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Author Topic:   Time for a New Propeller on MONTAUK

Chuck Tribolet posted 03-22-2008 11:07 AM ET (US)
I have a 1997-ish Montauk with a 1997 Evinrude 90-HP carburetor
two-stroke E90ELEUA. It came with an aluminum OMC propeller,
14x17, p/n 176214. The propeller is starting to look tired.
I've been happy with it and don't see a reason to change,
but OMC no longer carries this prop. Their current aluminum
propeller in this range is a 13 3/4 x 17, p/n 763463
http://shop.evinrude.com/dyn_prod.php?p=763463&k=83702
Googling 176214 propeller comes up with a page of hits, not
one of which I recognize except eBay.
I don't see any reason for me to go to an SS prop.
What to do?

Chuck
Tom W Clark posted 03-22-2008 03:42 PM ET (US)
If your aluminum prop is getting "tired", that alone is one reason to go to a stainless steel propeller. Stainless steel won't wear out.
Chuck Tribolet posted 03-22-2008 06:15 PM ET (US)
Tom, it's been bounced off a few things. It pushes my boat
as fast as I want to go. It hasn't hurt the drive line (see
"it's been bounced off of a few things.".
It's got about 900 hours on it.
It's worked. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Chuck
Tom W Clark posted 03-22-2008 11:36 PM ET (US)
Then what is your question?
jimh posted 03-23-2008 10:24 AM ET (US)
Bombadier has a line of aluminum propellers which seem to give good performance with a 90-HP motor. I'd try one of those in a size that most closely matches your existing propeller. I believe this new line of Bombardier aluminum propellers was introduced about the same time as the E-TEC motors on which they seem to perform well.
Tohsgib posted 03-24-2008 11:36 AM ET (US)
Ever consider having it refurbed? Should cost about 1/2 of new.
adlert posted 03-24-2008 11:59 AM ET (US)
Chuck I'm thinking it likely you could possibly save a bit of fuel going to a 19" pitch prop. I run a 19 on my Montauk (1984 90 hp OMC) and still have more than enough get up and go for any and all normal water sports. My vote would be to purchase another prop (19" pitch new, used, stainless, aluminum, whatever...) and place your old prop in the console as a spare.
I certainly do understand the benefits of and support for aluminum prop usage. Back when I regularly worked as a technician it was very clear they have their benefits. Very rarely would I see seriously damaged drivelines on engines running aluminum. Not nearly so rare for steel.
Tim
Tohsgib posted 03-24-2008 12:44 PM ET (US)
19 is OK on a 17 w/90 but the 17 is ideal, allows you to get about 5400rpm which is perfect. The 19 will drop you down to about 5k or less which is OK but not ideal being redline is 5500. This is for crossflows, nt sure about Looper 60 degree 90's but I assume the same.
adlert posted 03-24-2008 02:57 PM ET (US)
Well now I'm going to have to plug in a Tach and check that out. I certainly trust your experience Nick, I just never would have guessed I wasn't getting the full 5500 from the sounds of things and the neck snapping acceleration. My quite experienced ear for cross flows tells me I'm still in danger of over reving slightly but it'd be crazy to think my ear is really that good...No way my set up is lugging dangerously, I'm essentially certain. Throttle response is just too immediate at all speeds. I'll educate my self this week.
Chuck Tribolet posted 03-24-2008 03:01 PM ET (US)
The current prop is right. It just barely gets to the red
line with just me and a few gallons on board. Jumps on plane
even with two divers and gear.
I'm going to keep the old prop as a spare, but probably not on
board in Monterey (the only place I ever get close to a rock
is at the ramps).

Chuck
jgkmmoore posted 03-24-2008 03:34 PM ET (US)
Chuck-
Get on Craigslist. Try the Seattle CL if your local one isn't heavily used. The Seattle CL 'boats' section may be the most used in the country, and there are ALWAYS props for your motor on there if it's the 13 spline type for the crossflow motors.Good luck. I think they are 13.25 X 17s. I just sold two to a guy on Mercer Island who has 'em on CL. $40 bucks or so, each.
