CONQUEST 23: Vensura Four-blade Propeller, Twin Optimax-135HP

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Author Topic:   CONQUEST 23: Vensura Four-blade Propeller, Twin Optimax-135HP

ivansfo posted 08-08-2006 05:49 PM ET (US)
Since I got my 23 Conquest 4 years ago, hole shot and mid-range holding has always bugged me about this boat. During a holeshot, my twin 135 engines must be trimmed all the way in to prevent the props from cavitating. Planing starts at about 19mph and I can get it down to maybe 17 or 18mph with trim tabs both down. But it is difficult to maintain plane at any speeds under 20mph. In the typical ocean waters off San Francisco, most conmfortable cruise is about 15mph and it often pounds when cruising at speeds over 20mph. So my boat either plows (before plane) or goes too fast. Seems there isn't much in between. I rode on a few other boats and found midrange could be much better. Now I want to try and do something about this.
I have two ideas. One is to lower the engines down one more hole to its lowest possible position. I think this would give the current props more water to grab. But lowering the engines is no easy task. I will need to involve dealer labor to move the engines for such a test.
The other idea which I like better is going to a 4 blade prop such as the Vensura or Revolution. To keep the upgrade costs to a minimal, I want to buy used or online. So that rules out the practice of trying loaner props from the dealer. I would have to take a plunge on a set of props and hope it actually does improve perforance.
Because the Vensura is more readily avaiable new and used, I'm hoping a pair of Vensura 17p would greatly improve hole shot and mid-range cruising. I'm not so concerned about top end. I would gladly trade losing 2-3mph for a nice mid-range cruise.
Any thoughts if this is the right approach?

MY CURRENT SETUP:
-23 Conqeust
-Twin 135 Optimax w/ gear Ratio 2:1
-Pair of Mercury Mirage Plus SS 14.25" x 17P (LH and RH)
-WOT about 5900 RPM at 44mph
-Planes at about 3000 RPM at 19mph
-Engines mounted 2nd hole from the top. One more mounting hole to lower them.
Backlash posted 08-08-2006 06:36 PM ET (US)
I'm a huge fan of the Offshore/VenSura 4-blade props. Made a huge difference in my 21' Walkaround as far as hole shot, time to plane, acceleration, etc. Like my 21, your 23' Conquest probably digs a big hole too when getting on plane.
FYI, if you decide to go with the Offshore/VenSuras I would leave the engines where they are until you try them. I'm also running the medium hole vent plugs which lets the prop spool up before it hooks up.
This sounds like the right approach to me!
Steve
Tom W Clark posted 08-09-2006 10:40 AM ET (US)
I suggest you try a pair of 17" Mercury Revolution 4 for starters. These props will grip better than the small bladed Offshore/Vensuras, though those are excellent props as well.
I agree with Steve, leave the motor where it is until you have settled on the ideal prop. In the end you may not have to move the motors at all.
Another prop to try is the Mercury High Five, though I am unsure if they are manufactured in a 17" counter rotation.
ivansfo posted 08-10-2006 07:30 PM ET (US)
I wouldn't mind trying a set of Merc Revolutions but they sure are pricey, especially when I have to get a pair!
Anyone know if the Vensura and Offshore model props are 100% identical? In my search for used props, it might be easier to find them individually. I'm wondering if it would be wise to run one Vensura and one Offshore at the same time.
One more idea I thought of recently. I'm going to ask my local dealer if I can pay and rent some of their demo props. I would be much more comfortable buying a new set of props if I was certain performance will improve.
Thanks,
Ivan
Backlash posted 08-12-2006 09:04 AM ET (US)
Ivan,
It is my understanding that the Offshore/VenSura props are one and the same. You might want to call Mercury to verify this.
I have never tried a Revolution 4 on my boat, but have compared them side by side to the Offshore and they are HUGE in comparison. Much heavier, and beefier, with thicker blades..the trailing edges look to be 1/4" thick! IMO the Offshore/VenSura would be a better match for your 135's.
One thing I forgot to mention in my previous post was the fantastic stern lifting properties of the Offshore/VenSura props, which we both need to get our hogs out of the water.
If your local dealer will let you demo props, then that is the ideal situation. I can pretty much guarantee that you'll be simply amazed at the overall performance improvement with Offshore/VenSura props. The only negative might be a slight loss in top speed.
Good luck and keep us posted!
Steve
ivansfo posted 08-21-2006 09:18 PM ET (US)
Steve and Tom,
Thanks for the recommendations.
