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Author Topic:   OUTRAGE 18: 150-HP: Propeller

boatdaze posted 03-12-2006 05:01 PM ET (US)
Since this site has provided me tons of info, I seek more. I just re-powered my Outrage 18 with a new Yamaha 150-HP OX-66 with a 25" shaft. I now need a prop. I use the boat for mostly cruising, with the occasional water skiier behind it.
Thanks in advance for all advise.
jimh posted 03-12-2006 06:59 PM ET (US)
Try a 19-inch three-blade for starters.
Tom W Clark posted 03-12-2006 09:45 PM ET (US)
I agree with Jim, 19".
Be sure to try a Mercury Mirage Plus, a Yamaha SWS, a Yamaha M-19 and a Stiletto Advantage II.
gf posted 03-12-2006 11:01 PM ET (US)

See if you can borrow these stainless wheels from your local dealer:
15.25" X 17 Yamaha Saltwater Series
14.25" X 18 Yamaha Performance Series
You want to prop that OX66 to spin up to about 5700 RPM with a real light load, that way with a typical load on board you can reach the 5500 RPM recommended WOT.

Tom W Clark posted 03-13-2006 11:04 AM ET (US)
17" and 18" of pitch are not enough. The 15.25 x 17 Yamaha SWS will be too short a prop. You'll need the 15.25 x 19 SWS.
Tom W Clark posted 03-13-2006 11:37 AM ET (US)
And this could work very well too:
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/010805.html
You are welcome to try it out and see how it performs if you don't mind paying the postage to get it to you.
I also have some 17" (Mercury Mirage Plus, Yamaha M-17) props you could try, but I really don't that will be enough.
Peter posted 03-13-2006 12:17 PM ET (US)
I agree that ordinarily a 17 inch pitch propeller would not be enough pitch for a 150 on an 18 Outrage. The 150 Johnson on my 18 Outrage was equipped with a 14 1/4D x 20P OMC Raker with the motor set two holes up. It would turn about 5100 to 5200 RPM.
Based on recent discussions of a Stiletto propeller used on a 90 E-TEC suggesting that the actual pitch of the Stiletto propeller is greater than designated, I wonder whether the designated pitch of a Stilletto Advantage II tried in this application should be 17 instead of 19 inches.
RJG posted 03-13-2006 05:12 PM ET (US)
I have a carberated 150 Yamaha on my 18 Outrage and run a Yamaha M series 13 3/4 x 19 SS. Boat turns to 5000RPM (RPM range 4000-5000). The Yamaha SWS series is not recommended for a 150 per Yamaha's web site. The Performance Series may a good choice in a 13 3/4 x 18. If I were to frequently pull a skier, I might drop down to a 17 pitch though the 19 will yank me right out of the ski bindings if the throttle is hammered.
zpeed7 posted 03-13-2006 07:21 PM ET (US)
Boatdaze here are some numbers for you, I ordered this prop after some GREAT advice from Sal diMercurio. I was going with a 19 but he recommended 17 pitch, and for me it's perfect. I use the boat mainly to fish offshore, and where the older prop used to bog down or had difficulty pushing through larger waves this one just pushes through without missing a beat. It feels like 4x4 on water.
Boat: 1985 18' Outrage
Engine: 1994 150 Evinrude. Mounted one hole up.
Prop: Stilleto ADVANTAGE II 14 1/4 X 17. (Bought it from Overton's at a great price.)
Conditions: About 1' chop.
Top End: 44.9 MPH by GPS.
RPM :4900 - 5000 ? I still have to figure this one out. I think there might be something wrong with the tachometer? Any idea guys?
Tank was half full, two people on board, bottom painted.
Guil
Tom W Clark posted 03-14-2006 10:14 AM ET (US)
Very good information and ideas guys.
Peter,
I think you make a good point about the effective pitch of the Stiletto Advantage IIs. But I also know form personal experience that the 19" Stiletto Advantage II is very comparable to the 19" Mirage and Mirage Plus props in terms of their maximum RPMs on a given motor.
When testing props on my own Revenge 25 with twin 2 liter 150s I found both the 19" Stiletto Advantage II and the 19" Mirage Plus allowed my motors to spin right up to 5500 RPM, my motor's redline.
