Forum: WHALER
  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: Whaler Performance
  MONTAUK 170: New Factory Performance Report with Veradito 90-HP

Post New Topic  Post Reply
search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   MONTAUK 170: New Factory Performance Report with Veradito 90-HP
imko posted 08-01-2006 07:15 AM ET (US)   Profile for imko   Send Email to imko  
I have a Montauk 170 with 2003 Mercury 90-HP four-stroke. I use the same prop as shown in the [newly listed] performance report --Laser II 13.25 x 20
Maximum [engine speed] with one person = 5,800-RPM; boat speed 44.1-MPH

The new Mercury [Veradito] four-stroke hit 6,100-RPM (red line 6,000) and the top speed is 46.6-MPH. This is with two persons. That's a strong engine!

mcswimboy posted 08-02-2006 04:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for mcswimboy  Send Email to mcswimboy     
[I am interested in] a new Montauk with the Mercury 90 four-stroke. Is this the engine you are referring to? Is it different from your 2003?
Teak Oil posted 08-02-2006 05:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for Teak Oil  Send Email to Teak Oil     
I think that is [inaccurate]. No one here has reported getting near 46-MPH with a 170 and a 90 four-stroke. Maybe with a 115. That boat must have been bare bones stripped down. A 60-HP motor goes 31.1 but the 90 adds 15.5-MPH?

40-42 would be the max with a real life load.

Why they dont offer a 115 with this boat is beyond me, but I bet it costs them quite a few boats sold every year

nydealer posted 08-02-2006 06:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for nydealer  Send Email to nydealer     
The change is due to the new engine offered. Mercury no longer uses the Yamaha Based 90. It is now a Verado Based engine. It uses the same block as the 135/150/150 without the supercharger. This engine has a higher Max RPM than the previous engine.
Peter posted 08-02-2006 07:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
WOT range specifications for the new Merc 90 4-stroke are the same as the old Yamamerc 90 4-stroke -- 5000 to 6000 RPM. Anyone notice that the test date was December 7, 2005 with air temperature of only 68 degrees F with a 66 degree F water temperature?
bigjohn1 posted 08-02-2006 08:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for bigjohn1  Send Email to bigjohn1     
Peter brings up a valid point and I think most manufacturers (if they are using their collective heads) will test their product on a cool dry day since those conditions produce the most power and best performance. Many of the anectotal speed tests reported here by members are conducted at varying times of the year so heat and humidity will swing as speed results will swing. I am not convinced the speed report cited above is [inaccurate] based on this.
nydealer posted 08-02-2006 08:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for nydealer  Send Email to nydealer     
Peter, You're right, I did not look at the 90 RPM range. I just ran the new 115 today and that has a 5800-6400 range. Just assumed the 90 was the same.
imko posted 08-03-2006 03:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for imko  Send Email to imko     
You're right Peter. But this performance report is with two on board. My data is with one person. (44,1 mph / 5800 rpm) The LASER II prop is a very good prop.
Peter posted 08-03-2006 03:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
They say nothing about wind or current or that the numbers come from an average of two runs in opposite directions. Maybe they had a nice wind and current behind them. What they do say is:

quote:
The performance data shown should be considered valid only for the specific boat whose serial number is shown and on the date this test was performed. Many factors may affect the actual performance of this boat or of similar boats. Such factors include, but not limited to, installation of certain options such as towers and hard tops, vessel loading and trim, weather and sea conditions, wind and atmospheric conditions, engines condition, propeller condition, and hull bottom condition. Boston Whaler makes no guarantee whatsoever that this performance will be repeated on this boat at a later date or at any time on a similarly equipped boat.

So basically they are telling us is that it is what it is.

I simply can't draw any conclusions that the home grown Mercury 90 4-stroke (what was it called, the Verdito?) is any stronger or weaker than Mercaha 90 from a single datapoint. Given that the displacement is the same as the Mercaha, I wouldn't expect it to be any stronger or weaker.

