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Author Topic:   Propeller for Outrage-18 with E-TEC 150

ratherwhalering posted 09-13-2006 12:55 AM ET (US)
I'm curious what folks are putting on this set up. We're going to try a Stiletto 14.25 x 17 on Matt's boat (1982 Outrage-18 with 2006 E-TEC 150) as a start point. I know Jay is running an aluminum 14.8 x 17, at 45 MPH with 5200 RPM.

blacksmithdog posted 09-14-2006 08:48 AM ET (US)
Gosh and golly, I can't believe anyone didn't answer this!
I'm not running a 150 hp E-TEC on my Outrage 18, I am running a 150 hp Evinrude 2-stroke. My prop is a SS OEM 14.25" x 17".
It seems to be just right for what I do. We spend a lot of time skiing. I can pull up my 225 pound son (yes, he plays football) and my wife, both on slalom skis. Per the speedo, I can get right around 45 mph at 5500 rpms (I realize boat speedos aren't necessarily accurate).
ratherwhalering posted 09-14-2006 01:13 PM ET (US)
Thanks, that is good information. With the Stiletto, we expect to see lower RPM than the SST, however the engine is mounted using CMC 4-inch set back brackets, so we hope to be able to raise the engine enough to hit between 5500 and 5750 RPM at WOT without excessive cavitation. Our goal is +/- 45 MPH at 5750 RPM at WOT.
I can't imagine running a 15-inch pitch prop on this baby, so if the WOT RPMs are low (5000-5200), we'll try a BRP 17-inch SST or Viper.
The Judge posted 09-14-2006 01:17 PM ET (US)
I thought that rig should run about 50 with a 150 e-tec? I know they are getting 45ish with the 140 Suzukis.
prj posted 09-14-2006 01:56 PM ET (US)
I've heard of neither 50 with the E-TEC nor
45 with that 140 HP Suzuki.
Where did you get your numbers, Judge?
ratherwhalering posted 09-14-2006 02:42 PM ET (US)
Nick, I'm using the previous speed achieved on the same boat with a 1991 Mercury Black Max 150HP (no set back brackets) as a guide. 44MPH.
The Judge posted 09-14-2006 03:19 PM ET (US)
Many hear have posted 48-50mph with 150's. If my 1600+lb Revenge would do 48+ GPS why should'nt a 1250# 18'? My 19 will also hit 40 with a 115 suzuki 4s and eleape(sp?) is getting over 40 with his 115 Yammie 4s on an 18'. If a 115 will fetch you 40+, why spend all that $$ to go 44? Not being sarcastic just questioning the extra $3000 for 3-4mph.
The Judge posted 09-14-2006 03:23 PM ET (US)
prj you are claiming 45.4 with a 130 V4 and you do not think 50 with a V6 or 45 with a 140 4s is being obtained?
george nagy posted 09-14-2006 03:39 PM ET (US)
Ratherwhalering,
Sorry I have no idea which prop to use for that setup but I would sure like to see a picture of that 150 mounted on that setback bracket. I can tell you that while my 1998 150 johnson was mounted one hole up on my 18' outrage running a counter omc viper 14.5 x 19 I would hit just over 38 knots with medium load but still needed another 300 rpm to max out.
prj posted 09-14-2006 03:49 PM ET (US)
That's the kicker Judge, I don't see guys posting GPS measured speeds of 50 MPH with the 150 HP engines. Hell, I don't even see them "claiming" 50 MPH.
ratherwhalering posted 09-14-2006 04:22 PM ET (US)
While I have personally piloted a 1985 Outrage-18 with a 150 Johnson Silverstar engine, at approximately 50MPH, it had a 12-inch jackplate, trim tabs, and was light and trimmed out. Perhaps I'm setting my goals too low. Is 47-48 MPH more realistic?
Using a formula suggested by Clark Roberts, Whaler enthusiast Peter Elke of San Francisco (PeteInSF) computed the predicted speed for the Outrage-18 at 44MPH. This is entirely consistant with Matt's previous performance.
I'll try the propeller calculator, first using my known Montauk numbers. (I also have an Evinrude E-TEC, identical set-back brackets, and a Stiletto Advantage propeller). 5500 RPM, 2:1 gear ratio, 15-pitch prop, 42.5 MPH.... -8.8. Slip.
Using this as a base for the 18-Outrage, I calculate:
5750 RPM, 1.86:1 gear ratio, 17-pitch prop, -8.8 Slip....54.1 MPH.
O.K. that ain't gonna happen...
