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Author
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Topic: Engine Operating Temperature
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jimh |
posted 09-29-2007 11:42 AM ET (US)
I recently added an engine temperature gauge to monitor the temperature of my 1992 Evinrude 225-HP V6. This is the third device which provides indication of the engine cooling system operation. My motivation for adding this gauge was to learn more about how the engine was operating, as well as to add another instrument to the dash board and to create a little project for my weekend.I purchased an OEM engine temperature gauge from my local Evinrude dealer, Lockeman's Boat and Hardware in Detroit. I wanted an OEM gauge so that it would harmonize with the appearance of the other OEM gauges on the panel. As it happened, Lockeman's had an appropriate gauge in stock that was about ten years old (c.1997) and from the OMC era. Thus its appearance was just about a perfect match for my 1992 OMC gauges. I had previously mentioned to OMC Master Mechanic Ben that I was planning to install the engine temperature gauge and sought his comments. Ben's wry reply was that after I had installed the gauge I would be able 'to watch the temperature go up and down." At the time he made that comment I did not appreciate the accuracy of it. Installation of the gauge was very simple. A brass sending unit was threaded into an existing boss on the starboard top cylinder. This location is monitored because it is generally the hottest region of the engine. A supplied light brown or tan wire was run from there to the dash board. The supplied wire turned out to be about five feet short, but since I had just purchased my own stock of marine grade wire in various common colors, it was a simple matter to splice on the necessary extension. I also installed a new ring terminal on the extension wire. Adding the new gauge to the panel was just a matter of rearranging the existing gauges. I removed the voltmeter gauge from the dash board panel and moved it to the electrical panel, replacing the hour meter that was mounted there. The hour meter was then mounted in a new location, not on the dash board or console. Since the hour meter did not require constant observation while operating the motor, it was moved to an interior location inside the console but visible when the console door is open. Changing all the locations and wiring gave me an excuse to do some more clean-up of the installation, to re-route some more wires, and to dress up the wiring on the back of the dash board panel (and use some more of that newly purchased wire I had in stock). After a couple of hours I was finished with the overhaul of the dash board instrument panel, and put it back in place. Now to see if the new gauge worked. I turned the ignition key on and closely observed the gauge indicator for any sign of movement. If it moved at all, it was imperceptible. With the engine block at ambient temperature (about 80-degrees) the temperature gauge pointer rested on the left-hand peg of the dial. Curious to know that the gauge was actually going to work, I cajoled Chris into accompanying me to the local boat launch ramp, where we could back the boat into the lake and start the engine. (You might ask why I didn't just start the engine on a hose adaptor, and that is a good question. But the answer is also good. The noise of a V6 outboard running on a hose adaptor is rather loud, and for political reasons I do not wish to give the neighbors the sonic exposure to my motor that it would produce.) At the lake we just backed the boat down the ramp and left her on the trailer. I hopped aboard and started the engine. After about a minute at a fast idle of 1,500-RPM, the engine temperature gauge began to climb. This verified the new gauge was working and the installation was proven. We hauled the boat back out of the ramp and went home for dinner. I did not get a chance to actually run the motor under normal conditions for a couple of weeks, and on Labor Day weekend we found ourselves out in the rather cold water of Lake Michigan (50-degree-F). Idling out to the big lake from the marina brought the engine operating temperature up to about 155-degree-F. The weather that day was picture-perfect, and the lake surface abnormally calm. We got up on plane and headed north for a ten mile run along the shore. The fun and excitement of the beautiful day, the beautiful shoreline sand dunes, and the crystal clear water of Lake Michigan distracted my attention from the new temperature gauge. We had been underway and on plane for about 20 minutes when I finally thought to look at the new gauge and check the engine temperature. I was quite surprise to find that the cylinder head temperature had dropped to a very cool 90-degrees. For the next three days I watched the engine temperature more closely. I began to understand what Ben had meant by his comment about watching the temperature go up and down. While idling, the engine temperature would rise and stabilize around 150 to 155 degrees. But when the throttle was opened and the boat run at planing speeds, the engine temperature would drop rather quickly to less than 100-degrees. In a later consultation, Master Mechanic David Zammitt confirmed that this temperature swing is typical. At full throttle my V6 engine has "Power Cooling", a configuration where a water valve linked to the throttle adds greater water flow to the cylinder block water jacket. When at idle speeds this valve closes, and the engine temperature