posted 12-23-2004 01:09 PM ET (US)     

I've driven V6 four stroke Yamaha and Suzuki outboards, and they cannot compare to what the VERADO offers in terms of quiet operation and high torque throughout the entire RPM band. A nudge of the throttles registers as an immediate leap forward by the boat. In other words, hang on!

The engines started immediately, there was no vibration whatsoever, and no exhaust smell. Shifting was quiet and smooth, without the "clunk" normally encountered when shifting a large outboard. The digital controls were smooth with precise detents similar to those on the electronic controls on our twin-diesel sportfisherman. The power steering felt a bit "rubbery" with slight course corrections and the steering pump whined a bit during and after turns. Also, the placement of three trim and tilt buttons on the left hand throttle is not intuitive. It would be better to put individual switches on the base of the control box and a switch for both engines alone on the lever. I'd like to see those corrections made.

The mounting system rotates the engines along their long axis (from cowling to lower unit) on a plane parallel to the water surface when they're tilted, facilitating flushing and cleaning. They don't move in a "flip-flop" side-to-side motion as do conventionally mounted outboards. This boat was equipped with dual hydraulic cylinders, so the tie bar was "liquid," as explained by the technician. We idled along on one engine, turned the other off, and tilted its lower unit totally clear of the water.

The current 200-275HP VERADO is not for many current V6 applications, however. The engines are relatively heavy and tall, so the placement of the boat's batteries, fuel tanks, and other machinery have to be adjusted fore and aft to compensate for the additional weight on the transom. On many boats, this is not possible. On new boats specifically designed for four stroke power and boats with large reserves of bouyancy in the stern VERADO power makes a great package.

The electronic controls and power steering are simple to understand and should be easy to repair or replace, as they are all modular componets. The system requires no splicing or special wiring; just select the control box, gauges, and other readouts you'd like and plug them in! Everything was clearly labeled beneath the helm of the boat we sea trialed for plug-in integration of compatible electronic equipment (such as GPS, depth finders, etc). The synchronizer is automatic. That is necessary, as the engines are too quiet to synchronize by listening alone. I felt out of my element coming from a twin diesel boat!

posted 12-24-2004 08:03 AM ET (US)            

Me, I'm a reliability guy. Prove to me, after a few years, that the technology is solid and reliable, and I'm sold.

posted 12-24-2004 01:28 PM ET (US)            

I'm also one who get's full use out of my equipment. Outboards tend not to accumulate hours fast enough to wear out, most corrode away or such like. The verado will show how it's going to die in time, it's not immune.

One I've wondered about, in all that "high tech" is the water pump still that antique rubber impeller? One of the common killers of outboards. When you consider other water pumps and how long they last outboard water pumps are a crime. My well pump, for instance, has been at the bottom of my well pumping fine for over 20 years. Yet here's outboard pumps that have to be babied and rebuilt every few years.

Also yet to be learned is just how easy these outboards will be to repair. Really repair, not just change a steering cylinder or such like. Just how large is the pile of special tools? Is Mercury publishing a service manual the owner can get? Are parts available, and what do they cost? I do my own work as much as possible, which means just about everything. Because shop costs have been inflated way up. The higher they go the more I take on. If a job requires a special tool I always weigh the tool cost against shop charges. Virtually always comes out buying the tool is the cheap way out. Many of the special tools I just make myself.

The verado is full of things that have not been done in outboards. Though not new elsewhere. It's also a case of making a very small engine put out a lot more power than other designs of that size. A formula for accellerated wear and increased breakdowns. That overall set of "new" stuff makes it even more a case of let some other dummy take the chance to me. I'll stick with well tested hardware as much as possible. I'm not interested in a high strung "performance" engine on my boat. Any way you slice it the cost is higher.

It's all well and good to take out a new engine and try it. But, it's a new engine, it darned better run smoothly and quietly. How it ages is not determined by how it starts out. I've read quite a few glowing reports, all of which deal only with very peripheral things to long term durability.

Walt

posted 12-24-2004 02:23 PM ET (US)            

Like all the fasteners and retaining pins that are bare metal into a bare metal hole. With nothing applied to prevent corrosion.

