posted 02-15-2007 01:37 PM ET (US)        

"You know, one of the great things about our Whalers is their incredible positive floatation. You may lose a modest amount of top end, but if you like that motor but feel that the boat rides too low aft, just trim her up by adding a hundred pounds or more of lead (ingots or salmon weights) in the anchor locker forward. That'll bring your bow down and make her less sluggish getting up on plane.
I'm surprised that this solution is rarely discussed here, especially by folks interested in the heavier motors. I've done this in my 1988 Outrage 18--brought the two batteries up into the console and added a +/-70 lbs of salmon weights in a bucket on the starboard side of the cooler seat forward of the console, to offset the weight of my Yamaha 115 four stroke and the 8 hp Yamaha kicker I've got mounted portside, along with the kicker's 6-gallon gas tank in the splash well. My boat trims almost level at rest, and she jumps right up onto plane in a matter of a couple of seconds.

By the way, the only experience I've had with Honda outboards is with CW member Perry's sweet Outrage/Nantucket 190/140 Honda four stroke...that rig roars, let me tell you, and the motor is very slick indeed. I'd buy one in a sweet second."
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Isn't this a valid solution for you guys who like to mount real big motors on your 13s, 15s, 16s, Montuaks, or who want to mount twins on your OR 18s, etc ?

posted 02-15-2007 02:37 PM ET (US)            

From time to time, vessels without trim-tabs will require the captain to order passengers from one side of the boat to another to balance trim in a heavy crosswind, or direct passengers to the bow of the boat from time to time to achieve plane.

However, this is normally understood to be a "temporary" solution to an occasional problem.

For a more frequent, though not permanent problem with planing or trim, the operator should try to be as efficient as possible in utilizing needed/necessary items aboard to acheive the desired trim characteristics. For instance, placing batteries in the console, or even moving lead downrigger weights or a loaded cooler forward when heavily loaded for fishing - these are items that can and will be used on the trip. For instance, I would not recommend taking 10 downrigger weights with two downriggers aboard. I can see bringing along a spare!

As far as a more permanent solution to a trim/performance problem, rather than carring around "dead" and useless ballast such as ingots or other non-essential weighty items, it makes much more sense to install a pair of trim tabs that can be used when necessary and will generally improve the overall ride of the boat rather than weighing down your vessel with useless items.

Tony -
I'm suprised you felt the need to offset the weight of a single 115 HP 4-stroke motor on your classic 18' Outrage. It seems that the hull can handle much more weight than what you are currently imposing on the transom.

More weight is just more weight. For instance - I don't think that by adding weight to the bow of my boat that I would raise the transom (i.e. increase the freeboard at the transom). Rather, I think it might "level" the boat off at a lower level - the transom would keep the same freeboard, but the bow area would lose freeboard clearance from waterline.

posted 02-15-2007 02:42 PM ET (US)            

And sure, a grossly overpowered boat won't have much problem getting up onto plane, even if its resting trim has its bow waving in the air and its stern pressed way down in the water...but what about a Whaler which is powered within the specifications determined by BW but still has an overweighted transom? Yeah, that's when some folks start talking about Doelfins, etc. Wouldn't trimming the way I'm suggesting achieve the same goal, perhaps more in keeping with the design of the craft?

posted 02-15-2007 03:13 PM ET (US)            

I've become much more conscious about a boat's trim as I've moved into planning an eventual offshore voyage in a sailboat. There we're talking about literally thousands of pounds of additional weight being carefully distributed in one's boat to hopefully affect performance and seaworthyness as little as possible. I've seen passage-making sailboats so loaded down with food, fuel, water, and belongings that they've literally lost more than a foot of freeboard.

As for my OR 18, I made a couple of adjustments soon after repowering with my Yami 4/s. Whaler guru Joe Kriz drove the boat and didn't like the roostertail she was kicking up with the motor mounted in the bottom holes, so I raised it and the wake smoothed out. The new motor weighed almost a hundred pounds more than the old one, and I noticed that the portside-mounted kicker gave my boat a slight list to port when tied up at a dock. The batteries were already mounted in the console, so I put that bucket of lead salmon weights in a bucket in a cooler seat forward of the console and that seemed to balance the boat athwartwise a little better. Nothing really radical here, just a small adjustment that didn't really lower my freeboard any appreciable amount at all. My boat is almost level at rest, but I wouldn't hesitate to add weight in the anchor locker if she squatted there with her bow waving in the air.