I'm now committed to buying a set of 17P 4-blade props and giving it a try. Narrowed my choices to the Vensura or Revolution-4.
Over the weeked, I got a hold of a LH Rev4 17P. Now I need the same in RH and I can give it a try.
I'm also really interested in the Vensura. After reading more of past postings, it appears the consensus is that the Vensura is a better match for smaller motors like the 135 Optis.
If you know of any deals on new or used 17P Vensuras or Rev-4s, please let me know.
Ivan

diveorfish posted 08-22-2006 11:48 AM ET (US)
For the “what it’s worth” column:
I have a similar problem to you when it comes to planning at lower speeds. Our boats are really heavy 23 footers. When you add all the fuel they can carry plus twins, plus big buddies sitting in the stern seats, our boats can really get stern heavy.
I was talking to the guys at OMS and they suggested that a “Whale Tail” would really help. They don't recommend “Dolphins” because they are thicker and effect performance. I am thinking about getting them. I just don’t see a prop making that much difference but I am no expert to be sure.
Below is something I read after hearing about the Whale Tale:
Original Whale Tail XL Aluminum Stabilizer and ski fin. The Whale Tail XL looks different because it is different. The unique Whale Tail XL design extends out behind the prop to utilize the prop wash energy that normally is lost breaking the water. It transforms that energy to lift against the Whale tail XL for immediate response when the throttle is applied. All the other brands are a poor quality "knock off" of this one. All other brands work off of forward motion only which make them only half as effective as this one. Stainless mounting hardware included. 15-1/2" wide X 13-1/2" long. Works on all I/O's and outboards. Increases top speed in most applications. 3/16" strong marine grade aluminum. Durable anodized finish. Stabilizes bow-light boats. Reduces porpoising and cavatating. Smooths out ride in rough water. Flattens wake for water-skiing and creates positive skid free turns. Pops up skiers in less time. LIFETIME WARRANTY. This is an actual emailed testimonial from one of my customers: (first email) Payment sent! Honestly, I have several motors, and five of them have various other types of what everybody calls "whale tails". Let's redefine the terminology and call them something else. Maybe "stabilizers". It's like they don't even exist compared to the REAL Whale Tail XL. That's why I'm ordering more. Much quicker out of the hole, especially with skiers. Much sweeter trim out. Much higher top end. I'm just chunking my old style as I replace with the XL. Sincerely, Allen Clark (second email) If you want to use my comments as a testimonial, please feel free to do so. I HAVE WITNESSES TO THE FACT OF THE HIGH PERFORMANCE! Allen Clark
prm1177 posted 08-22-2006 02:13 PM ET (US)
the Rev 4 is a heavy prop and will tax your 135's lower unit and make shifting heavier and "clunkier". I have the same setup you have and am considering either a pair of Enertias or the Vensura 4 blade,
ivansfo posted 08-22-2006 03:11 PM ET (US)
Hi Tim and prm1177,
Yeah, our boats are indeed stern heavy.
I have heard good things too about the Whale Tale but they are a turn off to me because they look bulky (and ugly), require drilling, and I'm not sure if there's enough room clearance between the motors. If you go this route, please do let me know your results.
I agree that the Vensura is probably a better prop for the 135hp. But now that I have one of the two rev-4 props needed, I may as well get other prop too and give it a try. I have not read any negative experieces yet (except shift clunk) with the rev-4s on the 135 Optis. If it doesn't work out, I could always sell them. Ideally, I like to get my hands on a pair of 17P Vensuras. Next time I'm at OMS, I will ask them if they have a pair of Vensursas which they can rent to me.
At minimum planing speeds, my boat is falling off plane when running up a wave. So I'm hoping a 4-blade prop would have better holding and maintain planing speed up even when going up a big wave. Trim tabs already help here but I'm hoping the prop would improve it one step further.
Ivan

28 Reborn posted 08-22-2006 08:47 PM ET (US)
Hello Gent's,
4-Blade props will be the answer to your prayers. Look at Turbo Prop OS-I 4-Blades as I have tested the dickens out of them and found them to absolutely a hull-transforming set of screws.
I have a 28 O.R. with 225 Opti's but experienced very similar "unwanted' running characteristics.
Go down 2" in pitch from your correct 3-blade Merc. prop if you are now making at or near your rated RPM's at full throttle when fairly light.
See my posts about "prop testing" in this same Whaler Performance catagory. I have actually settled on 15" Pitch wheels after re-thinking where I wanted my top RPM's to settle but the test shows 17's. Look at the unbelievable mid and low-speed performance gains from these things in my PRM vs. Speed chart for three props tested.
