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OUTRAGE 18: Honda BF 150: I've Decided
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ContinuousWave Whaler Moderated Discussion Areas
ContinuousWave: Whaler Performance
OUTRAGE 18: Honda BF 150: I've Decided
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| Author | Topic: OUTRAGE 18: Honda BF 150: I've Decided |
| djd35de |
posted 11-24-2006 05:18 PM ET (US)  
I've been torn between the Honda and the Suzuki but thats all resolved.I've gone through too many hassles with the price gouging in Sunny San Diego. and the hassle of shipping to a dealer from back east just too many hoops to jump through.I like the suzuki because of the lower gear ratio,bigger prop,and more cubes maybe it has better torque at lower end not sure.Things i like about the Honda is VTEC,very well respected name and have never heard a complaint about there engines yet.Everbody seems to be satisfied with there Honda.Plus i talked to a guy named Eric that has ben recommended highly and stepped up and is giving me a fair deal.Going Tuesday of next week leave my boat.I'll post the performance after,Can anybody tell me the best prop for this boat.going for a stainless honda prop. I want a good prop for all around but would be willing to sacrafice some top end for better low end performance as its a fishing boat,trolling,cruising.Ian sure it will be fast enough either way. thanks as always in advance David |
| Tonym |
posted 11-24-2006 05:43 PM ET (US)
Dave, If you bought it from Specialty Marine in Oxnard you probably got a very good deal. I bought my Honda 130 HP there and overall it’s a good motor but I wish I spent the extra money and had gone with the 150hp. I am going thru the same problem right now trying to figure out what is the best prop for my rig. I’ve got a very heavy boat and it is a little under powered. I am running a 13.75X 13 aluminum Solas that came with the engine. I just had it re worked to a 16 pitch to see if that helps my cruse speed and rpms. One suggestion, if you did buy it from Eric in Oxnard, Leave at midnight and park in his lot. If you are lucky enough to get there early he can wake you up when he gets in. The only down side for doing business up there is the traffic is a killer from Orange county almost all the way to Oxnard. Good luck, Tonym |
| djd35de |
posted 11-24-2006 06:41 PM ET (US)
Yea tony its from Eric ,I was thinking of leaving at 3:am maybe i should leave before.I do think its a fair deal and iam going to have him move the batteries up front to the center console to maybe off set the weight issue.Hey Tony i thought you have a 18ft raider,aren'nt those rated at 200 HP as the glass is way thicker.Plus i've heard that the 130 is a bit heavy for there rated output. but i bet is runs smooth and you have'nt had any issues with the engine right? It was your recommendation and a couple of others that helped me make my choice and the fact that i could'nt get any feed back on anybody having repowered a 18ft outrage with the DF150 so thats what pushed me off the fence. David |
| Perry |
posted 11-24-2006 08:35 PM ET (US)
I think you are going to be very pleased with the new Honda; quiet, fuel efficient and reliable. Make sure you have Eric mount the motor one hole up. If you are set on a Honda stainless prop, the 3 blade Powertech OFS (offshore) is made for Honda by Powertech. I run one on my motor and it provides great all around performance with good grip in rough seas. A 15.25 X 18 should be a good size for you. The Honda part # is 58333-ZY3-A18CL. Another good choice would be the Honda stainless 4 blade "Turbo" in 14.25 X 17. That part # is 58234-ZY3-A17H. It will give you a better hole-shot but a little slower top end. The Stiletto Advantage II is also a good prop at a good price. It's not made by Honda but it is relatively inexpensive and a performs well. |
| djd35de |
posted 11-24-2006 09:10 PM ET (US)
thank you perry I'll pass on the info to Eric,I seems lots of people are worried about top speed,and i to like speed but i think its most important to have an engine prop thats going to work best where you operate the engine most.Iam sure as long as the rpms are in th right range 5500-6000 it will be plenty fast. Heck its a fishing boat.I kind of like the idea of a 4 blade but he told me it adss lots of resistance in the water.I don't know .Hopefully i can drop it off next week. I really wanted a Suzuki but like i said before no info on somebody else doing the repower with the DF150 and too high of a price down here in San diego. so suzuki loses out David |
| djd35de |
