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Author Topic:   Another Repower - Outrage 21

tmann45 posted 07-26-2008 08:59 PM ET (US)
Ok, time to repower due to blown power head. Had been running at 4200 rpm about an hour and 45 minutes when it went to sounding like someone was shaking a box of rocks and seized in 3-seconds. It does turn over now that it has cooled off. Anyone need parts? Two weeks prior to this I purchased 10-gallons of Premium Plus oil because it was on sale, a week later it was on sale for $4 less than I paid; now I don’t even need it. Anyone need Quicksilver oil? Anyone need a set of new BU9H sparkplugs? And bring your gas cans, I have 28 gallons of premix in the tank with Stabil!
Original motor and performance:
1998 Mercury 200XL Offshore (carbureted)
17” Vengance or 18” Enertia, both ran about same performance wise
Hole shot – good
WOT 50 mph at 5700 rpm running light
Economy – 3.5 mpg between 3800 and 4400 rpm, averaged 2.7 mpg last 70 hours, mpg drops off significantly outside of stated rpm range
Engine weight – 400 lbs
Boat is 1996 Outrage 21, rated for 300 hp, published hull weight is 2500 lbs, fully loaded weight is about 5000 lbs (115 gal fuel, 15 gal water, 35 gal livewell, persons and gear).
I would like to maintain the same performance with a new engine. Basically the new 2-strokes are about 100-125 lbs heavier and the 4-strokes are 200-250 lbs heavier than the original motor.
How much horsepower should I repower with?
Technical opinions about 2-stroke versus 4-stroke are welcome, for example, hole shot, cruising speed (I would like to have a wider cruising speed range for days it gets rough in the gulf or out running thunder storms) and noise. I have already looked at the burning oil versus changing oil economics, burning oil cost $250-350 more than changing depending on gas oil ratio (anyone know what the ratio is on a new hpdi 2-stroke), not counting labor (I can change oil). Don’t need to review the environmental aspects, most are 3-star compliant. Don’t need to review foreign versus domestic, we just did that one.
Boat lives in straps on a lift, so there is some advantage to burning oil, but changing oil can be managed.
I did a test ride in a Bass Cat with a 275 Verado yesterday and was impressed with the quietness of a 4-stroke. Anyone have a noise comparison to the OptiMax, Yamaha (4-stroke only), Suzuki, Honda or E-Tec?

phatwhaler posted 07-27-2008 02:02 AM ET (US)
The good news is that your boat can handle a new heavy four stroke. I think a 250 Yamaha 4S, or a Verado would fit back there no problem. I have seen a 21 Outrage with twin 150's.
Also I highly doubt you were getting 3.5 mpg with a 2 stroke Mercury 200HP. I have a 150 EFI on a 1996 20 Outrage and the best I can get is about 2.8 according to my Navman fuel computer.
If you want some performance data I would look here.
http://www.whaler.com/rec/pdfs/performance/10.pdf
It should be pretty close to your boat.
tmann45 posted 07-27-2008 07:50 AM ET (US)

quote:
Also I highly doubt you were getting 3.5 mpg with a 2 stroke Mercury 200HP.
Should have noted that was also running light, one person, no gear and 1/4 fuel (25 gallons) fuel, according to calibrated FloScan and GPS. Actual calculated maximum was 3.62 mpg at 4200 rpm.
Thanks for the comments.
phatwhaler posted 07-27-2008 10:43 AM ET (US)
I still have a hard time believing you're getting 3.6 with a 2 smoke.
Maybe your GPS is on Kilometers?

tmann45 posted 07-27-2008 03:59 PM ET (US)
If it were reading in KPH, that would give slip numbers in the 40% range (max speed 31 mph?). But if my tach was off by 1600 rpm and the GPS was reading in KPH, then everything would fit.
Got any answers to my posted question?

quote:
How much horsepower should I repower with?

Tom W Clark posted 07-27-2008 04:33 PM ET (US)
Anybody's 225 HP outboard will equal or exceed the performance of your former outboard. Take your pick
Tohsgib posted 07-28-2008 10:43 AM ET (US)
Why not a Suzuki 300?
Peter posted 07-28-2008 11:20 AM ET (US)
"Anybody's 225 HP outboard will equal or exceed the performance of your former outboard"
The Yamaha F225 might be the lone exception.
Tohsgib posted 07-28-2008 11:53 AM ET (US)
Actually a 4hp would exceed the performance of his current outboard ;)
PS..When I had 25gals of premix left over I ran 5gals in my car at each fillup. Run it to almost empty, put in 5 gals then top it off with another 15gals or so and you won't even know you did it. Great in the lawnmower, etc as well.
gss036 posted 07-28-2008 01:43 PM ET (US)
I just repowered w/a 225 Honda, but have not run enough to get an idea of GPH. I was running a 200 hp Merc 2 stroke carbed and figured cruise at 2 miles per gal and it seemed fairly close. The next time I go out I will top off my tank again and maybe get an idea since I now have only 12.5 hrs on the motor.
I found that the Honda is probably a little slower getting out of the hole, but has a great power band for acceleration once you are up and planning. I may get out one more time this week, if so, I will post again. I will be following this thread for results.
tmann45 posted 07-29-2008 07:10 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the input and chuckles...

quote:
The Yamaha F225 might be the lone exception.
Actually a 4hp would exceed the performance of his current outboard ;)
And yes, I thought I would burn it in the truck 5-gallons at a time, like I did with 35 gallons of stale gas a few years back, just like you said bigshoT.
Tom