Call Turbo Prop. They are extremely accomodating a,d a LOT Less Expensive than the Merc. Props. You can probably save over $200.00 for the pair!!
Steve
diveorfish posted 10-02-2006 04:11 PM ET (US)
Well Ivansfo et al, I pulled the trigger and got a couple of Whale Tail XLs for my 23 Outrage.
(with twin 135’s with the SS Mirage 17 pitch props, for reference)
There is defiantly a performance difference. Cruising between 25 and 35 mph in the Oakland estuary felt effortless and as smooth as silk. Projecting out, I would have to say that my top end has probably increased. I couldn’t really go WOT because I had my wife and son with me. The Whale Tails definitely help raise the stern and level out the ride.
For the real test though, we motored across the bay to Tiburon for a nice dock side lunch at Sam’s. After lunch we went out the gate through the potato patch, then returned along the San Francisco side, went under the Bay Bridge and back to the Oakland Estuary.
With engines fully tucked in and tabs all the way down I could plane at 15 mph, but any slower it would start dropping off. At about 17 mph the boat planed well and you could consider yourself at a slow speed cruise. Before the Whale Tail, I couldn’t consider myself at a slow speed cruise until about 20 mph or more. I figure I dropped my planing speed by about 3 mph.
The real surprise though was how much the ride improved. Throughout the whole trip the ride was as smooth as a baby’s bottom in spite of there being a few white caps on the bay. I can only guess, but the seas were about 2 ft, maybe 3 just out the Gate. I can’t wait to try this setup in rougher stuff. I kept the speed at about 20 mph part of the time and the boat’s bow stayed down. With the boat’s angle of attack straighter, the boat sliced through the seas remarkably better with zero pounding. I wish I had known about these things before. The boat handles like a dream now.
pineapplepig posted 10-02-2006 05:43 PM ET (US)
Vensura is the prop for you-I think you will find the Rev 4's have too much blade area and cup and will make your motors struggle. Mercury themselves recommend from 175 HP and up and I know that even with 175's it is the absolute minimum. There is also the issue of that much weight on your gearbox.
Tom W Clark posted 10-03-2006 09:10 AM ET (US)
For the record I have to disagree with pineapplepig. The Mercury Revolution 4s can work wonderfully on motors as small as the V-6 135s.
Mercury's recommendations are just that, recommendations. I know them to be inexact. All boats and motors are different and in the case of typical Whalers, the REV 4s seem to be applicable to the smaller V-6s.
You will not know until you try.
fishinchips posted 10-13-2006 11:02 PM ET (US)
I use the whale-tail XL on my hydrasport. It does make a difference. Rides smoother and gets me up on plane quickly. Slow speed plane has improved also. Overall I am happy with this device.
On my 170 montauk, I use a fin also, but a different brand. It also helped alot especially in rough water. Slow speed planning has really improved.
I used to NOT like the looks of these planning aids, but after putting them on I NOW liked them alot.
Ken (22 hydrasports vector wa / 170 montauk )
ivansfo posted 10-14-2006 01:22 AM ET (US)
Diveorfish and Ken. Those are compelling testimonies about benefits of the Whale Tale.
I've been after a pair of 17P Vensuras but haven't been able to find a pair for less than $850. This is looking as a more attractive alternative to the props for now. I'm going to look into it.
Please keep me posted on how the Whale Tale continue to perform on your 23 OR.
Ivan
fishinchips posted 10-24-2006 11:30 AM ET (US)
Ivan,
You drove my hydrasport with the new repower (225 etec), Since then I put on the whaletail.
When you got the time, I let you drive it around this coming saturday.
Ken
ivansfo posted 09-18-2007 02:55 PM ET (US)
With such good feedback on the WhaleTail XL, I pulled the trigger on a pair of these. At $50 each, they were a relatively a small investment to try out. My biggest hurdle was to overcome the reluctance of drilling 4 holes on each of my motors. Spent 1.5 hours on a Sunday afternoon and got these installed.
http://home.sanbrunocable.com/~ivanlum101/boat/whale-tail-2.JPG
http://home.sanbrunocable.com/~ivanlum101/boat/whale-tail-2.JPG

To test them out, I took the boat out this past Saturday for some offshore tuna. Seas were super calm that day so this wasn't really a good day to test if these helped the ride. On that day all I can say is that the WhaleTail does appear to help keep the stern level. It "feels" like it would stay on plane easier than before.