Tohsgib posted 03-25-2008 10:21 AM ET (US)
Remember adlert that the prop could be worn or repitched if bought used and not giving you the 19". I have run all kinds on 90's and my favorite is the 13 3/8x17 SST or equiv.
adlert posted 03-25-2008 12:00 PM ET (US)
I hear you tohsgib. I really don't think that's it though in this case. I think it more likely I'll find my ear is out of whack and no better than the average ear. I've got several SS 19" props and a couple different tachs available to verify. It's been confirmed already though by you and many others so I'm assuming I'm going to be at or below the recommended WOT rpm range. I'll report back if by chance this is not the case. Then I'll have my ear bronzed.
Tohsgib posted 03-25-2008 01:48 PM ET (US)
Well theorhetically it is 4500-5500 so you are not out of line. Really depends on what loads you carry. For me I could get away with it but I still like to prop them right. You can always have it repitched for about $50 but that is an EASY prop to find used on e-bay. I have probably sold 1/2 dozen 17" OMC props in the last 5 years.
Chuck Tribolet posted 03-25-2008 05:02 PM ET (US)
One more thing about the 19": My normal load is two passengers
and 250 pounds of dive gear.
My currently inclination is to get the current BRP aluminum
prop.
And on the subject of "wearing out" -- This prop lasted me
10+ years. An SS prop would be 3x the cost of an AL prop.
I'm 58. I'd be 88 by the time the SS prop is a break-even.
If I'm still running the boat at 88, I will be pleased as
punch to loose money on this deal. And that's without
factoring in the time value of money. Put the extra 2/3's
in a good account (I don't mean passbook) and I'll bet the
interest will buy the 2018 and 2028 AND 2038 props, which
gets me to 98 years old, and the boat and motor to 50 years.
Now, I may very well get the old prop refurbed just so I have
a really good spare ready to go. Anybody know a good prop
shop in the SF bay area?

Chuck
Perry posted 03-25-2008 05:25 PM ET (US)
Going to a stainless prop is not just about cost savings. It is a better prop. Do you buy bias ply tires instead of radials for you car to save money?
EIKNIB posted 03-25-2008 05:57 PM ET (US)
Chuck,
Here is your same prop on E-Bay used, bid so far is $9.95. Has a few nicks but it looks like an easy refurbish job.
Found it while looking for a prop for my 25 Johnson.

http:/ / cgi. ebay. com/ ebaymotors/ 90-HP-Evinrude-Prop_W0QQcmdZViewIte mQQcategoryZ26456QQihZ015QQitemZ250229497412QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
rich
Tom W Clark posted 03-25-2008 07:40 PM ET (US)
Chuck,
I am still unclear why you started this thread. I thought you were seeking advice on what propeller to get as a replacement. If your current propeller is not broken, you don't need a replacement. If it is broken, then fix it or buy a new one.
Had you been seeking advice on what prop to get, I would have recommended the tried-and-true 13-1/4" x 15" Stiletto Advantage I which has proven to be a very good fit on Montauks with Johnson and Evinrude 90 HP outboards. I was tooling around SF Bay just the week before last in a Montauk with an Evinrude 90 and that very prop.
A stainless steel prop is not going to cost three times as much. I can get you the Advantage I for $250 delivered to your door. The best online price I can find for the old style OMC 14" x 17" is $125 and you may, or may not, have to pay shipping or sales tax. But you and I both know you are not going to choose a prop based on price. You can afford any prop you want and have proven to be very particular in the selection of products you buy. I'm not sure why this is different.
A stainless steel prop will afford a higher degree of safety on the water. If you are worried about a rocks strike, an aluminum prop will loose its blades very easily and could render your boat dead in the water. If this happens on the coast in big swells near shore, your life could be in danger. A stainless steel prop will bend but will hang onto its blades far longer and could afford you the emergency propulsion you might need to save your life or the lives of your passengers.
