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Author Topic:   Honda BF 90 New

jimh posted 03-29-2007 08:27 PM ET (US)
I have to bring this motor up for discussion again, and it is because of what I find to be a great deal of irony about the position of the new Honda BF 90 in the marketplace. A few years ago the Honda four-stroke motors had a reputation for being really big, really heavy, really low-tech carburetor motors that did not produce much performance and offered only a sense of simple, quiet reliability as their main attractions. Boy has that changed.
The new Honda BF90 (as opposed to the old motor with the identical model name, a silly practice of poor marketing which is about the only thing I don't like about this motor, but I digress) has set the four-stroke market in the 90-HP range into an amazing turn around. Consider this:
--The new Honda BF90 is THE LIGHTEST MOTOR in the 90-HP class
--The new Honda BF90 is SMALLER THAN THE PREVIOUS MODEL and may be the smallest motor in its class
--The new Honda BF90 has sophisticated VARIABLE VALVE TIMING
--The new Honda BF90 has FUEL INJECTION
--The new Honda BF90 has a HIGH CURRENT BATTERY CHARGING SYSTEM
--The new Honda BF90 has a NEW GEARCASE DESIGN
--The new Honda BF90 has IMPROVED FUEL ECONOMY
It was not too long ago that die hard fans of Mercury motors were referring to Honda outboard as "pigs." Boy, has that changed. When you line up the new Honda BF90 and the new Mercury VERADITO 90, it turns out that the Honda motor is smaller, lighter, and more sophisticated in its design with variable variable valve timing.
Oh, I think I forgot to mention that HONDA four-stroke motors have been rated NUMBER ONE in customer satisfaction by J. D. Power for THREE CONSECUTIVE YEARS. And in this year's results they scored higher than ever before--and that was with the OLD BF90 design! On top of all this, they are currently selling them with a FIVE YEAR WARRANTY.
That is a lot of stuff to like about the new Honda BF90.
Is there anything to like about the competitors' [four-stroke] motors?
Perry posted 03-29-2007 08:50 PM ET (US)
In additiion to the above features I read it also has what they call BLAST (boosted low speed torque) which advances ignition timing during acceleration, resulting in improved hole shots.
That should be interesting. One of the complaints I had about my old carburated BF90 was its sluggish hole shot. If this new BLAST technology proves to work well, it will really be another good improvement over their old BF90.
I anxiously await the planned repower of two CW member's boats (classic Montauk and 160 Dauntless) with this new motor.
A Little Madness posted 03-29-2007 10:32 PM ET (US)
Maybe I have a convert here. After all the discussion I've been involved with about my new Honda BF 90, I thought I'd blasphemed by not going for the E-TEC 90. NO ONE is awaiting its arrival more than I! Stopped by my dealer today and my new hydraulic steering is in along w/several other parts, but not my motor. Still a few weeks to go. I promise to report on it (hopefully in sufficient detail to satisfy all) as soon as I wet the prop.
fourdfish posted 03-29-2007 10:45 PM ET (US)
Another foreign import to help our economy! It would seem that
someday we may be unable to provide for ourselves!
jimh posted 03-30-2007 12:04 AM ET (US)
I guess I should have said "competitors' four-stroke motors."
Please no two-stroke versus four-stroke comparisons, let's just stick to 90-HP four-stroke motors.
Compared to the Yamaha, the Honda is:
--lighter (359-lbs v 369-lbs)
--higher-tech with V-TEC versus no cam tuning
--more charging output (44-A v 25-A)
--refined gear case and lower unit design
The Yamaha 90 is really getting to be an "old" design. It has been around for years. I suspect Yamaha will have a new motor out soon to compete. I would not bet on the Yamaha in a performance "shootout." My guess: you don't have to wait eight weeks for delivery on the Yamaha 90.
The Mercury VERADITO is another competitor. It is heavier by 40-lbs. The Mercury is probably a really overbuilt 90-HP motor. The same block cranks out 200-HP as a Verado. It remains to be seen how it stacks up in performance testing. There is no supercharger and no valve timing tricks to help this four-stroke. It just needs to spool up to 6,400-RPM to get going, The Mercury is on par with the charging output, 50-A. And the Mercury is build in Wisconsin--Yeah!
Suzuki's 90-HP is a 416-lb monster. It is a four-cylinder motor with more displacement. It is really a de-tuned 115-HP. It has some technology under the cowling, with cam timing and a tuned and water-cooled intake system. This motor is probably a performer. It is just a giant for a 90-HP, and probably too big for classic Whaler transoms.
I think the Honda has a lot of buzz for a four-stroke. Let's get one on the transom of a MONTAUK and have a race with some popular two-stroke motors. We'll see if it looks as good as it does on paper.