posted 11-24-2006 09:16 PM ET (US)
Perry,Is your boat a classic 18ft outrage? how does it handle and do you run a hydrfoil or trim tabs? how about a picture of your boat. david |
| Perry |
posted 11-24-2006 09:47 PM ET (US)
No, it's not a classic Outrage, it's a 190 Outrage. It is similar in size and it handles well with the Honda. I am not a big believer in hydofoils but trim tabs may be something I look into buying for my boat some day. I think if you transfer your batteries into the console you won't need a hydrofoil or tabs. I wouldn't rule out a 4 blade prop; it provides better acceleration and grip in rough seas and the resistance (though the water) he is talking about is what reduces a boat's top speed which you say is't important to you. Eric knows what props perform good on these motors, I've bee in contact with him before and he agrees that the Powertech works well. Here is a picture of my boat: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/perrycl/beachwhaler1.jpg |
| djd35de |
posted 11-24-2006 10:03 PM ET (US)
Wow shes a beauty,Love that Honda hanging out the back.What year is your boat and did'nt it have a mercury engine new? Iam sure if they came with hondas from the factory we would'nt be talking repowers so often. Love that boat Perry.I'll let Eric know about the props you suggested thanks for all the info. David |
| Riverwhaler |
posted 11-24-2006 10:10 PM ET (US)
Dave I think you have the best of both worlds. I have Nantucket and Honda 150. Couldn't be happier.. Dealer sold me a 4 blade Mercury Vensura prop and have had it on and off several times but after a bunch of hours with the boat in lots of varied situations I am getting a feel for what it can feel like and this fall it really did impress with its performance, seems to put the bow down into the chop instead of beating around on top. Give a Mercury 4 blade offshore prop a try, seems to settle the boat down and you can tilt the motor out further without cavatation. Not sure I am using the proper terminology but that is what it feels like. Anyway enjoy the boat and motor, they are a great combination. Take your time and get to know what your boat feels like in different situations. |
| Tonym |
posted 11-24-2006 10:29 PM ET (US)
Dave, what I found was that 2 am in the morning is 5 or 6 am in LA. That’s rush hour! Midnight will get you through La by 3-4 AM which has very little traffic. To me rush hour pulling a boat with a f350 dully was very uncomfortable. Better to get there 2 hours early than 3 hours late. Eric has some very strong ideas about proper propping, you may want to compare them to some of the ideas you can glean from this site and make your own decision in the end. It has been my experience with eric that he is very honest and outspoke but he might not fully understand your type of boating/fishing. When you get it hooked up let me know and we can get out on the water and check each others speed /performance #. Stay in touch. Tonym |
| djd35de |
posted 11-25-2006 12:16 AM ET (US)
Thanks Tony,Perry and riverwhaler for the info,Its great to know there's people to help with great knowledge of what your trying to do.Its funny were like a big family all pulling together for a common cause.Keep it coming if you have anymore ideas. Thanks again David |
| djd35de |
posted 11-25-2006 12:19 AM ET (US)
And Tony when I get it back well check our boats out. [Deleted some information about local fishing conditions; please use a website that specializes in collecting information about local fishing conditions to inquire about fishing conditions in your location--jimh.] david |
| Tonym |
posted 11-25-2006 09:23 AM ET (US)
Dave, that sounds great. My business is starting to slow down so come late December through march I should have plenty of time on my hands. Let's hook up and head out when you get your rig squared away. Good Luck, Tonym |
| jimh |
posted 11-25-2006 03:58 PM ET (US)
Honda outboards have a great reputation. There are very few complaints from actual owners of Honda outboards about them. Most of the stuff I've seen complaining about Honda outboards consists of second-hand or third-hand accounts by others who don't own them. Let us know how the OUTRAGE 18 performs with the new motor. |
| djd35de |
posted 11-26-2006 01:46 AM ET (US)