Using the "couch calculator" (just kidding) and a hull factor of 195, puts the hull speed at 47.6 MPH. This seems a little more in line with Nick's experience.
I'll post results in a few weeks, and hopefully have some further information.
george nagy posted 09-14-2006 05:06 PM ET (US)
I would think that the 47-48 mph speed target is more like it with the 150 e-tec. I carry two ancors and at least 3/4 tank fuel at least two people and other stuff when I'm getting 38+ knots or (45-47 mph).
seahorse posted 09-14-2006 05:48 PM ET (US)

ratherwhalering,

Use 1.86:1 instead of 2:1 for the gear ratio when using a prop calculator for a Johnson or Evinrude V6
ratherwhalering posted 09-14-2006 07:48 PM ET (US)
Yep, I did :-)
Perry posted 09-15-2006 02:14 AM ET (US)
George, 38 knots = 43.7 MPH.
Tom W Clark posted 09-15-2006 09:51 AM ET (US)
Most Outrage 18s with conventional 150s will do 45-48 MPH. I would guess the new E-Tec 150 will do 45 MPH tops based on the restrained top speeds of the the E-Tec models.
I concur, a 17" pitch prop would be the best starting point unless a Stiletto Advantage II was used, in which case I recommend a 15" pitch.
Patrick,
Did you ever get a chance to run your Outrage with a GPS this summer?
prj posted 09-15-2006 09:57 AM ET (US)
Yes I did, Tom.
Topic heading of Outrage-18 w/ 130 Yamaha, right next door to this.
Tom W Clark posted 09-15-2006 10:00 AM ET (US)
Patrick,
Oops, belay that. I'm reading now...
The Judge posted 09-15-2006 12:14 PM ET (US)
After reading the other "weight" post of an 18' I guess that might be why I am wrong here. I am thinking 1250-1400lbs for a 18' where my 19' weighs 1600. Many are now saying the 18 is more like 17-1800lbs which is a MAJOR difference and a speed killer. Sorry if I sounded argumentative....I just think if prj is getting 45+ from a 130 yammie, there is NO reason why 50 is not obtainable with a 150 v6 if set up correctly. That 18 is supposed to be 350lbs heavier than a montauk. I know if I stuck a fat man and a 150 on a 17', she would do more than 50 ;) I also think all boats should have a manula jackplate if weight is not a concern(like on a 13'). I can raise my engine up 4+" above w/o plate. Probably where I get another 2mph out of my rigs than others. Funny thing is I will run ALL day at 3900, never touch the trottle so it does not really mean squat to me and the way I drive. I bet if you took my 70 suzuki and put it on a puter I would have about 10 minutes TOTAL at WOT out of the 250 hours or so on it. Most of that would be from prop testing. Good luck gentlemen and God Speed.
The Judge posted 09-15-2006 12:18 PM ET (US)
PS...boats will run faster on salt water than fresh due to bouyancy of the salt water. That might be why some of you fresh water guys are 1-2mph slower? Anyone know how much that affects boats?
ratherwhalering posted 09-15-2006 01:10 PM ET (US)
I'm not convinced you are wrong, Nick. I have a terrible secret I have to admit. Matt's Outrage was running a 4-blade prop when I clocked it at 44 MPH. I think it was aluminum too. I totally forgot about that. With the addition of the 4-inch adjustable set-back brackets and a Stiletto 3-blade 14.25 x 17-inch prop, I think it is totally reasonable to expect 48-50 MPH. I wholeheartedly agree that every boat should have an adjustable bracket/plate. I believe it is easier to mount a jackplate to the transom, and then the engine to the jackplate, than it is to mount the engine straight to the hull. It takes a few more minutes, but sealing the mounting bolts to a lightweight bracket/plate beats maneuvering the engine around on the transom for proper alignment any day of the week. The engine then simply bolts to the brackets/plate, with plenty of room to align the mounting bolts. Anyway, I digress...
Honestly, I rarely run my boat at WOT. I do, however, believe that a boat which runs at its maximum RPM at WOT and achieves a respectable MPH will perform better at all other RPM ranges, and cause less stress on the engine. This is my primary interest in WOT RPM/MPH numbers.
george nagy posted 09-25-2006 02:00 PM ET (US)
I just ran my 18' with 1995 140 johnson which I believe has the same lower unit as my v6 150. Propped with a viper ss 15x17 and 3 adults and 3/4 full tank she hit WOT 37.9 mph on gps. Not bad for this setup however I think the tach is disfunctional as it was pegged at over 7k. I should ad that the engine is mounted one hole up.

