would skip the $850 extended warrantee IMO if the problem has not surfaced in the two years it isn't going to.
Brian
Buckda posted 12-07-2004 06:59 PM ET (US)
Sorry...I obviously mis-read that..I thought he was trying to charge you 850 for the prop....I'm thinking it better be titanium and one hell of a propeller!
I need to go home and go to bed...I'm clearly not thinking clearly (?!)
Dave
zotcha posted 12-07-2004 07:45 PM ET (US)
In his defense, he did say that he would work with me if any unlikely problems were to surface after delivery after I told him a johnson dealer would be working on the boat. Still, "Out of State, Out of Mind". My mechanic is a friend and endorsed the Yamaha knowing he would lose my business. said years ago, when Johnsons patent ran out, Yammi quickly duplicated three cylinder, and is still suprisingly similar. But then I told him about the'00 and he got really excited! Going to wait a few days and try again. Maybe a member from Wisconsin could let me know of the next snowfall! Thanks. zotcha.
LHG posted 12-07-2004 08:11 PM ET (US)
That's a bunch of garbage about a Yamaha dealer having to install an engine or it would not be warranted, this from someone who has installed 6 big Mercs and received any needed warranty work on any that needed it. Ed's would be out of business under those circumstances. I would not buy anything from an operation that deals that way, simply because it indicates they are not honest.
I'd still go for a Mercury or Yamaha 60 HP EFI 4-stroke over that old, carbureted 2 stroke technology soon to be discontinued. The weight difference is a negligible 20#, and the engines are day and night apart, including more cubes (61 vs 52), and you get a 3 yr warranty instead of a 1 year. You'll get 18 amp charging also. They cost about $5200, and are one of the best mid-sized engines on the market right now. A no brainer to me, pick your color, black or grey
Peter posted 12-07-2004 08:15 PM ET (US)
Go with the Yamaha, its a better value with the warranty. Skip the extra warranty, its not needed. They've been making this motor for nearly 20 years.
I've got a 2003 Yamaha 70 2-stroke (self rigged) on a 15 SuperSport and despite what Larry says on the lack of cubes, the thing goes like a scalded dog. It's very rare that the conditions are flat enough that I can run the motor at WOT.
I wouldn't worry about the 6 amp charging system as you are unlikely to run more than a fishfinder and a GPS at the same time on a 15 foot hull. It's never been a problem for me. Even if the battery died, its a simple motor that you can always pull start.
All the dealer is giving you is about $100 off list for the rigging components so I would take a pass on the controls, prop and gauges and buy them on e-bay for half price unless time is of the essence. If you do go the e-bay route, be careful as I think there are several different kinds of 703s made for different size and different year motors and so.not all 703 controls are compatible with the 70. I believe the 703 control part number that is compatible is 703-48207-17-10. The multi-function gauge is nice but I don't think its really necessary. I use a simple analog Teleflex tachometer.
I used to think that the three cylinder Yamahas were knockoffs of the 3 cylinder Johnson. Actually, when you take a close look at the Yamaha and the Johnson with the cowlings off, they really aren't as similar as you would first think.
wwknapp posted 12-08-2004 01:16 AM ET (US)
There have been quite a few Yamaha analog tachs on ebay recently. Mostly new old stock or used. Several of the ones I checked were the ones for the 2 stroke and had the warning lights. I don't have the newer rigging reference guide, but the 1999 one has a note that you will need a relay for the oil pressure light on the tach.
There are several varieties of cables, make sure you get the right one. There are three different pinout counts, that must match. If it does not have tilt it's probably a 8 pin, tilt is a 10pin. Some new cables have turned up on ebay, I got a new one for my F50 for $25. Part of fixing the mess under the console left when that engine was installed, I assume by a dealer. Before I bought the boat.
If that deal included the keyswitch, that's around $100 or more. And is chosen to match the harness cable. If you can sort out if it's the right one, Yamaha keyswitch panels are on ebay fairly frequently.
