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Author Topic:   MONTAUK: Re-power--Which Mercury 90-HP

Bobby posted 04-03-2005 02:12 PM ET (US)
I have a 1982 Montauk with a 1982 Mariner 90. The motor is sliggish out of the hole, but runs fine after you get the boat to plane and run at a high speed. This drives me crazy so I am going to re-power and have a few questions.
I would like to go with a Mercury 90. I guess the control cables will hook up correctly. Comments.
Secondly, can anyone offer suggestions on type of Mercury 90. I have heard people talk about 2 and 4 stroke engines. Help please. Thanks...
JohnJ80 posted 04-03-2005 03:09 PM ET (US)
If you are going to repower, there are a lot of choices so I would do a market survey before constraining my choices to just Mercury. Hooking up control cables are the least of your worries when you repower.
You will need to worry about the the weight on the transom since older Whalers were designed for lower engine weights. Also, you will need to worry about prop selections, 2 stroke vs 4 stroke, vertical placement on the engine on the transom etc..
If you want an optimally set up boat, it is not a trivial problem. (Been there, done that).
Have you had a mechanic look over your current motor to determine the problem? Maybe it is a simple fix.
J
Bobby posted 04-03-2005 03:19 PM ET (US)
I appreciate your advice...
jimh posted 04-03-2005 04:22 PM ET (US)
The discussion of how to re-power a MONTAUK is probably the most prolific of all topics here in the PERFORMANCE area. There are literally dozens of threads with a thousand or more articles on this. Perhaps you would like to start here:
continuousWave --> Whaler --> Reference --> 16-17-->Re-Powering
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/16-17/repower.html
ryanwhaler posted 04-03-2005 10:21 PM ET (US)
I don't think hole shot should be a problem with an old school, carbed two-smoke. Are you sure the engine is running properly?
A recent power option for old Montauks is the new 90hp E-tec. Its not yet in Jim's reference article. Do a search for E-tec and "ratherwhalering" and you'll have all the details.
As for transom weight, here is a picture of our '80 with a Suzuki DF70 EFI four stroke. Note the splash well drains are still above the waterline with this heavy engine.
http://photobucket.com/albums/v222/ryanwhaler/Album-1/?action=view¤t=DSCF0237.jpg
bigjohn1 posted 04-04-2005 08:31 AM ET (US)
I agree with JohnJ80 on having your current outboard checked over thoroughly before plopping all that money down on a new engine. You don't give us many details on the life of the motor, how it was maintained, how it was winterized and so forth. It may simply be in need of $400-$500 worth of ignition or carb work..if you're really lucky, maybe its something much less expensive.
Bobby posted 04-04-2005 09:06 AM ET (US)
Thanks for all the advice. I'll post the outcome.
LHG posted 04-04-2005 01:22 PM ET (US)
Be sure to go to whaler.com and check the performance figures for the Montauk 170, and showing the comparisons between all three Merc 90's, 2-stroke, Optimax and 4-stroke. This is the best reference you can find on what a 90 Hp engine will do in the various technologies. Even though the boat is not quite the same as yours, the relationships will hold up for the classic Montauk. As you will see, the 2-stroke 90 is the best performer, but I understand they are already out of production, so get one fast if that is what you want
newt posted 04-04-2005 02:53 PM ET (US)
If you decide to go with a 2-stroke, the Mercury 90 hp classic is a great match to the Montauk. I repowered mine with one in 2002. At the time, I think the Johnson was lowest price, followed by the Mercury.
Also, when checking your current setup out, make sure you have the right prop on the engine. I would guess that too much pitch would slow you down out of the hole, and a crappy prop would slip and blow out.
CHRISWEIGHT posted 04-04-2005 06:16 PM ET (US)
bobby
Is this ninety a six cylinder engine.
can confirm that the classic 90 2 stroke is powerful with strong torque, should be great if you can find one and don't boat anyware too sensitive.
regards
chris
Joe Kriz posted 04-04-2005 06:26 PM ET (US)
Besides the reference link above which is excellent, I made a Quick Reference Guide for NEW engine choices for the Montauks. There aren't many other choices unless you buy a USED motor.
http://users.sisqtel.net/jkriz/drawings/Montauk-QRG.html
fourdfish posted 04-04-2005 06:41 PM ET (US)
Joe Kriz-- Very nice job on the engine table. That is an example of helpful info for the site.
half shell posted 04-04-2005 07:07 PM ET (US)
Ditto excellent job on table.
