posted 04-23-2008 11:43 AM ET (US)        

What is the best option: Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda? Are there other choices?

posted 04-23-2008 06:50 PM ET (US)            

The E-TEC and Optimax will be your best performers and quiet, but not as quiet as the Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda and Verado.

Personally, I would buy within my budget with the best dealer in your area and buy based on available service for the brand in the area where you frequently boat.

When considering Verado, consider also that not all Mercury dealerships can repair or service the engine without voiding your warranty. This is the single biggest prohibitive factor in my opinion for the most people. Weight should not be a problem on your hull as it might be on others.

posted 04-24-2008 09:14 PM ET (US)            

I have heard it is quite and stays quite at RPM.

Weight wise the Honda is 485 vs the Evinrude's 427.

Has anyone heard the Evinrude?

Any experience with hole shots?

What is the difference between the 150 and 150 HO?

posted 04-25-2008 09:45 AM ET (US)            

I think you need to get a ride from someone (regardless of boat brand) who has an E-Tec.

Buckda published a video of Gambler's repower with twin E-Tec's. Couldn't hear the engines over the sound of the water and wind.

No offense intended but you are going to exclude one option in a 13,000 purchase based on "heard they were loud"?

While I have had two Yamaha's, when I repower, I will look at every brand/model appropriate for the boat.

CBO

posted 04-25-2008 01:49 PM ET (US)            

At cruising speeds I would not characterize the Honda 150 as being any quieter than my 2003 Johnson 150 2-stroke. One reason is that the Honda 150 has to turn higher RPM to go the same speed. Another reason is that the sound characteristic of the Honda 150, like all 4 cylinder 4-strokes, is simply different than a V6 2-stroke. The best way I would characterize the sound the Honda (or other 4-cylinder 4-strokes) at cruising speed (above 4000 RPM) is a white noise (multiple competing frequencies -- a sort of valve train versus pistons, crankshaft and exhaust) rather than a more specific "tuned" sound you get from the 2-stroke.

The E-TEC is definitely not loud. While not as quiet at idle as a 4-stroke, it is in the category of outboards where you can noticibly hear the water from the water pump telltale hitting the water. It's that quiet.

posted 04-27-2008 08:01 AM ET (US)            

The restoration was a huge job and we had Metan Marine in Boston do it. This vintage of Outrage had some real [problems] that unfortunately surfaced 3 years ago and we were finally able to address it versus getting a new one.

Regarding the engine noise being a key factor, the Admiral is the one who had to rubber seal the deal and her criteria is quite and fuel efficient.

posted 04-28-2008 11:11 AM ET (US)            

http://tinypic.com/userstuff.php?u=gM4x3vnTYxiJFAqR9ViSlA%3D%3D

If we add a new motor, it will be just under $28,000 for the complete refit, (including a new gauge, steering the throttle pack vs. $48K for a new 19 Outrage and trailer.

posted 04-28-2008 09:46 PM ET (US)            

I have a 1995 [unrecognize acronym, possibly OUTRAGE] II as well, I am on the thread next to you. And I have just gone through this very decision process. My criteria are somewhat different in that I am additionally fiscally constrained to about $9,000. I, too, wanted a quiet, fuel efficient, and a weight (about 419 lbs) as close to or less than my 1995 Merc Black Max as possible . Oh yeah, I want to go as fast as possible, too!

I must admit I had predetermined that I was going to get an E-TEC (if I could find one I could afford), but I studied the E-TEC, Opti, Suzuki DF and Yamaha four cycle anyway; I didn't look at the Honda BF150 due to weight and cost up front. I also ruled out the Verado due to its 510 heft and the requirement for rigging with the new Smartcraft guages and DTS (required) that would have exceeded my budgetm although I did find an [invented model year designator] 150 Verado for $8,000! The Yamaha, while only 467 pounds, was also beyond my budget ("spendy" as my wife would say.) I couldn't find anyone who would deal with me on a four-cycle motor and I didn't want the HPDI.

