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1990 OUTRAGE 22: E-TEC H.O.
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ContinuousWave Whaler Moderated Discussion Areas
ContinuousWave: Whaler Performance
1990 OUTRAGE 22: E-TEC H.O.
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| Author | Topic: 1990 OUTRAGE 22: E-TEC H.O. |
| RAY50LB |
posted 04-17-2006 10:26 PM ET (US)  
I re-powered my 1990 OUTRAGE 22 with a new E-TEC. I traded in a 2000 Evinrude 225-HP Ficht with about 1,000 hrs and $11,000 for a 2006 200 H.O. E-TEC "Demo" with some small scratches on the motor cover and about eight hours of running time. I also got a full three-year warranty plus the additional four-year extension. The deal included all taxes and installion on the boat, making it water ready. My Ficht gauges hooked right up and the orginal binnacle controls still match. I kept the four-blade Renagade Prop for now. I will see how that performs. That kept some of the expenses down. You guys are pretty sharp out there. Do you think I got a good price? The only real thing I am second guessing is dropping down to 200-HP from 225. The E-TEC representatives at the New York Boat Show tell me the 200 H. O. is more like 217-HP. I'll see. I will not take me long. I know my boat well. I know my boat and, at this point in time, the E-TEC is the choice for me and the kind of boating I do. The only real question was 225-HP or 200 H.O., and the deal came on the H. O.--that's what made up my mind. Thank You for your thoughts.--RB |
| jimh |
posted 04-17-2006 11:29 PM ET (US)
Let us know about the performance of your OUTRAGE 22 with the new E-TEC 200 H.O. motor. |
| The Judge |
posted 04-18-2006 02:01 PM ET (US)
Well...Ed's who is pretty reasonable has the new 200HO at $13,999. The 225 was $500 cheaper. I think the HO is a great engine but I thought they were more for lighter high-perf boats? Doubt it will make a big difference. |
| VI Jamie 22 |
posted 04-18-2006 09:19 PM ET (US)
I think you got a good deal. I do not respect ficht made by OMC. I do not take them on trade and generally try to get the owners to do what you did, buy a new Etec. If the ficht engine is made by BRP, I counsel that they keep it. As for power, one of my clients took 6 passengers to an island about 40 miles away. Due to a faulty battery switch, one of the 2, 200 etecs would not start on the 29 foot Stamas. This is a big beamy boat. They called me up to fix it over the phone, I could not. I told them to trim one up and come back. They were back in an hour and a half. The props are stock 17 inch aluminum props. These engines have more power than has ever been available in a stock engine. Another customer with twin 200s on 28 foot makos was complaining that whenever a new captain would take off with 6 passengers and was not careful, some people ended up on their butt. They found the way to avoid this is to creep one throttle, then the other, then creep the other etc. This way, nobody was caught by surprise. Again stock 17 al props. I hope you enjoy the thrill of alot of power, with reasonable noise and good economy. |
| Perry |
posted 04-19-2006 12:15 AM ET (US)
quote: More than a 275 HP Verado, a 300 HP Optimax or a 300 HP HPDI? |
| Peter |
posted 04-19-2006 07:35 AM ET (US)
I'm going to guess that what he meant by more power was that the Evinrude 3.3L V6 DFI 2-strokes have more low end torque than their prior carbureted 3.0L counterparts. A little history with respect to this increase in torque is that it led to a number of V6 gearcase failures when the then existing V6 gearcase was used with the increased displacement DFI V6 2-strokes. Ultimately, to handle the increased torque, the then existing V6 gearcase was replaced in the 2002 model year by the more robust Magnum gearcase. |
| RAY50LB |
posted 04-19-2006 11:00 AM ET (US)
Well thank you for those replies. I have had a long standing realationship with my dealer.Together through the years we come to understand the characteristics of my Whaler and MY fishing habits.So with the introduction of the 200HO E-TEC we decided to try it on my 22 outrage. Please note that I am a avid Stripebass fisherman and one of my loves is throwing plugs into a large surf,I also will drift very very closed to large rocks in a roaring tide so as you can imagine,that is why I like that quick acceleration. I have seen many posted questions on type 4 stroke-2 Stroke,one motor 2 motors, and horsepower of motor to use on specific size Whalers.I think some of the first considerations a Captain should make is how do I use my Boat.I also beleive that differnt manufactures have different characteristics and personalities besides the issue of horsepower or 2-4 stroke.I have read where some feel it is not about manufactures I disagree here. Also I might say that Hull model year is also very important.Earlier year Whalers are much more sensitive to transom weight,motor torque even size of prop than the newer model years.Example I have a 1990 Outrage that I bought in August of 1989 which reflects technology from 1988.The motors of those years had Less Weight Torque and horsepower was rated differently. I feel these are some important considerations that need to be made when repowring 15 years later. Mind you my only qualfication is the experience I have as a Whaler owner for the last 40 years and nothing more. You responces are welcomed. RB |
| andygere |
posted 04-19-2006 11:32 AM ET (US)
