More kicker questions OR 20' - Moderated Discussion Areas

  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: Whaler Performance
  More kicker questions OR 20'

search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   More kicker questions OR 20'

R I Whaler posted 09-26-2006 09:53 PM ET (US)
Sorry to be asking so many questions as a new guy on the block. Things seemed less complicated with the Montauk.
New boat is 1987 OR 20' with 1987 Evinrude 200.
Based on all of your previous advise, and budget considerations, I've decided to go with a good used 2 stroke kicker with manual everything. Clean and simple.
I notice that almost all brand specs show the 9.9 and 15 h.p. as basically the same motor, same displacement, same weight. So why not go with a 15 h.p.? They seem to be going for close to the same $$ (used on e-bay etc). Isn't more h.p. better especially if it's the same weight? The 2-stroke 9.9 and 15 OMC 1980'2 and 1990's are 70 lbs. That's a lot less than a 4 stroke 8 h.p.
Can you put a high thrust style prop on these?
I saw a picure in C.W. reference of a 2 stroke kicker ('87 evinrude 8 hp) with a "Accu-Mix" oil system. Any info on these? It seems to eliminate the need for a separate kicker gas tank.
I recall certain vintage OMC engines that colud convert from short shaft to long with a spacer on the shaft. Any info on this out there? What vintage? How does it work, are these spacers available?
Last question. Any recommendations on what vintage to look for or stay away from?

DeeVee posted 09-26-2006 11:06 PM ET (US)
RI,
I opted for the 15 instead of the 9.9, mostly out of convenience. A 15 was available at the time I was in the market. I believe a 9.9 would be fine for my 22', but liked the idea of 5 more horsepower.
The 15 is mounted with everything maual, except the steering. I used a kit I bought from West or Boaters World, I can't remember which. There was some fabrication involved, the most serious part of the fabrication being the thought required in the design.
I have Suzuki 15 and don't know if a high thrust prop is available, but I would think a lower pitch prop would be around somewhere. I would not mind having a lower pitch prop to allow the engine to rev a little higher when wide open, but don't see at as a must have.
I bought an Accumixr system on ebay and tried to use it with the Suzuki. The system requires a high capacity fuel pump on OMC engines 15 HP and less. I was unable to get the system to operate properly. The Suzuki pump did not seem to have the capacity to pull the fuel and the oil. The lubrication was there, but the engine would run short of fuel and plain die for lack of fuel. I still have the accumixr if you are interested.
As far as the short shaft/long shaft conversion- I have done this on a six horsepower Johnson before. After it was all said and done, it would be much cheaper to just find a long shaft. The parts required, if I remember correctly are, the exhaust housing extention, long drive shaft and a shift shaft extension. It is a doable project, but not that great of an idea, unless you can find a short shaft really cheap.
I hope this helps,
Doug Vazquez
1989 Outrage 22
R I Whaler posted 09-27-2006 12:15 AM ET (US)
Dee Vee,
Thanks for the reply. You killed many birds with one stone. I might be interested in the Accumixr. Can you tell me more about its components and sequence of operation etc? Can an OMC be retrofitted with a higher capicity pump?
I just won the bid for an evinrude "super- 10" 10 hp long shaft, early 1990's. Appears to be in excellent condition.
Any opinions on this motor?
Thanks,
Mike
Tom W Clark posted 09-27-2006 09:06 AM ET (US)
Mike,
Your intended usage will dictate whether there is any advantage to having a 15 hp kicker on our boat. As you note, most 9.9 and 15s are essentially the same motor. Because most kickers are used for slow speed operation, there is no benefit to having a 15. In general, at 15 will just cost more to buy.
I have owned numerous kicker motors including OMC two stoke 9.9s and 15s. I can tell you with some authority that there is now difference in performance between them...period.
I will also say that the classic OMC 9.9 and 15s make lousy kickers because they are so rough and loud. This stands in contrast to the classic OMC 6 hp which has always been a great slow speed troller. I still own a Johnson 9.9 that I use on a skiff. While loud and rough, it is VERY fast and powerful. I'd put it up against any other manufacturers 15 in a heart beat. It's just not a great kicker.
Only motors designed with special geared down gear cases can use true hi-thrust propellers. Yamaha was the pioneer in this area coming out with such a kicker in the late 1980s.
george nagy posted 09-27-2006 10:47 AM ET (US)
Just make sure to run that kicker routinely!
The Judge posted 09-27-2006 11:47 AM ET (US)
Never ran a 9.9 as a kicker but damn near every sailboat in NJ has one on it. Yes they do run sail props and I have one I will trade for a NICE regular.
The Judge posted 09-27-2006 11:50 AM ET (US)
WAIT...you said super-10. Can you send me a pic? Friend has a 10hp which is an export only engine(aka commercial but not in any of my brochures) and they do NOT have thru-hub exhaust. They have a neat 2nd anti-cav plate(wings) as well to keep them from blowing out I guess in rough seas.
R I Whaler posted 09-27-2006 12:49 PM ET (US)
Judge,
I just e-mailed you some pic of this motor to the address you have listed in your profile. Let me know what you think.
Mike
The Judge posted 09-27-2006 12:55 PM ET (US)
That is the same puppy so prop will not work but one is available. Problem is son, that is a short shaft. If it has not been mailed yet, renig if he advertised it as a long shaft. My bud has a long ashaft that is REAl nice for around $600 in FL.
R I Whaler posted 09-27-2006 01:19 PM ET (US)
It was advertised as a long shaft and he posts a model # of E10RSLM.
Are you sure this is a short shaft? What is a precise physical measurement he could give me to confirm shaft lenght?
I have not sent payment yet.