Well thanks to all here with the responses,Its kind of funny a couple of my friends and i went fishing today bell to bell and get home late real tired.there's a message about someone buying my Yamaha i call and this person lives about 10 minutes away.He comes over and buys it tonight 1200.00 i jsut have to help remove it tomarrow.Does'nt even want the gauges just the engine.So no backing out now.It happened so easy maybe i sold it too cheap,but oh well i like to sell stuff quick.maybe it will be done by next week.I'll keep you guys posted.On another note about that 4 blade prop i'd like a prop that plains quick and has good lift of the back of the boat.RiverWhaler whats your top speed with that prop?If its over 45 thats good enough for me as i want the extra lift and be able to plain at the lowest speed possible.Thanks David |
| djd35de |
posted 11-27-2006 08:58 PM ET (US)
Well guys I made the long trip north to Specialty Marine in Oxnard.It was a long trip about 13 hours round trip.I met the owner and he seems real professional.Gave me a few ideas about cleaning up the console with some star board and also will use star board to help in bracing the engine mounting. Iam sure he's going to do a fine install and hopefully i'll have my beast back by saturday.Otherwise i might have to wait another week to pick it up.Iam really leaning towards that 4 Blade prop as it sounds like it gives the type of performance for my type of boating.But were're going to try hopefully just 2 or 3 props and decide as time is a real factor in making this long trip.My poor 4runner had a tuff haul up those hills.Traffic in La really is stressful, just hoping it will be all worth it in the end. David |
| Tonym |
posted 11-27-2006 10:13 PM ET (US)
Dave, I’m glad to see you made it there and back in one piece. The hard part for me was just getting the time to go. I plan on bringing my Raider back up in January for servicing. Let me know what you decide on for your prop. I’m still struggling trying to figure out whats best for my rig. The Owners manual for the 130hp states that normal WOT is between 5000 and 6000 RPM’s. Eric’s opinion is it MUST be propped to reach 6000 RPM’s. Not that I necessarily Doubt Eric but why would they state that in the owners manual If it was critical to run 6000 WOT. The 2001 or 2002 manual also shows my engine to develops 130 HP at 5500 RPM. So I’m still trying to get my mind around this. Let us know what you end up doing. Good Luck, Tonym |
| jimh |
posted 11-28-2006 12:30 AM ET (US)
Advice recommending selection of a propeller which will allow the engine to reach the very high end of its recommended engine speed range is good advice. The engine will be happier with such a propeller. Typically if you run a taller propeller and drop the engine speed, you may get slightly better fuel mileage (as compared to using a smaller pitch propeller and running the engine a little faster). However, my experience is that running the engine so that it can reach its maximum rated speed really gives the best overall results. |
| djd35de |
posted 11-28-2006 01:11 AM ET (US)
thanks Tony,Long haul anyways i trust Eric and i do know that if your not in the proper range too low rpms the engine will lug,too high rpms could damage engine plus will use more fuel.I also know that the 150 was rated at 150 at 5500rpms but revs to 6000 so has extra poneis. |
| Peter |
posted 11-28-2006 07:46 AM ET (US)
Just because a motor rated for 150 HP at 5500 RPM can turn to 6000 RPM does not mean that motor makes more HP at 6000 RPM than it does at its rated 5500 RPM. All motors have power curves (HP output versus engine speed). Power curves for motors are not straight inclined lines, particularly in the specified WOT range (5000 to 6000 RPM in the case of the Honda 150). A couple of example power curves for both 2-stroke and 4-stroke outboards are shown in the article found here members.iinet.net.au/~pauldawson/gen/Iame24-4strokes.pdf . As you can see from the curves, there is a decline in HP output after reaching the rated HP at 5000 RPM in the case of the 90 HP 2-stroke outboard which is rated for 90 HP at 5000 RPM and after 5500 RPM in the case of the 90 HP 4-stroke which is rated for 90 HP at 5500 RPM. Chances are that the Honda 150 follows a power curve just like what you see in these graphics such that the HP output at 6000 RPM is slightly less than it is at its rated 5500 RPM. |
| djd35de |
posted 11-28-2006 12:34 PM ET (US)
Peter ,on the dyno test they have the stated rating at 5500 but the engine (this engine)as they say keeps making more approx 162-164 so in this case only is what i mean.I realize not all work that way.They could fall after stated rating or coulld result in engine damage(valve float,rod breaking etc.......... The way i read it this is what honda says. thanks for all the help. David |
| Tom W Clark |
posted 11-28-2006 12:48 PM ET (US)