Your classic beauty, Gambler/OR 18, might be a perfect example of what I'm talking about. I think you've done well mounting your twin E-TECs on Gambler's transom, and I envy your ownership of one of the sweetest Whalers at this website. But no offense, if it were my boat I'd at least try her out starting with maybe two hundred pounds of lead way up in the bow, in her anchor locker, and see what that would do with her trim and performance. We've got to remember that our boats have thousands of pounds of residual floatation, and a couple of hundred pounds of lead up there--while having a possibily dramatic effect on trim because of the long lever arm length from the motors' weight on the transom all the way up to the bow locker-- wouldn't really settle your craft very deeply in the water at all, I'd reckon. Anyway, easy enough to give it a try.

posted 02-15-2007 04:58 PM ET (US)            

I really don't mind how my boat appears from a static trim perspective. It is a bit stern heavy, I realize this, but underway, it is not a problem except in certain sea-states when the bow can be a bit light. That is why I installed Trim Tabs (although they were on my list from the beginning, before I repowered her). The tabs take care of the rest, when sea conditions warrant it.

Incidentally, I also plan to add additional weight to my bow area, however it is going to come in the form of a camping/sleeping platform that levels the bow area flush with the ‘steps’. Built entirely out of teak, it is sure to “bring balance to the force” and hopefully will also bring peace to the galaxy and I can stop hemorrhaging money onto my Whaler. Talk about bloody decks!

As I said above - the weight of twin engines is what I consider to be a "permanent" problem, which requires a permanent solution - thus the tabs.

I do not consider lead shot or sandbags, no matter how effective, to be an adequate, permanent solution. The loose ballast solution is inappropriate - especially in heavy seas, for the reason that Bob pointed out above - you don't want weight shifting around on you while underway, nor do you want to have to rely on passenger placement (and them staying put in heavy seas) for the proper ride characteristics of your vessel. I would hope that is also something that is observed when loading a passage-making vessel.

If you were using them for temporary conditions (i.e. a fully loaded boat headed to the fishing grounds, etc) then that is fine.

Patrick F. McManus wrote a great book (outdoor humor) called "They Shoot Canoes, Don't They?" that has a chapter which details how "temporary measures often become permanent measures", (see: http://www.amazon.ca/They-Shoot-Canoes-Dont/dp/0805000305 for your copy), however, when this happens, it usually belongs in a "Pluggers" ( http://www.comicspage.com/pluggers/pluggers_about.html ) cartoon strip, not on a fully restored classic Boston Whaler boat.

I realize that "Pluggers" can and do own classic Whalers, and at times, I belong in the "Plugger" category myself, but the grand legend and tradition of Whaler has always been first-class solutions to problems, with improvisation left to the owner in times of crisis or need on the sea.

That probably sounds haughty, but allowing a temporary solution become a permanent fix does not appear anywhere in my definition of doing things first-class. At the very least, your Whaler deserves the owner’s best attempt at a permanent and viable solution, to the best of their abilities to provide it via purchasing or via personal fixes. These are boats that can withstand a lot of abuse, but in my view, they deserve TLC and care – they will continue to become collector’s items and soon, the best specimens will begin to appreciate in value, much like the ChrisCraft and GarWood boats of yesteryear. Your boat only needs to make it another 15-20 years!

posted 02-15-2007 05:47 PM ET (US)            

As to the permanent nature--or perceived lack thereof--of adding weight to the bow locker, I don't really see that as a factor. There's probably less chance of lead shot, fish weights, or a couple of lead ingots coming adrift than the same thing happening to your anchor and chain rode in the same location. I haven't even secured the plastic bucket with the weights I have in my forward cooler seat...I've just got it wedged securely over on the starboard side of the cooler. Never had a problem with it at all, even in the somewhat lumpy stuff all too common out here.