One other pleasant surprise is that I think this WhaleTail helped reduce motor noise. My biggest gripe about the Optimax is the loud roar at about 3500-4000 rpm. This past Saturday, the motors didn't sound as noisy as ithey used to be. Could it be that the WhaleTail is acting as a baffle for the exhaust noise at prop?
diveorfish posted 09-18-2007 04:29 PM ET (US)
Congrats on the tails Ivansfo. I think the engines are quieter because your boat is running at a more level attitude with them. The props aren’t spending as much energy digging to get the stern up because they now have some help.
I can’t believe it was that calm this past Saturday. Was it even calm under the gate? It always seems like the NOAA forecast exaggerates a bit. I didn’t go last weekend because I thought it would be a bit rough to take my son out in. Since it was so calm, I was wondering if you took the opportunity to put the hammer down to see if your top end improved with the tails?
I know the tails keep you from pounding in 3-4 foots seas. I have yet to test them in the 4’+ seas you get just to the west of Blowdega head. I might do that this Saturday.
ivansfo posted 09-18-2007 06:00 PM ET (US)
diveorfish, I wouldn't have gotten the tails if it wasn't for your feedback. Thanks for sharing.
I ran out of HMB so I don't know how it was out there under the Golden Gate. NOAA's forecast is always conservative and I remember Saturday called for winds 10 knots or less with wind waves 1-2 feet, swell to about 3 feet. That's nothing for a boat like yours even under the gate. This is what it looked 40 miles out at Pioneer Canyon.
[img]http://home.sanbrunocable.com/~ivanlum101/fishing/tuna/trolling.jpg[/img]
And one more picture of the tails.
[img]http://home.sanbrunocable.com/~ivanlum101/boat/whale-tail-1.JPG[/img]
Good luck Saturday at Bodega! Forecast definitely looks fishable.

POINT ARENA TO PIGEON POINT TO 20 NM-
249 PM PDT TUE SEP 18 2007
SAT AND SUN
S WINDS 5 TO 15 KT. WIND WAVES 2 FT. NW SWELL 4 TO 7 FT
AND SW 2 FT.
ivansfo posted 09-18-2007 06:05 PM ET (US)
Darn...let's try this again.
This is what it looked 40 miles out at Pioneer Canyon.
http://home.sanbrunocable.com/~ivanlum101/fishing/tuna/trolling.jpg
And one more picture of the tails.
http://home.sanbrunocable.com/~ivanlum101/boat/whale-tail-1.JPG
diveorfish posted 09-19-2007 01:10 AM ET (US)
Looked like a nice day.
One thing Barney at OMS said about the tails: Frequently check to make sure those screws are tight. I make that part of my checklist. So far I've only had to tighten them down once. They will make you fall in love with your boat all over again.
ivansfo posted 08-11-2008 05:15 PM ET (US)
Just want to update this thread with my final tweak to my motors/boat. The WhaleTail was a definite improvement in helping lift the stern and reduce exhaust noise. However, I still wanted to see how a set of 4 blade props would perform on my boat.
I finally got a pair of 19" pitch four-blade Mercury Offshores (aka Vensuras) on the boat this summer. After 3 trips out (two in moderate seas and one in calm waters, I am happy to report the 4 blade props improved on traction. At low speeds, the 4 blade props feel like I now have 4 wheel drive on the boat. Hole shot is improved and I haven't noticed the prop ventilate at all. Tested WOT inside SF Bay and managed 5500 rpm at 43mph. Probably could have gotten 44-45mph if I played more with the trim but I just wanted to make sure I can reach max RPMs with the 19P props.
Before testing WOT, I was thinking 19P might have been too much pitch but now I feel it's the right prop for the boat.
ivansfo posted 08-11-2008 05:15 PM ET (US)
Just want to update this thread with my final tweak to my motors/boat. The WhaleTail was a definite improvement in helping lift the stern and reduce exhaust noise. However, I still wanted to see how a set of 4 blade props would perform on my boat.
I finally got a pair of 19" pitch four-blade Mercury Offshores (aka Vensuras) on the boat this summer. After 3 trips out (two in moderate seas and one in calm waters, I am happy to report the 4 blade props improved on traction. At low speeds, the 4 blade props feel like I now have 4 wheel drive on the boat. Hole shot is improved and I haven't noticed the prop ventilate at all. Tested WOT inside SF Bay and managed 5500 rpm at 43mph. Probably could have gotten 44-45mph if I played more with the trim but I just wanted to make sure I can reach max RPMs with the 19P props.