You start pricing parts you may find that rigging cost sounds better.
See if you can get a copy from the page that lists the rigging parts from the Quick Reference Engine Rigging Guide. That gives all the part numbers for the rigging stuff. I've got the one that covers my older motors. It's been a big help in checking if a part is the right one.
Walt
zotcha posted 12-08-2004 07:52 AM ET (US)
Walt thanks for the information. Never bought anything from ebay. Not too excited about buying stuff sight unseen from a strsnger (except this '00 Johnson!). Can get rigging for Johnson or Yamaha in Jersey so will probably go that route.

Peter, my last 70 hp. was a "reel screamer" until Labor Day. My brother and I just inherited our fathers Jersey Speed Skiff with a worked Chevy 283 and no transmission. I fully understand Chine Walking! Respect it and enjoy it. We blew the engine back in September and are now looking to replace with a 350ci/350hp.

I would love an E-tec 75 but starting at about $6799, and my brother hot after my half of $5000 for the "Fast Forward" I'm really liking the old Johnson. Feel like I know what I'm getting. I would like to be more environmentally friendly, but am also pretty brand loyal.

I guess I made a poor career choice to support these toys.?. Off for two days, check back with you all on Friday. Thanks for the feedback and experiences, much appreciated. zotcha, standing by.
Peter posted 12-08-2004 09:19 AM ET (US)
Depending on the bottom condition of your 15 (I have not perfectly smooth bottom paint), you should see 42 to 43 MPH with the Yamaha 70 mounted all the way down.
The 703 control comes with the key switch and wiring harness built in.
If you are not in a rush, keep an eye out for the 240 lb 2 cylinder E-TEC 70, which is lighter than the ~ 310 lb 3-cylinder E-TEC 75 which is too heavy for a 15. I believe the E-TEC 70 might become the ultimate clean motor for the classic 15 hull.
RJG posted 12-08-2004 11:27 AM ET (US)
I agree with LHG. I bought my Yamaha 40 from out of state. Dealer sent paper work with motor. I filled it out and sent it in and got my warrantee papers a few weeks later.
The Judge posted 12-08-2004 12:16 PM ET (US)
$3k max on that Johnson unless that was installed with SS prop, controls etc. BS on the warranty as well if you rig yourself. I have owned both 50, 60 & 70hp on 15's and there is very little difference between the 60 & 70hp, I would go with the MErc 60EFI 4 stroke, resale will be there evntually and the quietness is soooooo wonderfull.
c_mccann posted 12-08-2004 02:05 PM ET (US)
I'd stay away from Johnson- the solid performer is Yamaha, proven over and over. Yammie is top of the line, no question, and always a bonus for the resale value. Re-rig is always expensive, I've done it four times... You can rig it yourself, and then have the dealer check the rigging and do the first stary themselves- I did that on my Honda 225 and the warranty was ok with that.
LHG posted 12-08-2004 05:48 PM ET (US)
I'd say that the compact and lightweight Mercury 60 HP EFI 4-stroke is a lot more "top of the line" than that old smokey carbureted Yamaha 2 stroke. Since Yamaha sells the same engine, they may agree also. This 60 could be the ultimate engine for the old Classic 15. And the new supercharged, inherently balanced in-line 6 Verados are more "top of the line" than all of the other V-6 brands put together. Compare, listen and watch, as I have done, out on the water where it counts, and you will agree. They are incredible machines. Keeping this thread "fair and balanced" is important
NausetBoy posted 12-08-2004 06:51 PM ET (US)
As far as smokey old carbureated Yamaha two strokes go they are probably the most relaiable motors out there. The new verados may be a great motor, but with power steering and power shifting, thats more to go wrong in a saltwater enviroment and that goes along with the supercharger too. Its very complicated making it hard to work on. I have a friend with twin yamaha 225 SWSII with 0X66 and they have well over 2000 hours with no rebuild. Not arguing, just my opinion.