I've been running a 2.4 liter carburated Mercury 200 on my '89 Outrage 22 Cuddy, and performance has always been very strong out of the hole, with a top speed of around 40 mph. I decided to repower with a small block E-TEC 200 (2.6 liter) to keep my transom light, but I'm still waiting for the new motor to arrive. I think you will find the 200 H.O. will provide you with great accelleration and you won't be dissapointed. I took a ride on a Revenge 22 with an E-TEC 225, and performance out of the hole was downright scalding. Remember, you can always prop the boat to give you better low end. I have been running a 5 blade prop that gets the boat up fast, and has never blown out in rough conditions. The price with rigging seems fair. By the way, that's my kind of fishing. I used my sport 13 to plug for stripers in and around Nauset inlet many years ago. |
| RAY50LB |
posted 05-23-2006 10:36 PM ET (US)
Well getting back to you guys about the performance of my new E-TECK WOW it flies! I was originally concerned about down sizing to a 200 HO E-TECK from my 225 Ficht. I always like large motors so I can go slower and that is just what my HO is doing. I am able to hold trim at 2700 rpm it runs much smoother than any other motor I have ever had, it is also quite but not as quite as a 4 store but at 30mph all I hear is the wind anyway. I was told it would idle at 500rpm and it does so at an idle it is very quite. I also found that the lower end is redesigned to allow more water to get to the prop than my ficth and that also seems to be true. I am cavitating a lot less. I have the motor raised to the next to last hole on the mount and I am using the same prop so trimmed all the way up I get 5700RPM, normal trim is 5500rpm. I haven’t looked at my speed I really never do but I can tell you this the other day I opened it up and can tell you now it is a faster boat if that matters. There are other things I notice but feel they are only important to me but I will share them if you like. I am not really to tecky so there I am not of much help. I have owned Whalers for the last 40 years and just love to fish. I am impressed with the performance of this 200HO E-TECK but you can ask me at the end of the year how much I like it. I usually put about 250 hrs a year on my motor so I will so how the year goes. If there is any test you guys would like me to do let me know and I will and get back to you. RB |
| TheRaven |
posted 05-24-2006 05:15 PM ET (US)
Hope you guys will let me in here. Noticed the interesting chats about the E-TECs. While I do have a Whaler, I also have a Grady (20') that I just put a 200hp E-Tec on. It is a very nice but old (1993) Grady that I needed to repower. I called Grady White and they recommended that I not consider a 4 stroke due to weight. Older transoms wern't designed for the added weight of a 4 stroke. I did a lot of research and convinced myself that e-tec is the way to go. I opted for the small block 60 degree 200hp. It is 2.6l vs 3.3l for the larger 90 degree block. Weight is nearly 100 lbs less than the bigger bock which is nearly 100 lbs lighter than most 4 strokes. Had to wait a couple of months to get but it is now mounted and ready to go. Haven't been in it yet. Very anxious. It replaces a conventional 200 hp evinrude but is even lighter than it. Hope I haven't made a mistake by getting the small block version. Dealer gave a whirl with old 17" prop and it turned 5200 rpm. I have a question about the oil. I don't think dealer is correct in saying that to use XD100 oil the computer must be reprogrammed to use the 1/2 amount. I don't read the owner's manual that way. I read it to say if you use XD100 oil you CAN reprogram the computer to use 1/2 as much oil but it is not mandatory. My thoughts are to run it some with the full amount of oil consumption and later take it back to dealer to get it reprogrammed. Comments? |
| nytugcapt |
posted 05-24-2006 05:31 PM ET (US)
If you are using the xd50 the computer needs to be programed for it. You can have the computer programed to use xd100. With this program it will use 1/2 the oil than it would programed for xd 50. Please check with your dealer to make sure that you engine recieved all available upgrades. I lost a cylinder on a 2006 200 HO with about 20 hours on it. They told me that my engine was before some upgrade having to do with cooling on the top cylinder. I am disappointed in the lack of info that I have gotten. My dealer said that he was instructed not to diagnose the problem but to send it back to BRP intact to see what the problem is. I brought the boat home today with the new engine. I hope SEAHORSE can provide some info on the "upgrades" that my engine did not have. I have never recieved a recall notice but was told that there are recalls. |
| Peter |
posted 05-24-2006 06:40 PM ET (US)
You read it correctly. You can use the better XD-100 oil with the motor programmed to run at either 50:1 or 100:1 ratios. You can use XD-50 oil only with the 50:1 ratio programming (I believe this is the default setting from factory). |
| TheRaven |
posted 05-25-2006 07:00 AM ET (US)
nytugcapt, which oil were you using when you lost a cylinder? Name plate on my engine says it was built in 4/2006. I would think that all upgrades are there. I am in NC where it is Yamaha country. I am taking heat already from my offshore fishing buddies for going with an Evinrude let alone a 2 cycle. (They know nothing about the E-TEC technology.) Hope I haven't made a mistake. |
| andygere |
posted 05-25-2006 04:15 PM ET (US)