Before testing WOT, I was thinking 19P might have been too much pitch but now I feel it's the right prop for the boat.

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Author	Topic: CONQUEST 23: Vensura Four-blade Propeller, Twin Optimax-135HP
ivansfo	posted 08-08-2006 05:49 PM ET (US) Since I got my 23 Conquest 4 years ago, hole shot and mid-range holding has always bugged me about this boat. During a holeshot, my twin 135 engines must be trimmed all the way in to prevent the props from cavitating. Planing starts at about 19mph and I can get it down to maybe 17 or 18mph with trim tabs both down. But it is difficult to maintain plane at any speeds under 20mph. In the typical ocean waters off San Francisco, most conmfortable cruise is about 15mph and it often pounds when cruising at speeds over 20mph. So my boat either plows (before plane) or goes too fast. Seems there isn't much in between. I rode on a few other boats and found midrange could be much better. Now I want to try and do something about this. I have two ideas. One is to lower the engines down one more hole to its lowest possible position. I think this would give the current props more water to grab. But lowering the engines is no easy task. I will need to involve dealer labor to move the engines for such a test. The other idea which I like better is going to a 4 blade prop such as the Vensura or Revolution. To keep the upgrade costs to a minimal, I want to buy used or online. So that rules out the practice of trying loaner props from the dealer. I would have to take a plunge on a set of props and hope it actually does improve perforance. Because the Vensura is more readily avaiable new and used, I'm hoping a pair of Vensura 17p would greatly improve hole shot and mid-range cruising. I'm not so concerned about top end. I would gladly trade losing 2-3mph for a nice mid-range cruise. Any thoughts if this is the right approach? MY CURRENT SETUP: -23 Conqeust -Twin 135 Optimax w/ gear Ratio 2:1 -Pair of Mercury Mirage Plus SS 14.25" x 17P (LH and RH) -WOT about 5900 RPM at 44mph -Planes at about 3000 RPM at 19mph -Engines mounted 2nd hole from the top. One more mounting hole to lower them.
Backlash	posted 08-08-2006 06:36 PM ET (US) I'm a huge fan of the Offshore/VenSura 4-blade props. Made a huge difference in my 21' Walkaround as far as hole shot, time to plane, acceleration, etc. Like my 21, your 23' Conquest probably digs a big hole too when getting on plane. FYI, if you decide to go with the Offshore/VenSuras I would leave the engines where they are until you try them. I'm also running the medium hole vent plugs which lets the prop spool up before it hooks up. This sounds like the right approach to me! Steve
Tom W Clark	posted 08-09-2006 10:40 AM ET (US) I suggest you try a pair of 17" Mercury Revolution 4 for starters. These props will grip better than the small bladed Offshore/Vensuras, though those are excellent props as well. I agree with Steve, leave the motor where it is until you have settled on the ideal prop. In the end you may not have to move the motors at all. Another prop to try is the Mercury High Five, though I am unsure if they are manufactured in a 17" counter rotation.
ivansfo	posted 08-10-2006 07:30 PM ET (US) I wouldn't mind trying a set of Merc Revolutions but they sure are pricey, especially when I have to get a pair! Anyone know if the Vensura and Offshore model props are 100% identical? In my search for used props, it might be easier to find them individually. I'm wondering if it would be wise to run one Vensura and one Offshore at the same time. One more idea I thought of recently. I'm going to ask my local dealer if I can pay and rent some of their demo props. I would be much more comfortable buying a new set of props if I was certain performance will improve. Thanks, Ivan
Backlash	posted 08-12-2006 09:04 AM ET (US) Ivan, It is my understanding that the Offshore/VenSura props are one and the same. You might want to call Mercury to verify this. I have never tried a Revolution 4 on my boat, but have compared them side by side to the Offshore and they are HUGE in comparison. Much heavier, and beefier, with thicker blades..the trailing edges look to be 1/4" thick! IMO the Offshore/VenSura would be a better match for your 135's. One thing I forgot to mention in my previous post was the fantastic stern lifting properties of the Offshore/VenSura props, which we both need to get our hogs out of the water. If your local dealer will let you demo props, then that is the ideal situation. I can pretty much guarantee that you'll be simply amazed at the overall performance improvement with Offshore/VenSura props. The only negative might be a slight loss in top speed. Good luck and keep us posted! Steve
