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Author Topic:   MONTAUK: Propeller for 90-HP E-TEC
seasaw posted 05-10-2005 08:59 PM ET (US)   Profile for seasaw   Send Email to seasaw  
I will be installing a 90-HP E-TEC on my 1986 Montauk in about a week. Any suggestions on propellors? If I go to a SS prop would the size and pitch be the same as an alumimum one? Thanks
ratherwhalering posted 05-10-2005 09:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for ratherwhalering  Send Email to ratherwhalering     
Seasaw, I run a Stiletto 13.25 x 15-inch prop, and it is a fine fit. The Stiletto is a performance prop, and seems to have more rake and blade cupping that a typical stainless steel propeller, and therefore is smaller than I would normally run. I have a 4-inch set back bracket, with the anti-caviataion plate 3-inches above the bottom of the transom.
seasaw posted 05-10-2005 09:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for seasaw  Send Email to seasaw     
thanks, I had a Mercury 125-HP on the transom before. I hope to be able to use the existing holes, but I am not sure if they will match or not. Would you use the same prop if you did not have the bracket?
thanks
Teak Oil posted 05-10-2005 10:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for Teak Oil  Send Email to Teak Oil     
I would go bigger than that, unless you carry a lot of very heavy loads.

13.25 x 17 should be a good size and give a top end of 40-42. It also has a good hole shot even with heavy loads.

I ran a 13 x 19 with my 90, and went to 13.5 x 20 when I installed my jackplate.

Bayoumontauk posted 05-10-2005 10:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bayoumontauk  Send Email to Bayoumontauk     
Seasaw, Post your numbers when you are up and running. There are a number of us "would be repowerer's" looking. Thanks Bill.
whalersailer posted 05-11-2005 12:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalersailer  Send Email to whalersailer     
I concur with Rather's suggestion [of a a Stiletto 13.25 x 15-inch prop]. I have the exact same prop on my E-TEC 90 on an 1989 Montauk, except I have a 5 1/2-inch setback instead of the 4-inch. I've only run the boat twice, but it pulls a solid 42-MPH at 5,400-RPM. (5,500 is max for the 90 E-TEC.) And has incredible acceleration. It should pull a 17-inch pitch, but the question is how well, plus it wouldn't have the hole shot of the 15-inch pitch, and it would cost some money for the experiment. If you decide to do it, please post the results!

Good Luck!

-WS

jimh posted 05-12-2005 08:46 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
[Administrative post]
LHG posted 05-12-2005 12:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
All brand's engine mounting holes will match, assuming the transom is drilled correctly, since all brands have adopted the B.I.A. standard pattern. JimH has dimensional material on this in the reference section. The only issue at all is what year your brand adopted the standard if you are replacing an engine older than 1980, the approximate year Mercury started using it.

The pattern can present a slight problem with some of the earlier Whalers, pre 1974 or so. On those shallower splashwells, where the bottom bolts must enter for through-bolting, instead of using the vertical separation of 8", the next lower TOP hole, resulting in 7-1/4" of vertical separation, needs to used. This will raise the engine 3/4" on the transom, but is usually done anyway, even when aluminum props are being used

seasaw posted 05-12-2005 08:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for seasaw  Send Email to seasaw     
thanks for all the help! the motor that i removed was a 1994 Merc 125 (my 18 year old son loved that motor!), the bottom mounting holes are close to the bottom of the splash well, hopefully it will work out. according to the dealer the motor has been shipped and should be here next tuesday. what has me a little concerned is that in all liklihood, mainly due to the calendar, the boat will immeadiatly head about three hors south to Cape Cod after the motor is rigged. hopefully i can get it wet here to test it out before i take it down. It gets heavy use at the Cape. thanks again
andiamo posted 05-16-2005 10:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for andiamo  Send Email to andiamo     
If all goes well I should be on the water this weekend (Victoria Day) with my new 90 hp E-TEC on my '86 Montauk. The engine has been on the boat for a month but I have not been able to get down to Nova Scotia to take her for a spin.