PeteB88 posted 03-30-2007 12:19 AM ET (US)
Oh happy day! If I ever get me Montauk I will likely go VTEC Honda - I won't argue right or wrong but my money has been on performance, reliability and economy = TRUST since 76. Third Accord w/ VTEC heads to Florida tomorrow afternoon, 4 cylinder will get 34-35 cruise 78-80, I will get there and come back, if I need to mash down on it to pass or merge, VTEC shoots that 4 banger off like a slingshot. They just run, emissions are low and I like them.
IF any indication for outboards, they will be fantastic. IT's a global company, competition is good, may the best man win, quality doesn't cost it pays, good better best always do better till better is best - Honda innovates, works hard and delivers.
Trust = confidence. Now if there was a 175 lb, Honda VTEC 40 for the 13 . . .
jimh posted 03-30-2007 08:22 PM ET (US)
The new Honda BF90 is something of a break through in the four-stroke engine market. It is akin to the astonishing improvement the E-TEC was to the two-stroke engine. We finally get a new four-stroke that is actually LIGHTER than the predecessor, as well as SMALLER. And at the same time it gets BETTER GAS MILEAGE. And it delivers BETTER PERFORMANCE. And it comes with a LONGER WARRANTY.
These are all qualities you have to like. I consider the Honda BF90 to be a sort of E-TEC for the four-strokes. A modern engine with good engineering and a break-through in size and weight.
towboater posted 03-31-2007 05:06 AM ET (US)
Again, THANKS for the update Jim.
"Suzuki's 90-HP is a 416-lb monster"...I agree.
I know you are unbiased & the topic is fairly specific to the 90 HP range of 4 strokes Jim.
After months of engine option research, I cant resist,
where does the 410 lb Suzuki DF140 fit in?
High tech alloys are emerging.
Honda also just built a 9 passenger JET that flies faster using less fuel than the competition.

All I know, it's all good cept the price.
mk
sbanach posted 04-01-2007 11:03 PM ET (US)
The decision to repower was easy - salt water corroded the power head on the 2002 Merc 4 stroke. After spending BIG bucks trying to fix it over 8 months (the dealer thought it was a carb problem), they wanted another $4k for the powerhead. No money for a trade in. No thank you.
Yamaha, Merc, Suzuki, Honda - which 90HP to go with? Definately wanted EFI. Tried to find a "Consumer Reports" type evaluation, no luck. Saw the JD Powers review, I was sold.
Honda is not known for power. They are known for reliability. Reliability is my #1 concern.
I agree that it is better to buy American. The Japanese make a better egine. Sorry. I spent a lot of money maintaining my American cars in the 80's and 90's. My Toyotas are super reliable.
Three more weeks. I am first in line for the repower when the new Hondas arrive. I would be thrilled to run some tests against other Dauntless 160's on the Chesapeake Bay.
Once again, thanks to all for your help. Can't wait to get on the water!
A Little Madness posted 04-01-2007 11:29 PM ET (US)
SBANACH - I'm hoping I wet my hull before you, but regardless, it won't be long and I'm confindent we won't be disappointed. This BLAST technology should help us w/the hole shot, but really, just how much power do we need if it spends all its time in the water (versus the shop) and keeps going like the Everyready Bunny! Good Luck
itl posted 04-02-2007 08:55 AM ET (US)
Dont forget that Honda 90 has lean burn technology also. There are oxygen sensor in exhaust side and loopback from it to fuel injection adjustment. Like car engines with catalysators. Oxygen level in exhaustgas is measured and air/fuel ration is adjusted partly based on that.
There is no doubt that new Honda 90 is the most technologically advanced engine in 90hp four stroke class. To be a perfect 90hp engine, the Honda lack two things: NMEA2000 compatibility and camshaft timing chaing instead of belt like.
However, there is nothing new under the sun. All of those nice features have been seen before in other engine models, but not in 90hp class before.
When comparing 90hp engines, for example Honda vs. Suzuki, you must remember that Zuki is little brother of mighty 115hp engine. So the "heavy" weight come from there. In the other hand, Honda 90hp is a base engine of the family like the Zuki 115hp is. I dont think it is really fair to compare big brother vs. little brother together :) Better comparison would be Honda 90hp vs Yamaha 90hp in sense of engine weight and if you take a look of those numbers, you can see that there is no big difference. Mercury Veradito 90hp is also the little brother of 115hp model and it is not so light as it could be if engine desing priciples has been based on 90hp level. However, 90hp is 90hp and weight is weight, no matter which engine design factor leads to that.
Have not seen any good performance test with new Honda 90hp engine vs. other brands. Really keen to see some results. However, I have read one ecomparison: New Honda 90 vs old Honda 90. Surprise, in performance point of view the new engine really kick ass of old Honda.