In a more realistic scenario, an aluminum prop will suffer abrasion and small nicks and bends even if one just motors their boat into the sand and mud, as might happen is one stays from the channel near Petaluma and grounds, for example. Even small pebbles, shells and sand will damage an aluminum prop where a stainless steel prop will merely loose its shine, if anything. (I speak from personal experience here ;-)
Dave Sutton posted 03-25-2008 09:02 PM ET (US)
"Now, I may very well get the old prop refurbed just so I have a really good spare ready to go. Anybody know a good prop shop in the SF bay area?"

No, but we get a weekly pick up and drop off here in Rhode Island every Weds... ;-) Send it and I'll turn it in! It'll be back in a week.
Chuck, I did the same thing with my aluminum, used it foreer until it got too ragged to even look at, and then went to stainless. What has been said is right. They are better... last longer, refurbish better (like new, actually), etc. Around rocks diving I still use the plastic Propulse though. It's a "throw away". But away from the jetties? Stainless on the engine and aluminum in the console for a spare.

Dave
EIKNIB posted 03-25-2008 10:28 PM ET (US)
Not trying to speak for Chuck but I think he was asking if anyone knew where he could find an exact replacement for his current prop, as his OMC prop was not available anymore. The one I found on E-bay looks like it would be easy to get refurbished, and probably will go cheap, but who knows. I usually can find any prop I need, new or used on e-Bay for cheap, if you have a little patience. I found a new looking stainless 25 pitch prop for my 150 Suzuki on my Bass boat for $120 delivered, and I`m bidding on a new 10X13 aluminum prop for my 25 OMC, that I hope to get for under $50 delivered. Paying retail would`nt diminish my lifestyle, but most people like a deal once in a while.
I think there are prop shops in just about every waterfront town. Propulse doesn`t make a 14X17. Probably could find an aluminum prop in a Marine boneyard also, most are in need of refurbishing. Have known people who have torn up the gears by using a stainless prop. Changing an aluminum prop in the water wouldn`t be a problem for a diver, but changing a gearcase might be.
rich
Tom W Clark posted 03-25-2008 11:18 PM ET (US)
rich,
Chuck can't find his old OMC prop anywhere because OMC does not exist anymore. It went bankrupt in 2000 and was bought by Bombardier which spun the outboard business off as Bombardier Recreation Products (BRP).
Part numbers get superseded over time. Part number 176214 was superseded by part number 177131 . Here is one possible source for this prop:
http://theoutboardwizard.bizhosting.com/ _176214_v4_alum_14_x_17_for_18_21_runabouts_.html
alfa posted 03-26-2008 01:07 AM ET (US)
Chuck,
Have you tried this site ? They have new parts and old stock.
http://www.marinepartsoutlet.com/propellers.htm
Alain
EIKNIB posted 03-26-2008 06:47 AM ET (US)
Great site Alain, I`ll probably check them out at some point.
rich
andygere posted 03-26-2008 10:05 AM ET (US)
Chuck,
I had a stainless prop repaired by a shop in Antioch that Sal recommended. They did a good job and were a LOT less expensive than what I was quoted by Pitchometer in Alameda. I mailed it to them and had it back in less than a week.
Kevins Prop Shop & Driveline Service
2504 Devpar Court Suite B
Antioch, CA 94509
Phone: (925)757-4468
Tohsgib posted 03-26-2008 10:25 AM ET (US)
If you are gonna mail it...General Propeller in Bradenton, FL. One of the largest prop shops in the world...cheap.
I have a 17" 4 blade comprop thingie for a 13 spline OMC that is new(used once) that you can have for $75 to your door. Great spare because it weighs like an ounce.
BillS posted 03-26-2008 10:56 AM ET (US)
Michigan Wheel claims that their p/n 011024 is equivalent to OMC p/n 176214.

http://www.miwheel.com/MIWheel/html/products/outboard/findprop.asp
Chuck Tribolet posted 05-01-2008 07:57 PM ET (US)
FTR, I did go with the Evinrude 13 1/4 x 17, and it works
just fine. The boat may stay on plane a little better at
low speeds.