I have to confess that I did not pay much attention to what the dealer did but I think I have a standard 17 inch prop. Does that sound right? Are the numbers engraved on the prop so I can check to let you all know?

crabby posted 05-17-2005 10:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for crabby  Send Email to crabby     
1985 Montauk with 2004 90hp e-tec...generally used with one person, 1 dog, 12 gallons gas maybe one or two extra passengers on occasion (as well as some anchors and other gear)

Mounted: directly on the transom 1 hole up relative to stock all the way down (where my each previous motors were mounted (both 70 hp 3 cylinder OMC's))

Props I have tried:

(all are 13 or 13.25 inches in diameter)

15inch Evinrude stainless (SST ?): great hole shot but not enough pitch

17inch Evinrude stainless (SST ?): still did not feel like sufficient pitch but gave me roughly 41 mph GPS with a light load in the boat

19inch Evinrude stainless (SST): 42mph GPS with a light load, has a solid grip in the water, still a good hole shot with a light load but noticeably slower with myself (180 pounds), dog (100 pounds), passenger (190 pounds), and gear/fuel.

15inch pitch Stiletto stainless vented: 41mph GPS but doesn't lug down with extra weight in the boat. very good hole shot.

I ran the 19inch pitch for about a month before I trialed the Stiletto, which I used for about 7 or 8 months, and recently put the 19 back on. I have had the 19 on it for two weeks now and on the way back in this afternoon I decided to put the 15inch pitch Stiletto back on the next chance I get.

So I would suggest either a 17inch pitch Evinrude/Bombardier stainless prop or a 15inch Stiletto as the best all purpose prop for your 90hp e-tec on anolder MOntauk.

LHG posted 05-18-2005 01:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
In watching the E-TEC 90 reports on various Montauks here, it seems as this is not a particularly strong 90 Hp engine, and runs more like the Yamaha 90 2-stroke at about 41-42 mph, which is considered about an 82 horse engine. Almost all other 90 HP engines, 2-stroke or 4-stroke, seem to be faster in 44-45 mph range. Clark Roberts has reported 49 MPH out his 2-stroke Merc 90 on same hull, and I have seen reports of an old OMC 90 2-stroke at 46-47 mph.
crabby posted 05-18-2005 10:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for crabby  Send Email to crabby     
My old 70hp 1986 Evinrude used to give me 38mph GPS when it was running well. That was with a 17inch OMC SST stainless prop running at 6000rpms (yes, that motor was rated at 6k rpms that year and had a gearcase with a lower ratio than the 1985 70hp it replaced). I certainly expected a bit more out of this 90hp e-tec but when you work up the numbers given elsewhere on this site the speeds I am getting are in range for my props at the rpms I have been turning (not quite 5500 with the 15inch Stiletto, just about 5500 with the 17inch SST, and about 5250 with the 19inch SST).

My impressions with this motor is that something is holding it back, as it is just starting to sound real nice and happy when I hit about 4800 to 5000 rpms, then she just tops out a couple hundred rpms later. I have not used my gps lately to double check on my speeds or speeds at specific rpms but it certainly FEELS like I am getting a good speed boost when I go to WOT from 4800 rpms; it just doesn't keep winding.

Once the fishing slows I will have another go at checking the speeds with the props I still own at every 500 rpms. And I will bring this up a bit with the dealer next week when I bring the motor in for a checkup and gear lube change.

Teak Oil posted 05-19-2005 10:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for Teak Oil  Send Email to Teak Oil     
Larry I wouldnt make that general of a statement. The VAST majority of V4 88's and 90's are running right around 42. My V4 ran 42 before I put the jackplate on and now it runs 45-46.

I have seen a couple reports of 90 Mercs hitting 45, but those are from the guys who know how to get the most out of there setups. That 49mph run of Clarks must have been when Jupiter and Saturn were lined up just right in the sky.

I think it is unfair to label the E-tec "not that strong of a 90". It can hang with just about any 90 out there, though the Merc 90 smoker does seem to be the fastest of the 90's. I think the 60 degree looper 90 V4's are the ones you see running 45-46

Perry posted 05-19-2005 12:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
Some people say the Honda 90 is a poor performer too. It can also push a Classic Montauk to 42 mph. My old 1986 Montauk with a 1986 Evinrude 90 used to top out at 45 mph.
LHG posted 05-19-2005 12:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
Well, hopefully, someone here will be able to get a classic Montauk up to 46-47 MPH with a 90 E-Tec, but in the meantime, I'm sticking with the reports I have seen HERE. Regarding the OMC 2-stroke 90's, I was referring to the newer 60 degree V-4's, which seem to run a solid 44 on a Montauk. Nor do I think a 90 Optimax is any faster than the E-tec, nor was I dumping on the E-tec, just stating some emerging facts. I think with these clean engines, we just have to get used to a little less rated power. The manufacturers are still taking advantage of the + or - 10% rule, and emissions considerations, which are related to HP, pretty much eliminate the +! So in reality, the consumer can now only lose by this rule, not win as was the case with many 2-strokes, particularly Mercury. If you buy a 90, you're going to get 90 Hp if you're lucky, nothing more.