BOB KEMMLER JR posted 08-03-2006 06:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for BOB KEMMLER JR    
The new all Merc 90 4 stroke sounds like a powerhouse!
Marsh posted 08-03-2006 10:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for Marsh  Send Email to Marsh     
I've got an '05 Merc 115 4 stroke EFI on my '04 Montauk 170, and can barely hit 42 mph, if I'm rigged for my normal fishing trip: bimini, troller, 3 batts, cooler, ice, bait, and my fishing dog, Jake. I doubt my boat would reach 40 if still equipped with the original 90 hp 4 stroke.

Not sure what impact our dirty water around here has on speed: there are placed where the water surface is so gummed up, a pebble thrown overboard would stick, and not sink. Pretty gross, actually.

CW

jimh posted 08-03-2006 10:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
This new Mercury four-stroke 90-HP "Veradito" motor may be just the motor that Mercury needs in order to break into the re-power market with classic Boston Whaler owners.

The Veradito may have more oomph than the old Yamaha/Mercury motor. Mercury has put a lot of engineering into it. For example, it has a sophisticated fuel "module" which completely integrates the whole fuel induction system into an assembly. The mid-section and gear case are the same, I believe, as the older motor, so any improvement has to come from the power head.

I wrote extensively some time ago about how the Veradito motors would implement their fuel induction. I don't think you can find information of this detail anywhere else on the net:

Originally authored by me in:
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/012137.html

--

Mercury Marine will soon deliver their Veradito-class four-stroke motors. Details of these engines have been hard to come by. The most recent tidbit of information to leak out is the use of an integrated air-fuel module or IAFM.
The Integrated Air Fuel Module (IAFM) is a common component in a modern four-stroke engine. An IAFM can combine a number of components into a single assembly, such as:

--air filter
--throttle body
--control system for variable air intake
--air flow sensor
--fuel injectors
--intake manifold
--integrated gaskets and seal
--captured fasteners

The usual goal of an integrated design like this is to:

--reduce weight
--reduce intake noise
--improve performance

In their new Veradito-class 75-, 90-, and 115-HP four-stroke engines, Mercury will be using an IAFM for precisely these reasons. In some promotion literature, they mention use of an "Integrated Air-Fuel Module (IAFM), including a tuned-length manifold system...to optimize engine performance and sound quality."

Engine sound quality is the new frontier of outboard engine marketing, in case you hadn't noticed. A great deal of consumer attention is being paid to the sound levels produced by new outboard motors.

The Mercury IAFM will also include an air filter.

Development and use of integrated air fuel modules is very common in modern vehicle engines, and there are several vendors who specialize in development of components like this. SiemonsVDO and Denso are two such suppliers of integrated air fuel modules. The Dodge Magnum 5.7-liter Hemi V8 engine uses an IAFM from SiemonsVDO, for example.

--

Since writing that three months ago, I am still waiting for someone to send me a picture of the power head of one of these Veraditos. Up here in Michigan I probably won't get an opportunity to see one of these in person until a winter boat show. If anyone has seen these Veraditos in person, take the cowling off and get some pictures.