Raven, I just mounted a small block E-TEC 200 on my Outrage, but I'm still rigging and have not run it yet. Mine had a tag under the cowl that said it was programed at the factory to run XD-50. If you want to get your money's worth out of that expensive XD-100, you need to have the program changed by your dealer. At $38 per gallon, why do you want to burn twice as much? By the way, I bought my motor for the same reasons you did: Light weight but rated at 200 h.p. Mine replaced a 2.4 liter Mercury 200, and I expect performance to be at least as good. |
| nytugcapt |
posted 05-25-2006 06:58 PM ET (US)
I was using xd50. The dealer suggested that I keep it programmed for xd50 because if you can't find xd50 you can use regular 2 stroke oil. I was told that engine oil had nothing to do with the cylinder failing. My new engine is also programmed for xd50 but as soon as this tank of oil is gone I want it reprogrammed for xd100. It is more expensive but it uses half as much oil. My dealer sells it in bulk so its not as expensive. |
| crabby |
posted 05-25-2006 07:11 PM ET (US)
NYTUG: Whine to the BRP reps about lost time, etc. When my 90etec blew (twice) they gave me a case of XD100 on the house! |
| VI Jamie 22 |
posted 05-25-2006 10:03 PM ET (US)
On choosing what oil to use and what setting. For my clients, it comes down to how much are they going to use. If they are going to use alot, I suggest xd50. If the client is a weekender, why not use xd100. I think that instead of looking at the price of a gallon, the cost should be looked at annually. In my last Evinrude [ficht] I only used xd100. When I buy an Etec, as of now, I will use xd100. I will also set the computer to xd50. The xd100 oil makes less carbon at either setting, so why not have a cleaner, well lubricated engine? |
| BlackMax |
posted 05-31-2006 08:21 PM ET (US)
You guys are saying the reason these E-tecs owned by nytugcapt and crabby blew up was because of use of xd50 instead of xd100 oil? Maybe all Evinrude E-tec owners should use that grade of oil. Evinrude has excellent, but costly, damage control. The approach of quickly getting the whole engine "out of Dodge" is a smart move, not letting the dealer's mechanics rebuild it, who might also do a lousy job and create even more bad press. First of all, it prevents a lot of talk getting around and out from the mechanics themselves, as to what went wrong. Secondly, it prevents customers from seeing a torn down new engine, talking to mechanics, etc, if they wander into the shop as they usually do. This is bad news period, and bad for a future sale to that customer. |
| fourdfish |
posted 05-31-2006 08:32 PM ET (US)
Sounds like Larry is back at again! |
| elaelap |
posted 05-31-2006 08:37 PM ET (US)
Heh heh...did you notice his given location (and of course, his screen name)? |
| andygere |
posted 05-31-2006 09:55 PM ET (US)
Third, it makes the customer whole, which is all the customer really cares about. It is a smart move. |
| Peter |
posted 05-31-2006 10:04 PM ET (US)
Those BlackMax motors were never very good at trolling. ;) |
| Tom W Clark |
posted 05-31-2006 10:53 PM ET (US)
Oh Larry, is it that Evinrude customer relations handling any different than how Brunswick handled any of the numerous OptiMax or Verado motors that went Tango Uniform? |
| jimh |
posted 06-01-2006 09:05 AM ET (US)
If I understand the current dispute under discussion, the issue seems to resolve around this action: Bombardier responds to customer complaints about some E-TEC outboard motors by giving the customer a new motor and having the customer's motor sent back to the factory. It is alleged that such action is a sinister practice on the part of Bombardier and is part of a cover up to hide engine problems from their own dealer network and the public in general. An alternative explanation is equally plausible. Bombardier intends to continue development and refinement of their engine, and they will use the customer's engines in their research. By having an engine returned from the field, they will be able to study the problem. About 16 years ago I was attending a major auto show during the media-only portion of the exhibition. General Motors had recently introduced a new engine, and I had just purchased a vehicle that used that engine. It so happened that I had a conversation with an engineer who had been involved in the development of that engine. He told me that the engine had been in production and field use for a while, and the failure rate was extremely low. The engineers were eager to see an engine which had been in actual use and had failed. He said there was a policy in place in which a dealer could receive a significant cash incentive if they had a customer with a failed engine; the dealer would replace the engine and send the customer's engine back to the factory for analysis. In addition, modern manufacturing techniques provide a great deal of record keeping which can be useful in determining the cause of problems which develop in the field. Again another automotive example: a particular new vehicle was experiencing unusual problems with a failure in the brake system. Many vehicles were affected. The problem was eventually resolved. The cause was found to be a tool used in the assembly process which was over-tightening a fastener. This was only discovered when engineers were able to examine vehicles from the field that had failed. I do not find that Bombardier's practice of having customer engines sent back to the factory for analysis to be representative of any sinister motivation, but rather an example of how a modern manufacturing company which intends to improve their products does business these days. |
| TheRaven |
posted 06-14-2006 02:12 PM ET (US)