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Author	Topic: Propeller for Outrage-18 with E-TEC 150
ratherwhalering	posted 09-13-2006 12:55 AM ET (US) I'm curious what folks are putting on this set up. We're going to try a Stiletto 14.25 x 17 on Matt's boat (1982 Outrage-18 with 2006 E-TEC 150) as a start point. I know Jay is running an aluminum 14.8 x 17, at 45 MPH with 5200 RPM.
blacksmithdog	posted 09-14-2006 08:48 AM ET (US) Gosh and golly, I can't believe anyone didn't answer this! I'm not running a 150 hp E-TEC on my Outrage 18, I am running a 150 hp Evinrude 2-stroke. My prop is a SS OEM 14.25" x 17". It seems to be just right for what I do. We spend a lot of time skiing. I can pull up my 225 pound son (yes, he plays football) and my wife, both on slalom skis. Per the speedo, I can get right around 45 mph at 5500 rpms (I realize boat speedos aren't necessarily accurate).
ratherwhalering	posted 09-14-2006 01:13 PM ET (US) Thanks, that is good information. With the Stiletto, we expect to see lower RPM than the SST, however the engine is mounted using CMC 4-inch set back brackets, so we hope to be able to raise the engine enough to hit between 5500 and 5750 RPM at WOT without excessive cavitation. Our goal is +/- 45 MPH at 5750 RPM at WOT. I can't imagine running a 15-inch pitch prop on this baby, so if the WOT RPMs are low (5000-5200), we'll try a BRP 17-inch SST or Viper.
The Judge	posted 09-14-2006 01:17 PM ET (US) I thought that rig should run about 50 with a 150 e-tec? I know they are getting 45ish with the 140 Suzukis.
prj	posted 09-14-2006 01:56 PM ET (US) I've heard of neither 50 with the E-TEC nor 45 with that 140 HP Suzuki. Where did you get your numbers, Judge?
ratherwhalering	posted 09-14-2006 02:42 PM ET (US) Nick, I'm using the previous speed achieved on the same boat with a 1991 Mercury Black Max 150HP (no set back brackets) as a guide. 44MPH.
The Judge	posted 09-14-2006 03:19 PM ET (US) Many hear have posted 48-50mph with 150's. If my 1600+lb Revenge would do 48+ GPS why should'nt a 1250# 18'? My 19 will also hit 40 with a 115 suzuki 4s and eleape(sp?) is getting over 40 with his 115 Yammie 4s on an 18'. If a 115 will fetch you 40+, why spend all that $$ to go 44? Not being sarcastic just questioning the extra $3000 for 3-4mph.
The Judge	posted 09-14-2006 03:23 PM ET (US) prj you are claiming 45.4 with a 130 V4 and you do not think 50 with a V6 or 45 with a 140 4s is being obtained?
george nagy	posted 09-14-2006 03:39 PM ET (US) Ratherwhalering, Sorry I have no idea which prop to use for that setup but I would sure like to see a picture of that 150 mounted on that setback bracket. I can tell you that while my 1998 150 johnson was mounted one hole up on my 18' outrage running a counter omc viper 14.5 x 19 I would hit just over 38 knots with medium load but still needed another 300 rpm to max out.
prj	posted 09-14-2006 03:49 PM ET (US) That's the kicker Judge, I don't see guys posting GPS measured speeds of 50 MPH with the 150 HP engines. Hell, I don't even see them "claiming" 50 MPH.
ratherwhalering	posted 09-14-2006 04:22 PM ET (US) While I have personally piloted a 1985 Outrage-18 with a 150 Johnson Silverstar engine, at approximately 50MPH, it had a 12-inch jackplate, trim tabs, and was light and trimmed out. Perhaps I'm setting my goals too low. Is 47-48 MPH more realistic? Using a formula suggested by Clark Roberts, Whaler enthusiast Peter Elke of San Francisco (PeteInSF) computed the predicted speed for the Outrage-18 at 44MPH. This is entirely consistant with Matt's previous performance. I'll try the propeller calculator, first using my known Montauk numbers. (I also have an Evinrude E-TEC, identical set-back brackets, and a Stiletto Advantage propeller). 5500 RPM, 2:1 gear ratio, 15-pitch prop, 42.5 MPH.... -8.8. Slip. Using this as a base for the 18-Outrage, I calculate: 5750 RPM, 1.86:1 gear ratio, 17-pitch prop, -8.8 Slip....54.1 MPH. O.K. that ain't gonna happen... Using the "couch calculator" (just kidding) and a hull factor of 195, puts the hull speed at 47.6 MPH. This seems a little more in line with Nick's experience. I'll post results in a few weeks, and hopefully have some further information.