Thanks,
Mike
JMARTIN posted 09-27-2006 02:14 PM ET (US)
Mike, one more thing to take into consideration is which side to put the kicker on. I moved mine because all the weight: helm, batteries, kicker, skipper, were on the same side of the boat. The down side of the move was with the kicker handle down you can not turn all the way to starboard. Here is my set up with a vintage OMC 15 hp that is NOT loud and rough at all! Discaimer: compared to the incredibly loud, smokey and rough at idle, monster that is next to it.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d137/jmartin-/092506038.jpg
I do like the tie arm, simple, cheap, well sort of, 60 bucks. I guess that is cheap for a boat. John
The Judge posted 09-27-2006 03:00 PM ET (US)
I will take a pic of his LS and you wills ee it is a short.
R I Whaler posted 09-27-2006 04:09 PM ET (US)
Thanks for all of your replies. Judge, thanks for taking the time to take a pic, I look forward to seeing it. In the mean time, can anyone give me the measurement criteria that designates something a short (15in) vs. a long (20)?
This way I can have the seller measure and confirm for both of us what he is (or won't be) selling me.
Thanks,
Mike
george nagy posted 09-27-2006 04:38 PM ET (US)
I think there is a long, short and a sail length shaft offered by omc. I had a 9.9 long which had an extension in the shaft without a duplicate anticavitation plate.
DeeVee posted 09-27-2006 10:57 PM ET (US)
Mike,
The accumixr installation paperwork lists an OMC part number for the high capacity fuel pump and they can be retrofitted, fairly easily I understand.
The only other complication that I can think of is that apparently there were two different mix ratios for the accumixr, 50:1 and 100:1. I am not 100% sure which one I have, but am pretty sure it is a 50:1.
Let me know if you might be interested in it in the future.
Doug Vazquez
kingfish posted 09-27-2006 11:30 PM ET (US)
Why don't you just get a 4-stroke? No oil/fuel considerations.
John
The Judge posted 09-28-2006 10:38 AM ET (US)
His is also a short shaft, no need to take a pic, looks like yours. Post a pic here and get another opinion.
R I Whaler posted 09-28-2006 06:05 PM ET (US)
I'd like to post a picture but I don't have a clue how. Can anyone help me? Or If I email you a pic can you post it. Sorry, very weak computer skills.
As fo why 2 stroke vs. 4, I had two reasons. Budget is one, and weight is another. I am looking for a good used.
Most of this discussion has continued on the GAM under "shaft lenght" thread. Sorry for duplication.