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Author	Topic: Another Repower - Outrage 21
tmann45	posted 07-26-2008 08:59 PM ET (US) Ok, time to repower due to blown power head. Had been running at 4200 rpm about an hour and 45 minutes when it went to sounding like someone was shaking a box of rocks and seized in 3-seconds. It does turn over now that it has cooled off. Anyone need parts? Two weeks prior to this I purchased 10-gallons of Premium Plus oil because it was on sale, a week later it was on sale for $4 less than I paid; now I don’t even need it. Anyone need Quicksilver oil? Anyone need a set of new BU9H sparkplugs? And bring your gas cans, I have 28 gallons of premix in the tank with Stabil! Original motor and performance: 1998 Mercury 200XL Offshore (carbureted) 17” Vengance or 18” Enertia, both ran about same performance wise Hole shot – good WOT 50 mph at 5700 rpm running light Economy – 3.5 mpg between 3800 and 4400 rpm, averaged 2.7 mpg last 70 hours, mpg drops off significantly outside of stated rpm range Engine weight – 400 lbs Boat is 1996 Outrage 21, rated for 300 hp, published hull weight is 2500 lbs, fully loaded weight is about 5000 lbs (115 gal fuel, 15 gal water, 35 gal livewell, persons and gear). I would like to maintain the same performance with a new engine. Basically the new 2-strokes are about 100-125 lbs heavier and the 4-strokes are 200-250 lbs heavier than the original motor. How much horsepower should I repower with? Technical opinions about 2-stroke versus 4-stroke are welcome, for example, hole shot, cruising speed (I would like to have a wider cruising speed range for days it gets rough in the gulf or out running thunder storms) and noise. I have already looked at the burning oil versus changing oil economics, burning oil cost $250-350 more than changing depending on gas oil ratio (anyone know what the ratio is on a new hpdi 2-stroke), not counting labor (I can change oil). Don’t need to review the environmental aspects, most are 3-star compliant. Don’t need to review foreign versus domestic, we just did that one. Boat lives in straps on a lift, so there is some advantage to burning oil, but changing oil can be managed. I did a test ride in a Bass Cat with a 275 Verado yesterday and was impressed with the quietness of a 4-stroke. Anyone have a noise comparison to the OptiMax, Yamaha (4-stroke only), Suzuki, Honda or E-Tec?
phatwhaler	posted 07-27-2008 02:02 AM ET (US) The good news is that your boat can handle a new heavy four stroke. I think a 250 Yamaha 4S, or a Verado would fit back there no problem. I have seen a 21 Outrage with twin 150's. Also I highly doubt you were getting 3.5 mpg with a 2 stroke Mercury 200HP. I have a 150 EFI on a 1996 20 Outrage and the best I can get is about 2.8 according to my Navman fuel computer. If you want some performance data I would look here. http://www.whaler.com/rec/pdfs/performance/10.pdf It should be pretty close to your boat.
tmann45	posted 07-27-2008 07:50 AM ET (US) quote: Also I highly doubt you were getting 3.5 mpg with a 2 stroke Mercury 200HP. Should have noted that was also running light, one person, no gear and 1/4 fuel (25 gallons) fuel, according to calibrated FloScan and GPS. Actual calculated maximum was 3.62 mpg at 4200 rpm. Thanks for the comments.
phatwhaler	posted 07-27-2008 10:43 AM ET (US) I still have a hard time believing you're getting 3.6 with a 2 smoke. Maybe your GPS is on Kilometers?
tmann45	posted 07-27-2008 03:59 PM ET (US) If it were reading in KPH, that would give slip numbers in the 40% range (max speed 31 mph?). But if my tach was off by 1600 rpm and the GPS was reading in KPH, then everything would fit. Got any answers to my posted question? quote: How much horsepower should I repower with?
Tom W Clark	posted 07-27-2008 04:33 PM ET (US) Anybody's 225 HP outboard will equal or exceed the performance of your former outboard. Take your pick
Tohsgib	posted 07-28-2008 10:43 AM ET (US) Why not a Suzuki 300?
Peter	posted 07-28-2008 11:20 AM ET (US) "Anybody's 225 HP outboard will equal or exceed the performance of your former outboard" The Yamaha F225 might be the lone exception.
Tohsgib	posted 07-28-2008 11:53 AM ET (US) Actually a 4hp would exceed the performance of his current outboard ;) PS..When I had 25gals of premix left over I ran 5gals in my car at each fillup. Run it to almost empty, put in 5 gals then top it off with another 15gals or so and you won't even know you did it. Great in the lawnmower, etc as well.
gss036	posted 07-28-2008 01:43 PM ET (US) I just repowered w/a 225 Honda, but have not run enough to get an idea of GPH. I was running a 200 hp Merc 2 stroke carbed and figured cruise at 2 miles per gal and it seemed fairly close. The next time I go out I will top off my tank again and maybe get an idea since I now have only 12.5 hrs on the motor. I found that the Honda is probably a little slower getting out of the hole, but has a great power band for acceleration once you are up and planning. I may get out one more time this week, if so, I will post again. I will be following this thread for results.
tmann45	posted 07-29-2008 07:10 PM ET (US) Thanks for the input and chuckles... quote: The Yamaha F225 might be the lone exception. Actually a 4hp would exceed the performance of his current outboard ;) And yes, I thought I would burn it in the truck 5-gallons at a time, like I did with 35 gallons of stale gas a few years back, just like you said bigshoT. Tom