c_mccann posted 12-08-2004 08:31 PM ET (US)
I was given 2 chioces, yammie and Johnson. I wouldn't trust a johnson for even a tire block, and yammies are good motors. Now that we've opened it up to Merc's, yes, they are good motors, notwithstanding the problems they have had with the Optimax line and I'm a big fan of 4-strokes, no matter the brand. To go even further, how about Honda?? I have had great success with my hondas and vote for them over all others. Simple, rugged, proven. I think you'll have a problem with access to certain waters in the future with 2-strokes, especially carbed ones, so plan ahead on that one. If you want to save $$, look into re-conditioned or slightly used Hondas and Mercs, they are used widely amongst rental outfits and recons are widely available at dealers.
The Judge posted 12-09-2004 11:27 AM ET (US)
I agree to stay away from OMC but not Johnson nor Evinrude(post 2001). That 2000 Johnson was built by OMC when they were on top of the dung pile as far as quality goes. Now as far as Yamaha being the performance leader over the Johnson 70hp on a classic 15, I will put my $$ on a Johnson any day. The 70 yammie is nice but they do not have the balls the johnsons do. Again don't get me wrong, I love all the brands but the 70 & 90hp Yammies are weak performance wise compared to their competition.
happypappy posted 12-09-2004 10:28 PM ET (US)
The OMC 3-cylinder engines were hard to beat. The engine you are talking about is a 56 cu. in. engine (up from the older 49 cu. in.) and has a ton of bottom end and great top end power as well. The 3-Cyl Johnson and Evinrude engines have always enjoyed a stellar reputation for bulletproof longevity and constant performance.
SWarren posted 12-10-2004 10:40 AM ET (US)
Go see William at Plantation Marine in Walterboro. He is a suzuki, honda and Yamaha dealer. He will get you some real good prices on repower. He said Honda is much lower than Yam and suzuki right now. Being in Bluffton you are pretty close.
zotcha posted 12-10-2004 08:29 PM ET (US)
Wow!!! Almost overwhelming! Great information all the way around. Liking the idea of 4 stroke after all of this. Personally I have a hard time purchasing an engine that is not the maximum rated horsepower, but quite a few state not much difference in results of the new 60's. Interesting. Especially if rated at foot is comparible(sp?) to '81 70 rated at powerhead. Would like to test ride a 4 stroke 60 Merc..
Local dealer confirmed I can buy any brand, hang and rig it myself, as long as factory dealer completes original inspection, signs off and completes warranty information.
Swarren, thanks for the local knowledge. Haven't considered Honda yet, but am aware of their dependability. Thought they may have been more expensive, still learning.
Pete, the bottom is in Very Good condition and has never been painted. It has seen a lot of time beached at the local sand bar commonly known as the "Redneck Riviera". Hoping to start a full recondition SOON. Can't decide if I want to replace rubrail or not. Will test nav lights to determine? Thinking wet sand, compound and wax one to two times. Wood will take the longest. Going with factory mahogoney and X coats of spar. Think I can have it completed by Feb. 7 for trip to the FlaKeys?
Thank you all-have a great weekend. zotcha.
zotcha posted 12-13-2004 07:42 AM ET (US)
What do you think of an '04 E-tec 90 brand new in a crate for $6000? Won last season during an SKA Tournament and right here in Charleston SC.. Would it be nuts to even consider this engine for a 15'? zotcha.
Peter posted 12-13-2004 08:08 AM ET (US)
Yes, its too heavy for the 15.
erik selis posted 12-13-2004 08:43 AM ET (US)
We have a Merc 60-hp 4-stroke EFI on a 17-ft Alert. It is the most reliable, quiet and clean engine I have ever had the opertunity to use. I have no doubt the Yamaha 60 4-stroke EFI would have the same qualities.
Erik
zotcha posted 12-13-2004 03:06 PM ET (US)
O.K. What do you all think of this? 2005 4 Stroke EFI Yamaha 60?
$ 5629 (in a crate) Custom Marine Statesboro Ga.