The 90 yamaha looks excellent as far as weight goes.However the 2 stroke merc 90 is most likely quicker out of the hole.
Regards bob
ps I miss my montauks!!!!!!!!!!!!!
acseatsri posted 04-04-2005 07:35 PM ET (US)
Before replacing the engine, are you sure it's propped properly? At WOT, what RPM is the engine running at? If it's not near the top of the recommended operating range, a propeller with less pitch may be just what the doctor ordered.
Binkie posted 04-04-2005 08:25 PM ET (US)
If you decide to repower, and your Mariner 90 is a tower of power 6 cylinder, and a fresh water motor, I would be interested in buying it, If its one of those no torque 3 cyl. that must be run on a light boat at high rpms thats the answer to your problems. Its even too light weight to make a good mooring anchor>
The Chesapeake Explorer posted 04-04-2005 11:36 PM ET (US)
I second what is the prop size.. Also have you had this boat and motor a long time? Know its history..compression over the years ect? Are you a skilled mechanic? If the answers are no then your best bet may well be have a good outboard mechanic look at it.. there around check out the marinas see who they recommend.. there are lots of freelance mechanics that never advertise.. they dont need too ,they travel from marina to marina and have plenty of work, find one and have them a look at the motor as stated in a prior post a few hundred dollars can work wonders.
CHRISWEIGHT posted 04-05-2005 06:06 AM ET (US)
bobby
We have a similar sized but heavier Boston Whaler to the classic Montauk and i can assure you that from actual experience that the Mercury classic 90 elpto 3 CYLINDER has enough power and torque to run at 43mph by GPS, 4 adults 2 children with good hole shot.
regards
chris
TexasWhaler posted 04-05-2005 09:35 AM ET (US)
Bobby,
Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but the Opitmax 90 seems like a great repower option. Strong 2-stroke performance, and still an exemplary 3-star emissions rating. The best of both worlds!
Perry posted 04-05-2005 01:48 PM ET (US)
At 375 lbs, the Optimax 90 is probably too heavy for a Classic Montauk. Like LHG said, go to whaler.com and check the performance figures for the Montauk 170, it compares all three Merc 90's, 2-stroke, Optimax and 4-stroke. The Optimax is the slowest of the three. The classic 90 seems to be the best choice, not very clean but great performance and a good price if you can still find one.
LHG posted 04-05-2005 04:04 PM ET (US)
I was't aware your old 90 was one of the in-line six cylinder models. If it is in good cosmetic shape, it might be worth finding out why it's sluggish on acceleration, and cost to spruce up. Can't find a smooth 6 cylinder, inherently balanced design, 90 HP engine any more, and on the used market, such as Scream and Fly, they are in demand.
I have it on good information that the Merc 90 2-stroke is a 100HP engine, which is why it outperforms the clean 90's.
The 90 Optimax is one-half the V-6 cylinder block of the Merc 3.0 liter 225, and should be a better performer than indicated, plus it has Smartcraft engine and fuel management built-in, which could be reason enough to buy it over the 90 4-stroke. They seem very quiet running from those that I have seen.
Since BW factory installed many 90 4-strokes on the 17 Montauks, your hull can handle the weight.
I have seen a Montauk with a Merc 150 EFI V-6 on it, and also one with a Merc 200 HP carb V-6, both of which weigh about 400#, and there was no problem.
Perry posted 04-05-2005 06:11 PM ET (US)
The debate on maximum motor weight for the Classic Montauk has been discussed over and over. The maximum motor weight for the Alert 17 which is the same as a Classic Montauk is 330 lbs. Many people say that 90 HP 4 strokes like Honda's and Yamaha's are just too heavy. But if LHG says that 400 lbs of MERCURY 150 or MERCURY 200 on a Classic Montauk is "no problem" well, I guess it has to be true.
LHG posted 04-05-2005 07:18 PM ET (US)
Perry, as I said, BOSTON WHALER factory rigged classic Montauks with 4-stroke 90's, at 386# without oil and prop, before they introduced the new 170.
Mumbo Jumbo posted 04-05-2005 08:37 PM ET (US)
90 Yamaha two stroke.
Perry posted 04-06-2005 12:14 AM ET (US)
Just because Boston Whaler put a 386 # motor on a Classic Montauk does not mean that the added weight was no problem.