I have personal experience with a good friend's previous 1983 Montauk, purchased new with a new Merc in-line-6 90Hp. The boat would do about 46-47 mph. My own 16' Nauset, powered with one of the Merc 115's now currently on my 18 Outrage, would run 51 mph, turning a 21" SS prop through a 2.0 gear ratio.

whalersailer posted 05-19-2005 01:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalersailer  Send Email to whalersailer     
Larry,

You do raise some good points and have got me thinking.

The engine seems like it should be able to push the boat faster. It has an incredible hole shot and reasonable top end (42 @ 5,500 not fully trimmed up). Hopefully the weather will get nicer up here so I can start really playing with it. When I rigged it, I set the cavitation plate even with the bottom and haven't touched it yet since the weather turned crappy. With the setback I'm running and the performance with the 15" Stileto, I'm convinced that I can raise the engine an inch or two and switch to the 17" Stileto for a better top speed. I just need the time and $ to start playing with it.

Hopefully within the next few weeks I can get my setup into the mid 40's.

-WS

Teak Oil posted 05-19-2005 04:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for Teak Oil  Send Email to Teak Oil     
Larry I think you are right the days of understating hp are long gone starting this year. 90's will be 90's, not 110's. This is a good and a bad thing.

We need to learn to compare 2006 engines to other 2006 engines, not 1990 engines. That would be like comparing a propshaft rated motor to a crankshaft rated motor, its apples to oranges.

In 1985 hp went up for all domestic manufacturers, and I think with the new EPA rules everything is reversing back to pre 1985 levels, though for different reasons.


Peter posted 05-19-2005 05:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Not exactly. I understand that the carbureted 2-stroke Johnson 90 will still be around next year. Only Mercury has decided to stop making carbureted 2-strokes.

With respect to clean motors, look on the bright side. The clean 90 HP of today will take the boater 20 to 40 percent farther on a gallon of gas than the strong 90 of yesterday. I think that matters far more than going an extra 2 MPH at WOT where most folks run WOT less than 2 percent of the time. Also, since most folks spend the majority of their time between trolling and cruising speed, maximizing mid range cruising economy should be the primary propeller choice objective rather than top speed. A propeller that produces a higher top speed doesn't necessarily produce the best cruising economy.


ratherwhalering posted 05-20-2005 12:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for ratherwhalering  Send Email to ratherwhalering     
My performance results for the 1986 Johnson 90HP V4 engine, and my new E-TEC are almost identical, with the E-TEC delivering higher top end. I was a little disappointed when I first got it because I was expecting something "different." You know, quicker, faster, stronger. I have come to realize that the true benefits (economy, emissions, maintainance, weight, and relaibility) are this motor's strong points, and that a 90 is a 87, is a 89, is a 92. Perhaps the exception is the Merc in-line-six (ye ole Tower of Power), which I'll bet is somewhere around 94HP. I also have a buddy with one of these, and he can crush me in a flat out race. That's a fact.

Lastly, on a performance note, my E-TEC seems to bang out 5000 RPM, trim down, before you have a chance to even look at the tach, but then it is a 5-8 second creep to 5500. I experimented last weekend by trimming out to 5500 RPM, dropping back to 2500, then goosing it. Same thing, 5200 no sweat, and a slow creep to 5500. Speed is a directly proportional to RPM. 5500 gives me 42.5. 5400 is 41, 5300 is 40.5, etc.

From what I have tried, I don't think we'll see a Montauk with a 90 E-TEC hit 47 with 5500 RPM. She just won't have the horsepower. Annoying as he is, my buddy's Montauk is just plain faster, despite the '90' sticker we both share. Of course, I would easily beat him in a race in Lake Tahoe...he can't paddle faster than 2 MPH.

davej14 posted 05-20-2005 06:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for davej14  Send Email to davej14     
Ratherwhaling,

Can you still source a Stiletto prop direct from the factory?

andiamo posted 05-24-2005 10:08 AM ET (US)     Profile for andiamo  Send Email to andiamo     
Having now gotten a chance to visit with and use (briefly) my new E-TEC 90 I can tell you the standard that came with the motor from the dealer is a 14x17.