Well, I put the small block e-tec 200 in the water for the first time last week and I'll have to say I am impressed. You actually can bearly hear it at idle and very quite when opened up as well. With the old 17" SS prop off the old '92 Evinrude 200, it turned 5250 RPM and 41+ mph as measured by both my GPS and paddle wheel transducer. This is a 20' Grady White Walk around that weighs 2800 lbs dry and not known for speed. Coming up on plane is impressive as well. I have a question. Owner's manual is not all that informative. When plugging the water hose into the flush port and either running or not running the engine, no water comes out the water pump indicator hole. Nor does it if I use ear muffs and run it plugged into a water hose. Id this OK? |
| gvisko |
posted 06-15-2006 09:42 PM ET (US)
Raven You need to remove the p hole plug and insert a adapter. GEORGE VISKOVICH |
| Peter |
posted 06-15-2006 09:53 PM ET (US)
It's called the "Quick Flush" made by TH Marine. See www.thmarine.com/product.cfm?PRID=179 . These should come standard with the E-TECs. The dealers usually carry them. |
| TheRaven |
posted 06-16-2006 10:08 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the input but I don't really understand. On my e-tec, there are 2 holes in the back. Bottom is called a flushing port and has threads that a garden hose screws into. Owner's manual says,"Connect garden hose to flushing port." and it's not necessary to run engine. The top hole is called a "water pump indicator". It is a large hole about an inch in diameter, and water comes out in large volume when under way. I assume it is what you are calling the pee hole. There is no 'pee hole' as I am accostomed to that squirts a hard small stream when the engine is running. So, when I screw on a garden hose to the flushing port, water runs out the bottom of the propeller hub and prop exhaust port but not the water pump indicator (pee hole)hole. Not even if I run the engine. Nor if I put ear muffs on the water intake and run it. Not sure what/where/how this flushing gadget you are explaining comes into play. |
| RAY50LB |
posted 09-13-2006 10:33 PM ET (US)
Just an update here.98 hours on my 2006 E-Tec 200 HO blew the power head. Not really sure exactly what happened yet seems like a spun bearing. It happen at a idle so no real visible damaged occurred .IE rod out the side of the case, metal on the plugs ,oil dripping any where. The dealer told me a whole bunch of techy info that the computer was saying but I really don’t pay much attention to that. All I know is that I properly used and maintained the engine, Computer told them that too.Infact he felt I baby the motor. Over all I was happy fuel and oil economy was great,the motor was quite,smooth and powerful. Although the motor did brake up at times and was beginning to growl like my old Fitch. BRP have been great with the warranty and have sent out a new power head almost immediately after the entire computer post where made by my dealer. Blew it on 9/8 lets see how long it takes me to get back in the water. What really sucks is this is the beginning of the striper run OH well stuff happens. So far my dealer and BRP have been good about trying there best to get me up and running as fast as possible. Sure glad I have a 7 year warrantee. RB |
| crabby |
posted 09-14-2006 08:33 AM ET (US)
Back in 2004 when my 90 etec blew twice, both times they were pretty prompt on the replacements. Unfortunately the first replacement was damaged in shipment so it took a while to get the factory to send another one, and the second time around it was about a one week turn around. This was in late Sept and late October, I feel for you about the start of fishing season here! Although I paid a premium for my motor and let the dealer do the full installation, I have a feeling this helped in getting great service when I needed it most. By the way, who is your dealer? I used Outboard Marine Service in Freeport (Long Island, NY). ---Paul |
| RAY50LB |
posted 09-14-2006 09:30 AM ET (US)
Paul Never relized you are so close.I use Ralph at Lindenhurst Outboard.He is a bit sloppy but always has provided me with first class service.I have been going there for about 15 years now.I bought 3 motors from him in that time and he always keeps me running.When he found these E-Teck demos he let me know right away and got me in on the deal.As you can see he was more than fair with the price and took in my old Fitch as trade in which now he is stuck with.Great guy always mention my name if you go there. RB |
| BlackMax |
posted 09-14-2006 12:32 PM ET (US)
Pssst...... (whispering now) why..are..all..these..new..E-Tecs..blowing..up? Wouldn't the inquiring minds of present owners and future buyers want to know before they get sent back to factory? Seahorse (the recall and upgrade insider), fourfish, Peter, Jamie??? Disclaimer - is what's good for Mercury and Yamaha good for Evinrude? If any of you have had a 4-stroke, any brand, blow up in less than 300 hours, please report in. |
| The Judge |
posted 09-14-2006 12:53 PM ET (US)
Made in Canada? As far as them blowing up, I don't see ANY for sale at the rebuild shops down here...they are however stocked with Optimax's and a few HPDI's. I have only seen 1 rebuilt 4 stroke for sale in the last few years(225 2001 Yammie). |
| crabby |
posted 09-14-2006 04:12 PM ET (US)
Ray: Ralph's a good guy, they're right around the corner from me, but I was a little tired of them yanking my chain looking for carbs for my old 70hp (lost six weeks that summer and was really getting frustrated) when I made up my mind to go etec. As the guys in Freeport had several in stock and Ralph had none, I went with Outboard Marine Service (I've bought at least four or five motors from them over the years).