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Author	Topic: Honda BF 90 New
jimh	posted 03-29-2007 08:27 PM ET (US) I have to bring this motor up for discussion again, and it is because of what I find to be a great deal of irony about the position of the new Honda BF 90 in the marketplace. A few years ago the Honda four-stroke motors had a reputation for being really big, really heavy, really low-tech carburetor motors that did not produce much performance and offered only a sense of simple, quiet reliability as their main attractions. Boy has that changed. The new Honda BF90 (as opposed to the old motor with the identical model name, a silly practice of poor marketing which is about the only thing I don't like about this motor, but I digress) has set the four-stroke market in the 90-HP range into an amazing turn around. Consider this: --The new Honda BF90 is THE LIGHTEST MOTOR in the 90-HP class --The new Honda BF90 is SMALLER THAN THE PREVIOUS MODEL and may be the smallest motor in its class --The new Honda BF90 has sophisticated VARIABLE VALVE TIMING --The new Honda BF90 has FUEL INJECTION --The new Honda BF90 has a HIGH CURRENT BATTERY CHARGING SYSTEM --The new Honda BF90 has a NEW GEARCASE DESIGN --The new Honda BF90 has IMPROVED FUEL ECONOMY It was not too long ago that die hard fans of Mercury motors were referring to Honda outboard as "pigs." Boy, has that changed. When you line up the new Honda BF90 and the new Mercury VERADITO 90, it turns out that the Honda motor is smaller, lighter, and more sophisticated in its design with variable variable valve timing. Oh, I think I forgot to mention that HONDA four-stroke motors have been rated NUMBER ONE in customer satisfaction by J. D. Power for THREE CONSECUTIVE YEARS. And in this year's results they scored higher than ever before--and that was with the OLD BF90 design! On top of all this, they are currently selling them with a FIVE YEAR WARRANTY. That is a lot of stuff to like about the new Honda BF90. Is there anything to like about the competitors' [four-stroke] motors?
Perry	posted 03-29-2007 08:50 PM ET (US) In additiion to the above features I read it also has what they call BLAST (boosted low speed torque) which advances ignition timing during acceleration, resulting in improved hole shots. That should be interesting. One of the complaints I had about my old carburated BF90 was its sluggish hole shot. If this new BLAST technology proves to work well, it will really be another good improvement over their old BF90. I anxiously await the planned repower of two CW member's boats (classic Montauk and 160 Dauntless) with this new motor.
A Little Madness	posted 03-29-2007 10:32 PM ET (US) Maybe I have a convert here. After all the discussion I've been involved with about my new Honda BF 90, I thought I'd blasphemed by not going for the E-TEC 90. NO ONE is awaiting its arrival more than I! Stopped by my dealer today and my new hydraulic steering is in along w/several other parts, but not my motor. Still a few weeks to go. I promise to report on it (hopefully in sufficient detail to satisfy all) as soon as I wet the prop.
fourdfish	posted 03-29-2007 10:45 PM ET (US) Another foreign import to help our economy! It would seem that someday we may be unable to provide for ourselves!
jimh	posted 03-30-2007 12:04 AM ET (US) I guess I should have said "competitors' four-stroke motors." Please no two-stroke versus four-stroke comparisons, let's just stick to 90-HP four-stroke motors. Compared to the Yamaha, the Honda is: --lighter (359-lbs v 369-lbs) --higher-tech with V-TEC versus no cam tuning --more charging output (44-A v 25-A) --refined gear case and lower unit design The Yamaha 90 is really getting to be an "old" design. It has been around for years. I suspect Yamaha will have a new motor out soon to compete. I would not bet on the Yamaha in a performance "shootout." My guess: you don't have to wait eight weeks for delivery on the Yamaha 90. The Mercury VERADITO is another competitor. It is heavier by 40-lbs. The Mercury is probably a really overbuilt 90-HP motor. The same block cranks out 200-HP as a Verado. It remains to be seen how it stacks up in performance testing. There is no supercharger and no valve timing tricks to help this four-stroke. It just needs to spool up to 6,400-RPM to get going, The Mercury is on par with the charging output, 50-A. And the Mercury is build in Wisconsin--Yeah! Suzuki's 90-HP is a 416-lb monster. It is a four-cylinder motor with more displacement. It is really a de-tuned 115-HP. It has some technology under the cowling, with cam timing and a tuned and water-cooled intake system. This motor is probably a performer. It is just a giant for a 90-HP, and probably too big for classic Whaler transoms. I think the Honda has a lot of buzz for a four-stroke. Let's get one on the transom of a MONTAUK and have a race with some popular two-stroke motors. We'll see if it looks as good as it does on paper.
