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Author Topic:   HPDI oil

Eddie Mucciolo posted 02-17-2006 01:36 PM ET (US)
The dealer told me I was to use only Yamaha oil for this motor (2002 150 HPDI) otherwise, other brand oils would foul the engine to a no run condition and, I would have to flush the entire system and clean the cylinders. If you own an HPDI would you please comment. Thank you.
SIM posted 02-17-2006 03:23 PM ET (US)
Eddie,
If the oil in question meet the Yamaha spec, I realy don't see how that could happen. Now if you are using waste oil :^0 then I could see a problem. All though Yamaha very highly reccomends the use of there own lubricants, I don't see anywhere where it is mandated or "must be used" to keep a warranty in effect.

Just as important in my opinion is the constant use of the fuel additive "Ring Free" but you probably already knew that if not, I bet Paul does! :^) jk Yamaha's Ring Free is a carbon build up preventer.
Andy
gf posted 02-17-2006 10:44 PM ET (US)

Now, Andy is a Yamaha dealer whose opinion I value very much, however, I would not consider putting anything but Yamalube 2-M oil in my 2004 150 HPDI.
The difference in price between the Yamaha branded product and some generic brand is very minor compared to the total cost of boat ownership.
Eddie Mucciolo posted 02-17-2006 10:50 PM ET (US)
I did not know if the HPDI was more sensitive than other Yamaha 2S's.Thank you.
SIM posted 02-18-2006 10:25 AM ET (US)
After I read what I posted, I kind of made the implication that any 2-stroke oil is OK. That may be but you are correct GF $10,000 engine I would use what the manufactuer recommends to use. Should have made that clearer.
Anyone have any experience with full synthetics and Yamaha HPDI's?
Andy
The Machinery Killer posted 02-25-2006 07:50 PM ET (US)
Greetings Eddie,
A few years ago while working for one of the three engine manufacturers in the US I had a conversation relating to filters while the engine was still under warranty. The customers wanted to put on after market brand filters while the engine was still under warranty and in the process of looking out for the customer I said do not do this. After a few rounds, I then said, “Let me check with the manufacturers warranty office in order to verify this.” I then explained the situation and was given the following response “In a warranty situation the customer may use what ever they want to use at their expense after all they bought and own the machine. If at anytime, the customer uses a filter from another manufacturer and the filter collapses preventing the flow of oil to the engine we will warranty the failure based on the customer using OUR filter. If the customer decides to use someone else’s filter and the filter collapses preventing the flow of oil to the customer just bought this repair.”
In the situation with regards to petroleum products such as the actual lubricant, I have been out on my own for several years and know more about those whom I compete against then they would care for me to know. Regardless of engine manufacturer of the big three it is merely the same clowns different circus. Each has their own little way of making the customer think that the extended warranty is more important then anything yet when the independent tries to file a warranty claim for the failure consider the following phrase “Six Sigma”. What ever we do not have to pay we will not pay since that would affect our bottom line.
The engine manufacturers will do every thing possible to make sure the failure was directly related to neglect in order not to pay the claim so the burden of proof lies in the ability to document copiously during the failure analysis.
With the oils there is only one manufacturer worth their weight and have the independent laboratory wear analysis personnel also making the same recommendations. My choice hands down is always Chevron so the situation is I would contact the Chevron Lubrication Tech Line at 1-800-582-3835 and from there provide them the specifications needed to meet by the engine manufacturer and they will tell you exactly what to do if it is possible. I have used them many times in the past without a problem even and I hope this helps.