As to my motor blowing up, this happened to me two years ago and was well covered here (both times). A bad injector caused one cylinder to run lean and at the point where the emm cuts back on the heavy break-in oiling period (approx ten hours of use) it smoked that cylinder. The first powerhead replacement would have been a three day affair except UPS damaged the replacement and we had to wait for another one. As the initial replacement was a short block, the bad injector went back on and the same thing happened a second time at about the ten hour mark. Once again, I got very good turn around time on the repair (which was a full dress powerhead) and a free case of XD100 oil for my misery. Since then I have had a TPS (throttle position sensor) fail, fortunately at dockside, which was a quick repair I did myself (I still need to pick up a spare cause I know if it died once it might do it at some very inopportune time again). The only other problem I have had was operator error when I tried to fast idle the motor warming it up and the emm shut me down thinking there was a runaway condition (needed the dealer to send someone out to reset it). I'm only guessing but I would think I have at least 300 hours on the motor and likely closer to 400 or more. All of my issues have been well documented on this forum; there have been one or two other regulars here who have mentioned some problems, but personally it does not look like there is any sort of coverup going on. I give 5 stars to BRP for their customer service! |
| gvisko |
posted 09-14-2006 07:27 PM ET (US)
Ray sorry to here about your motor. I keep my 22'outrage with a 225 e-tec out in East Moriches And if you want top go for stripers on the weekends drop me a line. George V |
| VI Jamie 22 |
posted 09-14-2006 09:57 PM ET (US)
Blackmax, You asked about 4 stokes destructing less than 300 hours. Last year we had 4 Honda 225s with about 100 hours fail. To be fair we have had 3 Etecs also fail early. They were all early production engines. |
| RAY50LB |
posted 09-14-2006 10:10 PM ET (US)
I need to say this. Not only on this site but others there is always this competitive edge my wee wee is bigger than yours. I have bin silently reading the post here at continues wave for about 2 years now. I was definitely looking for direction on the next motor I was about to buy. There seems to be this whole battle on 2 stroke over 4 stroke Mercury, Yamaha, BRP and others. Although there is from my understanding after reading all these post no real stand out winner. So I decided to go with my best deal. And what made most sense to me and my boat and how I use it. I have already posted why I made my choice so I need not repeat it. So do I care why my motor broke you have asked? NO I really don’t give a hoot. All I care about is that I am not fishing this weekend. As for the technical reason why it broke in the first place, I probably wouldn’t understand anyway. And if you feel that all these certain models are breaking down than surly you should not get one for your boat. And that is why I posted the update in the first place so that other readers may make there decisions according. Lastly let me say many people ask how do I like that E-Tec and my answer has been the same: ask me in 3 years. I don’t care how long the warrantee is if I keep loosing time on the water I am not a happy camper opps boater.