$ 300 Multifunction Digital Tach (or $102 Anolog oil
and water pressure idiot lights)
$ 225 Side Mount Control
$ 262 Stainless Steel Prop (Yamaha)
$ 25 Yamaha Cables
------
$ 6441
Best deal I've found so far. Am I on the right track?
c_mccann posted 12-13-2004 05:55 PM ET (US)
I'd say so, that thing'll outlast you, can the existing steering be mounted on your motor? I assume it is cable steering. Be sure to clean the stering rod very well before installing, it'll already be pulled off so you can clean it well- carb cleaner or laquer thinner and some disposable towels will do the trick. Another thing is to cover the whole motor well- yammies are a dark color, and they fade and check up easily when left out. A local canvas shop can make you a good fitting cover for about $50. that'll keep it cosmeticaly good for a long time.
zotcha posted 12-13-2004 06:08 PM ET (US)
c-mccann I'm ass*u*ming the steering will swap over, but not real sure. I believe it all to be 1981(factory original) so would not be surprised if I had some upgrading to do there as well. Really did not want to go Merc. so this may be the way to go. Was hoping for some more feedback from the forum. Thanks, zotcha.
LHG posted 12-13-2004 06:34 PM ET (US)
I think you're on the right track, and you might contact infrequent Forum participant Paul Mucciolo who has had a 15 with a Yamaha 60 4-stroke on it, I believe.
I hate to tell you this, considering you didn't want to go Merc, but that's exactly what you've done, since they make that powerhead for Yamaha! All of the Mercury/Yamaha engines, no matter who made the powerhead, seem to be excellent products in both grey and black.
c_mccann posted 12-13-2004 08:54 PM ET (US)
If it is cable/steering rod type that goes through the tilt tube, it should fit no problem. Yammie has been pretty good with their warranties, that is the main point of buying a new outboard- they would never sell a product that they could not afford to warrant.
NausetBoy posted 12-14-2004 08:01 AM ET (US)
LHG, I think its the other way around, Yamaha makes the powerhead for Merc?

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Author	Topic: Johnson or Yamaha
zotcha	posted 12-07-2004 03:52 PM ET (US) Repower prices for 15' sport. Yamaha 2 Stroke '05 70 hp. $4899 plus $850 prop, sidemount controls, and multifunction guage. Total $5750. Includes 2 year factory warranty. $850 additional three year. And I understand extended warranty almost never used. Located 2000 Johnson 70 hp. approximately 50 hours (one season) repowered with 4 Stroke. Looks mint. $3999 plus $250 shipping Wisconsin to So. Carolina. $4250 total. Includes new oil tank, pre-sized new shift/throttle cables and new sidemount control. Obviously no warranty. NADA $2655-3160. All input appreciated. Seller does not seem motivated even though he could not return my call for 30 min. because he was out plowing!
hauptjm	posted 12-07-2004 04:22 PM ET (US) Sounds like the Johnson is overpriced.
LHG	posted 12-07-2004 04:56 PM ET (US) On the Yamaha, the re-rigging package is too high. I would buy the engine from the guy, and have him bolt it on. Separately purchase and install the side mount control for about $300 max, pick up $40 worth of control cables, and buy your own needed Teleflex gauges, forgetting that expensive multi-function thing. Purchase the SS prop of your choice from a catalog or on-line house. The only problem with the Yamaha 70 is that it has out of date, puny, 6 amp charging at full throttle! It's also a little light on cubes in comparison to other brands, more like a 60 or 65 horse engine. For a couple of hundred more, you could get a Merc or Yamaha (same engine) 60 EFI 4-stroke and probably go just as fast. I would not buy the OMC engine, although an excellent performer, since it does not have the engine mounted oil tank that Merc and Yamaha have. A separate oil tank in a 15 is not very desireable.
Buckda	posted 12-07-2004 05:12 PM ET (US) Agreed..go with the Yamaha...but 850 for a prop is $$$.