And the old prop straightened up just fine in a vise.

Chuck

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Author	Topic: Time for a New Propeller on MONTAUK
Chuck Tribolet	posted 03-22-2008 11:07 AM ET (US) I have a 1997-ish Montauk with a 1997 Evinrude 90-HP carburetor two-stroke E90ELEUA. It came with an aluminum OMC propeller, 14x17, p/n 176214. The propeller is starting to look tired. I've been happy with it and don't see a reason to change, but OMC no longer carries this prop. Their current aluminum propeller in this range is a 13 3/4 x 17, p/n 763463 http://shop.evinrude.com/dyn_prod.php?p=763463&k=83702 Googling 176214 propeller comes up with a page of hits, not one of which I recognize except eBay. I don't see any reason for me to go to an SS prop. What to do? Chuck
Tom W Clark	posted 03-22-2008 03:42 PM ET (US) If your aluminum prop is getting "tired", that alone is one reason to go to a stainless steel propeller. Stainless steel won't wear out.
Chuck Tribolet	posted 03-22-2008 06:15 PM ET (US) Tom, it's been bounced off a few things. It pushes my boat as fast as I want to go. It hasn't hurt the drive line (see "it's been bounced off of a few things.". It's got about 900 hours on it. It's worked. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Chuck
Tom W Clark	posted 03-22-2008 11:36 PM ET (US) Then what is your question?
jimh	posted 03-23-2008 10:24 AM ET (US) Bombadier has a line of aluminum propellers which seem to give good performance with a 90-HP motor. I'd try one of those in a size that most closely matches your existing propeller. I believe this new line of Bombardier aluminum propellers was introduced about the same time as the E-TEC motors on which they seem to perform well.
Tohsgib	posted 03-24-2008 11:36 AM ET (US) Ever consider having it refurbed? Should cost about 1/2 of new.
adlert	posted 03-24-2008 11:59 AM ET (US) Chuck I'm thinking it likely you could possibly save a bit of fuel going to a 19" pitch prop. I run a 19 on my Montauk (1984 90 hp OMC) and still have more than enough get up and go for any and all normal water sports. My vote would be to purchase another prop (19" pitch new, used, stainless, aluminum, whatever...) and place your old prop in the console as a spare. I certainly do understand the benefits of and support for aluminum prop usage. Back when I regularly worked as a technician it was very clear they have their benefits. Very rarely would I see seriously damaged drivelines on engines running aluminum. Not nearly so rare for steel. Tim
Tohsgib	posted 03-24-2008 12:44 PM ET (US) 19 is OK on a 17 w/90 but the 17 is ideal, allows you to get about 5400rpm which is perfect. The 19 will drop you down to about 5k or less which is OK but not ideal being redline is 5500. This is for crossflows, nt sure about Looper 60 degree 90's but I assume the same.
adlert	posted 03-24-2008 02:57 PM ET (US) Well now I'm going to have to plug in a Tach and check that out. I certainly trust your experience Nick, I just never would have guessed I wasn't getting the full 5500 from the sounds of things and the neck snapping acceleration. My quite experienced ear for cross flows tells me I'm still in danger of over reving slightly but it'd be crazy to think my ear is really that good...No way my set up is lugging dangerously, I'm essentially certain. Throttle response is just too immediate at all speeds. I'll educate my self this week.
Chuck Tribolet	posted 03-24-2008 03:01 PM ET (US) The current prop is right. It just barely gets to the red line with just me and a few gallons on board. Jumps on plane even with two divers and gear. I'm going to keep the old prop as a spare, but probably not on board in Monterey (the only place I ever get close to a rock is at the ramps). Chuck
jgkmmoore	posted 03-24-2008 03:34 PM ET (US) Chuck- Get on Craigslist. Try the Seattle CL if your local one isn't heavily used. The Seattle CL 'boats' section may be the most used in the country, and there are ALWAYS props for your motor on there if it's the 13 spline type for the crossflow motors.Good luck. I think they are 13.25 X 17s. I just sold two to a guy on Mercer Island who has 'em on CL. $40 bucks or so, each.