I know this is the wrong place to ask but what about a LONG ISLAND Rendezvous has there ever been one ? RB |
| RAY50LB |
posted 09-18-2006 10:48 PM ET (US)
Well the new power head arrived today 9/18/06.Full dresses they replace everything just need to bolt up the lower unit. My mechanic told me to drop it off tomorrow 9/19 and he will have me running by noon. I am real happy about the turn around time and even happier at the fact that I received a FULLY dressed power head. This way all the components are system matched besides being new. I am curious to how this new motor will sound and run. I do expect Ralph will be looking for the reason the power head failed in the first place. I will keep you posted. RB |
| RAY50LB |
posted 09-19-2006 10:00 PM ET (US)
Ok I am on the water again. First you should know BRP replaced the entire power head right down to the spark plugs. The computer was reprogrammed with my info and probably knows that I have 98 hours on the first motor so that it is keeping count I guess for warrantee purposes. Ralph feels the failure occurred at the lower seal it was dripping oil and He feels it allowed water up into the crank. He told me (the lower seal) is the same part # from the Fitch motors and they have bin using that seal for about 5 or 6 years. He also told me that he hasn’t seen many failures at this part. The old motor was put back in the crate the new motor came in and he was given a return label with contact number for the trucker to pick up. BRP wants the motor back within 30 days. The test run resulted in a low oil warning buzzer and light and I do remember reading some ware on this site that by winterizing the motor solves that problem. Is that right? Ok so that’s my report I will be fishing on Friday so I will see how it goes from here. RB |
| Tom W Clark |
posted 09-19-2006 10:07 PM ET (US)
Wow! Now that is what I call service. I'm pleased to here that BRP didn't just blame your motor troubles on lightning and then deny your warranty claim. |
| VI Jamie 22 |
posted 09-19-2006 10:35 PM ET (US)
Good luck, and have some patience with the oil buzzer, it may take some effort to eliminate it, but once it is gone, it is usually permanently gone. |
| Peter |
posted 09-20-2006 09:24 AM ET (US)
LOW OIL or NO OIL (assumes System Check gauges)? The LOW OIL alarm is caused by the float sensor in the tank. The NO OIL alarm is caused by the motor not getting oil pulses. If NO OIL, follow Seahorse's recommendation which is 1)with the oil bulb held vertically squeeze it firmly until the oil bulb goes almost flat to get any trapped air out of the bulb, and 2) follow the WINTERIZING procedure as described in the owner's manual to purge any remaining air out of the lines. |
| RAY50LB |
posted 09-20-2006 08:57 PM ET (US)
I am not sure which one it is low or no oil. I will check with my mechanic and go from there. Thanks for all the info. RB |
| RAY50LB |
posted 09-26-2006 08:44 PM ET (US)
Here is my latest update. Well Fridays test run led to a software problem. It was both low and no oil warnings. The no oil warning threw the motor into slow mode. I needed to return to my mechanic and get a computer update which solved the problem. The new motor was defiantly quieter, smoother, and seemed faster. There were no more growls. I think that is a spark plug issue. I almost feel the e-Tec 200HO is too much motor for my 22 Outrage. I can feel as though my boat wants to flip when I am at full speed. By the way I meet Crabby at Ralphs.He was definitely Crabby at that point. Did you get running again Crabby? I will be fishing tomorrow Wednesday lets see how my motor runs than. RB |
| fourdfish |
posted 09-26-2006 09:19 PM ET (US)
Ray50lb-- I am glad to see you got prompt service and are back on the water. Hope you catch some big ones! I always have to make sure my passengers are seated because of the low end torque of my ETEC. Now going on 2 yrs of great service. Crabby I would not waste time explaining to Larry(Blackmax). He is back at it again with another screen name. Makeing up stuff and posting! No crediablity there! You have to wonder why he has to use another screen name? |
| RAY50LB |
posted 09-27-2006 09:24 PM ET (US)
FYI there where bunker schools off Gilgo today with fish under them.Nothing great 5 fish to 22lbs.Motor ran well.See ya out there RB |
| crabby |
posted 09-28-2006 10:53 AM ET (US)
Ray, sent you mail. Quite the coincidence meeting you last week! fourd: I'm not worried about trolls. Folks who have read my posts know that although I have had some issues with my motor the service I have received has been overall very good (from both the dealer and manufacturer's viewpoint) and when the motor runs I am pleased with it. Of course the motor could be better, but so could everything in life. OTOH, I can really appreciate Buckda's setup with twins... |
| BlackMax |
posted 09-28-2006 11:18 AM ET (US)
You Evinrude E-Tec test customers are amazing. The more the E-tecs break down, need to be towed and dragged back to the dealers for replacement powerheads, software updates, throttle linkage problems, etc, including the poorest of the DFI's in fuel mileage, THE MORE YOU PRAISE THE COMPANY FOR GREAT SERVICE. You guys are a Lemon Law lawyer's dream. My idea of great service from an outboard company is not ever having to take a new low hour engine back for any repairs. Great service from a Company is an engine that runs and runs and needs nothing but gas and oil. Evinrude people will consider this a troll, other brand people will consider this a reasonable observation. |