David, I do not understand what you have just written, but Peter is right. More RPM does NOT necessarily mean more horsepower. All outboards are rated for their horsepower in the middle of the WOT ranges. There is nothing remarkable about the Honda in this regard. |
| Perry |
posted 11-28-2006 01:14 PM ET (US)
According to a post on the Hull Truth that I saw, Eric at Specialty Marine put a BF150 on a dynometer and it's horsepower at 5500 RPM was 150. If I remember correctly, its horsepower continued to climp to 162 at 6000 RPM. I did not see the dyno graph but I don't discount it either. I have also heard that the Yamaha F150 produces 163 HP at the prop. |
| Peter |
posted 11-28-2006 01:17 PM ET (US)
Where can I find this dyno test? Who is "they"? Does Honda say this motor makes more than 150 HP? Is there a published power curve for this motor where we can see that it defies the typical drop off after the rated HP? Although I think the methods in the PowerBoat Reports 150 HP Shootout has some flaws, the Honda BF 150 came in last place for top speed. This isn't terribly surprising because the Honda 150 has the smallest displacement (2.35L) of any naturally aspirated 150 HP rated motor, 2 or 4-stroke, that PBR tested (Yamaha F150-2.67L, Suzuki DF150-2.87L, Evinrude E-TEC 150-2.59L, Mercury Optimax 150-2.51L).
|
| Perry |
posted 11-28-2006 02:18 PM ET (US)
I found the post in question from that other web site. I hope it's ok to quote Eric from Specialty Marine:
quote: His user name is Honda Dude. He is a stand-up guy who provides tons of technical advice and tips to Honda owners on The Hull Truth and also offers free advice over the phone. I have no reason to believe he is lying about the dyno test but believe what you like. |
| Peter |
posted 11-28-2006 03:52 PM ET (US)
If a guy who calls himself "the Honda Dude" on a website says its so, then of course it must be so. Ahh the Internet.....what a wonderful place. ;) |
| djd35de |
posted 11-28-2006 06:01 PM ET (US)
Sorry about the confusion sometimes i don't look up after typing.Thats what i meant that at 6000 rpms the HP goes to about 162-164 which is over the rated 150 .So its a bit under rated thats all i meant. It would be nice to see a bigger block VTEC more cubes and they could just rate that one at 2500 rpms and call it a 150 LOL. The main reason iam going with the Honda is i think iam geting a fair deal and Honda has a great reputation. I work on cars for a living and if i had to make a living on hondas to repair i would'nt have much work.I mostly work on Fords,Chevys,Chrysler ETC...I hate to say this but i feel that domestic products just can't match the proven dependable of Honda just no contest as far as my opinion.I not trying to start a war but when iam out on the ocean i want (need)that engine to start. If any of you people ever look at consumer reports just look at honda.Their always rated best buy in their respected class.Hard to argue the facts.Thats why i never considered a MERCURY i just can't help but think of ford.I drive an old BMW this car has like 223000 miles.Just had to change the waterpump,It was original i just can't Bitch about that.I've never owned a ford either or chevy could've bought a new ford truck with what i paid for a used 4runner,Its the dependability that you fall in love with.This is just my experience and opinion .Plus resale is also better even with high miles or high hours in this case. David |
| djd35de |
posted 11-28-2006 06:28 PM ET (US)
Perry,I was wondering those propS you recomended did you happen to notice that my boat is a 87 18ft outrage your is a bit newer and heavier.Would those those props still be good for my boat and whats the deal about the stiletto advantage 2.Is this a 3 blade or 4 and if i wanted one what size #s would be good.I'l like to pick up my boat this week and he does'nt stock 4 blade props. thanks for all your help to all David |
| Perry |
posted 11-28-2006 07:38 PM ET (US)
David, just because he doesn't stock a Honda 4 blade prop doesn't mean he can't order one. The props I mentioned should work on your boat but you never really know until you try. It's hard to get the perfect prop on the first try. It's even difficult to get it right after trying 2 or 3 props. Ask Eric what he has in stock, like the 3 blade Powertech OFS I mentioned for example, and see if he has others he can loan you to try. The Stiletto Advantage II is a 3 blade prop but Stiletto also makes a 4 blade prop too; they are good props at a great price. Tom Clark is very knowlegable about these props in particular as well as the 18 Outrage. If he doesn't respond again to this thread, you might want to e-mail him. He can give you better advice about which size Stiletto will work on your boat and can get these Stiletto's at very good price. |