ivansfo	posted 08-21-2006 09:18 PM ET (US) Steve and Tom, Thanks for the recommendations. I'm now committed to buying a set of 17P 4-blade props and giving it a try. Narrowed my choices to the Vensura or Revolution-4. Over the weeked, I got a hold of a LH Rev4 17P. Now I need the same in RH and I can give it a try. I'm also really interested in the Vensura. After reading more of past postings, it appears the consensus is that the Vensura is a better match for smaller motors like the 135 Optis. If you know of any deals on new or used 17P Vensuras or Rev-4s, please let me know. Ivan
diveorfish	posted 08-22-2006 11:48 AM ET (US) For the “what it’s worth” column: I have a similar problem to you when it comes to planning at lower speeds. Our boats are really heavy 23 footers. When you add all the fuel they can carry plus twins, plus big buddies sitting in the stern seats, our boats can really get stern heavy. I was talking to the guys at OMS and they suggested that a “Whale Tail” would really help. They don't recommend “Dolphins” because they are thicker and effect performance. I am thinking about getting them. I just don’t see a prop making that much difference but I am no expert to be sure. Below is something I read after hearing about the Whale Tale: Original Whale Tail XL Aluminum Stabilizer and ski fin. The Whale Tail XL looks different because it is different. The unique Whale Tail XL design extends out behind the prop to utilize the prop wash energy that normally is lost breaking the water. It transforms that energy to lift against the Whale tail XL for immediate response when the throttle is applied. All the other brands are a poor quality "knock off" of this one. All other brands work off of forward motion only which make them only half as effective as this one. Stainless mounting hardware included. 15-1/2" wide X 13-1/2" long. Works on all I/O's and outboards. Increases top speed in most applications. 3/16" strong marine grade aluminum. Durable anodized finish. Stabilizes bow-light boats. Reduces porpoising and cavatating. Smooths out ride in rough water. Flattens wake for water-skiing and creates positive skid free turns. Pops up skiers in less time. LIFETIME WARRANTY. This is an actual emailed testimonial from one of my customers: (first email) Payment sent! Honestly, I have several motors, and five of them have various other types of what everybody calls "whale tails". Let's redefine the terminology and call them something else. Maybe "stabilizers". It's like they don't even exist compared to the REAL Whale Tail XL. That's why I'm ordering more. Much quicker out of the hole, especially with skiers. Much sweeter trim out. Much higher top end. I'm just chunking my old style as I replace with the XL. Sincerely, Allen Clark (second email) If you want to use my comments as a testimonial, please feel free to do so. I HAVE WITNESSES TO THE FACT OF THE HIGH PERFORMANCE! Allen Clark
prm1177	posted 08-22-2006 02:13 PM ET (US) the Rev 4 is a heavy prop and will tax your 135's lower unit and make shifting heavier and "clunkier". I have the same setup you have and am considering either a pair of Enertias or the Vensura 4 blade,
ivansfo	posted 08-22-2006 03:11 PM ET (US) Hi Tim and prm1177, Yeah, our boats are indeed stern heavy. I have heard good things too about the Whale Tale but they are a turn off to me because they look bulky (and ugly), require drilling, and I'm not sure if there's enough room clearance between the motors. If you go this route, please do let me know your results. I agree that the Vensura is probably a better prop for the 135hp. But now that I have one of the two rev-4 props needed, I may as well get other prop too and give it a try. I have not read any negative experieces yet (except shift clunk) with the rev-4s on the 135 Optis. If it doesn't work out, I could always sell them. Ideally, I like to get my hands on a pair of 17P Vensuras. Next time I'm at OMS, I will ask them if they have a pair of Vensursas which they can rent to me. At minimum planing speeds, my boat is falling off plane when running up a wave. So I'm hoping a 4-blade prop would have better holding and maintain planing speed up even when going up a big wave. Trim tabs already help here but I'm hoping the prop would improve it one step further. Ivan
28 Reborn	posted 08-22-2006 08:47 PM ET (US) Hello Gent's, 4-Blade props will be the answer to your prayers. Look at Turbo Prop OS-I 4-Blades as I have tested the dickens out of them and found them to absolutely a hull-transforming set of screws. I have a 28 O.R. with 225 Opti's but experienced very similar "unwanted' running characteristics. Go down 2" in pitch from your correct 3-blade Merc. prop if you are now making at or near your rated RPM's at full throttle when fairly light. See my posts about "prop testing" in this same Whaler Performance catagory. I have actually settled on 15" Pitch wheels after re-thinking where I wanted my top RPM's to settle but the test shows 17's. Look at the unbelievable mid and low-speed performance gains from these things in my PRM vs. Speed chart for three props tested. Call Turbo Prop. They are extremely accomodating a,d a LOT Less Expensive than the Merc. Props. You can probably save over $200.00 for the pair!! Steve