Hop to:

Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.

Author	Topic: More kicker questions OR 20'
R I Whaler	posted 09-26-2006 09:53 PM ET (US) Sorry to be asking so many questions as a new guy on the block. Things seemed less complicated with the Montauk. New boat is 1987 OR 20' with 1987 Evinrude 200. Based on all of your previous advise, and budget considerations, I've decided to go with a good used 2 stroke kicker with manual everything. Clean and simple. I notice that almost all brand specs show the 9.9 and 15 h.p. as basically the same motor, same displacement, same weight. So why not go with a 15 h.p.? They seem to be going for close to the same $$ (used on e-bay etc). Isn't more h.p. better especially if it's the same weight? The 2-stroke 9.9 and 15 OMC 1980'2 and 1990's are 70 lbs. That's a lot less than a 4 stroke 8 h.p. Can you put a high thrust style prop on these? I saw a picure in C.W. reference of a 2 stroke kicker ('87 evinrude 8 hp) with a "Accu-Mix" oil system. Any info on these? It seems to eliminate the need for a separate kicker gas tank. I recall certain vintage OMC engines that colud convert from short shaft to long with a spacer on the shaft. Any info on this out there? What vintage? How does it work, are these spacers available? Last question. Any recommendations on what vintage to look for or stay away from?
DeeVee	posted 09-26-2006 11:06 PM ET (US) RI, I opted for the 15 instead of the 9.9, mostly out of convenience. A 15 was available at the time I was in the market. I believe a 9.9 would be fine for my 22', but liked the idea of 5 more horsepower. The 15 is mounted with everything maual, except the steering. I used a kit I bought from West or Boaters World, I can't remember which. There was some fabrication involved, the most serious part of the fabrication being the thought required in the design. I have Suzuki 15 and don't know if a high thrust prop is available, but I would think a lower pitch prop would be around somewhere. I would not mind having a lower pitch prop to allow the engine to rev a little higher when wide open, but don't see at as a must have. I bought an Accumixr system on ebay and tried to use it with the Suzuki. The system requires a high capacity fuel pump on OMC engines 15 HP and less. I was unable to get the system to operate properly. The Suzuki pump did not seem to have the capacity to pull the fuel and the oil. The lubrication was there, but the engine would run short of fuel and plain die for lack of fuel. I still have the accumixr if you are interested. As far as the short shaft/long shaft conversion- I have done this on a six horsepower Johnson before. After it was all said and done, it would be much cheaper to just find a long shaft. The parts required, if I remember correctly are, the exhaust housing extention, long drive shaft and a shift shaft extension. It is a doable project, but not that great of an idea, unless you can find a short shaft really cheap. I hope this helps, Doug Vazquez 1989 Outrage 22
R I Whaler	posted 09-27-2006 12:15 AM ET (US) Dee Vee, Thanks for the reply. You killed many birds with one stone. I might be interested in the Accumixr. Can you tell me more about its components and sequence of operation etc? Can an OMC be retrofitted with a higher capicity pump? I just won the bid for an evinrude "super- 10" 10 hp long shaft, early 1990's. Appears to be in excellent condition. Any opinions on this motor? Thanks, Mike
Tom W Clark	posted 09-27-2006 09:06 AM ET (US) Mike, Your intended usage will dictate whether there is any advantage to having a 15 hp kicker on our boat. As you note, most 9.9 and 15s are essentially the same motor. Because most kickers are used for slow speed operation, there is no benefit to having a 15. In general, at 15 will just cost more to buy. I have owned numerous kicker motors including OMC two stoke 9.9s and 15s. I can tell you with some authority that there is now difference in performance between them...period. I will also say that the classic OMC 9.9 and 15s make lousy kickers because they are so rough and loud. This stands in contrast to the classic OMC 6 hp which has always been a great slow speed troller. I still own a Johnson 9.9 that I use on a skiff. While loud and rough, it is VERY fast and powerful. I'd put it up against any other manufacturers 15 in a heart beat. It's just not a great kicker. Only motors designed with special geared down gear cases can use true hi-thrust propellers. Yamaha was the pioneer in this area coming out with such a kicker in the late 1980s.