PeteB88	posted 03-30-2007 12:19 AM ET (US) Oh happy day! If I ever get me Montauk I will likely go VTEC Honda - I won't argue right or wrong but my money has been on performance, reliability and economy = TRUST since 76. Third Accord w/ VTEC heads to Florida tomorrow afternoon, 4 cylinder will get 34-35 cruise 78-80, I will get there and come back, if I need to mash down on it to pass or merge, VTEC shoots that 4 banger off like a slingshot. They just run, emissions are low and I like them. IF any indication for outboards, they will be fantastic. IT's a global company, competition is good, may the best man win, quality doesn't cost it pays, good better best always do better till better is best - Honda innovates, works hard and delivers. Trust = confidence. Now if there was a 175 lb, Honda VTEC 40 for the 13 . . .
jimh	posted 03-30-2007 08:22 PM ET (US) The new Honda BF90 is something of a break through in the four-stroke engine market. It is akin to the astonishing improvement the E-TEC was to the two-stroke engine. We finally get a new four-stroke that is actually LIGHTER than the predecessor, as well as SMALLER. And at the same time it gets BETTER GAS MILEAGE. And it delivers BETTER PERFORMANCE. And it comes with a LONGER WARRANTY. These are all qualities you have to like. I consider the Honda BF90 to be a sort of E-TEC for the four-strokes. A modern engine with good engineering and a break-through in size and weight.
towboater	posted 03-31-2007 05:06 AM ET (US) Again, THANKS for the update Jim. "Suzuki's 90-HP is a 416-lb monster"...I agree. I know you are unbiased & the topic is fairly specific to the 90 HP range of 4 strokes Jim. After months of engine option research, I cant resist, where does the 410 lb Suzuki DF140 fit in? High tech alloys are emerging. Honda also just built a 9 passenger JET that flies faster using less fuel than the competition. All I know, it's all good cept the price. mk
sbanach	posted 04-01-2007 11:03 PM ET (US) The decision to repower was easy - salt water corroded the power head on the 2002 Merc 4 stroke. After spending BIG bucks trying to fix it over 8 months (the dealer thought it was a carb problem), they wanted another $4k for the powerhead. No money for a trade in. No thank you. Yamaha, Merc, Suzuki, Honda - which 90HP to go with? Definately wanted EFI. Tried to find a "Consumer Reports" type evaluation, no luck. Saw the JD Powers review, I was sold. Honda is not known for power. They are known for reliability. Reliability is my #1 concern. I agree that it is better to buy American. The Japanese make a better egine. Sorry. I spent a lot of money maintaining my American cars in the 80's and 90's. My Toyotas are super reliable. Three more weeks. I am first in line for the repower when the new Hondas arrive. I would be thrilled to run some tests against other Dauntless 160's on the Chesapeake Bay. Once again, thanks to all for your help. Can't wait to get on the water!
A Little Madness	posted 04-01-2007 11:29 PM ET (US) SBANACH - I'm hoping I wet my hull before you, but regardless, it won't be long and I'm confindent we won't be disappointed. This BLAST technology should help us w/the hole shot, but really, just how much power do we need if it spends all its time in the water (versus the shop) and keeps going like the Everyready Bunny! Good Luck
itl	posted 04-02-2007 08:55 AM ET (US) Dont forget that Honda 90 has lean burn technology also. There are oxygen sensor in exhaust side and loopback from it to fuel injection adjustment. Like car engines with catalysators. Oxygen level in exhaustgas is measured and air/fuel ration is adjusted partly based on that. There is no doubt that new Honda 90 is the most technologically advanced engine in 90hp four stroke class. To be a perfect 90hp engine, the Honda lack two things: NMEA2000 compatibility and camshaft timing chaing instead of belt like. However, there is nothing new under the sun. All of those nice features have been seen before in other engine models, but not in 90hp class before. When comparing 90hp engines, for example Honda vs. Suzuki, you must remember that Zuki is little brother of mighty 115hp engine. So the "heavy" weight come from there. In the other hand, Honda 90hp is a base engine of the family like the Zuki 115hp is. I dont think it is really fair to compare big brother vs. little brother together :) Better comparison would be Honda 90hp vs Yamaha 90hp in sense of engine weight and if you take a look of those numbers, you can see that there is no big difference. Mercury Veradito 90hp is also the little brother of 115hp model and it is not so light as it could be if engine desing priciples has been based on 90hp level. However, 90hp is 90hp and weight is weight, no matter which engine design factor leads to that. Have not seen any good performance test with new Honda 90hp engine vs. other brands. Really keen to see some results. However, I have read one ecomparison: New Honda 90 vs old Honda 90. Surprise, in performance point of view the new engine really kick ass of old Honda.