I think this happens because the blade area on the Stiletto is much smaller than the Mirage Plus so there is a fair trade-off between blade area and pitch; increases either parameter will tend to add resistance and retard RPMs.
RJG,
I find that comment about the Yamaha SWS not being recommended for the 150 very surprising. The Yamaha SWS propeller appear to very similar to the Mercury Mirage Plus. My old 2 liter 150s have not trouble at all turning the Mirage Plus, in fact (so far) they are the best performing props on my boat.
boatdaze,
If you want to take the advice about a 17" prop and try it, I have a like-new Stiletto Advantage II 14.25" x 17" I would be happy to loan you for trials. I also have a Yamaha M-series 13.75" x 17" you could try in addition to the aforementioned 19" Mirage.
Tom W Clark posted 03-14-2006 11:46 AM ET (US)
Stop the presses! I want to make sure some confusion has not crept into this conversation.
RJG,
You say: "The Yamaha SWS series is not recommended for a 150 per Yamaha's web site."
I looked at their web site and that is (apparently) true of the current Yamaha 150 Four Stroke with is a four cylinder motor grouped with their F115, but do you realize we are talking here about a Yamaha 150 OX66 which is a V-6 outboard? Does your comment still apply?
Q: Is the gearcase of the Yamaha F150 Four Stroke a V-6 sized gearcase? In other works does it accept an M-series prop or a K-series prop? My understanding is the former.
Tom W Clark posted 03-14-2006 12:03 PM ET (US)
I think I have answered my own question. A few months ago I sold a Stiletto Advantage II 14.25" x 19" prop to Ron Giachello for use on his Outrage 18 with a new F150 four stroke.
Ron reported that the Stiletto performed a little bit better than the M-series 13.75 x 19 prop he had on there before. He is able to get 46 MPH out of the boat (bottom paint and all) with a full tank of gas!
https://home.comcast.net/~rjgorion/Outrage%2018.htm
RJG posted 03-14-2006 12:55 PM ET (US)
Tom
I just looked again at the Yamaha wed site and for the Yamaha SWS M series it says The prop will fit V-6 engines from 150 to 225 hp but is not normally recomended for the 150. I have a Yamaha SWS and a regular Yamaha M series stainless prop for my Revenge 22 WT WD. They are both 15 1/4 X 15 props but the difference is significant. Though the numbers are the same, the SWS is a much bigger prop. Bigger blades, bigger rake. I have side by side photos that I will email to you since I don't know how to post them here. Maybe you can do it.
Roarque posted 03-14-2006 02:48 PM ET (US)
boatdaze, I just did the same thing and the dealer that rigged the F150 listened patiently to my input, most of which came from this forum, and then took my Outrage out on the Pacific ocean and tried out three props. He chose the one that rev'd at 5800 rpm WOT - 44 mph on the Yamaha speedo.
If you'd like, I'll check out the prop specs when I'm at the marina this PM and send you an e-mail. I know it's a Yamaha SS that I asked them to paint black but I can't remember the pitch.
My daughter and I took the boat out on Sunday and she opened it up to WOT for 2 minutes and scared the bejeebers out of both of us. That was on a calm ocean 44 mph.
Yesterday, I installed a Lowrance LMS-339 CDF GPS/Sounder and will check the speed with that device when the ocean is calm again.
Tom W Clark posted 03-14-2006 03:10 PM ET (US)
Again, I want to remind everyone that boatdaze has a 150 HP OX66 Two Stroke, not an F150 Four Stroke.
Both motors use a 2:1 gear ratio, but the OX66 has a 5500 RPM redline while the F150 has a 6000 RPM redline. I suspect the OX66 may turn a slightly higher pitch prop.
Peter posted 03-14-2006 03:42 PM ET (US)
Tom -- The current saltwater carbureted version of the Yamaha 150 V6 2-stroke motor uses a 1.86:1 ratio with a redline of 5500 RPM. I think the saltwater version of the Ox66 150 also used the 1.86:1 gear ratio with a 5500 RPM redline.
The carbureted version of the 150 Vmax uses a 2:1 gear ratio and has a redline of 6000 RPM. Because this only comes in a 20 inch shaft length, I doubt it would be used on an 18 Outrage.
The F150 uses a 2:1 ratio but has a 6000 RPM redline.