RJG	posted 12-07-2004 06:19 PM ET (US) Buy the Yamaha. That is a very good price. I agree with LHG and would have the seller bolt it on. The rest is easy. My 13 year old son and I repowered his 13 last summer with a Yamaha 40. Everything just plugs in. Bought the control box from the dealer and everything else at West Marine.
zotcha	posted 12-07-2004 06:39 PM ET (US) Thanks guys. Dealer in Fla. says he can beat the Yamaha price by $50 but that he has to install it or it will not be warranteed.?. Another firefighter here in the area bought a one season old Suzuki and now has no warrantee for same reason. He is not happy at all. Buckda, $850 includes SS prop, sidemount control, cables, and multifunction guage. Pretty competitive so far. I can get them all at, or just above cost in Jersey, and have them shipped. LHG, I fully agree except I'm not too excited about the four stroke due to the added weight. The boat never stays in the water. My Seacraft sits low enough in the a$$ with a two stroke and it's just not a comfortable feeling. While beached or moored at sandbar, all the water in the well really makes my empties float around, make noise, and may even attract law enforcement. I would love to have an E-TEC but starting about $6200 just isn't in the budget. I was not aware that the Yammi only makes 6 amps. Also, the '81 70 hp. was not VRO and I don't mind mixing. I definately will not want that tank on board. Last season, disconnected VRO on '99 175. PITA, but more dependable. Thanks for the ideas. Difficult decision these days. zotcha.
brisboats	posted 12-07-2004 06:48 PM ET (US) The nod here definately goes to the Yamaha, especially if you can narrow the $1,500 gap. However, if the $850 quoted for the controls, prop and multifunction guage includes rigging that is not a bad price at all. I am partial to the 70hp OMC but that price on a 2000 is too high. FYI Ed's marine is currently selling the Yamaha 70hp loose for $4,299. Ebay usually has new contols selling for $200-300. The seller on the 2000 70hp should be very motivated at that price. Bottomline 50hrs or not it is still a five year old motor without a warranty and he is asking above what a dealer would sell that motor for with a warranty even if a 30-60 day. Seems like a no brainer here go with the Yamaha. I would skip the $850 extended warrantee IMO if the problem has not surfaced in the two years it isn't going to. Brian
Buckda	posted 12-07-2004 06:59 PM ET (US) Sorry...I obviously mis-read that..I thought he was trying to charge you 850 for the prop....I'm thinking it better be titanium and one hell of a propeller! I need to go home and go to bed...I'm clearly not thinking clearly (?!) Dave
zotcha	posted 12-07-2004 07:45 PM ET (US) In his defense, he did say that he would work with me if any unlikely problems were to surface after delivery after I told him a johnson dealer would be working on the boat. Still, "Out of State, Out of Mind". My mechanic is a friend and endorsed the Yamaha knowing he would lose my business. said years ago, when Johnsons patent ran out, Yammi quickly duplicated three cylinder, and is still suprisingly similar. But then I told him about the'00 and he got really excited! Going to wait a few days and try again. Maybe a member from Wisconsin could let me know of the next snowfall! Thanks. zotcha.