I quote LHG on another thread: "they had to artificially increase it (max weight) on the Montauk to accomodate the Mercury 90Hp 4 stroke, which weighs 386lb.....Since we know they play around with HP ratings, why not weight, to accomodate Mercury engines as needed."
There is a Montauk in the water at a marina nearby with a Yamaha 100 4 stroke on it. It sits very low in the water at the stern, I'll take a photo of it next time I'm there.
TexasWhaler posted 04-06-2005 09:42 AM ET (US)
I hear ya Mumbo. whether your a Yamaha fan or not, 90hp at 261 lbs is darn nice.
TexasWhaler posted 04-06-2005 01:43 PM ET (US)
There's a great photo in the Cetacea section that is a great shot of 2 Montauks holding different weight outboards.
The approximately 370 lb Evinrude Ficht versus the 261 lb Yamaha.
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage41.html#41-9
andiamo posted 04-06-2005 04:59 PM ET (US)
Maybe I read that chart a different way than the rest of you but for me the only option was the 90 hp E-TEC. Mine was just installed last week and I cannot wait to get to my boat.
To my mind the E-TEC answers all of the questions. It is light, it is quite, it is fast, it is small on the transom, and it is not a 4 stroke so I can get slalom waterskiers up on one ski because of the added torque.
By the way, it is my understanding that Mercury will discontinue their 2 stroke classic at the end of this year.
I will let you all know how if goes when I actually get to the boat but that will not be for a few more weeks yet.
Teak Oil posted 04-06-2005 07:49 PM ET (US)
The 2 smoke Merc is discontinued already. By late summer I would think most dealers will be out of them.
Andiamo be sure to post some before and after results with the E-Tec, and make sure they dont mount it all the way down on the transom, see if you can get it mounted up a 1/2" or so.
PeteB88 posted 04-13-2005 12:47 PM ET (US)
Just a thought - Maybe you ought to pull the cover off the Mariner and spend a little quality time with it. I was blown away at what Deep Creep and Sea Foam did to my OB. I would do a search on Sal DeMurcurios posts (probably got the last name wrong) and his recommendations of carb and fuel system additives and cleaners. You might be surprized. But new motors are like a brand new bike - awesome.
best

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Author	Topic: MONTAUK: Re-power--Which Mercury 90-HP
Bobby	posted 04-03-2005 02:12 PM ET (US) I have a 1982 Montauk with a 1982 Mariner 90. The motor is sliggish out of the hole, but runs fine after you get the boat to plane and run at a high speed. This drives me crazy so I am going to re-power and have a few questions. I would like to go with a Mercury 90. I guess the control cables will hook up correctly. Comments. Secondly, can anyone offer suggestions on type of Mercury 90. I have heard people talk about 2 and 4 stroke engines. Help please. Thanks...
JohnJ80	posted 04-03-2005 03:09 PM ET (US) If you are going to repower, there are a lot of choices so I would do a market survey before constraining my choices to just Mercury. Hooking up control cables are the least of your worries when you repower. You will need to worry about the the weight on the transom since older Whalers were designed for lower engine weights. Also, you will need to worry about prop selections, 2 stroke vs 4 stroke, vertical placement on the engine on the transom etc.. If you want an optimally set up boat, it is not a trivial problem. (Been there, done that). Have you had a mechanic look over your current motor to determine the problem? Maybe it is a simple fix. J
Bobby	posted 04-03-2005 03:19 PM ET (US) I appreciate your advice...
jimh	posted 04-03-2005 04:22 PM ET (US) The discussion of how to re-power a MONTAUK is probably the most prolific of all topics here in the PERFORMANCE area. There are literally dozens of threads with a thousand or more articles on this. Perhaps you would like to start here: continuousWave --> Whaler --> Reference --> 16-17-->Re-Powering http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/16-17/repower.html
ryanwhaler	posted 04-03-2005 10:21 PM ET (US) I don't think hole shot should be a problem with an old school, carbed two-smoke. Are you sure the engine is running properly? A recent power option for old Montauks is the new 90hp E-tec. Its not yet in Jim's reference article. Do a search for E-tec and "ratherwhalering" and you'll have all the details. As for transom weight, here is a picture of our '80 with a Suzuki DF70 EFI four stroke. Note the splash well drains are still above the waterline with this heavy engine. http://photobucket.com/albums/v222/ryanwhaler/Album-1/?action=view¤t=DSCF0237.jpg
bigjohn1	posted 04-04-2005 08:31 AM ET (US) I agree with JohnJ80 on having your current outboard checked over thoroughly before plopping all that money down on a new engine. You don't give us many details on the life of the motor, how it was maintained, how it was winterized and so forth. It may simply be in need of $400-$500 worth of ignition or carb work..if you're really lucky, maybe its something much less expensive.