That left the Suzuki, the E-TEC and the Opti.

Still committed to the E-TEC, I found that there were few leftovers and fewer deals on the 150 (the HO is the high-output model, usually identified by the patriotic cowling, and not available in the saltwater edition). The Suzuki looked more attractive than before at a svelte 464 pounds (I could stomach the extra 45 pounds since I'm doffing an oil tank) and an $8,000 price tag. The deal breaker was not being able to take advantage of the price by having it shipped from FL to SC and rigging it myself and thus, bumping up the "drive away" cost to $10,500 or so. In every case, the dealer required it to be rigged by them and water tested by them. I did just return from a Whaler rendezvous on the Waccamaw where another CW member had a DF140 on his 1974 Outrage and it was quiet, smooth, and powerful. His boat was significantly lighter than ours at 1,900 pounds, but it was a really nice performer!

Finally, I looked at the Opti. You'll find some pretty polarized groups and opinions in the E-TEC and Opti camps on CW. I read as much as I could on both (CW (Thanks, Jim!) and Google are awesome tools) and decided they were pretty neck-and-neck with the Opti edging the E-TEC out in most (if not all) the head-to-head comparisons I read. I'll be happy to share the literature I did download. The deal maker for me was availability of GEN II Opti leftovers for $8,700-9,000, the willingness of Mercury to ship to me and let me rig it (with a 5 year warranty through June), and the ability to rig it with my current controls (I can upgrade the guage set/monitoring system to Smartcraft at a later date).

If money/rigging weren't an option, I'd really be hard-pressed not to go with the Suzuki (the new DF150); quiet, strong, fuel efficient, not too heavy for our boat. It really impressed me this weekend.

I really think weight is an issue for the [OUTRAGE] II, particularly in trailering. Wet weight must be around 2,900-3,000 pounds. What kind of trailer do you have under your boat?

posted 04-29-2008 11:55 AM ET (US)            

Thanks for the info. Very helpful.

I was thinking E-Tec because I don't have to do much in the way of changing the boat w/controls ect. vs. the Honda.

For me, I'm pretty sure I need the 25" so my weights are a little more. The Suzuki comes in @ 484, but that price sure seem right.

Assuming I can get someone up here to give me the same base price and install it, I'm good to go.

Best....

posted 05-07-2008 05:03 PM ET (US)            

let me tell you about my experience with VERADO 200 on a 210 Outrage in 2006. I darn near cranked the engine and it was ON already - it was that quiet! I was very impressed. My 90 E-TEC is not in the same league on quiet operation.

BUT

Quiet operation was not my primary parameter when repowering the boat, and I AM happy with the reduced noise of TWO 90 HP motors vs the single 150 Merc Black Max, carburated 2-stroke that was back there before.

Regarding the WEIGHT of the VERADO (and similarly, my twin 90 HP E-TECs)...you will need to plug your splashwell. This is a LOT of weight for the classic 18' transom. Were I a major fisherman, I'd consider re-building my transom to enclose it like the optional version of this hull. I'm still considering that as a future project for my 18 once I get a little fiberglass and gelcoat experience under my belt. Yes...I'm serious, although it will add even more weight to the transom area. I'm still working on this idea.

Good luck in your decision - I hardly think it is an easy one! My advice is always similar: find a dealership that you trust and you can work with...then make sure you are buying a product that can be easily serviced at other dealerships in the areas where you often boat. In Michigan, that rules certain brands out almost completely.

Good luck.

posted 05-07-2008 05:05 PM ET (US)         

CLick on the right hand print ad, then See upper right corner for the Verado price:

http://www.boatshopper.com/de/nb1147/index.asp?dealerid=nb1147

For 150 comparison information, see here:

http://www.mercurymarine.com/look_deeper/head_to_head.php?ID=57& SortBy=Title&Section=outboardChecks&fourCyl135200=3

Note that the Suzuki and E-tec are gas hogs compared to the Yamaha and Verado.

posted 05-07-2008 06:51 PM ET (US)            

They are really slick - and a great idea - but I'm not a huge fan. I guess it's similar to the Boeing vs Airbus debate for pilots (classic controls vs. fly by wire digital controls).