ratherwhalering posted 08-04-2006 02:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for ratherwhalering  Send Email to ratherwhalering     
Those are some very impressive numbers. What is most impressive is that the Veradito can spin a 20-inch prop at such a high RPM.
Peter posted 08-04-2006 04:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Much easier if you have 2.33:1 gears.
BOB KEMMLER JR posted 08-04-2006 04:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for BOB KEMMLER JR    
The power/torque is still there to do it.Based on those numbers i'd say empty it would swing a 21-22p easy.Sounds like Merc has another 100 at the prop(or more) 90 hp motor.
andygere posted 08-04-2006 04:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
I searched all over Mercury's website, but could not find the Veradito model 90 h.p. 4-stroke outboard. The closest thing I could find that matched the description in this article was the Mercury 90 h.p. EFI FourStroke model. Is this Veradito model currently available to the public? Will my local dealer know what I'm talking about if I call him and ask for a Veradito? Since our fine moderator frowns upon made up abbreviations and monikers (e.g. Johnyrude, Mercaha, Yam, Yammy, Zuke, Zukey, etc.) I'm certain that I'm simply out of the loop on Mercury Marine's latest product offerings. These sound like nice engines, but perhaps they are not yet available in my region, or are simply too new to appear on the manufacturer's website.
jimh posted 08-04-2006 07:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Mercury calls the new motor a "FourStroke" to differentiate it from the previous "Four-Stoke" model. That is a rather hard to distinguish distinguishing difference, if you ask me. I dubbed them "Veraditos" on February 5, 2006, and Bass and Walleye Magazine seems to have picked up the name, calling them that in their August issue. We'll have to wait, I guess, for Mercury to come to its senses and adopt the name, too.

:-)

andygere posted 08-04-2006 09:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
I guess 2006 FourStroke is not as cute as Veradito, but it is pretty easy to distinguish from 2005 Four-Stroke. I wonder if they will be available on the new Boston Whaler Taukito*.


*Taukito is my made-up name for the new 150 Montauk. If Bass and Walleye magazine picks it up, we can adopt it as official in these pages. :-)

jimh posted 08-04-2006 10:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
150 MONTAUK is a decent name and probably does not need any help. "FourStroke' is awful; it deserves some assistance. Brunswick ought to give some serious consideration to Veradito.
BOB KEMMLER JR posted 08-04-2006 10:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for BOB KEMMLER JR    
"Taukito" would be a heck of a good name for a 150 or 170 Montauk with the latest influx of latinos into the US.Someone better claim that one fast i think lol
bigjohn1 posted 08-04-2006 11:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for bigjohn1  Send Email to bigjohn1     
The word "Veradito" has no official standing with the factory.
outragesteve posted 08-05-2006 04:51 AM ET (US)     Profile for outragesteve  Send Email to outragesteve     
Just when I thought my repower project on my '89 22' Outrage was settled with twin Yamaha 115's, I now have another option. The new Merc 115 fourstroke is available (or is it?) Per the specs on the Merc website, it looks like a Verado 4 cylinder without the blower. The weight (399) is close to the Yamaha and the MercAha 115 @ 386. What I like about the new engine is it is SmartCraft capable. I was going Yamaha because the 2005 Merc 115 was an "analog" engine, i.e. no digital gauges, fuel management systems, etc. If only my dealer knew about the engine, I could open my checkbook!
mcswimboy posted 08-05-2006 07:49 AM ET (US)     Profile for mcswimboy  Send Email to mcswimboy     
new at this.....what does "Smartcraft" imply?

[Please don't introduce new discussions into a topic. Start a separate topic to change the topic.--jimh]

VI Jamie 22 posted 08-05-2006 10:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for VI Jamie 22  Send Email to VI Jamie 22     
Smartcraft is Mercury's name for their digital gauges. More info in less space.
Teak Oil posted 08-05-2006 11:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for Teak Oil  Send Email to Teak Oil     
One report from the parent company of Mercury is hardly enough to claim these engines as powerhouses. Yjey may be the fastest four stroke available, but I will reserve judgement until they are actually on transoms and people are coming here giving first hand reports.

The modules Jim is referring to sound like they are designed to make manufacturing the engines cheaper and faster, not to improve performance. Knowing Mercury though, I am sure they have done a little something to make these engines among the fastest in their respective classes.

I find it hard to believe the 90 will be as fast as the Mercaha 115 though.