Or super thin electroplating on easily corroded metal. Electroplating that will barely make it a few years.

The technology is available to make a outboard virtually corrosion proof. Especially for the price they are charging for them.

posted 12-24-2004 06:57 PM ET (US)         

Your perspective differs from mine.

As I stated in the last paragraph of my post above, if the VERADO enjoys the same type of durability and reliability as Mercury Marine has advertised, I'll give one serious consideration.

My father taught me a long time ago to "Do the things you do well and don't do the things you don't do well." I am an Emergency Physician, not a mechanic. If mechanical items of mine require repair or maintenance they go straight to the shop. If the members of my community become ill, they come straight to me. Patients don't read their EKG's, select appropriate antibiotic therapy, or repair lacerations. I don't perform compression tests, adjust valve clearances, or change pumps.

I cannot assume the position that if I can't repair it then it's no good. If that were the case, I'd never have a computer, DVD player, or new car. Furthermore, for me to adopt the posture that I should have the tools to repair every mechanical item in my posession in my garage is neither realistic nor appealing.

Equating spare parts availability on a venue such as eBay with reliability and durability is ridiculous. You must think that every brand is junk if the number of items available for sale on line is your barometer.

posted 12-24-2004 10:47 PM ET (US)            

Actually, for ebay it's more interesting to see what parts survived for different engines. Gives some idea what did not.

As for sea tow, don't go into the places I go. No sea tow in most of them. You can cry and whine on your radio all you want, no one will reply.

I can't repair everything on a outboard, yet I still use them. That does not make repairability or availability of parts a non-issue. Even folks like you who have plenty of money will pay a lot more if the parts are not there. Or only a very limited number of dealers are allowed to do repairs.

Walt

posted 12-25-2004 05:30 AM ET (US)            

I am not an eBay watcher, so I hadn't noticed the appearance of VERADO parts for sale.

My understanding is that Mercury requires special dealer qualification to sell, install, and service the Verado engine. My local Mercury dealer told me the cost for them to qualify would be "over $10,000". Since their outboard engine sales are mainly in the under-100 HP fishing boat/motor market, they do not have immediate plans to take on the Verado line.

There really has been a profound shift in the prevalent technology of outboard motors. In 1995 sales of two-stroke carbureted outboard engines accounted for over 95-percent of the market. In 2005 I am certain that over 50-percent of outboard sales will be computer controlled fuel-injected four-stroke engines, such as the Verado.

posted 12-25-2004 10:29 AM ET (US)            

$19,070 = Verado 275-HP MSRP
$ 3,391 = Rigging
$ 1,320 = SmartCraft SC5000 and Cable
---------
$23,781 = TOTAL

For more test ride impressions, see:

posted 12-26-2004 01:33 PM ET (US)            

What I saw was mostly lower end pieces. And it was well over a month ago. I don't count a damaged cowl as indicating much either.

I've also seen a few smartcraft pieces that the seller ID'd as coming from a verado installation.

It's only a matter of time until Verado's turn up used. How's Mercury going to control where those go?

My point was very simple, these are not miracles, they will break. How they might break is of far more interest than I seem to see. And it does not matter if you do your own work or not. When it breaks, you pay, just a lot more if you don't do the work yourself. In other areas we would see reviews in which the reviewer at least looked under the cowl. If not a teardown to evaluate the engineering.

I also disagree on how hard these are to repair. They are actually somewhat easier. There should be less problems going to fuel injection and electronic ignitions. The remaining motor is not much changed. A 4 stroke is no different than a auto engine to repair as far as the engine. The only additional tool needed is a inch-pound torque wrench due to the smaller fastener sizes. And the lower parts of outboards are not changing. The hardest part of a DIY is the lower unit. So many special tools are used in taking it apart and putting it back together. This is similar to auto transmissions, except you can buy a professionally rebuilt auto transmission for a price that's relatively cheap compared to the overblown prices on the much simpler lower units of outboards.

I agree with Peter, the Verado has so many things going against it when you consider it from a practical and economic standpoint. And has little to functionally distinguish it.