diveorfish	posted 10-02-2006 04:11 PM ET (US) Well Ivansfo et al, I pulled the trigger and got a couple of Whale Tail XLs for my 23 Outrage. (with twin 135’s with the SS Mirage 17 pitch props, for reference) There is defiantly a performance difference. Cruising between 25 and 35 mph in the Oakland estuary felt effortless and as smooth as silk. Projecting out, I would have to say that my top end has probably increased. I couldn’t really go WOT because I had my wife and son with me. The Whale Tails definitely help raise the stern and level out the ride. For the real test though, we motored across the bay to Tiburon for a nice dock side lunch at Sam’s. After lunch we went out the gate through the potato patch, then returned along the San Francisco side, went under the Bay Bridge and back to the Oakland Estuary. With engines fully tucked in and tabs all the way down I could plane at 15 mph, but any slower it would start dropping off. At about 17 mph the boat planed well and you could consider yourself at a slow speed cruise. Before the Whale Tail, I couldn’t consider myself at a slow speed cruise until about 20 mph or more. I figure I dropped my planing speed by about 3 mph. The real surprise though was how much the ride improved. Throughout the whole trip the ride was as smooth as a baby’s bottom in spite of there being a few white caps on the bay. I can only guess, but the seas were about 2 ft, maybe 3 just out the Gate. I can’t wait to try this setup in rougher stuff. I kept the speed at about 20 mph part of the time and the boat’s bow stayed down. With the boat’s angle of attack straighter, the boat sliced through the seas remarkably better with zero pounding. I wish I had known about these things before. The boat handles like a dream now.
pineapplepig	posted 10-02-2006 05:43 PM ET (US) Vensura is the prop for you-I think you will find the Rev 4's have too much blade area and cup and will make your motors struggle. Mercury themselves recommend from 175 HP and up and I know that even with 175's it is the absolute minimum. There is also the issue of that much weight on your gearbox.
Tom W Clark	posted 10-03-2006 09:10 AM ET (US) For the record I have to disagree with pineapplepig. The Mercury Revolution 4s can work wonderfully on motors as small as the V-6 135s. Mercury's recommendations are just that, recommendations. I know them to be inexact. All boats and motors are different and in the case of typical Whalers, the REV 4s seem to be applicable to the smaller V-6s. You will not know until you try.
fishinchips	posted 10-13-2006 11:02 PM ET (US) I use the whale-tail XL on my hydrasport. It does make a difference. Rides smoother and gets me up on plane quickly. Slow speed plane has improved also. Overall I am happy with this device. On my 170 montauk, I use a fin also, but a different brand. It also helped alot especially in rough water. Slow speed planning has really improved. I used to NOT like the looks of these planning aids, but after putting them on I NOW liked them alot. Ken (22 hydrasports vector wa / 170 montauk )
ivansfo	posted 10-14-2006 01:22 AM ET (US) Diveorfish and Ken. Those are compelling testimonies about benefits of the Whale Tale. I've been after a pair of 17P Vensuras but haven't been able to find a pair for less than $850. This is looking as a more attractive alternative to the props for now. I'm going to look into it. Please keep me posted on how the Whale Tale continue to perform on your 23 OR. Ivan
fishinchips	posted 10-24-2006 11:30 AM ET (US) Ivan, You drove my hydrasport with the new repower (225 etec), Since then I put on the whaletail. When you got the time, I let you drive it around this coming saturday. Ken
ivansfo	posted 09-18-2007 02:55 PM ET (US) With such good feedback on the WhaleTail XL, I pulled the trigger on a pair of these. At $50 each, they were a relatively a small investment to try out. My biggest hurdle was to overcome the reluctance of drilling 4 holes on each of my motors. Spent 1.5 hours on a Sunday afternoon and got these installed. http://home.sanbrunocable.com/~ivanlum101/boat/whale-tail-2.JPG http://home.sanbrunocable.com/~ivanlum101/boat/whale-tail-2.JPG To test them out, I took the boat out this past Saturday for some offshore tuna. Seas were super calm that day so this wasn't really a good day to test if these helped the ride. On that day all I can say is that the WhaleTail does appear to help keep the stern level. It "feels" like it would stay on plane easier than before. One other pleasant surprise is that I think this WhaleTail helped reduce motor noise. My biggest gripe about the Optimax is the loud roar at about 3500-4000 rpm. This past Saturday, the motors didn't sound as noisy as ithey used to be. Could it be that the WhaleTail is acting as a baffle for the exhaust noise at prop?