Bobby	posted 04-04-2005 09:06 AM ET (US) Thanks for all the advice. I'll post the outcome.
LHG	posted 04-04-2005 01:22 PM ET (US) Be sure to go to whaler.com and check the performance figures for the Montauk 170, and showing the comparisons between all three Merc 90's, 2-stroke, Optimax and 4-stroke. This is the best reference you can find on what a 90 Hp engine will do in the various technologies. Even though the boat is not quite the same as yours, the relationships will hold up for the classic Montauk. As you will see, the 2-stroke 90 is the best performer, but I understand they are already out of production, so get one fast if that is what you want
newt	posted 04-04-2005 02:53 PM ET (US) If you decide to go with a 2-stroke, the Mercury 90 hp classic is a great match to the Montauk. I repowered mine with one in 2002. At the time, I think the Johnson was lowest price, followed by the Mercury. Also, when checking your current setup out, make sure you have the right prop on the engine. I would guess that too much pitch would slow you down out of the hole, and a crappy prop would slip and blow out.
CHRISWEIGHT	posted 04-04-2005 06:16 PM ET (US) bobby Is this ninety a six cylinder engine. can confirm that the classic 90 2 stroke is powerful with strong torque, should be great if you can find one and don't boat anyware too sensitive. regards chris
Joe Kriz	posted 04-04-2005 06:26 PM ET (US) Besides the reference link above which is excellent, I made a Quick Reference Guide for NEW engine choices for the Montauks. There aren't many other choices unless you buy a USED motor. http://users.sisqtel.net/jkriz/drawings/Montauk-QRG.html
fourdfish	posted 04-04-2005 06:41 PM ET (US) Joe Kriz-- Very nice job on the engine table. That is an example of helpful info for the site.
half shell	posted 04-04-2005 07:07 PM ET (US) Ditto excellent job on table. The 90 yamaha looks excellent as far as weight goes.However the 2 stroke merc 90 is most likely quicker out of the hole. Regards bob ps I miss my montauks!!!!!!!!!!!!!
acseatsri	posted 04-04-2005 07:35 PM ET (US) Before replacing the engine, are you sure it's propped properly? At WOT, what RPM is the engine running at? If it's not near the top of the recommended operating range, a propeller with less pitch may be just what the doctor ordered.
Binkie	posted 04-04-2005 08:25 PM ET (US) If you decide to repower, and your Mariner 90 is a tower of power 6 cylinder, and a fresh water motor, I would be interested in buying it, If its one of those no torque 3 cyl. that must be run on a light boat at high rpms thats the answer to your problems. Its even too light weight to make a good mooring anchor>
The Chesapeake Explorer	posted 04-04-2005 11:36 PM ET (US) I second what is the prop size.. Also have you had this boat and motor a long time? Know its history..compression over the years ect? Are you a skilled mechanic? If the answers are no then your best bet may well be have a good outboard mechanic look at it.. there around check out the marinas see who they recommend.. there are lots of freelance mechanics that never advertise.. they dont need too ,they travel from marina to marina and have plenty of work, find one and have them a look at the motor as stated in a prior post a few hundred dollars can work wonders.
CHRISWEIGHT	posted 04-05-2005 06:06 AM ET (US) bobby We have a similar sized but heavier Boston Whaler to the classic Montauk and i can assure you that from actual experience that the Mercury classic 90 elpto 3 CYLINDER has enough power and torque to run at 43mph by GPS, 4 adults 2 children with good hole shot. regards chris
TexasWhaler	posted 04-05-2005 09:35 AM ET (US) Bobby, Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but the Opitmax 90 seems like a great repower option. Strong 2-stroke performance, and still an exemplary 3-star emissions rating. The best of both worlds!