becomes hotter and is regulated by the action of the thermostat. The higher operating temperature at idle speeds helps improve the slow speed running characteristics of the engine. The extra cooling at high speed insures there won't be problems with overheating. I was surprised to find that the engine actually runs at a cooler temperature when operating at 4,000-RPM than it does at 800-RPM. Dave also mentioned that keeping the engine cool helps it to produce more horsepower output. Now I have three indicators of the engine cooling system: the water being exhausted from the cooling system aspirator (or tell-tale) nozzle, the pressure indicated on the water pressure gauge, and the engine cylinder head temperature shown on the temperature gauge. There is one final tweak that can be added. A second temperature head sensor can be installed on the port cylinder head, and the gauge can be switched to read from either port or starboard sensor. I'll leave that project for next season, although I already have the switch on hand. The three devices which are monitoring the cooling system were installed in the natural order of their priority. The aspirator or tell-tale comes with the engine and gives the operator immediate verification that there is a flow of water in the engine cooling system. The water pressure gauge is the next step in monitoring. It provides a measurable index of the condition of the water pump output and cooling system capacity. Finally the temperature gauge gives actual engine temperature and confirms that the devices which control engine temperature are working as designed.
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newt
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posted 09-30-2007 09:22 AM ET (US)
When I bought my Revenge a few years ago, the attached Johnson 150 was rigged with both port and starboard temperature gauges. A while back, I noticed the temps were higher than normal which prompted me replace thermostats and the water pump.I look forward to reading your follow up once you install the second sending unit and switch. You may find a whole new phenomenon to investigate, which is trying to understand the difference(s) in temperature between the two banks of cylinders! |
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newt
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posted 09-30-2007 09:32 AM ET (US)
I tend to disagree with your priority ranking of instrumentation. My thoughts are that the temperature sensors are more critical than the water pressure sensor. Damage to your engine occurs from excessive heat, which the temperature sensor will indicate. A drop in water pressure is one possible cause of excessive temperature, but low water pressure is not the ultimate cause of damage to your engine - excessive heat is. If you had a stuck thermostat, but your water pressure was fine, would the water pressure monitoring alert you to the problem? |
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Newtauk1
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posted 09-30-2007 09:58 AM ET (US)
I have found similar readings of my temperature gauge from a Mercury 75hp 2 stroke. The motor runs around 110-120 degrees at idle (800-900RPM) and drops down to the 60-90 degree range under way above 2400RPM. The brass sender located on the cylinder block cover failed within months of the new installation and was replaced. At the time of the failure my temperature gauge read over 200 degrees. I shut off the motor and called mercury from the water on my cell phone. They believed it was a sender failure as the over heat horn did not sound and the power head could be touched by hand without getting a burn. Mercury stated that if the power head had over heated to temperatures near 200 I would not have been able to touch it by hand which makes sense. Even at 120 degrees a person should be able to touch the power head without incurring a burn. The brass sender had corroded in less then one season (months) resulting in failure. The replacement has lasted three years. |
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andygere
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posted 10-01-2007 11:58 AM ET (US)
Good article Jim. When I rigged my E-TEC 200, one of the accessory digital-analog guages I added to the I-Command system was water pressure. I reasoned that the most likely cause of an overheat where I do most of my boating would be a water intake plugged with a big kelp leaf. This is a pretty common occurance, even away from the kelp beds since it often breaks up in heavy surf and then floats around in the currents. I figured that the guage is easy to keep an eye on, and it could alert me of a problem before an overheat occurred. My other reason for installing the guage is that the tell-tale indicator is quite difficult to see from the helm of my Outrage. It flows direcetly back from the engine cowel, making it difficult to see from helm position at the center console. The I-Command system has a digital LCD temperature readout built into the tach, as well as a digital water pressure read out. The electronic water pressure sender installed on the engine block sends a signal that can be displayed by either the LCD or an added digital-analog guage. Recently, I was able to see how well the system worked. As I was towing a disabled boater some 6.5 miles back to port last weekend, I was concerned with making sure that my engine stayed cool. I toggled the LCD display to show engine temperature, and kept a close eye on the needle of the water pressure guage. The engine