LHG	posted 12-07-2004 08:11 PM ET (US) That's a bunch of garbage about a Yamaha dealer having to install an engine or it would not be warranted, this from someone who has installed 6 big Mercs and received any needed warranty work on any that needed it. Ed's would be out of business under those circumstances. I would not buy anything from an operation that deals that way, simply because it indicates they are not honest. I'd still go for a Mercury or Yamaha 60 HP EFI 4-stroke over that old, carbureted 2 stroke technology soon to be discontinued. The weight difference is a negligible 20#, and the engines are day and night apart, including more cubes (61 vs 52), and you get a 3 yr warranty instead of a 1 year. You'll get 18 amp charging also. They cost about $5200, and are one of the best mid-sized engines on the market right now. A no brainer to me, pick your color, black or grey
Peter	posted 12-07-2004 08:15 PM ET (US) Go with the Yamaha, its a better value with the warranty. Skip the extra warranty, its not needed. They've been making this motor for nearly 20 years. I've got a 2003 Yamaha 70 2-stroke (self rigged) on a 15 SuperSport and despite what Larry says on the lack of cubes, the thing goes like a scalded dog. It's very rare that the conditions are flat enough that I can run the motor at WOT. I wouldn't worry about the 6 amp charging system as you are unlikely to run more than a fishfinder and a GPS at the same time on a 15 foot hull. It's never been a problem for me. Even if the battery died, its a simple motor that you can always pull start. All the dealer is giving you is about $100 off list for the rigging components so I would take a pass on the controls, prop and gauges and buy them on e-bay for half price unless time is of the essence. If you do go the e-bay route, be careful as I think there are several different kinds of 703s made for different size and different year motors and so.not all 703 controls are compatible with the 70. I believe the 703 control part number that is compatible is 703-48207-17-10. The multi-function gauge is nice but I don't think its really necessary. I use a simple analog Teleflex tachometer. I used to think that the three cylinder Yamahas were knockoffs of the 3 cylinder Johnson. Actually, when you take a close look at the Yamaha and the Johnson with the cowlings off, they really aren't as similar as you would first think.
wwknapp	posted 12-08-2004 01:16 AM ET (US) There have been quite a few Yamaha analog tachs on ebay recently. Mostly new old stock or used. Several of the ones I checked were the ones for the 2 stroke and had the warning lights. I don't have the newer rigging reference guide, but the 1999 one has a note that you will need a relay for the oil pressure light on the tach. There are several varieties of cables, make sure you get the right one. There are three different pinout counts, that must match. If it does not have tilt it's probably a 8 pin, tilt is a 10pin. Some new cables have turned up on ebay, I got a new one for my F50 for $25. Part of fixing the mess under the console left when that engine was installed, I assume by a dealer. Before I bought the boat. If that deal included the keyswitch, that's around $100 or more. And is chosen to match the harness cable. If you can sort out if it's the right one, Yamaha keyswitch panels are on ebay fairly frequently. You start pricing parts you may find that rigging cost sounds better. See if you can get a copy from the page that lists the rigging parts from the Quick Reference Engine Rigging Guide. That gives all the part numbers for the rigging stuff. I've got the one that covers my older motors. It's been a big help in checking if a part is the right one. Walt
zotcha	posted 12-08-2004 07:52 AM ET (US) Walt thanks for the information. Never bought anything from ebay. Not too excited about buying stuff sight unseen from a strsnger (except this '00 Johnson!). Can get rigging for Johnson or Yamaha in Jersey so will probably go that route. Peter, my last 70 hp. was a "reel screamer" until Labor Day. My brother and I just inherited our fathers Jersey Speed Skiff with a worked Chevy 283 and no transmission. I fully understand Chine Walking! Respect it and enjoy it. We blew the engine back in September and are now looking to replace with a 350ci/350hp. I would love an E-tec 75 but starting at about $6799, and my brother hot after my half of $5000 for the "Fast Forward" I'm really liking the old Johnson. Feel like I know what I'm getting. I would like to be more environmentally friendly, but am also pretty brand loyal. I guess I made a poor career choice to support these toys.?. Off for two days, check back with you all on Friday. Thanks for the feedback and experiences, much appreciated. zotcha, standing by.
Peter	posted 12-08-2004 09:19 AM ET (US) Depending on the bottom condition of your 15 (I have not perfectly smooth bottom paint), you should see 42 to 43 MPH with the Yamaha 70 mounted all the way down. The 703 control comes with the key switch and wiring harness built in. If you are not in a rush, keep an eye out for the 240 lb 2 cylinder E-TEC 70, which is lighter than the ~ 310 lb 3-cylinder E-TEC 75 which is too heavy for a 15. I believe the E-TEC 70 might become the ultimate clean motor for the classic 15 hull.
RJG	posted 12-08-2004 11:27 AM ET (US) I agree with LHG. I bought my Yamaha 40 from out of state. Dealer sent paper work with motor. I filled it out and sent it in and got my warrantee papers a few weeks later.