Tohsgib	posted 03-25-2008 10:21 AM ET (US) Remember adlert that the prop could be worn or repitched if bought used and not giving you the 19". I have run all kinds on 90's and my favorite is the 13 3/8x17 SST or equiv.
adlert	posted 03-25-2008 12:00 PM ET (US) I hear you tohsgib. I really don't think that's it though in this case. I think it more likely I'll find my ear is out of whack and no better than the average ear. I've got several SS 19" props and a couple different tachs available to verify. It's been confirmed already though by you and many others so I'm assuming I'm going to be at or below the recommended WOT rpm range. I'll report back if by chance this is not the case. Then I'll have my ear bronzed.
Tohsgib	posted 03-25-2008 01:48 PM ET (US) Well theorhetically it is 4500-5500 so you are not out of line. Really depends on what loads you carry. For me I could get away with it but I still like to prop them right. You can always have it repitched for about $50 but that is an EASY prop to find used on e-bay. I have probably sold 1/2 dozen 17" OMC props in the last 5 years.
Chuck Tribolet	posted 03-25-2008 05:02 PM ET (US) One more thing about the 19": My normal load is two passengers and 250 pounds of dive gear. My currently inclination is to get the current BRP aluminum prop. And on the subject of "wearing out" -- This prop lasted me 10+ years. An SS prop would be 3x the cost of an AL prop. I'm 58. I'd be 88 by the time the SS prop is a break-even. If I'm still running the boat at 88, I will be pleased as punch to loose money on this deal. And that's without factoring in the time value of money. Put the extra 2/3's in a good account (I don't mean passbook) and I'll bet the interest will buy the 2018 and 2028 AND 2038 props, which gets me to 98 years old, and the boat and motor to 50 years. Now, I may very well get the old prop refurbed just so I have a really good spare ready to go. Anybody know a good prop shop in the SF bay area? Chuck
Perry	posted 03-25-2008 05:25 PM ET (US) Going to a stainless prop is not just about cost savings. It is a better prop. Do you buy bias ply tires instead of radials for you car to save money?
EIKNIB	posted 03-25-2008 05:57 PM ET (US) Chuck, Here is your same prop on E-Bay used, bid so far is $9.95. Has a few nicks but it looks like an easy refurbish job. Found it while looking for a prop for my 25 Johnson. http:/ / cgi. ebay. com/ ebaymotors/ 90-HP-Evinrude-Prop_W0QQcmdZViewIte mQQcategoryZ26456QQihZ015QQitemZ250229497412QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW rich
Tom W Clark	posted 03-25-2008 07:40 PM ET (US) Chuck, I am still unclear why you started this thread. I thought you were seeking advice on what propeller to get as a replacement. If your current propeller is not broken, you don't need a replacement. If it is broken, then fix it or buy a new one. Had you been seeking advice on what prop to get, I would have recommended the tried-and-true 13-1/4" x 15" Stiletto Advantage I which has proven to be a very good fit on Montauks with Johnson and Evinrude 90 HP outboards. I was tooling around SF Bay just the week before last in a Montauk with an Evinrude 90 and that very prop. A stainless steel prop is not going to cost three times as much. I can get you the Advantage I for $250 delivered to your door. The best online price I can find for the old style OMC 14" x 17" is $125 and you may, or may not, have to pay shipping or sales tax. But you and I both know you are not going to choose a prop based on price. You can afford any prop you want and have proven to be very particular in the selection of products you buy. I'm not sure why this is different. A stainless steel prop will afford a higher degree of safety on the water. If you are worried about a rocks strike, an aluminum prop will loose its blades very easily and could render your boat dead in the water. If this happens on the coast in big swells near shore, your life could be in danger. A stainless steel prop will bend but will hang onto its blades far longer and could afford you the emergency propulsion you might need to save your life or the lives of your passengers. In a more realistic scenario, an aluminum prop will suffer abrasion and small nicks and bends even if one just motors their boat into the sand and mud, as might happen is one stays from the channel near Petaluma and grounds, for example. Even small pebbles, shells and sand will damage an aluminum prop where a stainless steel prop will merely loose its shine, if anything. (I speak from personal experience here ;-)