was running around 160 degrees or so, and which varied by a few degrees here or there as I adjusted our speed for conditions. As we got near the harbor, there was a great deal of floating kelp in the water, even though I was well outside of where the live kelp was growing. As (bad) luck would have it, I was forced to steam through a wad of it, unable to manuever around it safely with a boat in tow, and several large sailboats ignoring me. Sure enough, I saw the water pressure gauge suddenly go to zero. Just as I backed off on the throttle and instructed my crew to tend the tow line to ensure it didn't wind up around my propellor, the temperature rose enough to sound the alarm. Putting the motor in neutral was all it took to release the kelp, and the temperature began to drop almost immediately. From this experience, I am convinced that both water pressure and temperature guages or readouts are worthwhile, and can help prevent a potentially damaging overheat. |
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Tohsgib
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posted 10-01-2007 12:20 PM ET (US)
Newt...I think Jim missed a very important monitor in his ranking which would be the overheat alarm and SLOW feature. This is a MAJOR item in controlling engine longevity and unless you have your eyes glued to the water pressure or temp guage 24/7...a must have and hence why it comes standard on most engines 20hp and higher in remote form. So I would say the telltale is first, you see it when you start the motor. The alarm/safety system is next in line but most critical, then water pressure is next, then cyl head temps. Hell you can put in an exhaust gas temp as well but now we are getting a tad overkill. Back in the 70's they did not have telltales nor alarms on most engines yet...we've come a long way since. |
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newt
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posted 10-01-2007 09:25 PM ET (US)
OK, what am I missing here? Why is water pressure more important than cylinder head temp? I'm thinking knowing the temperature of the engine will alert you to any of the problems leading up to an overheat. Is it possible to have a stuck thermostat leading to melted parts all the while the water pressure was good? |
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L H G
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posted 10-01-2007 10:01 PM ET (US)
THEORETICALLY, water pressure is more important, since the cylinder head temp can't rise out of control until water pressure is decreased. BUT........ In a real life boating situation, most don't concentrate on either the pressure or temp gauges, making the AUDIBLE ALARM the most important engine saving feature.From the mid 80's, Merc 2-stroke V-6's have come from the factory with a temp gauge as part of the package, and the sender already installed on the engine, and the wire in the ignition cable. So the engineers must have thought the temp gauge more important than pressure. Generally, Merc has recommend pressure for performance and transom bracket installations, and elevated operating heights. That way you can tell if the engine is sucking in air instead of water. But, once again, with the recently redesigned dual low water pickups (in the lower front of the gear bullet) now being used on the Opti's and Verados, pressure again is probably less important, as it's impossible to get the water pickups too high now. |
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jimh
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posted 10-01-2007 11:58 PM ET (US)
My basis for ranking the three indicators as I did was this:When a motor is started the three indicators reveal themselves in this order: --water is seen flowing from the tell tale or aspirator of the cooling system almost as soon as the engine begins to run; it is the first sign of operation of the cooling system; --when the cooling system purges itself of air and begins its normal operation, the water pressure gauge stabilizes and shows the pressure. This indicates that the water pump is operating at normal level, and thus is the second sign of operation of the cooling system; --when the temperature gauge comes off the dial rest and moves upward, it joins the others in providing an indication of operating of the cooling system. It is the third monitoring device. I fully agree that having an aural alarm which sounds when cylinder block temperature reaches a high threshold is also important. Most engines have a separate thermostatic switch which operates the alarm. This is another element of the cooling system monitoring, possibly the most critical. The beauty of the pressure gauge is that it gives real time monitoring of the water pump output. You can observe the pressure and make an inference about the condition of the water pump impeller based on the reading. When the pressure begins to fall off, it will be a sign that service of the water pump is needed. |
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L H G
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posted 10-02-2007 12:53 AM ET (US)