And spare me the modesty about your gorgeous old tart, Dave. With the teak decks, the canvas, the radar arch, the very cool bracketed twins, she's as sweet as they get, IMO. In fact, how about a photo or two right here when you get a chance?

posted 02-15-2007 08:34 PM ET (US)            

This has allowed me to keep the battery in front of the splashwell and hang a motor 50lbs heavier then the original Suzuki without even feeling a difference. If anything it is a little bow heavy which is OK when the kicker is on it and the second anchor is near the stern.

posted 02-15-2007 11:10 PM ET (US)            

Hey Andy...I'm perfectly satisfied with the motor I have on my boat. If you read my first post on this topic, I posed the question because it seems that folks are always conflicted about the weight of certain motors on certain Whalers. Trim with modest amounts of weight forward seems to be one solution.

posted 02-16-2007 11:04 AM ET (US)            

In a vessel where the operator must purchase the energy used to propel the vessel, it makes less sense, since you will pay to push that weight around.

As I said before, if that weight serves another useful purpose aboard, then no harm, no foul. But if it's sole purpose is to balance your ride and is necessary at all times, you should consider a permanent solution by modifying the design of the boat.

The Trim Tabs allow you to modify the design of your hull in dynamic fashion, depending on your needs.

This is a rather simple solution if your trim problem is commmon and you don't generally need the extra weight for another useful purpose.

Maybe I need to get a fat girlfriend and make her ride in the bow.

posted 02-16-2007 09:18 PM ET (US)            

Nick, I don't have experience but my understanding is that divorce does not leave one richer. Quite the contrary from what I am told.

Buckda and Dave, I'm not sure the girlfriend riding the bow needs to be fat, after all we are talking about adding some weight to the bow.

posted 02-17-2007 01:20 AM ET (US)            

I'm the guy who often advocates the use of relatively small motors on the smaller classic Whalers, remember? Motors spec'd as midrange by BW engineers and designers are just fine for my uses, as they seem to be for many of the commercial guys who use Whalers out here. I loved the fifty four stroke I had on my Katama 16, and I'm even more pleased with the combination of a 115 4/s with a classic OR 18. It's the speed merchants among us I was addressing with this topic, and most of the responses to my suggestion convince me that I should just leave well enough alone with that bunch ;-)

Anyway, some of you who have Whalers with their bows waving in the air and your splashwells full of water at rest or while drifting or trolling might want to try a little weight in the bow locker and see what happens...it's a lot easier and less expensive than buying a new motor, and you might just be surprised at how little it affects your speed and fuel consumption (having two batteries in my boat's console and an additional 70 pounds of lead in my cooler seat sure doesn't seem to have adversely affected either in a discernable way).

Oh Spring...whither art thou?

posted 02-17-2007 02:15 AM ET (US)            

Didn't Whaler themselves ballast the 31'er?

A set of bennett trim tabs with pump weighs about 55#'s.

posted 02-17-2007 11:59 AM ET (US)            

I appreciate you starting this thread. This is helpful.

My 1991 Outrage 17 is stern heavy with a Yamaha 115 4-stroke. The max hp for the hull is 120. Maybe the 402 lbs (dry) of the motor is too much. With only 67 hrs on the motor a repower is not an option.

The issue of a stern heavy transom is a concern for me when coming off a plane; navigating really short, tall chop at slow speeds where I can ship a lot of water. I avoid backing down and if I have to, it is done very gently.

This spring I plan to move my battery and any other gear forward. If this doesn't help, I plan to add some weight to the bow.

Regards,

posted 02-17-2007 02:53 PM ET (US)            

I think you'll notice an immediate difference just by moving your battery(s) up into your console, plus you'll have both those great transom lazarettes for much-needed storage, which is sadly lacking on my classic OR 18. And by all means stick with that motor. I've got the same one on my Outrage and haven't had one bit of trouble in 750+ hours. Your relatively rare classic OR 17 is one of my all time favorite Whalers, by the way. I've been fortunate enough to cruise and fish on several occasions in one owned by CW member Marc/halibut hunter...what a sweet boat.