Lake Winni posted 08-07-2006 04:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for Lake Winni  Send Email to Lake Winni     
Ok, so I have an '06 170 but with the Merc / Yamaha 90 4-stroke EFI on it. Personally, I think the new "Veradito" looks ugly as sin! I agree it sounds like a strong motor and all, but did the design folks pen this after a heavy night of drinking!? It looks like the motor was left out in the hot sun and the cowl "melted" and stretched downward, for instance what is with the bubble (hump) on the top? I have seen this motor in person on a 190 Montauk and it is goofier looking in person, am I the only one that feels Merc might have "missed the aesthetic ball" here!?
Lake Winni posted 08-07-2006 04:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for Lake Winni  Send Email to Lake Winni     
BTW - here is a link to it ;o)

http://www.mercurymarine.com/90_efi

BOB KEMMLER JR posted 08-07-2006 04:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for BOB KEMMLER JR    
Looks like Darth Vaders helmet lol I agree on the looks,but they all seemed to have gone to that sweepy bloated look.Maybe this is the later vegas Elvis years of outboard styling?
Teak Oil posted 08-07-2006 09:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for Teak Oil  Send Email to Teak Oil     
Holy Crap that is the first time I have seen one of those things.

I dont care how fast it is I couldnt hang that ugly bastard on the back of my Montauk.

jimh posted 08-08-2006 12:53 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
As I previously mentioned, the cowling styling reminds me of a hair dryer at a lady's hair salon in the 1950's. When I was a little boy my mother would drag me along when she went to get her hair "done," and all the ladies would be sitting in a row of machines that looked like those cowlings.

Re Andy's comment about my "made-up" name, Veraditos, and his suggestion:

"Taukito is my made-up name for the new 150 Montauk"

Andy--my name follows the Spanish morphology for forming diminutives, as I explained when I originally bestowed it on these new motors. If you want to form a new diminutive of a MONTAUK, you should consider its native American roots. In many native American languages the diminutive is forming by adding a syllable "sing" to the end of the work. For example, the big village on Manitoulin Island is named Wikwemikong. There is a smaller village close to it, and it is called Wikwemikongsing (little Wikwemikong).

Following this morphology, a diminutive of a Montauk would be a Montauksing. I would not have a problem accepting this as a name, as it reflects the native American origin of the original name.

Lake Winni posted 08-08-2006 09:58 AM ET (US)     Profile for Lake Winni  Send Email to Lake Winni     
Phew - thank god I'm not alone on that school of thought. Hehe - the Darth Vaders helmet is about right on, if I owned that motor I'd have it painted up to look as such, bet that would get a few laughs!? I was initially disappointed that I missed the boat (I know, BAD pun... ;o) and bought when I did, (Apr. '06) getting the Merc/Yammie 90 vs. the new Merc / Veradito motor, that was before I saw it! But now... I'll give up whatever it might be that I'm giving up with the new Merc to have a better looking motor. I think I lucked out - maybe, getting the EFI version of the 90 4S before it went ugly, (as the '05 was still carbed, correct?).

In any event, for those interested - I moved my motor up one hole so now it sits in the middle of the 5, and... BIG difference, all-around. Using the same prop it came with,(18" Vengeance) it planes with less bow rise, seems to be a bit more "unglued" from the water and it is faster on the top end by about 2 mph. (GPS).

imko posted 09-04-2006 03:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for imko  Send Email to imko     
Some pictures of the powerhead (new Veradito 115)


Regards,

Imko

Barney posted 09-04-2006 05:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barney  Send Email to Barney     
Thanks imko, the cam(s) do not appear to be belt driven. That set up would be nice with no main belt. The alternator is belt driven. My Tacoma's 2.4L 4 cylinder has no belt or chain for the cam shafts. Nothing to change at 90,000 miles, or 250,000 miles.

Jim

imko posted 09-05-2006 11:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for imko  Send Email to imko     
Boston Whaler dealer EW Driessen in Holland told me that
next year the Montauk 170 wil have a 100 HP!!
See also the Mercury site:
http://www.marinepower.com/news/single/5263D18047D4426FC125711C003086B3

Regards,

Imko

Post New Topic  Post Reply
Hop to:


Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.