Tom W Clark posted 03-14-2006 04:45 PM ET (US)
Peter,
You are quite right. So with the 1.86:1 gear ratio but lower redline these two motors really should use comparable propellers, no?
Peter posted 03-14-2006 06:03 PM ET (US)
I think its very likely that an 150 Ox66 would use the same propeller as the F150 on the same application, such an Outrage 18 in this case.
rjgorion posted 03-14-2006 08:20 PM ET (US)
Tom,
the F 150 does have the V6 gear case, which uses the "M" series props. And, you are right, the Siletto 14.25 x 19" performs better in terms of quickness of acceleration throughout the rpm range than the Yamaha 14 x 19 black steel. However, When I tested the Stiletto, the top speed with a full tank of fuel was about the same as the top speed the Yamaha prop turned with half as much fuel in the tank. So I think pound for pound (of load), the Stiletto is a better overall performer on the Outrage 18 with the F 150. How we can compare this with the 150 ox66 I'm not sure but at least the numbers are there to think about.
Ron
Roarque posted 03-15-2006 12:06 PM ET (US)
My prop has 17M on the outer body, not blade.
Tom W Clark posted 03-15-2006 12:30 PM ET (US)
Greg,
Thanks for the first hand experience. I was a little surprised to see you have a 17" prop but running the numbers through the prop calculator I see that it makes sense with about a 6 percent slip factor.
So based on all the comments above I'm inclined to retract my initial reaction to this thread's question and agree with gf that perhaps a 17" prop is in order.
I'm also thinking a large diameter prop like SWS or Mirage Plus will be too much.
That said, I have a Yamaha 17M and a 17" Stiletto Advantage II I need to sell. Both props like new.
boatdaze, you are welcome to try one or both of them out if you like.
wwbach posted 11-08-2006 11:27 AM ET (US)
Boatdaze, What did you end up with for a prop? I’m repowering an 18 Outrage with a 2003 Yamaha carb 2-stroke on a 10” setback and thinking about going with the 19” Stiletto per Tom’s recommendation. Comments anyone? -- Bud
ratherwhalering posted 11-08-2006 12:50 PM ET (US)
I'm not sure if this helps, but I installed 14.25 x 17 Stiletto Advantage II props on a 28-foot Protector (6500Lbs dry weight) with twin Yamaha F150 engines. 5900 RPM at WOT.
wwbach posted 11-08-2006 03:23 PM ET (US)
ratherwhalering, Not sure that applies either but it did remind me that the rpm range on the 150txrb 2-stroke yamaha is 4500-5500. Personnal, I'd like to be towards the high end of that. I could also mention that the battery and oil tank is in the console. -- Bud
Tom W Clark posted 11-09-2006 12:10 PM ET (US)
Bud,
I still have a virtually new Yamaha Performance Series 14-1/4" x 18" that I would like to sell.
wwbach posted 11-09-2006 02:18 PM ET (US)
Tom, I'm leaning towards that Yamaha prop. Is there anyone else using it or has tried it on an 18 outrage? -- bud
wwbach posted 11-16-2006 10:30 AM ET (US)
On further review with Tom Clark off line, I've decided to go with a 17" Standard Black Steel Series Yamaha Propeller that Tom had. Hopefully this will be a good starting point. I'll report back when I get a chance (maybe next year!).
-- Bud
SIM posted 11-17-2006 02:17 PM ET (US)
WW,
I have had the best overall results with the smaller diameter black SS 17 or 19 Yamaha props on either the F150 or Z150 (HPDI) powered 18 Outrage's. Pitch depending on how the owner typically uses the boat. 45-50 mph depending on load ect.
Yamaha also has introduced the Reliance propellers which a are very close replacements for the black SS versions. The biggest difference being that they are polished. They do not seem to perform any better then the black SS version, but they are polished if that matters. Prices are similar.
I have not given any of the non-OEM props a try, but it seems that Tom has and has some pretty good info to back it up.