The Chesapeake Explorer posted 05-25-2005 09:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for The Chesapeake Explorer  Send Email to The Chesapeake Explorer     
Reading this and thinking about the Yamaha 90 2S I just got
maybe a 13 1/2 X 15 will be a better prop then the 13 1/4 X 17 I am running since I see it does well on a Etec 90 which is a 3 cyl. LHG I belive you are right about the 82 HP.on the Yamaha. I cant see how a motor with 3 single carbs thats 400 cc less then a V4 Erude with twin 2 barrel carbs can be "the same HP" . Now no lies when my 87 17 Montauk was brand new broke in that fall on a crisp day trimmed up,smooth as glass, me only no load 6 gal gas and no bottom paint like I have now with a 12 3/4 X 21 prop I ran a measured mile at 50 mph. The boat was fast enough to pull tears out of my eyes at any time. Every motor will run a bit slower on hot humid days then crisp fall days.
Tollyfamily posted 05-26-2005 09:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tollyfamily  Send Email to Tollyfamily     
The east coast water must be more slippery! I have never seen a 2 stroke 90 Montauk break 42 mph, my 87 with a 90 rude goes 39 at 5500 rpm but I have a 6 hp kicker, stereo, 24+6 fuel and cooler on board.

Dan

The Chesapeake Explorer posted 05-26-2005 10:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for The Chesapeake Explorer  Send Email to The Chesapeake Explorer     
Eels.. Thats the secret.. Potomac river was full of them then.. slick as a... eel thats it. Now no kicker, no bottom paint/ one person/21 pitch prop/ no cooler/ crisp fall day yes it was 50 mph that day.
fourdfish posted 05-26-2005 11:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for fourdfish  Send Email to fourdfish     
Does everyone really believe LHG when he says he was not dumping on the E-TEC???
LHG posted 05-27-2005 12:20 AM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
Any does anybody believe this fellow is not dumping on me. He should know, as most here do, that if it's made in Wisconsin, it's all right by me.
bigjohn1 posted 05-27-2005 01:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for bigjohn1  Send Email to bigjohn1     
Some folks seem to make it a point to try and rattle your chain LHG...that's how I see it here. Based on most of your posts I have read, you are no doubt pro-Merc but you provide experienced and forthright feedback on a variety of topics that I for one have come to appreciate. The other guy is definitely pro-Etec and I wish him well with his engine. On this forum we have people who consistently contribute good info on a variety of topics and we have some who only show up to beat their pro-Etec chest and rattle your cage about Merc. Funny thing is, with time, most folks learn to summarily dismiss much of what comes from guys like this...no matter what the topic is.
jimh posted 05-27-2005 05:05 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
LHG--that is a great idea about the mounting hole dilemma and changing the vertical spacing. I added that to the FAQ.
fourdfish posted 05-27-2005 02:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for fourdfish  Send Email to fourdfish     
I read them as I see them.I respond to things I think are not honest facts. LHG infers things about the E-TEC that are not true. In a current thread he states that the 90hp E-TEC is really not putting out 90hp and that it is slower than the Merc, however he knows that Trailer Boats did comparison tests of several of the 90hp engines and E-TEC came out ahead.
Another example is when he tried to start a rumor that BRP intentionally used the wrong prop on the Verado to fix the E-TEC race.(even though someone from this forum was there) As everyone knows both Merc and E-TEC are from Wisc. bigjohn1-- If something goes wrong with my E-TEC I will be the first to tell everyone here. At least I state it when I think things are just my opinion.
j_h_nimrod posted 06-04-2005 08:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for j_h_nimrod  Send Email to j_h_nimrod     
This spring we replaced our 1994 Evinrude 88SPL with a 2004 E-Tec (factory built Feb. 2005). I have loved every minute after the change. The new engine, with the same prop as the old engine, puts out ~10+ mph at WOT. Granted, the old 'rude was work worn and tired.

The differences in the motors are phenomenal. The new E-Tec is *very* quite in comparison, runs smoother, etc., etc., etc. I could go on and on.

One of the best attributes of the new motor is the fuel/oil economy. In the first ~46 hours of operation we have only burned ~1 gallon of XD100 oil (oil setting was still set at the standard TC-W3 oil setting). I have now changed the oil setting to XD100 so we should realize even more oil economy. The fuel savings have been very great too. With the old 88SPL we could run ~24 miles lightly loaded in mild seas on 6 gallons of fuel. With the new engine we run 24+ miles loaded with 3 people, 18 gallons of gas, and ~800-1000 lbs. of gear.