The one difference with Peter is that around here there are probably more new bass boats with large Yamaha or Johnson engines than Mercury engines. Even some running the big Honda. And almost all are 4 strokes. That's fairly recent, not too long ago it was mostly tracker boats which of course come with Mercury 2 strokes. There are still plenty of Mercury engines on bass boats here, but mostly older engines. And I've yet to see a Verado on anything out on the water. All those other 4 strokes are nice quiet engines that are relatively easy on gas. And with pretty well known reliability and durability. And most of the bass boat people I've talked to will more likely cite durability or economy over anything else. If you hang a 200+ hp engine on a bass boat, most any engine, you are going to get more performance than conditions allow. Certainly there are some who seem to spend more time running from one end of the lake to the other than fishing who might be performance sensitive, but they are the minority. (and I wonder if some even wet a line) The majority of the bass boats are running on economy cruise speeds when they are running. That's still pretty fast, but quieter. They are not the noise source they were a few years ago.

I've noticed a difference in how the bass boat folks fish this last year. Most are not running around near as much, fishing longer at each spot. And going less distance from the launch. Used to be they were constantly running, I think the massive gas price increase this last year has a difference on the water too. I was discussing the far end of the lake from the launch with a bass boat owner recently, a trip of some 40 miles. He said he used to run to the far end most times out, but had not been that far in months, too much gas cost.

posted 12-26-2004 10:26 PM ET (US)         

Factors such as initial cost, retrofit cost, power-to-weight ratio, fuel consumption at WOT and the like are not factors on which my statement was based. I mentioned those items separately, as they are considerations for prospective purchasers to make on an independent basis. The VERADO is not appropriate for every boat with current V6 power, the reasons for which I mentioned in my initial post.

All of the six new flats boat I saw at the same dealership where I tested the 34 footer had VERADO power. The racks of the dry storage facility had eight large center console boats with twin VERADO power. Compared to the hundred or so boats there, that is a small percentage. However, considering the recent release of the engine, that is not too bad, either. I cannot comment on the bass boat market and its reasons for deciding whether or not to use particular powerplants. That is a complicated issue the application of which to our current discussion is of dubious value.

What is "revolutionary" is the fact that 550 outboard horsepower can launch a 34 foot deep V boat to a 43 MPH cruise with authority while allowing its occupants to carry on a conversation without having to yell at one another. The only sound interference with which one has to contend on a VERADO powered boat are the wind and wave noise. Choose whatever descriptor you feel is appropriate, but that is quite an engineering accomplishment and worthy of praise.

jimh,

I appreciate your trying to maintain civility on CW, but censorship is not the way to do it.

posted 12-31-2004 08:45 PM ET (US)            

GMC made those two trucks from '91-'93 4.3L Turbocharged Vortec V6, pushing out 285+ HP (disputed to be 330) with 360ft/lbs of torque, with a liquid-cooled intercooler. I haven't seen any on the road since '97. GONE. None of them made it past 40k miles. I hate to say this, because at heart I'm a Ford guy, but American companies don't do high tech real well. We do displacement and power. On my ford, I stay away from the big 3, super, turbo and NOS. I simply had to bore and stroke my way to a small block with 500 hp =]

Every Mercury engine I've behind me has been hands down more powerful than any comprable engine(Japanese brands in particular), they also seem to leave me stranded more than any comparable engine.

When you combine the raw power with the high tech(read: forced induction) I have a gut feeling we will surely see a loss in reliability.

posted 12-31-2004 09:24 PM ET (US)            

We have a Ford F250 and E350, both with the Garret Turbos on teh 7.3 Diesel. As I may be wrong to compare the boat to the car, I think the diesel with low pressure is different from a high pressure "performance" application such as the typhoon and cyclone. Obviously there's two sides to every coin. the Ford Lightning second generation seems to better than the GMC's, but I was still too nervous to get one. I agree Mercury probably won't make that public, but the boost is probably signifigant.

I think you and I both take it a lot easier on our turbo'd diesels than the average performance turbo'd car or mercury verado owner.

Obviously just my .02 cents.