Andy
wwbach posted 11-29-2006 11:47 AM ET (US)
See my thread "C-Duced gets repowered" but the key point for this thread is:
"Tom Clark hooked me up with a Standard 17" Yamaha Stainless Prop (Black) and it proved to be just the ticket. Properly trimmed I was right on 5500 which is the top of the range for this motor [1.86 gears, 1/2 tank, battery and oil tank in the console; no real gear in the boat except for a toolbox]. "
-- Bud

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Author	Topic: OUTRAGE 18: 150-HP: Propeller
boatdaze	posted 03-12-2006 05:01 PM ET (US) Since this site has provided me tons of info, I seek more. I just re-powered my Outrage 18 with a new Yamaha 150-HP OX-66 with a 25" shaft. I now need a prop. I use the boat for mostly cruising, with the occasional water skiier behind it. Thanks in advance for all advise.
jimh	posted 03-12-2006 06:59 PM ET (US) Try a 19-inch three-blade for starters.
Tom W Clark	posted 03-12-2006 09:45 PM ET (US) I agree with Jim, 19". Be sure to try a Mercury Mirage Plus, a Yamaha SWS, a Yamaha M-19 and a Stiletto Advantage II.
gf	posted 03-12-2006 11:01 PM ET (US) See if you can borrow these stainless wheels from your local dealer: 15.25" X 17 Yamaha Saltwater Series 14.25" X 18 Yamaha Performance Series You want to prop that OX66 to spin up to about 5700 RPM with a real light load, that way with a typical load on board you can reach the 5500 RPM recommended WOT.
Tom W Clark	posted 03-13-2006 11:04 AM ET (US) 17" and 18" of pitch are not enough. The 15.25 x 17 Yamaha SWS will be too short a prop. You'll need the 15.25 x 19 SWS.
Tom W Clark	posted 03-13-2006 11:37 AM ET (US) And this could work very well too: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/010805.html You are welcome to try it out and see how it performs if you don't mind paying the postage to get it to you. I also have some 17" (Mercury Mirage Plus, Yamaha M-17) props you could try, but I really don't that will be enough.
Peter	posted 03-13-2006 12:17 PM ET (US) I agree that ordinarily a 17 inch pitch propeller would not be enough pitch for a 150 on an 18 Outrage. The 150 Johnson on my 18 Outrage was equipped with a 14 1/4D x 20P OMC Raker with the motor set two holes up. It would turn about 5100 to 5200 RPM. Based on recent discussions of a Stiletto propeller used on a 90 E-TEC suggesting that the actual pitch of the Stiletto propeller is greater than designated, I wonder whether the designated pitch of a Stilletto Advantage II tried in this application should be 17 instead of 19 inches.
RJG	posted 03-13-2006 05:12 PM ET (US) I have a carberated 150 Yamaha on my 18 Outrage and run a Yamaha M series 13 3/4 x 19 SS. Boat turns to 5000RPM (RPM range 4000-5000). The Yamaha SWS series is not recommended for a 150 per Yamaha's web site. The Performance Series may a good choice in a 13 3/4 x 18. If I were to frequently pull a skier, I might drop down to a 17 pitch though the 19 will yank me right out of the ski bindings if the throttle is hammered.
zpeed7	posted 03-13-2006 07:21 PM ET (US) Boatdaze here are some numbers for you, I ordered this prop after some GREAT advice from Sal diMercurio. I was going with a 19 but he recommended 17 pitch, and for me it's perfect. I use the boat mainly to fish offshore, and where the older prop used to bog down or had difficulty pushing through larger waves this one just pushes through without missing a beat. It feels like 4x4 on water. Boat: 1985 18' Outrage Engine: 1994 150 Evinrude. Mounted one hole up. Prop: Stilleto ADVANTAGE II 14 1/4 X 17. (Bought it from Overton's at a great price.) Conditions: About 1' chop. Top End: 44.9 MPH by GPS. RPM :4900 - 5000 ? I still have to figure this one out. I think there might be something wrong with the tachometer? Any idea guys? Tank was half full, two people on board, bottom painted. Guil
Tom W Clark	posted 03-14-2006 10:14 AM ET (US) Very good information and ideas guys. Peter, I think you make a good point about the effective pitch of the Stiletto Advantage IIs. But I also know form personal experience that the 19" Stiletto Advantage II is very comparable to the 19" Mirage and Mirage Plus props in terms of their maximum RPMs on a given motor. When testing props on my own Revenge 25 with twin 2 liter 150s I found both the 19" Stiletto Advantage II and the 19" Mirage Plus allowed my motors to spin right up to 5500 RPM, my motor's redline. I think this happens because the blade area on the Stiletto is much smaller than the Mirage Plus so there is a fair trade-off between blade area and pitch; increases either parameter will tend to add resistance and retard RPMs. RJG, I find that comment about the Yamaha SWS not being recommended for the 150 very surprising. The Yamaha SWS propeller appear to very similar to the Mercury Mirage Plus. My old 2 liter 150s have not trouble at all turning the Mirage Plus, in fact (so far) they are the best performing props on my boat. boatdaze, If you want to take the advice about a 17" prop and try it, I have a like-new Stiletto Advantage II 14.25" x 17" I would be happy to loan you for trials. I also have a Yamaha M-series 13.75" x 17" you could try in addition to the aforementioned 19" Mirage.