| jimh |
posted 11-28-2006 08:49 PM ET (US)
Perhaps someone will join this discussion and give us a first-hand account of their measurement of the shaft horsepower of a Honda BF150. But until that happens, citations of second-hand reports available out in cyberspace--even by authorities with an on-line persona such as "Honda dude"--don't really measure up to the information-content standards which are preferred here. What gets passed around on other websites is not really the focus of any discussion on CONTINUOUSWAVE. If you want to discuss something which is under discussion on another website, please go visit that website and join their discussion. Don't bring it up here. |
| Perry |
posted 11-28-2006 09:26 PM ET (US)
djd35de made reference to the dyno test and then Peter asked:
quote: And I answered the question for him. I guess I should have just kept out of the discussion about the claimed dyno report of a BF150. |
| djd35de |
posted 11-28-2006 09:35 PM ET (US)
Thanks Perry,He ordered the 4 blade turbo prop in the size you recommended.Iam sure its a good base line.If it does'nt work out i'll just have to use one that he has in stock.Its always a good thing when some else has learned something and is willing to share that valueble information with people.Helps save time and money,i justt know i don't have hundreds of extra dollors to buy lots of different props.Maybe unrealistic i was hoping to nail it with the first try. Its still possible thats the prop i've chosen and maybe try one other. People here on this site have been a great help and iam very thankful.And yes Jim it would be great if someone thats repowered with a honda 150 on a classic 18 would chime in and share his or her thoughts.As always thanks for everything. David |
| jimh |
posted 11-28-2006 10:39 PM ET (US)
If it is true that "Honda claims their 150 (rated at 5,500rpm) actually produces 10 (more) hp at 6,000..." then it would be much more convincing to just have a hyperlink to a source where HONDA actually says that. If Honda says it, they must be saying it somewhere. So a link to wherever it is that this statement is made by Honda would be a terrific boost to the notion that the BF150 produces 164-Hp according to Honda, as opposed to the notion that somewhere in cyberspace there is a website where some guy says that Honda says that their BF150 makes 164-HP. |
| BlackMax |
posted 11-29-2006 12:46 AM ET (US)
Sometimes companies brag about extra HP, sometimes not, especially with recreational engines, where HP could be more or LESS. Take Mercury, almost every one knows the famous 2 stroke 90, still in production, is about a 100HP engine, but Mercury never announced it. The 2.5 liter 200's are also over 200, and so are the 3.0 liter 225's Also never talked about. Then there were the in-line 6's. But in the performance/racing division, Mercury even published a graph showing the 250XS Opti at 264 HP and the new 300 Opti at 310HP. Seems to make sense for that particular market. Evinrude claims the 200HO is 220 HP (but it got blown away on acceleration by the standard 200 Opti and 200 Yammie Vmax according to a B&WB shootout!) Go figure. I would think that Honda and Yammie's insider claims on their 150's could be accurate, just not published. |
| Peter |
posted 11-29-2006 08:28 AM ET (US)
The "insider" notion that the 2.7L Yamaha F150 makes 160 HP is actually backed up by the comparative HP curves published on page 6 of the 2007 Evinrude brochure. But the Yamaha F150 is not the subject of the discussion in this thread nor is a 200 HP shootout. If what the Honda Dude says is true about the HP curve still climbing after 5500 RPM, and after all he is the HONDA DUDE, then my suggestion for propping the Honda 150 is to select a propeller that will allow it to turn to at least 5800 RPM when the 18 Outrage is moderately to heavily loaded based on your usage. That way you will be getting the most out of the Honda. What that means is of of a choice of a high and low pitch propeller, pick the lower pitch propeller which will also provide a better holeshot response. I'm of the opinion that 4-blade propeller is absolutely unnecessary for an 18 Outrage. From the accounts given here, the best propeller bang for the buck seems to be the 3-blade Stiletto, probably in the 17 inch pitch size for this application. |
| jimh |
posted 11-29-2006 09:14 AM ET (US)
OK--Here is the whole truth, right from HONDA, and not a bunch of third hand internet chat gobbledygook.