Semper Paratus,
Joe
macfam posted 02-26-2006 09:11 AM ET (US)
Eddie,
Don't know about brand x oils and an HPDI.
My brother has a 2000 200hp HPDI on a 22 ft.
I have the 250hp OX66. I buy Yamalube 2M oil from a Yammie dealer that fortunately sells it in bulk out of a 55gal drum.
So I just refill my gal containers over an over.
Another neighbor with twins buys by the case, so he has supplied me with lots of empty gallon jugs.
I buy enough for both my brother and I at the beginning of the season. Last year only $11.50 per gallon. I suspect it's a lot more now.
One thing for sure: The HPDI sips oil compared to my OX66.
It's quite remarkable how little they use, and of course fuel consumption is far better too.
For the money, and the little oil the HPDI uses, my suggestion is to stick with Yamalube 2M.
Use the maintenance dose of Yamaha Ring Free at every fill-up. Both of our motors have been flawless for the past 5 years. Wouldn't change a thing.
Eddie Mucciolo posted 03-04-2006 12:23 PM ET (US)
Thank you for the input. This is a great help.
oroseiwhaler posted 03-06-2006 05:27 AM ET (US)
Hi Eddie,
i have (had) on my Outrage 23 2 HPDI 150 from 2001 with 250 hours. The run flawless untill last september when one motor broke without any notice on full speed @ 5000 rpm.
First we guessed that one injector was bad and had burned a hole in the piston, but as we opened the motor we saw the mess. It seems that one piston ring was sticking due to heavy oilcarbon buildup and the hooked on the exhausthole on the cylinder and then: bang. The mecanic says that the carbon build-up comes from the use of "bad" an no sintetic oil and that i never used some cylinder cleaning stuff or ring free.
I used always premium grade TCW-3 mineral Outboard oils from various producers like Shell.
Repair will be around 5000-6000 USD, the guarantee ended 6 months before and the actual value ist the same, so i will sell the good parts for spare parts and buy new motors.
So this means to me that at least the HPDI is quite sensible to carbon build-ups, maybe under the circumstances with heavy loads and cruising speeds between 3000-4000rpm like i have often.
From my point of view, modern DI 2-stroke motors getting sensible like that, their future will be limited and that is the reason that i wont consider anymore any 2-stroke O/B.

So believe your dealer and use the Yamaha stuff.
Chris
Eddie Mucciolo posted 03-10-2006 10:41 AM ET (US)
Excellent. Thank you.
PeteB88 posted 03-11-2006 12:40 AM ET (US)
Killer's comments are excellent. In my experience with my 40 Yamaha switching to Yamalube made a significant difference - very noticable in terms of smoother running. I also followed Sal's decarbonization procedure to the letter.
I typically add Seafoam to every tank but will be trying out Ring Free - I am trying to find a source with reasonable pricing.
I am not sure if Ring Free is superior to Sea Foam which I use in all my power stuff - snow blower, mower, tiller, whacker etc - It makes a big difference.
best