Perry	posted 04-05-2005 01:48 PM ET (US) At 375 lbs, the Optimax 90 is probably too heavy for a Classic Montauk. Like LHG said, go to whaler.com and check the performance figures for the Montauk 170, it compares all three Merc 90's, 2-stroke, Optimax and 4-stroke. The Optimax is the slowest of the three. The classic 90 seems to be the best choice, not very clean but great performance and a good price if you can still find one.
LHG	posted 04-05-2005 04:04 PM ET (US) I was't aware your old 90 was one of the in-line six cylinder models. If it is in good cosmetic shape, it might be worth finding out why it's sluggish on acceleration, and cost to spruce up. Can't find a smooth 6 cylinder, inherently balanced design, 90 HP engine any more, and on the used market, such as Scream and Fly, they are in demand. I have it on good information that the Merc 90 2-stroke is a 100HP engine, which is why it outperforms the clean 90's. The 90 Optimax is one-half the V-6 cylinder block of the Merc 3.0 liter 225, and should be a better performer than indicated, plus it has Smartcraft engine and fuel management built-in, which could be reason enough to buy it over the 90 4-stroke. They seem very quiet running from those that I have seen. Since BW factory installed many 90 4-strokes on the 17 Montauks, your hull can handle the weight. I have seen a Montauk with a Merc 150 EFI V-6 on it, and also one with a Merc 200 HP carb V-6, both of which weigh about 400#, and there was no problem.
Perry	posted 04-05-2005 06:11 PM ET (US) The debate on maximum motor weight for the Classic Montauk has been discussed over and over. The maximum motor weight for the Alert 17 which is the same as a Classic Montauk is 330 lbs. Many people say that 90 HP 4 strokes like Honda's and Yamaha's are just too heavy. But if LHG says that 400 lbs of MERCURY 150 or MERCURY 200 on a Classic Montauk is "no problem" well, I guess it has to be true.
LHG	posted 04-05-2005 07:18 PM ET (US) Perry, as I said, BOSTON WHALER factory rigged classic Montauks with 4-stroke 90's, at 386# without oil and prop, before they introduced the new 170.
Mumbo Jumbo	posted 04-05-2005 08:37 PM ET (US) 90 Yamaha two stroke.
Perry	posted 04-06-2005 12:14 AM ET (US) Just because Boston Whaler put a 386 # motor on a Classic Montauk does not mean that the added weight was no problem. I quote LHG on another thread: "they had to artificially increase it (max weight) on the Montauk to accomodate the Mercury 90Hp 4 stroke, which weighs 386lb.....Since we know they play around with HP ratings, why not weight, to accomodate Mercury engines as needed." There is a Montauk in the water at a marina nearby with a Yamaha 100 4 stroke on it. It sits very low in the water at the stern, I'll take a photo of it next time I'm there.
TexasWhaler	posted 04-06-2005 09:42 AM ET (US) I hear ya Mumbo. whether your a Yamaha fan or not, 90hp at 261 lbs is darn nice.
TexasWhaler	posted 04-06-2005 01:43 PM ET (US) There's a great photo in the Cetacea section that is a great shot of 2 Montauks holding different weight outboards. The approximately 370 lb Evinrude Ficht versus the 261 lb Yamaha. http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage41.html#41-9
andiamo	posted 04-06-2005 04:59 PM ET (US) Maybe I read that chart a different way than the rest of you but for me the only option was the 90 hp E-TEC. Mine was just installed last week and I cannot wait to get to my boat. To my mind the E-TEC answers all of the questions. It is light, it is quite, it is fast, it is small on the transom, and it is not a 4 stroke so I can get slalom waterskiers up on one ski because of the added torque. By the way, it is my understanding that Mercury will discontinue their 2 stroke classic at the end of this year. I will let you all know how if goes when I actually get to the boat but that will not be for a few more weeks yet.
Teak Oil	posted 04-06-2005 07:49 PM ET (US) The 2 smoke Merc is discontinued already. By late summer I would think most dealers will be out of them. Andiamo be sure to post some before and after results with the E-Tec, and make sure they dont mount it all the way down on the transom, see if you can get it mounted up a 1/2" or so.
PeteB88	posted 04-13-2005 12:47 PM ET (US) Just a thought - Maybe you ought to pull the cover off the Mariner and spend a little quality time with it. I was blown away at what Deep Creep and Sea Foam did to my OB. I would do a search on Sal DeMurcurios posts (probably got the last name wrong) and his recommendations of carb and fuel system additives and cleaners. You might be surprized. But new motors are like a brand new bike - awesome. best