| Tom W Clark |
posted 09-28-2006 11:27 AM ET (US)
No Larry, we consider it Larry just being Larry. Somethings never change. Everything you said about the Evinrudes could be said of the Mercurys...except the great customer service. |
| andygere |
posted 09-28-2006 11:33 AM ET (US)
Let's see, RAY50LB has a problem with his new E-TEC (mounted on his old Whaler), and Evinrude promptly replaces the powerhead and makes him whole. He's out fishing this week. blavid has a smaller problem with his new Verado (mounted on his new Whaler) and Mercury speculates that it was caused by lightning and tells him he's out of luck. What kind of customer service would you want? Nice try Larry. |
| The Judge |
posted 09-28-2006 11:51 AM ET (US)
I don't have problems....I own a Suzuki, the other black engine ;) |
| Perry |
posted 09-28-2006 12:54 PM ET (US)
Is this drive to make 2 srokes more fuel efficient causing the E-TEC's to have some problems? Is BRP playing with fire by making them run so lean for the sake of improved fuel economy and emissions? I'm not a troll and my intent is not to bash BRP but I am truely curious why a new motor needs to be sent to a dealer for constant software upgrades and the reports of powerehead failures on new motors. |
| The Judge |
posted 09-28-2006 01:14 PM ET (US)
It has plagued Optimax, HPDI, & Ficht as well. "Theoretically" The E-Tec should be the best due to the pistons they use that can actually run without oil for 3-5 hours. The problems they have encounted have not really been lean-run related, more so just working the bugs out of it and/or quality control perhaps. I too question the long range durability of running such little oil in a 2 stroke, hence why I am on the 4 stroke wagon but I think it will work due to advances in technology. Up until the 60's they ran 24:1. Then went to 50:1. In the 80's 100:1 and even 150:1 with VRO. Today they are running about 300:1. Don't know how much leaner is possible. This would NEVER be possible without DFI technology which is proven in the diesel engines and kinda in outboards. I also think people run outboards too hard, I bet at 4000rpm they will run forever but running WOT they have problems. If E-Tecs et all do survive, it will change not only outboard technology but all internal combustion engines in the future. We will have lawn mowers that use a drop of oil per mowing and weigh half, etc. |
| RAY50LB |
posted 09-28-2006 03:41 PM ET (US)
Well my decision for E-Tec where based on a few factors. First recommended by my friend and mechanic, cost remembers I paid $11,000.00 and gave up my Fitch as trade. $11,000.00 included everything (install gauges binnacle mount tax prop) agreed a lot of that equipment was swapped from my other motor but never the less it was money not spent. Had I changed manufactures I surly would have picked up more expenses. Next weight I am sensitive to the amount of weight at the transom. Besides the motor there is a additional 30 gallon bait well plus the below deck well which is always filled of water. And than you have fat old me I like standing at the stern when I fish. Torque and acceleration was another consideration due to the way I use my boat of which I have already posted And not to mention a 7 year warrantee. So who knows if I might the right decision now as I said ask me in 3 years. As far as some of you guys trying to figure out who’s wee wee is the biggest I say don’t stick it out too far you might cut it off. RB |
| fourdfish |
posted 09-28-2006 04:28 PM ET (US)
Blackmax-I mean Larry never seems to mention the problems Merc is having with the Verado. Always a one sided post! Just check over at the Hull Truth and other forums and you will see all kinds of engines with problems including Merc and several recalls for the Verado. Outboards are built by man and are not perfect. A search will show many manufactures recalls of thier cars. He always disrespects the opinions of others. I'm just glad I don't drive an old beater Cadillac. |
| fourdfish |
posted 09-28-2006 04:34 PM ET (US)
By the way the Coast Guard has just posted a recall for DF200, 225 & 250 Suzuki engines and those same badged engines under the Johnson name. Sorry Judge! |
| Buckda |
posted 09-28-2006 05:00 PM ET (US)
The firmware/software updates are mostly as the engineers keep tweaking the technology based on ongoing field reports from the dealer network. I own two E-TEC motors and have more than 120 hours on each, and have not had any problems. The software updates, at least for now, are free. Your dealer is incentivized by the factory to keep the latest software on their customer motors. You should receive a printout every time your motor is serviced. It is called an "engine history report" and details details of your engine, including max recorded temperatures, EMM and Engine hours, serial numers for your injectors, fault codes and a profile for how you use your motor (RPM ranges, etc). This printout has three "version" numbers printed on the second line that is under the dealer and owner information. The versions are for the Program Version, Program Revision and Map Version. The last two numbers will change periodically. You can call your dealer to ask what the latest version is, and check it against your printout. If the dealer has a newer version, you can stop by at your leisure and it should be updated for free - your dealer will be reimbursed by the factory. ..and no Larry, I don't see that as a problem at all - just like