Dave Sutton	posted 03-25-2008 09:02 PM ET (US) "Now, I may very well get the old prop refurbed just so I have a really good spare ready to go. Anybody know a good prop shop in the SF bay area?" No, but we get a weekly pick up and drop off here in Rhode Island every Weds... ;-) Send it and I'll turn it in! It'll be back in a week. Chuck, I did the same thing with my aluminum, used it foreer until it got too ragged to even look at, and then went to stainless. What has been said is right. They are better... last longer, refurbish better (like new, actually), etc. Around rocks diving I still use the plastic Propulse though. It's a "throw away". But away from the jetties? Stainless on the engine and aluminum in the console for a spare. Dave
EIKNIB	posted 03-25-2008 10:28 PM ET (US) Not trying to speak for Chuck but I think he was asking if anyone knew where he could find an exact replacement for his current prop, as his OMC prop was not available anymore. The one I found on E-bay looks like it would be easy to get refurbished, and probably will go cheap, but who knows. I usually can find any prop I need, new or used on e-Bay for cheap, if you have a little patience. I found a new looking stainless 25 pitch prop for my 150 Suzuki on my Bass boat for $120 delivered, and I`m bidding on a new 10X13 aluminum prop for my 25 OMC, that I hope to get for under $50 delivered. Paying retail would`nt diminish my lifestyle, but most people like a deal once in a while. I think there are prop shops in just about every waterfront town. Propulse doesn`t make a 14X17. Probably could find an aluminum prop in a Marine boneyard also, most are in need of refurbishing. Have known people who have torn up the gears by using a stainless prop. Changing an aluminum prop in the water wouldn`t be a problem for a diver, but changing a gearcase might be. rich
Tom W Clark	posted 03-25-2008 11:18 PM ET (US) rich, Chuck can't find his old OMC prop anywhere because OMC does not exist anymore. It went bankrupt in 2000 and was bought by Bombardier which spun the outboard business off as Bombardier Recreation Products (BRP). Part numbers get superseded over time. Part number 176214 was superseded by part number 177131 . Here is one possible source for this prop: http://theoutboardwizard.bizhosting.com/ _176214_v4_alum_14_x_17_for_18_21_runabouts_.html
alfa	posted 03-26-2008 01:07 AM ET (US) Chuck, Have you tried this site ? They have new parts and old stock. http://www.marinepartsoutlet.com/propellers.htm Alain
EIKNIB	posted 03-26-2008 06:47 AM ET (US) Great site Alain, I`ll probably check them out at some point. rich
andygere	posted 03-26-2008 10:05 AM ET (US) Chuck, I had a stainless prop repaired by a shop in Antioch that Sal recommended. They did a good job and were a LOT less expensive than what I was quoted by Pitchometer in Alameda. I mailed it to them and had it back in less than a week. Kevins Prop Shop & Driveline Service 2504 Devpar Court Suite B Antioch, CA 94509 Phone: (925)757-4468
Tohsgib	posted 03-26-2008 10:25 AM ET (US) If you are gonna mail it...General Propeller in Bradenton, FL. One of the largest prop shops in the world...cheap. I have a 17" 4 blade comprop thingie for a 13 spline OMC that is new(used once) that you can have for $75 to your door. Great spare because it weighs like an ounce.
BillS	posted 03-26-2008 10:56 AM ET (US) Michigan Wheel claims that their p/n 011024 is equivalent to OMC p/n 176214. http://www.miwheel.com/MIWheel/html/products/outboard/findprop.asp
Chuck Tribolet	posted 05-01-2008 07:57 PM ET (US) FTR, I did go with the Evinrude 13 1/4 x 17, and it works just fine. The boat may stay on plane a little better at low speeds. And the old prop straightened up just fine in a vise. Chuck