The only thing that I liked better about the older motor was the trim/tilt system. The old fast tilt and slow trim was nice. The E-Tec's one medium speed trim/tilt just does not do it for me.

All things considered the new motor is great. Once I do some speed trials with various props I will post it here for all to see.

ratherwhalering posted 06-06-2005 02:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for ratherwhalering  Send Email to ratherwhalering     
That's interesting...My 2004 E-TEC has a two speed trim/tilt.
whalersailer posted 06-06-2005 03:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalersailer  Send Email to whalersailer     
My 2005 is a single speed.

I wonder if the single speed maybe weighs less (1 ram instead of 3?)

-WS

seasaw posted 06-17-2005 08:58 AM ET (US)     Profile for seasaw  Send Email to seasaw     
Well, I am back. I started this topic and it sure took off. after waiting for my motor, which came in two weeks ago (and was built only 40 days ago), I was finally able to get the boat "wet" yesterday. to summarize, I had a Merc 125 on a 1986 Montauk and I replaced that motor with a 90 hp E-TEC saltwater series with a Stiletto 13.25 x 15 prop. They used the same mounting holes as the 94 MERC used and the motor appears to be mounted as low as it could go. yesterday was very cool here in NH and I went to a lake that I never had boated on because it was close. The motor is very quiet, and it ran terrific. I had 375 lbs of crew on board and approx 14 gallons of fuel. tremendous hole shot, great acceleration up to 5,000 rpm's. I was not able to get above 5,000 rpm's and I will check the tach setting tomorrow to see if it is set on "6". It was only a twenty minute ride but it sure felt good to be back on the water. Tomorrow the boat heads to the Cape where it will spend the summer and get lots of use. The boat handled very well and had more than adequate power. I will try to borrow a GPS to check top speed.
whalersailer posted 06-17-2005 11:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for whalersailer  Send Email to whalersailer     
Seasaw,

Where does the cavitation plate sit with respect to the lowest point on the transom?

It should be 1-2" above the bottom of the "V". If it is below the bottom of the "V", I would fully expect to see the results you're seeing (only able to pull 5K rpm).

-WS

seasaw posted 06-17-2005 02:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for seasaw  Send Email to seasaw     
WS
thanks for the quick reply! I went home at lunch and measured as well as i could with the boat on the trailer. when the cavitation plate is parallel to mother earth, it is about even with the bottom of the transom. i also noticed that the trim limiter rod was in the second hole and thus the motor may have been trimmed in way too far. it was about 48 degrees out when i tried it and playing with trim etc was not in the cards on that day. do you think this or the tach setting (i will check that tomorrow) would effect max rpm's? the boat handled very well and had plenty of top speed (eye watering speed!)
thanks
ratherwhalering posted 06-17-2005 03:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for ratherwhalering  Send Email to ratherwhalering     
Seasaw, I think your boat will operate up to your maximum RPMs (5500), if you raise the engine one or two settings. I believe you are currently in a acceptable RPM range, however there is increased drag from the lower unit at mid-to-high speed. In essence, the engine is fighting the drag of the lower end. If you raise the engine, you can optimize your speed and performance, however you will naturally reduce the "bite" of the propeller. My E-TECs anti-cavitation plate is about 3-inches above the lowest transom point, and I notice that in large swell, tight turns, or following seas, my engine will cavitate (lose its bite) slightly. This is a trade off for better fuel economy, less engine strain, and 42MPH at 5500 RPM.
KDW posted 06-17-2005 06:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for KDW  Send Email to KDW     
I'd recommend trying a 19P and see how she runs. I had a '98 Montauk with a 100 HP Merc. and ran a SS 17. Hole shot and pull was great, but couldn't get max RPM at WOT. Changed to Solas 19P and it worked perfect. Good hole shot and max. RPM at WOT (Motor mounted one hole up).

I put a 19P Viper on my new E-Tec 90 ('70 Nauset) and see max. RPM at WOT as well. Probably not the cure-all prop., but it sure works for me. However, also agree that raising your motor can help the RPMs.

KW

davej14 posted 06-17-2005 08:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for davej14  Send Email to davej14     
KDW,

When increasing pitch from 17 to 19 you would expect WOT RPM's to decrease and not increase. What is missing here?

KDW posted 06-21-2005 01:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for KDW  Send Email to KDW     
Davej14,

You're correct about the prop. One of those fastly written E-mails when my fingers aren't connected to my brain.

I mean't to say I couldn't get max speed and not RPM with the 17P prop.

Thanks for pointing out my error.

KW

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