The Judge	posted 12-08-2004 12:16 PM ET (US) $3k max on that Johnson unless that was installed with SS prop, controls etc. BS on the warranty as well if you rig yourself. I have owned both 50, 60 & 70hp on 15's and there is very little difference between the 60 & 70hp, I would go with the MErc 60EFI 4 stroke, resale will be there evntually and the quietness is soooooo wonderfull.
c_mccann	posted 12-08-2004 02:05 PM ET (US) I'd stay away from Johnson- the solid performer is Yamaha, proven over and over. Yammie is top of the line, no question, and always a bonus for the resale value. Re-rig is always expensive, I've done it four times... You can rig it yourself, and then have the dealer check the rigging and do the first stary themselves- I did that on my Honda 225 and the warranty was ok with that.
LHG	posted 12-08-2004 05:48 PM ET (US) I'd say that the compact and lightweight Mercury 60 HP EFI 4-stroke is a lot more "top of the line" than that old smokey carbureted Yamaha 2 stroke. Since Yamaha sells the same engine, they may agree also. This 60 could be the ultimate engine for the old Classic 15. And the new supercharged, inherently balanced in-line 6 Verados are more "top of the line" than all of the other V-6 brands put together. Compare, listen and watch, as I have done, out on the water where it counts, and you will agree. They are incredible machines. Keeping this thread "fair and balanced" is important
NausetBoy	posted 12-08-2004 06:51 PM ET (US) As far as smokey old carbureated Yamaha two strokes go they are probably the most relaiable motors out there. The new verados may be a great motor, but with power steering and power shifting, thats more to go wrong in a saltwater enviroment and that goes along with the supercharger too. Its very complicated making it hard to work on. I have a friend with twin yamaha 225 SWSII with 0X66 and they have well over 2000 hours with no rebuild. Not arguing, just my opinion.
c_mccann	posted 12-08-2004 08:31 PM ET (US) I was given 2 chioces, yammie and Johnson. I wouldn't trust a johnson for even a tire block, and yammies are good motors. Now that we've opened it up to Merc's, yes, they are good motors, notwithstanding the problems they have had with the Optimax line and I'm a big fan of 4-strokes, no matter the brand. To go even further, how about Honda?? I have had great success with my hondas and vote for them over all others. Simple, rugged, proven. I think you'll have a problem with access to certain waters in the future with 2-strokes, especially carbed ones, so plan ahead on that one. If you want to save $$, look into re-conditioned or slightly used Hondas and Mercs, they are used widely amongst rental outfits and recons are widely available at dealers.
The Judge	posted 12-09-2004 11:27 AM ET (US) I agree to stay away from OMC but not Johnson nor Evinrude(post 2001). That 2000 Johnson was built by OMC when they were on top of the dung pile as far as quality goes. Now as far as Yamaha being the performance leader over the Johnson 70hp on a classic 15, I will put my $$ on a Johnson any day. The 70 yammie is nice but they do not have the balls the johnsons do. Again don't get me wrong, I love all the brands but the 70 & 90hp Yammies are weak performance wise compared to their competition.
happypappy	posted 12-09-2004 10:28 PM ET (US) The OMC 3-cylinder engines were hard to beat. The engine you are talking about is a 56 cu. in. engine (up from the older 49 cu. in.) and has a ton of bottom end and great top end power as well. The 3-Cyl Johnson and Evinrude engines have always enjoyed a stellar reputation for bulletproof longevity and constant performance.