george nagy	posted 09-27-2006 10:47 AM ET (US) Just make sure to run that kicker routinely!
The Judge	posted 09-27-2006 11:47 AM ET (US) Never ran a 9.9 as a kicker but damn near every sailboat in NJ has one on it. Yes they do run sail props and I have one I will trade for a NICE regular.
The Judge	posted 09-27-2006 11:50 AM ET (US) WAIT...you said super-10. Can you send me a pic? Friend has a 10hp which is an export only engine(aka commercial but not in any of my brochures) and they do NOT have thru-hub exhaust. They have a neat 2nd anti-cav plate(wings) as well to keep them from blowing out I guess in rough seas.
R I Whaler	posted 09-27-2006 12:49 PM ET (US) Judge, I just e-mailed you some pic of this motor to the address you have listed in your profile. Let me know what you think. Mike
The Judge	posted 09-27-2006 12:55 PM ET (US) That is the same puppy so prop will not work but one is available. Problem is son, that is a short shaft. If it has not been mailed yet, renig if he advertised it as a long shaft. My bud has a long ashaft that is REAl nice for around $600 in FL.
R I Whaler	posted 09-27-2006 01:19 PM ET (US) It was advertised as a long shaft and he posts a model # of E10RSLM. Are you sure this is a short shaft? What is a precise physical measurement he could give me to confirm shaft lenght? I have not sent payment yet. Thanks, Mike
JMARTIN	posted 09-27-2006 02:14 PM ET (US) Mike, one more thing to take into consideration is which side to put the kicker on. I moved mine because all the weight: helm, batteries, kicker, skipper, were on the same side of the boat. The down side of the move was with the kicker handle down you can not turn all the way to starboard. Here is my set up with a vintage OMC 15 hp that is NOT loud and rough at all! Discaimer: compared to the incredibly loud, smokey and rough at idle, monster that is next to it. http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d137/jmartin-/092506038.jpg I do like the tie arm, simple, cheap, well sort of, 60 bucks. I guess that is cheap for a boat. John
The Judge	posted 09-27-2006 03:00 PM ET (US) I will take a pic of his LS and you wills ee it is a short.
R I Whaler	posted 09-27-2006 04:09 PM ET (US) Thanks for all of your replies. Judge, thanks for taking the time to take a pic, I look forward to seeing it. In the mean time, can anyone give me the measurement criteria that designates something a short (15in) vs. a long (20)? This way I can have the seller measure and confirm for both of us what he is (or won't be) selling me. Thanks, Mike
george nagy	posted 09-27-2006 04:38 PM ET (US) I think there is a long, short and a sail length shaft offered by omc. I had a 9.9 long which had an extension in the shaft without a duplicate anticavitation plate.
DeeVee	posted 09-27-2006 10:57 PM ET (US) Mike, The accumixr installation paperwork lists an OMC part number for the high capacity fuel pump and they can be retrofitted, fairly easily I understand. The only other complication that I can think of is that apparently there were two different mix ratios for the accumixr, 50:1 and 100:1. I am not 100% sure which one I have, but am pretty sure it is a 50:1. Let me know if you might be interested in it in the future. Doug Vazquez
kingfish	posted 09-27-2006 11:30 PM ET (US) Why don't you just get a 4-stroke? No oil/fuel considerations. John
The Judge	posted 09-28-2006 10:38 AM ET (US) His is also a short shaft, no need to take a pic, looks like yours. Post a pic here and get another opinion.
R I Whaler	posted 09-28-2006 06:05 PM ET (US) I'd like to post a picture but I don't have a clue how. Can anyone help me? Or If I email you a pic can you post it. Sorry, very weak computer skills. As fo why 2 stroke vs. 4, I had two reasons. Budget is one, and weight is another. I am looking for a good used. Most of this discussion has continued on the GAM under "shaft lenght" thread. Sorry for duplication.