Tom W Clark	posted 03-14-2006 11:46 AM ET (US) Stop the presses! I want to make sure some confusion has not crept into this conversation. RJG, You say: "The Yamaha SWS series is not recommended for a 150 per Yamaha's web site." I looked at their web site and that is (apparently) true of the current Yamaha 150 Four Stroke with is a four cylinder motor grouped with their F115, but do you realize we are talking here about a Yamaha 150 OX66 which is a V-6 outboard? Does your comment still apply? Q: Is the gearcase of the Yamaha F150 Four Stroke a V-6 sized gearcase? In other works does it accept an M-series prop or a K-series prop? My understanding is the former.
Tom W Clark	posted 03-14-2006 12:03 PM ET (US) I think I have answered my own question. A few months ago I sold a Stiletto Advantage II 14.25" x 19" prop to Ron Giachello for use on his Outrage 18 with a new F150 four stroke. Ron reported that the Stiletto performed a little bit better than the M-series 13.75 x 19 prop he had on there before. He is able to get 46 MPH out of the boat (bottom paint and all) with a full tank of gas! https://home.comcast.net/~rjgorion/Outrage%2018.htm
RJG	posted 03-14-2006 12:55 PM ET (US) Tom I just looked again at the Yamaha wed site and for the Yamaha SWS M series it says The prop will fit V-6 engines from 150 to 225 hp but is not normally recomended for the 150. I have a Yamaha SWS and a regular Yamaha M series stainless prop for my Revenge 22 WT WD. They are both 15 1/4 X 15 props but the difference is significant. Though the numbers are the same, the SWS is a much bigger prop. Bigger blades, bigger rake. I have side by side photos that I will email to you since I don't know how to post them here. Maybe you can do it.
Roarque	posted 03-14-2006 02:48 PM ET (US) boatdaze, I just did the same thing and the dealer that rigged the F150 listened patiently to my input, most of which came from this forum, and then took my Outrage out on the Pacific ocean and tried out three props. He chose the one that rev'd at 5800 rpm WOT - 44 mph on the Yamaha speedo. If you'd like, I'll check out the prop specs when I'm at the marina this PM and send you an e-mail. I know it's a Yamaha SS that I asked them to paint black but I can't remember the pitch. My daughter and I took the boat out on Sunday and she opened it up to WOT for 2 minutes and scared the bejeebers out of both of us. That was on a calm ocean 44 mph. Yesterday, I installed a Lowrance LMS-339 CDF GPS/Sounder and will check the speed with that device when the ocean is calm again.
Tom W Clark	posted 03-14-2006 03:10 PM ET (US) Again, I want to remind everyone that boatdaze has a 150 HP OX66 Two Stroke, not an F150 Four Stroke. Both motors use a 2:1 gear ratio, but the OX66 has a 5500 RPM redline while the F150 has a 6000 RPM redline. I suspect the OX66 may turn a slightly higher pitch prop.
Peter	posted 03-14-2006 03:42 PM ET (US) Tom -- The current saltwater carbureted version of the Yamaha 150 V6 2-stroke motor uses a 1.86:1 ratio with a redline of 5500 RPM. I think the saltwater version of the Ox66 150 also used the 1.86:1 gear ratio with a 5500 RPM redline. The carbureted version of the 150 Vmax uses a 2:1 gear ratio and has a redline of 6000 RPM. Because this only comes in a 20 inch shaft length, I doubt it would be used on an 18 Outrage. The F150 uses a 2:1 ratio but has a 6000 RPM redline.