your computer can be set to automatically download updates from a server, BRP has brought this concept to outboards - they can continually improve the product, and at the same time encourage greater dealer/customer interactions through increased opportunities for face to face updates. That's pretty gutsy as a company, and shows a great deal of confidence in their dealer network to retain customers and take care of much of the customer satisfaction end of things. I think it's a model that should be studied for possible future integration into other industries. In fact, the idea has been around for a little while at least. Some Whirlpool refrigerators can self inventory to update a grocery list so you can print one off and head to the grocery store. That kind of integrated service will soon start to stratify companies and customer satisfaction...it will be interesting to see how these manufacturers in the outboard world will compete against each other. Nice to see you're still around though. We've not been able to get together this summer, I hope we have the opportunity this fall. Dave |
| andygere |
posted 09-28-2006 05:24 PM ET (US)
Perry, Since the fuel is injected into the cylinders directly, without first mixing with oil, the fuel efficiency issue is really separated from lubrication. That said, since the oil is going directly to the bearing surfaces without first being dilluted with a solvent (gasoline) it seems reasonable that a lot less oil will be needed. Remember, all that blue smoke and multicolored slicks left behind the old conventional 2-strokes were largely excess oil burning and the rest being discharged (mixed with gasoline) through the exhaust. One very plausible cause for powerhead failures on early DFI motors (Opti, Fict, HPDI) is that all that fuel and oil leaving the motor in an unburned state on the old 2-strokes had a cooling effect, which was not accounted for properly when that effect was removed via DFI technology. I have been told this by reputable techs from both Evinrude and Mercury. I think it's safe to say that all the manufacturers quickly identified this and adjusted cooling regimens accordingly. Regarding the number of powerhead or other types failures, what we have reported on this forum is largely anecdotal. I've seen plenty of similar reports on big V6 4-strokes, along with "making oil" problems and so on posted on other forums. Bottom line, I have not seen any statistics on number and type of failures by motor type or manufacturer, nor do I think I ever will. At the end of the day, I'd rather take my new outboard in for a quick software update (and get a $33 gallon of oil for my trouble) than find out a few years from now that the manufacturer ignored an opportunity to improve the product and make it run better or last longer. That, and 7 years of warranty, help me sleep pretty well at night. |
| crabby |
posted 09-29-2006 01:52 AM ET (US)
BlackM: You are right in some respects, the e-tecs are early revs and some of us have become defacto testers. I hope they keep working with me, am glad I have a long warrantee that I hope keeps working for me if needed, and hope they fix my current problem real soon (they are usually pretty good even on road calls). Can't speak for anyone else. I'm pretty certain there were no lightning strikes this time... peaceout, paul |
| crabby |
posted 09-29-2006 01:57 AM ET (US)
Buckda: I would only luv it if the software to deal with the motor along with a cable to connect a computer were included up front. Especially when things are in beta. Still a good motor when it runs... paul |
| fourdfish |
posted 09-29-2006 10:49 AM ET (US)
Crabby-- The dealers really don't want customers to have the software & cable since they would lose money. I was lucky to talk my dealer into getting it for me. That being said, I know you can get the software and cable. Seahorse has stated that it is available from sources on the internet. Actually, I don't blame the dealers as they have to make a living. The diagnostic software and cables for cars is much the same way. |
| The Judge |
posted 09-29-2006 12:19 PM ET (US)
That is an old recall and was for a fuel pressure sender or something. Does not matter though, I have a DF115. |
| fourdfish |
posted 09-29-2006 04:18 PM ET (US)
Judge--It is a malfunctioning electronic control module and It was just making my point, that no engine is immune to problems. |
| The Judge |
posted 10-02-2006 11:57 AM ET (US)
I know...my post about the Suzuki was just a joke. |
| TheRaven |
posted 12-09-2006 04:37 PM ET (US)
Just a little update on my 200 hp smallblock Etec. Three friends and I took a trip up the intracoastal waterway from mid North Carolina to the Virginia border and back. We went 425 GPS miles. Etec performed flawlessly. Most of route in the 4000 RPM range. Top MPG was 3.4. I do think it should crank up a little more. I have an old SS 17" prop from the original 1992 200 hp Evinrude installed. Top RPM is 5200 with speed of 42 mph as measured by both a paddle wheel and GPS. Boat is 20' GW walk around. Does anyone have any experience with prop selection for their Etec? |
| fourdfish |
posted 12-09-2006 08:15 PM ET (US)
Raven -That rpm seems very low. I think the listed rpm for that engine should be around 5800rpms I would try the 19 first. I went from a 17 to a 19 and got better results with my reg 200hp ETEC. |
| TheRaven |
posted 12-10-2006 03:11 PM ET (US)
Wouldn't an 19" just pull RPM down further? |
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