SWarren	posted 12-10-2004 10:40 AM ET (US) Go see William at Plantation Marine in Walterboro. He is a suzuki, honda and Yamaha dealer. He will get you some real good prices on repower. He said Honda is much lower than Yam and suzuki right now. Being in Bluffton you are pretty close.
zotcha	posted 12-10-2004 08:29 PM ET (US) Wow!!! Almost overwhelming! Great information all the way around. Liking the idea of 4 stroke after all of this. Personally I have a hard time purchasing an engine that is not the maximum rated horsepower, but quite a few state not much difference in results of the new 60's. Interesting. Especially if rated at foot is comparible(sp?) to '81 70 rated at powerhead. Would like to test ride a 4 stroke 60 Merc.. Local dealer confirmed I can buy any brand, hang and rig it myself, as long as factory dealer completes original inspection, signs off and completes warranty information. Swarren, thanks for the local knowledge. Haven't considered Honda yet, but am aware of their dependability. Thought they may have been more expensive, still learning. Pete, the bottom is in Very Good condition and has never been painted. It has seen a lot of time beached at the local sand bar commonly known as the "Redneck Riviera". Hoping to start a full recondition SOON. Can't decide if I want to replace rubrail or not. Will test nav lights to determine? Thinking wet sand, compound and wax one to two times. Wood will take the longest. Going with factory mahogoney and X coats of spar. Think I can have it completed by Feb. 7 for trip to the FlaKeys? Thank you all-have a great weekend. zotcha.
zotcha	posted 12-13-2004 07:42 AM ET (US) What do you think of an '04 E-tec 90 brand new in a crate for $6000? Won last season during an SKA Tournament and right here in Charleston SC.. Would it be nuts to even consider this engine for a 15'? zotcha.
Peter	posted 12-13-2004 08:08 AM ET (US) Yes, its too heavy for the 15.
erik selis	posted 12-13-2004 08:43 AM ET (US) We have a Merc 60-hp 4-stroke EFI on a 17-ft Alert. It is the most reliable, quiet and clean engine I have ever had the opertunity to use. I have no doubt the Yamaha 60 4-stroke EFI would have the same qualities. Erik
zotcha	posted 12-13-2004 03:06 PM ET (US) O.K. What do you all think of this? 2005 4 Stroke EFI Yamaha 60? $ 5629 (in a crate) Custom Marine Statesboro Ga. $ 300 Multifunction Digital Tach (or $102 Anolog oil and water pressure idiot lights) $ 225 Side Mount Control $ 262 Stainless Steel Prop (Yamaha) $ 25 Yamaha Cables ------ $ 6441 Best deal I've found so far. Am I on the right track?
c_mccann	posted 12-13-2004 05:55 PM ET (US) I'd say so, that thing'll outlast you, can the existing steering be mounted on your motor? I assume it is cable steering. Be sure to clean the stering rod very well before installing, it'll already be pulled off so you can clean it well- carb cleaner or laquer thinner and some disposable towels will do the trick. Another thing is to cover the whole motor well- yammies are a dark color, and they fade and check up easily when left out. A local canvas shop can make you a good fitting cover for about $50. that'll keep it cosmeticaly good for a long time.
zotcha	posted 12-13-2004 06:08 PM ET (US) c-mccann I'm assuming the steering will swap over, but not real sure. I believe it all to be 1981(factory original) so would not be surprised if I had some upgrading to do there as well. Really did not want to go Merc. so this may be the way to go. Was hoping for some more feedback from the forum. Thanks, zotcha.
LHG	posted 12-13-2004 06:34 PM ET (US) I think you're on the right track, and you might contact infrequent Forum participant Paul Mucciolo who has had a 15 with a Yamaha 60 4-stroke on it, I believe. I hate to tell you this, considering you didn't want to go Merc, but that's exactly what you've done, since they make that powerhead for Yamaha! All of the Mercury/Yamaha engines, no matter who made the powerhead, seem to be excellent products in both grey and black.
c_mccann	posted 12-13-2004 08:54 PM ET (US) If it is cable/steering rod type that goes through the tilt tube, it should fit no problem. Yammie has been pretty good with their warranties, that is the main point of buying a new outboard- they would never sell a product that they could not afford to warrant.
NausetBoy	posted 12-14-2004 08:01 AM ET (US) LHG, I think its the other way around, Yamaha makes the powerhead for Merc?