diveorfish	posted 09-18-2007 04:29 PM ET (US) Congrats on the tails Ivansfo. I think the engines are quieter because your boat is running at a more level attitude with them. The props aren’t spending as much energy digging to get the stern up because they now have some help. I can’t believe it was that calm this past Saturday. Was it even calm under the gate? It always seems like the NOAA forecast exaggerates a bit. I didn’t go last weekend because I thought it would be a bit rough to take my son out in. Since it was so calm, I was wondering if you took the opportunity to put the hammer down to see if your top end improved with the tails? I know the tails keep you from pounding in 3-4 foots seas. I have yet to test them in the 4’+ seas you get just to the west of Blowdega head. I might do that this Saturday.
ivansfo	posted 09-18-2007 06:00 PM ET (US) diveorfish, I wouldn't have gotten the tails if it wasn't for your feedback. Thanks for sharing. I ran out of HMB so I don't know how it was out there under the Golden Gate. NOAA's forecast is always conservative and I remember Saturday called for winds 10 knots or less with wind waves 1-2 feet, swell to about 3 feet. That's nothing for a boat like yours even under the gate. This is what it looked 40 miles out at Pioneer Canyon. [img]http://home.sanbrunocable.com/~ivanlum101/fishing/tuna/trolling.jpg[/img] And one more picture of the tails. [img]http://home.sanbrunocable.com/~ivanlum101/boat/whale-tail-1.JPG[/img] Good luck Saturday at Bodega! Forecast definitely looks fishable. POINT ARENA TO PIGEON POINT TO 20 NM- 249 PM PDT TUE SEP 18 2007 SAT AND SUN S WINDS 5 TO 15 KT. WIND WAVES 2 FT. NW SWELL 4 TO 7 FT AND SW 2 FT.
ivansfo	posted 09-18-2007 06:05 PM ET (US) Darn...let's try this again. This is what it looked 40 miles out at Pioneer Canyon. http://home.sanbrunocable.com/~ivanlum101/fishing/tuna/trolling.jpg And one more picture of the tails. http://home.sanbrunocable.com/~ivanlum101/boat/whale-tail-1.JPG
diveorfish	posted 09-19-2007 01:10 AM ET (US) Looked like a nice day. One thing Barney at OMS said about the tails: Frequently check to make sure those screws are tight. I make that part of my checklist. So far I've only had to tighten them down once. They will make you fall in love with your boat all over again.
ivansfo	posted 08-11-2008 05:15 PM ET (US) Just want to update this thread with my final tweak to my motors/boat. The WhaleTail was a definite improvement in helping lift the stern and reduce exhaust noise. However, I still wanted to see how a set of 4 blade props would perform on my boat. I finally got a pair of 19" pitch four-blade Mercury Offshores (aka Vensuras) on the boat this summer. After 3 trips out (two in moderate seas and one in calm waters, I am happy to report the 4 blade props improved on traction. At low speeds, the 4 blade props feel like I now have 4 wheel drive on the boat. Hole shot is improved and I haven't noticed the prop ventilate at all. Tested WOT inside SF Bay and managed 5500 rpm at 43mph. Probably could have gotten 44-45mph if I played more with the trim but I just wanted to make sure I can reach max RPMs with the 19P props. Before testing WOT, I was thinking 19P might have been too much pitch but now I feel it's the right prop for the boat.
ivansfo	posted 08-11-2008 05:15 PM ET (US) Just want to update this thread with my final tweak to my motors/boat. The WhaleTail was a definite improvement in helping lift the stern and reduce exhaust noise. However, I still wanted to see how a set of 4 blade props would perform on my boat. I finally got a pair of 19" pitch four-blade Mercury Offshores (aka Vensuras) on the boat this summer. After 3 trips out (two in moderate seas and one in calm waters, I am happy to report the 4 blade props improved on traction. At low speeds, the 4 blade props feel like I now have 4 wheel drive on the boat. Hole shot is improved and I haven't noticed the prop ventilate at all. Tested WOT inside SF Bay and managed 5500 rpm at 43mph. Probably could have gotten 44-45mph if I played more with the trim but I just wanted to make sure I can reach max RPMs with the 19P props. Before testing WOT, I was thinking 19P might have been too much pitch but now I feel it's the right prop for the boat.