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Author	Topic: HPDI oil
Eddie Mucciolo	posted 02-17-2006 01:36 PM ET (US) The dealer told me I was to use only Yamaha oil for this motor (2002 150 HPDI) otherwise, other brand oils would foul the engine to a no run condition and, I would have to flush the entire system and clean the cylinders. If you own an HPDI would you please comment. Thank you.
SIM	posted 02-17-2006 03:23 PM ET (US) Eddie, If the oil in question meet the Yamaha spec, I realy don't see how that could happen. Now if you are using waste oil :^0 then I could see a problem. All though Yamaha very highly reccomends the use of there own lubricants, I don't see anywhere where it is mandated or "must be used" to keep a warranty in effect. Just as important in my opinion is the constant use of the fuel additive "Ring Free" but you probably already knew that if not, I bet Paul does! :^) jk Yamaha's Ring Free is a carbon build up preventer. Andy
gf	posted 02-17-2006 10:44 PM ET (US) Now, Andy is a Yamaha dealer whose opinion I value very much, however, I would not consider putting anything but Yamalube 2-M oil in my 2004 150 HPDI. The difference in price between the Yamaha branded product and some generic brand is very minor compared to the total cost of boat ownership.
Eddie Mucciolo	posted 02-17-2006 10:50 PM ET (US) I did not know if the HPDI was more sensitive than other Yamaha 2S's.Thank you.
SIM	posted 02-18-2006 10:25 AM ET (US) After I read what I posted, I kind of made the implication that any 2-stroke oil is OK. That may be but you are correct GF $10,000 engine I would use what the manufactuer recommends to use. Should have made that clearer. Anyone have any experience with full synthetics and Yamaha HPDI's? Andy
The Machinery Killer	posted 02-25-2006 07:50 PM ET (US) Greetings Eddie, A few years ago while working for one of the three engine manufacturers in the US I had a conversation relating to filters while the engine was still under warranty. The customers wanted to put on after market brand filters while the engine was still under warranty and in the process of looking out for the customer I said do not do this. After a few rounds, I then said, “Let me check with the manufacturers warranty office in order to verify this.” I then explained the situation and was given the following response “In a warranty situation the customer may use what ever they want to use at their expense after all they bought and own the machine. If at anytime, the customer uses a filter from another manufacturer and the filter collapses preventing the flow of oil to the engine we will warranty the failure based on the customer using OUR filter. If the customer decides to use someone else’s filter and the filter collapses preventing the flow of oil to the customer just bought this repair.” In the situation with regards to petroleum products such as the actual lubricant, I have been out on my own for several years and know more about those whom I compete against then they would care for me to know. Regardless of engine manufacturer of the big three it is merely the same clowns different circus. Each has their own little way of making the customer think that the extended warranty is more important then anything yet when the independent tries to file a warranty claim for the failure consider the following phrase “Six Sigma”. What ever we do not have to pay we will not pay since that would affect our bottom line. The engine manufacturers will do every thing possible to make sure the failure was directly related to neglect in order not to pay the claim so the burden of proof lies in the ability to document copiously during the failure analysis. With the oils there is only one manufacturer worth their weight and have the independent laboratory wear analysis personnel also making the same recommendations. My choice hands down is always Chevron so the situation is I would contact the Chevron Lubrication Tech Line at 1-800-582-3835 and from there provide them the specifications needed to meet by the engine manufacturer and they will tell you exactly what to do if it is possible. I have used them many times in the past without a problem even and I hope this helps. Semper Paratus, Joe
macfam	posted 02-26-2006 09:11 AM ET (US) Eddie, Don't know about brand x oils and an HPDI. My brother has a 2000 200hp HPDI on a 22 ft. I have the 250hp OX66. I buy Yamalube 2M oil from a Yammie dealer that fortunately sells it in bulk out of a 55gal drum. So I just refill my gal containers over an over. Another neighbor with twins buys by the case, so he has supplied me with lots of empty gallon jugs. I buy enough for both my brother and I at the beginning of the season. Last year only $11.50 per gallon. I suspect it's a lot more now. One thing for sure: The HPDI sips oil compared to my OX66. It's quite remarkable how little they use, and of course fuel consumption is far better too. For the money, and the little oil the HPDI uses, my suggestion is to stick with Yamalube 2M. Use the maintenance dose of Yamaha Ring Free at every fill-up. Both of our motors have been flawless for the past 5 years. Wouldn't change a thing.
Eddie Mucciolo	posted 03-04-2006 12:23 PM ET (US) Thank you for the input. This is a great help.
oroseiwhaler	posted 03-06-2006 05:27 AM ET (US) Hi Eddie, i have (had) on my Outrage 23 2 HPDI 150 from 2001 with 250 hours. The run flawless untill last september when one motor broke without any notice on full speed @ 5000 rpm. First we guessed that one injector was bad and had burned a hole in the piston, but as we opened the motor we saw the mess. It seems that one piston ring was sticking due to heavy oilcarbon buildup and the hooked on the exhausthole on the cylinder and then: bang. The mecanic says that the carbon build-up comes from the use of "bad" an no sintetic oil and that i never used some cylinder cleaning stuff or ring free. I used always premium grade TCW-3 mineral Outboard oils from various producers like Shell. Repair will be around 5000-6000 USD, the guarantee ended 6 months before and the actual value ist the same, so i will sell the good parts for spare parts and buy new motors. So this means to me that at least the HPDI is quite sensible to carbon build-ups, maybe under the circumstances with heavy loads and cruising speeds between 3000-4000rpm like i have often. From my point of view, modern DI 2-stroke motors getting sensible like that, their future will be limited and that is the reason that i wont consider anymore any 2-stroke O/B. So believe your dealer and use the Yamaha stuff. Chris
Eddie Mucciolo	posted 03-10-2006 10:41 AM ET (US) Excellent. Thank you.
PeteB88	posted 03-11-2006 12:40 AM ET (US) Killer's comments are excellent. In my experience with my 40 Yamaha switching to Yamalube made a significant difference - very noticable in terms of smoother running. I also followed Sal's decarbonization procedure to the letter. I typically add Seafoam to every tank but will be trying out Ring Free - I am trying to find a source with reasonable pricing. I am not sure if Ring Free is superior to Sea Foam which I use in all my power stuff - snow blower, mower, tiller, whacker etc - It makes a big difference. best