SOURCE: http://www.honda-marine.com/pdfs/BF150_advantage.pdf (Thanks to a shy reader for pointing this out for me.) Now this is what I mean by quality information. You can keep all that dock talk on the dock. If somebody's got horsepower, let's see their graph. |
| jimh |
posted 11-29-2006 09:43 AM ET (US)
Evinrude lists the engine power of their 225 H.O. right on the emission sticker. This measurement is from the Family Emissions Limit (FEL) testing for EPA compliance. The power is listed in kilowatts: 225 H.O. = 179.1 kW This converts to horsepower 179.1 kW x 1.341 = 240.2 HP and that is the whole truth about the E-TEC 225 H.O. horsepower. We don't need to cite some statement in cyberspace by some guy name AssCrackerAss to back it up--even if the fellow is a recognized authority on some other internet discussion forums. Comparative results in magazine testing show how fast a boat goes, not how much horsepower the engines have. How fast a boat goes depends on many factors, and the horsepower of the engine is only one of those. It is almost endemic that in these boat tests the engines use different propellers, so this makes any differences in boat speed extremely difficult to link to differences in engine horsepower. |
| djd35de |
posted 11-29-2006 09:45 AM ET (US)
Thanks Peter for the info,I read that a couple of guys are using a 4 blade prop with good results.But iam going to try both and will also try a 17 pitch as you've stated.Also thanks to you Jim i believe thats where i read aBOUT THE DYNO TEST HONDA MARINE .COM.MJUST COULD'NT REMEMBER. DAVID |
| Peter |
posted 11-29-2006 09:53 AM ET (US)
That's more like it. The comparison to the BF135 really shows the benefit of the V-TEC system. |
| Perry |
posted 11-29-2006 12:17 PM ET (US)
You guys were so sceptical about this "Honda Dude" guy LOL.
quote: Peter, if it was an Evinrude person who made the same claim on the internet about a 150 HP ETEC, I bet you would have taken it as gospel. I find it ironic that only BlackMax thought the dyno claim could be valid. |
| Peter |
posted 11-29-2006 12:43 PM ET (US)
Well, er...yes Perry I don't have a problem accepting such a statement but only because I already know its corroborated by BRP's public representation of such fact, i.e., the publication of a torque and HP curve in its 2007 Evinrude brochure where it shows the E-TEC 150 making 160 HP or more between 4500 and 5750 RPM. I appologize for contaminating a Honda thread with some additional detailed Evinrude facts but since we're probing the veracity of Internet statements in addition to finding the right prop for DJD, just wanted to add that I'm not sure that Jim's statement is the Whole Truth about the Evinrude 225 HO unless it is further qualified to a particular model year. The 2006 and 2007 EPA certification data for Evinrude has the power output for the 225HO stated as 184.56 KW which works out to 247 HP. The 2005 certification data for the 225HO shows 178.97 KW which works out to 240 HP. |
| Perry |
posted 11-29-2006 01:09 PM ET (US)
djd35de, as you may know, 4 stroke motors lack the low end torque of their 2 stroke counterparts. That is where a 4 blade props helps out. They usually provide a better hole shot and acceleration than a 3 blade prop. Although a 18 Outrage might not need all that blade surface area with a 150 HP 2 stroke, it might be a good match with your Honda 4 stroke. It sure was with mine. |
| djd35de |
posted 11-29-2006 03:56 PM ET (US)
Thanks Perry thats why iam going to try that prop first.It had to be orderd should be in friday.Perry was your engine able to rev to 6000 rpms?If so iam sure its going to work for my application,hopefully. thanks and if you have anymore ideas let me know. David |
| jimh |
posted 11-29-2006 07:38 PM ET (US)
Perry writes:
quote: There is really no irony in that situation at all. BlackMax was expressing his willingness to accept hearsay as gospel truth. This is precisely what he often asks his readers to do. :-) |
| Perry |
posted 11-29-2006 07:56 PM ET (US)
jimh, good point. David, with a 14.25 X 17 pitch 4 blade prop I am able to hit 5900 RPM at WOT and 44.5 MPH. This is with the motor trimmed way out and 50 gallons of gas. Remember that my hull weighs over 500 lbs more than yours does. |
| jimh |
posted 11-29-2006 08:47 PM ET (US)
Sorry to contaiminate a discussion of a Honda motor with more information about Evinrude and Yamaha motors, but in reply to some comments introduced about these engines here is the cited graph of horsepower from the 2007 Evinrude Brochure:
And again, sorry to continue off-track with this information about another E-TEC, the 225 H.O. version from 2005, but here is an image of the manufacturer's sticker which clearly shows the power rating in kW:
One of the reasons these discussions keep getting off-track is because they are frequently derailed by introduction of new topics not related to the original discussion. What often results from these derailments is a train wreck. But in any event, there is some reasonable evidence of the claims made for the E-TEC engines and Honda engines. It is clear from these that the E-TEC, Yamaha, and Honda motors labeled as "150-HP" are able to produce in excess of 160-HP according to data directly from manufacturers. |
| djd35de |
posted 11-29-2006 09:07 PM ET (US)
Perry i think it will work as i have a 22 gallon bait tank thats about 200lbs full.Most of the time iam with 3 200lbs guys on the boat and gear,gas should be close.If not maybe an 18 pitch would be perfect.Hopefully i'll get to test it friday or saturday and see. David |
| Peter |
posted 11-29-2006 09:27 PM ET (US)
With that extra 0.13 KW, that must have been the very rare 225 HO+ for 2005. ;) |
| Tom W Clark |
posted 11-29-2006 11:57 PM ET (US)
Uh, David? Perhaps you could start a new thread strictly about the propeller recommendations for your new motor. This one is off track but interesting. It seems the Honda BF150, the Yamaha F150 and the E-Tec 150 are all outstandingly powerful motors putting out far more than their nominal ratings. The Honda and Yamaha at 160 HP and the E-Tec at 165-170 HP. So, where are those Suzuki and Mercury graphs and placards? Actually, motor developing more than their ratings is nothing new, but according to Jim, the ICOMIA 28-83 standard does not allow this. I have always understood the standard to allow a 10 percent +/- for rated horsepower. Does this discussion clarify that at all? How about the old "powerhead rated" vs. "prop shaft rated" argument? I think those terms have been remarkably abused over the years. Having owned both a powerhead rated Johnson 150 (1983) and a prop shaft rated Johnson 150 (1990) of the same design and having run them both on the exact same boat I can tell you the power output of those two motors was exactly the same, and I'm guessing it was a lot more than 150 HP. |
| djd35de |
posted 11-30-2006 12:45 AM ET (US)
Tom Clark,Given the info i've provided what size,pitch ,type of prop would you recommend.I figure the more info the better off iam.Plus i've heard your a prop expert.I fish in offshore conditions and am more concerned with lower end performance then just flat out top speed.Though i like fast also but lets face it if your fishing most of the time its not wide open trottle.Hoprfully a prop to give good stern lift or lower the bow in the chop.A couple of people have had good results with 4 blade,whats your take please? thanks David [Re-write for Tom. See below--jimh.] Tom Clark--Given the information I've provided, what size, pitch, and type of propeller would you recommend? I figure the more information I get, the better off I am. Plus, I've heard you're a prop expert. I fish in offshore conditions, and I am more concerned with low-end performance than just flat out top speed--although I like fast, too. But let's face it: if you are fishing most of the time, it is not at wide open throttle. I'd like a propeller to give good stern lift or lower the bow in the chop. A couple of people have had good results with four-blade propellers. What is your take, please? Thanks David |
| Tom W Clark |
posted 11-30-2006 01:28 AM ET (US)
David, I am happy to help you but please do two things for me first, OK? 1 -- Start a new thread tilted something like: "Propeller Recommendations for Honda BF 150 on Outrage 18" and include the pertinent information. Let's leave the rest of this "stuff" here. 2 -- Proof read and spell check what you type before hitting the Reply button. My eyes are not what they once were and it makes it a lot easier for me to read what is being "said". A period at the end of a sentence tells me the sentence is over. A single space between sentences makes that clearer. A capital letter at the beginning of the next sentence helps me see that a new thought is beginning. I would really appreciate it. I think others would too. Thanks. |
| jimh |
posted 11-30-2006 08:19 AM ET (US)
Here is a better look at the E-TEC versus Yamaha 150-HP graph. This one is from the Evinrude Product Information Guide 2007. It is easier to see the differences:
It also shows how the horsepower curves tend to be different between a two-stroke and a four-stroke motor. It looks like the four-stroke motor curves tend to keep climbing in horsepower with increased engine speed. |
| jimh |
posted 11-30-2006 08:47 AM ET (US)
Here is a graph I made that shows the engine horsepower as a function of the engine speed for the E-TEC, Yamaha, and Honda 150-HP motors. The data is extrapolated from the other graphs by a sharp-eyed reader (Peter). This graph just combines all three onto a single plot.