I do think that it is the future of controls on boats - and the next generation, and perhaps even the current ones, will get used to them and accept them easily. I like the solid feel of my classic controls, which are easy to use and provide a reassuring sensory alert when I'm in moving through neutral into and out of gear. The DTS equipped boat I described above did not have this. Again, I almost threw passengers out by charging right through the gear selection and straight into gear. I can see this as being difficult to adjust in heavy seas on a smaller boat like the 19' Outrage.

Again - don't get me wrong - go with what you want. This is a very slick system that the engineers at Mercury developed - but this is about your comfort, not someone else's idea of what will work for you, or what they wish they had, or are planning to get for their boat.

Finally - to restate the advice early on and just above; confirm that you have a VERADO certified maintenance facility in your area and that you like that dealership...otherwise, it may be like owning a Lotus in Nebraska. Fun to drive, a dream to own and a pain in the behind to find service.

Good luck.

posted 05-07-2008 06:55 PM ET (US)            

That seems like a "deal".

I remember a thread a while back about the change to engines being produced without a model year designation. I also vaguely remember a thread about significant improvements to the Verado engines.

Could these be leftover, earlier, non-current production engines? That is, it sounds like a deal because we're thinking brand spanking new from the production floor, when in fact the engines are technologically outdated compared to their new production Verado brothers?

posted 05-07-2008 08:10 PM ET (US)            

DTS adds considerable complexity to the installation. There is a control computer associated with the DTS controls. This computer interprets the input from the mechanical levers of the control surface, and turns them into digital signals to be sent to the electrical devices in the motor. To diagram what goes on in DTS you have:

Mechanical controls -->Mechanical movement-->Electrical sensors-->

Conversion to digital data--> Data processing--> Data communications-->

Conversion to mechanical movement-->linkage to mechanical controls.

Where DTS can really shine is when you have dual control stations. The second station can be easily integrated. Also, DTS can add value with twin engine or triple engine or quadruple engine installations. With DTS you can implement features in the data processing realm which will improve the operation of multiple engines. For example, you can automatically synchronize the engine speed among multiple engines.

When you have a single engine boat, DTS does not add a great deal of value. The value added is limited to two areas: you can have really feather light touch controls, because they are just electrical sensors; and you can have some intelligence built into the control surface to help prevent really stupid control input from causing damage to the engine. An example of the latter is preventing a high speed shift from forward to reverse from occurring. (Actually, I don't really know for a fact that such intelligence has been built into DTS, I am just giving Mercury the benefit of my assumption that they had the intelligence to do that sort of thing. I have never seen any literature which explicitly states that such control supervision has been implemented by Mercury.)

There is no argument that DTS provides a nice control for an engine, but in a single engine installation I do not think that DTS provides any huge advantage over conventional direct mechanical controls. After all, motors have been controlled by direct mechanical linkage for one hundred years, and there really has not been an enormous problem with that approach.

posted 05-10-2008 08:47 AM ET (US)            

"Why would you want to spend 11K on a Suzuki or Etec, with old fashioned standard controls and old fashioned gauges, when you can get a Supercharged Verado 150, with DTS AND Smartcraft for the same price (and no sales tax) installed?"

In terms of the instrumentation, we have been over this ground a million times. At issue here is Mercury SmartCraft compared to Evinrude I-Command. As far as I can tell, there is no advantage whatsoever to SmartCraft instrumentation, and, if one looks at this with an open mind, there is a distinct disadvantage to SmartCraft--it is proprietary to Mercury and has not been supported by other vendors.

I-Command, on the other hand, is a certified NMEA-2000 system. NMEA-2000 is a very widely accepted vessel instrumentation network which has shown itself to be interoperable among dozens of vendors. E-TEC motors are certified NMEA-2000 devices and can be incorporated into vessel networks with other NMEA-2000 devices.