Tom W Clark	posted 03-14-2006 04:45 PM ET (US) Peter, You are quite right. So with the 1.86:1 gear ratio but lower redline these two motors really should use comparable propellers, no?
Peter	posted 03-14-2006 06:03 PM ET (US) I think its very likely that an 150 Ox66 would use the same propeller as the F150 on the same application, such an Outrage 18 in this case.
rjgorion	posted 03-14-2006 08:20 PM ET (US) Tom, the F 150 does have the V6 gear case, which uses the "M" series props. And, you are right, the Siletto 14.25 x 19" performs better in terms of quickness of acceleration throughout the rpm range than the Yamaha 14 x 19 black steel. However, When I tested the Stiletto, the top speed with a full tank of fuel was about the same as the top speed the Yamaha prop turned with half as much fuel in the tank. So I think pound for pound (of load), the Stiletto is a better overall performer on the Outrage 18 with the F 150. How we can compare this with the 150 ox66 I'm not sure but at least the numbers are there to think about. Ron
Roarque	posted 03-15-2006 12:06 PM ET (US) My prop has 17M on the outer body, not blade.
Tom W Clark	posted 03-15-2006 12:30 PM ET (US) Greg, Thanks for the first hand experience. I was a little surprised to see you have a 17" prop but running the numbers through the prop calculator I see that it makes sense with about a 6 percent slip factor. So based on all the comments above I'm inclined to retract my initial reaction to this thread's question and agree with gf that perhaps a 17" prop is in order. I'm also thinking a large diameter prop like SWS or Mirage Plus will be too much. That said, I have a Yamaha 17M and a 17" Stiletto Advantage II I need to sell. Both props like new. boatdaze, you are welcome to try one or both of them out if you like.
wwbach	posted 11-08-2006 11:27 AM ET (US) Boatdaze, What did you end up with for a prop? I’m repowering an 18 Outrage with a 2003 Yamaha carb 2-stroke on a 10” setback and thinking about going with the 19” Stiletto per Tom’s recommendation. Comments anyone? -- Bud
ratherwhalering	posted 11-08-2006 12:50 PM ET (US) I'm not sure if this helps, but I installed 14.25 x 17 Stiletto Advantage II props on a 28-foot Protector (6500Lbs dry weight) with twin Yamaha F150 engines. 5900 RPM at WOT.
wwbach	posted 11-08-2006 03:23 PM ET (US) ratherwhalering, Not sure that applies either but it did remind me that the rpm range on the 150txrb 2-stroke yamaha is 4500-5500. Personnal, I'd like to be towards the high end of that. I could also mention that the battery and oil tank is in the console. -- Bud
Tom W Clark	posted 11-09-2006 12:10 PM ET (US) Bud, I still have a virtually new Yamaha Performance Series 14-1/4" x 18" that I would like to sell.
wwbach	posted 11-09-2006 02:18 PM ET (US) Tom, I'm leaning towards that Yamaha prop. Is there anyone else using it or has tried it on an 18 outrage? -- bud
wwbach	posted 11-16-2006 10:30 AM ET (US) On further review with Tom Clark off line, I've decided to go with a 17" Standard Black Steel Series Yamaha Propeller that Tom had. Hopefully this will be a good starting point. I'll report back when I get a chance (maybe next year!). -- Bud
SIM	posted 11-17-2006 02:17 PM ET (US) WW, I have had the best overall results with the smaller diameter black SS 17 or 19 Yamaha props on either the F150 or Z150 (HPDI) powered 18 Outrage's. Pitch depending on how the owner typically uses the boat. 45-50 mph depending on load ect. Yamaha also has introduced the Reliance propellers which a are very close replacements for the black SS versions. The biggest difference being that they are polished. They do not seem to perform any better then the black SS version, but they are polished if that matters. Prices are similar. I have not given any of the non-OEM props a try, but it seems that Tom has and has some pretty good info to back it up. Andy
wwbach	posted 11-29-2006 11:47 AM ET (US) See my thread "C-Duced gets repowered" but the key point for this thread is: "Tom Clark hooked me up with a Standard 17" Yamaha Stainless Prop (Black) and it proved to be just the ticket. Properly trimmed I was right on 5500 which is the top of the range for this motor [1.86 gears, 1/2 tank, battery and oil tank in the console; no real gear in the boat except for a toolbox]. " -- Bud