Jim's statements should be further qualified as applicable only to a 3 liter OMC V6. OMC's cooling system is different, say, from Merc's, both in the telltale design, and the absence of pressure reducing (flow reducing) poppet valves.With a Merc, Jim's description does not apply. It takes several minutes after startup for a telltale to even show. The water first has to go all the way through the engine, to the top cylinders, to be evident. When it finally does show, it's HOT. With OMC, there seems to be a short circuit directly from the impeller to the telltale, where it expells cold water. There is no way to know the upper cylinders are getting cooled, and the OMC design only shows the impeller is not blocked. Merc's design tells you the impeller is working and all cylinders are getting water. Also with my Mercs, there is very little water pressure indication at low RPM and startup, since the poppet valve prevents full flow of water pressure to the top cylinders, where the pressure take-off is done. There has to be enough RPM and subsequent impeller RPM to create the water pressure to open the poppet valve, which will then show operating water pressure up at the top cylinder. So with Mercs, once the telltale starts to show up, the temp gauge is your next indicator of proper cooling. But when you're running in 4' seas offshore, tending to the conditions, wheel and throttles, the AUDIBLE TEMP ALARM is what counts when you pick up that plastic bag! Been there more than once. |
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newt
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posted 10-02-2007 07:08 AM ET (US)
I fully understand the benefit of knowing water pressure and also fully agree that the audible alarm is a must-have indicator.I have one nagging unanswered question. Is it possible for the engine or parts of the engine to overheat even if the water pressure gauge shows adequate pressure? |
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Jerry Townsend
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posted 10-02-2007 01:16 PM ET (US)
This subject has been addressed previously - and again, in my mind - temperature is much more important that is pressure. Important indicators are 1) tell-tale stream, 2) alarm system, 3) temperature and then way down the list 4) pressure.Larry - Your statement "... THEORETICALLY, water pressure is more important, since the cylinder head temp can't rise out of control until water pressure is decreased. ..." is not correct. That is - for example, if the discharge were blocked, or et.al. .... the pressure does not decrease - but there is no flow and the engine temperature increases. And yes - the engineers must have thought the temp gauge more important than pressure. Newt - Your "... nagging unanswered question. ..." is very appropriate - and yes - it possible for the engine or parts of the engine to overheat even if the water pressure gauge shows adequate pressure. A stuck thermostat will do the job - as will any other blockage. Now, in the engineering and control world - in this case, pressure is a feed-forward control signal - telling you of a potential problem - whereas temperature is a feed-back control signal - telling you what is REALLY happening. Proper/stable/el.al. control REQUIRES some form of feed-back control. Many will say that we do not have a control system - but remember, our mind and knowledge is a wonderful control system - and is the control system we are talking about here. A potential danger of using a pressure indication is that one may become complacent with just looking at the pressure and ignore temperature. A related thought - the manufacturer's incorporating a low pressure trip of the alarm system would be beneficial - but there are potential problems that would have to be addressed. ------ Jerry/Idaho
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Tohsgib
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posted 10-02-2007 02:33 PM ET (US)
To give you a good idea about water pressure gauge without a jacked up engine: I was running my 225 OMC with the stock fresh water flush system in it. I made a homemade one that will quick disconnect. I guess it was quicker than I though and the nozzel flew out about an hour from my house. Alarm never sounded but water pressure was running about 20psi instead of close to 30 so I knew something went wrong....removed it and put in OEM and off I went. So yes a water pressure gauge is important but not as much as temp. Now if you run a jackplate, you should have one to see if you are getting the full pressure or ??? |
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andygere
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posted 10-02-2007 04:41 PM ET (US)
In my case, I think it's important to point out that I added a pressure gauge, in addition to a temperature gauge and alarm, for a very specific reason: I often fish in and around the kelp beds, and a blocked intake is a likely and somewhat expected problem. I'd much rather notice it before the engine gets hot than once it's already overheated. Been there, done that. Because the pressure gauge is one of only 3 analog gauges on my console (the others being a tachometer and trim indicator), I've gotten in the habit of glancing down at it pretty regularly while I run the boat. The temperature gauge is an LCD readout integral to the tach, which is more difficult to see while underway. Bottom line, more information is better than less information. Gauges are cheap relative to the price of outboard motors, so why not have both temperature and pressure? |
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jimh
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posted 10-02-2007 09:12 PM ET (US)