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| prj |
posted 11-30-2006 09:32 AM ET (US)
The Evinrude published graphs state that the 150 HP E-TEC puts out about 165 HP at a modest 4500 RPM. This strikes me as fairly remarkable in both its output and the engine speed at which its produced. |
| prj |
posted 11-30-2006 09:40 AM ET (US)
I just searched back for a repower with a 150 HP E-TEC and found ratherwhalering's article on mfryier's Outrage - 18. I see his boat achieves 47.5 or 6 MPH at WOT, which is a fine number on its own merit. I'm wondering what single engine would propel this boat to the oft-cited 50 MPH if 160 HP falls somewhat short. Perhaps you just need to toss an inordinantly tall wheel on it to go 50? |
| djd35de |
posted 11-30-2006 10:02 AM ET (US)
Well the honda does'nt look like a good performer,yet people that have repowered with seem pleased.That ETEC iam sure is a sweet engine but i've also heard of quite a few complaints and poor dealer service.Heck they could'nt even do any diagnosis of the complaint.I dont think that its even a fair comparison the 2 stroke fires every time at TDC.I've seen too many problem with american built engines.Imean all sorts,but time will tell.Guys I'd really just like more feedback about different (PROPS FOR MY SET UP) thats what iam really after!! the real reason i chose Honda is like i stated before,They're reliable,smooth,good on gas,quiet,and hopefully i'll never have to repower again in my lifetime if it comes to that. thanks for all the input David |
| jimh |
posted 11-30-2006 12:39 PM ET (US)
I'd take the graphs with a grain of salt, but they do show one interesting thing with regard to the HONDA. I'd say it is definite that you want the propeller pitch chosen to let the engine wind up to 6,000-RPM. This is going to be most significant with the Honda than, say, the E-TEC. The Honda has many attributes not shown on the graph, and I am sure it will be a good engine for your application. There is a great happiness in being comfortable with the dealer and the deal, and this can be more important than the curve of the engine's horsepower. |
| djd35de |
posted 11-30-2006 02:39 PM ET (US)
Well said JIM.I started a new tread hoping for more in put about the prop selection. Thats what well help the most. Thanks DJd35de@cox.net |
| tmann45 |
posted 02-11-2007 02:31 PM ET (US)
Could it be that the HP curves show HP at the engine and that is why they are higher that the advertised HP which now has to be at the prop shaft? Or did I miss that in the discussion? |
| andygere |
posted 02-11-2007 04:08 PM ET (US)
Considering that the E-TEC 150 is build on the same platform as the E-TEC 200, it's not surprising that it produces more than 150 hp. It's a 2.6 liter 60 degree V6, so I don't think the performance charts are exaggerated. Also note that there are 2 different E-TEC 150 models, the 150 and the 150 H.O. The H.O. is the hot bass boat motor, and would be expected to outperform the standard 150. |
| Yiddil |
posted 02-11-2007 04:47 PM ET (US)
Jim, THose graphs and photos really hit the nail on the head! and quite frankly Im glad it just closed down the naysayers and people throwing other issues into the mix. Clearly the graphs prove ther point conclusively. All I ask for is a few moments of lucidity:)) |
| jimh |
posted 02-11-2007 05:48 PM ET (US)
[Closed thread and the related discussion on this same motor/boat/propeller decision as the originator indicated he wanted replies via email.] |
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