george nagy	posted 09-14-2006 05:06 PM ET (US) I would think that the 47-48 mph speed target is more like it with the 150 e-tec. I carry two ancors and at least 3/4 tank fuel at least two people and other stuff when I'm getting 38+ knots or (45-47 mph).
seahorse	posted 09-14-2006 05:48 PM ET (US) ratherwhalering, Use 1.86:1 instead of 2:1 for the gear ratio when using a prop calculator for a Johnson or Evinrude V6
ratherwhalering	posted 09-14-2006 07:48 PM ET (US) Yep, I did :-)
Perry	posted 09-15-2006 02:14 AM ET (US) George, 38 knots = 43.7 MPH.
Tom W Clark	posted 09-15-2006 09:51 AM ET (US) Most Outrage 18s with conventional 150s will do 45-48 MPH. I would guess the new E-Tec 150 will do 45 MPH tops based on the restrained top speeds of the the E-Tec models. I concur, a 17" pitch prop would be the best starting point unless a Stiletto Advantage II was used, in which case I recommend a 15" pitch. Patrick, Did you ever get a chance to run your Outrage with a GPS this summer?
prj	posted 09-15-2006 09:57 AM ET (US) Yes I did, Tom. Topic heading of Outrage-18 w/ 130 Yamaha, right next door to this.
Tom W Clark	posted 09-15-2006 10:00 AM ET (US) Patrick, Oops, belay that. I'm reading now...
The Judge	posted 09-15-2006 12:14 PM ET (US) After reading the other "weight" post of an 18' I guess that might be why I am wrong here. I am thinking 1250-1400lbs for a 18' where my 19' weighs 1600. Many are now saying the 18 is more like 17-1800lbs which is a MAJOR difference and a speed killer. Sorry if I sounded argumentative....I just think if prj is getting 45+ from a 130 yammie, there is NO reason why 50 is not obtainable with a 150 v6 if set up correctly. That 18 is supposed to be 350lbs heavier than a montauk. I know if I stuck a fat man and a 150 on a 17', she would do more than 50 ;) I also think all boats should have a manula jackplate if weight is not a concern(like on a 13'). I can raise my engine up 4+" above w/o plate. Probably where I get another 2mph out of my rigs than others. Funny thing is I will run ALL day at 3900, never touch the trottle so it does not really mean squat to me and the way I drive. I bet if you took my 70 suzuki and put it on a puter I would have about 10 minutes TOTAL at WOT out of the 250 hours or so on it. Most of that would be from prop testing. Good luck gentlemen and God Speed.
The Judge	posted 09-15-2006 12:18 PM ET (US) PS...boats will run faster on salt water than fresh due to bouyancy of the salt water. That might be why some of you fresh water guys are 1-2mph slower? Anyone know how much that affects boats?
ratherwhalering	posted 09-15-2006 01:10 PM ET (US) I'm not convinced you are wrong, Nick. I have a terrible secret I have to admit. Matt's Outrage was running a 4-blade prop when I clocked it at 44 MPH. I think it was aluminum too. I totally forgot about that. With the addition of the 4-inch adjustable set-back brackets and a Stiletto 3-blade 14.25 x 17-inch prop, I think it is totally reasonable to expect 48-50 MPH. I wholeheartedly agree that every boat should have an adjustable bracket/plate. I believe it is easier to mount a jackplate to the transom, and then the engine to the jackplate, than it is to mount the engine straight to the hull. It takes a few more minutes, but sealing the mounting bolts to a lightweight bracket/plate beats maneuvering the engine around on the transom for proper alignment any day of the week. The engine then simply bolts to the brackets/plate, with plenty of room to align the mounting bolts. Anyway, I digress... Honestly, I rarely run my boat at WOT. I do, however, believe that a boat which runs at its maximum RPM at WOT and achieves a respectable MPH will perform better at all other RPM ranges, and cause less stress on the engine. This is my primary interest in WOT RPM/MPH numbers.
george nagy	posted 09-25-2006 02:00 PM ET (US) I just ran my 18' with 1995 140 johnson which I believe has the same lower unit as my v6 150. Propped with a viper ss 15x17 and 3 adults and 3/4 full tank she hit WOT 37.9 mph on gps. Not bad for this setup however I think the tach is disfunctional as it was pegged at over 7k. I should ad that the engine is mounted one hole up.