As for whether or not the delay between engine start and the appearance of water from the tell-tale or aspirator is a sign of good or bad engineering, I can only make this comment:As mentioned by LHG, with the type of configuration used apparently by OMC and Yamaha, there is some sign of water output from the tell-tale or aspirator very soon after engine start, and on the Mercury motors there is often a long delay, upwards of a minute or so, before any water appears. I think that it is a fair characterization that most operators check for water flow shortly after engine start as a sign that the motor is operating properly. On the motors where the flow begins right away, you get immediate confirmation that you have water flow in the cooling system. On the Mercury you might be running the motor for two minutes before you decide that something is wrong. With the Yamaha and OMC style configuration, you get much faster indication of a problem than in the Mercury configuration. If there is no water after 20-seconds, I would shut down to investigate the problem. There are actually three different sources of water which feed the tell-tale on my OMC motor, and I have not made a study of precisely where the are all located in the cooling system in terms of their distance from the water pump. One hose appears to be a bypass from the Power Cooling valve which dumps excess flow when the valve is closed; a second hose is from some point in the cooling system water jacket which I assume is located fairly high in the engine so that trapped air is easily expelled--that is what the term aspirator refers to I believe--and a third is really a water suction pickup which is intended to remove any trapped water from the mid-cowling which might have entered if the engine were swamped in high waves. Jerry--I very much like your explanation of feed-forward and feed-back data. Thank you for joining this discussion to add that. The pressure shown on my water pressure gauge is initially a bit low, around 5 to 10-PSI, until all the air is purged from the system. At that point the pressure increases to about 15-PSI or more. When the throttle is opened and the Power Cooling valve opens, the pressure tends to drop slightly. In all cases the water pressure is correlated with the volume of flow from the tell-tale or aspirator. So in a sense you can say the pressure gauge is a sort of calibrated measurement of flow volume. Again, I have to say that the pressure gauge gives you an index into the state of the water pump and will warn of problems in pump output which may not show up immediately in engine over heating. In any case, can a fellow have too many gauges on this engine? |
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lurkynot
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posted 10-03-2007 12:16 AM ET (US)
The "Power Cooling valve" is what I believe is referred to as the poppet valve. |
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jimh
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posted 10-03-2007 12:56 AM ET (US)
Power Cooling Valve ≠ poppet valveA poppet valve is operated by pressure. The Power Cooling valve is operated by a direct mechanical link to the throttle. |
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knothead
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posted 10-03-2007 09:06 AM ET (US)
Come on guys, lets face the truth. We are all motorheads to a certain degree. Gauges look cool to us, the more the merrier. We like gauges in our cars and on our boats. We all hated the infamous idiot lights in our cars back in the 60's and 70's. All this justification is pointless, lets just install them and enjoy the beauty of gauges. It makes us feel good. regards---knothead |
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jimh
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posted 10-17-2007 08:56 PM ET (US)
I am reviving this recent discussion to append this observation:Last Saturday evening I ended up watching the prime time NASCAR race on television--yes, I know, this is somewhat out of character for me but I was really quite tired from hand-buffing the gel coat on the boat all day and I spent the evening lounging in an easy chair in front of the television, but I digress. In the course of the race one of the cars had a very small piece of debris, a sheet of paper perhaps, which was plastered to the grill of the car and held in place by the wind pressure. The announcers pointed this out and explained that even this slight blockage of the air intake to the radiator was going to be a big problem, and they predicted that the car would soon have its engine over heat. I could not believe that such a small area of blockage in the grill could have such an effect, but I was wrong and the announcers right. A few minutes later the car was in the pits and water was spewing out of a relief valve in the hood; the cooling system was over heating. Of course during the pit stop the debris was removed, and the car got back in the race without damage to the engine. What this showed me was how much heat is produced by an engine operating at high power, and, to apply this to outboard motors, how even a small reduction in the cooling system output in a motor can lead to overheating at high power operation. I do not imagine that most of our outboard motors are operating as close to the limit of their cooling systems as these 800-HP NASCAR engines. Outboard motors have the advantage of an unlimited amount of cold water for cooling, while the NASCAR cars are running on a hot track with cooling air at high ambient temperatures. But I found their sensitivity to loss of cooling to be instructive. The lesson: keep a close eye on your engine's cooling system. When operating at high speeds you will be depending on it to keep your expensive outboard motor from overheating. |