posted 09-25-2008 01:07 PM ET (US)        

I am the original owner of a PRISTINE 1985 Outrage 18. Boat was fully restored in 2004 and we have been running an '04 Yamaha 150 HPDI 2-stroke with a top-speed of 47 MPH on GPS.

The Yamaha has been 100% FLAWLESS from day one but.....well; you know how it goes....:)

Top speed is my main priority on this hull.

The 150, 175, and 200 E-Tecs all weigh the same 433 lbs, just a few pounds more than the current Yamaha 150 I have now. So I can't see the 200HP's 433lb weight being an issue.

I saw an Outrage 20 on this site that was turning 60 MPH with an older Evinrude 200hp. My boat weighs about 700lbs LESS.

I am hoping for AT LEAST 60 MPH. If a 2,000 lb hull with an older Evinrude 200 is turning 60 MPH, I am confident my 1250-lb 18-footer will do better than 60+ with an E-TEC 200hp bolted-on the transom ;)

I am about to pull the trigger on a 2009 25-inch 200hp E-TEC weighing 433 lbs.

Questions:

Do you think the 200 is a bad idea? Over-powered? Should I stick with the 175?

I am very interested in hearing your opinions on weight, speed, jack-plates, trim tabs(?), prop recommendations, etc.

I have 2 other classic whalers (1985 Montauk 17/1979 Sport 13) and 3 classic Donzis (16,18,22) also on the dock, but this boat is my pride and joy!! It needs to be FAST.

Thanking you all in advance!! I look forward to your comments and insight.

[IMG]http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee297/donzi22/CIMG1560.jpg[/IMG]

posted 09-25-2008 01:17 PM ET (US)            

Second, your hull does NOT weigh 1250 lbs...it probably weighs more like 1500-1600 lbs.

You can probably expect 55 MPH; with the right prop you'll probably see more like 57...but it would be a nice project and I'd love it if you proved me wrong!

My 18' Outrage with twin 90's hasn't seen 55 except on the highway...

posted 09-25-2008 01:19 PM ET (US)            

Where are you in the UP?

We spend a lot of time up there in the summer.

We're having a fall rendezvous October 4th at Mullet Lake - just 1/2 hour across the bridge in the lower peninsula - you are welcome to attend (see the trips and rendezvous section).

posted 09-25-2008 01:40 PM ET (US)            

If your boat currently goes 47 MPH with the 150, it will not get anywhere near 60 MPH with a 200. This forecast is based on the following formula:

((New HP/Old HP 150)^ 1/2) x Actual Old Speed = Predicted New Speed

Plugging in we get

((200/150) ^ 1/2) x 47 MPH = 54.2 MPH.

posted 09-25-2008 01:59 PM ET (US)            

Thanks for fixing my link! and the nice comments.

The figures on Sal's boat I found on this site-- so who knows?...sounded a little fast to me also.

The 1250 weight figure I also got from this site, and I have no idea.

We are in the Les Cheneaux Islands area, but live in California off-season. Thanks for the invite I am sorry to miss it!!

55MPH would be a DREAM, I would be THRILLED!!

posted 09-25-2008 02:01 PM ET (US)            

yes it was Sal's boat I was referring to. I have zero experience in setting up jack-plates/props, etc.

thats why I am here!!

Thanks.....ANYTHING over 50 would be a gift!

posted 09-25-2008 02:03 PM ET (US)            

I have never used a jack-plate...

Thanks!

posted 09-25-2008 03:41 PM ET (US)            

I grew up spending my summers on Hill Island - so I know the area very well. We still have friends who own on Snows Channel and I spend a few weekends up there each summer to this day.

We'll be up there next summer over the 4th and the following week with extended family. We no longer own property, but will be renting in Hessel.

Let me know if you plan to be up there around that time and I'll buy you a beer!

I recommend a Rite-Hite manual jackplate - www.rmind.com . It can be adjusted on the water for height and speed testing. I have my E-TEC's mounted to two of these and love them.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v219/Buckda/Whaler%20Central%20Photos/ ?action=view¤t=INACTION.jpg

For details of the installation, see:
http://www.continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage81.html

posted 09-25-2008 06:02 PM ET (US)         

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v429/lgoltz/Outrage%2018/?action=view& current=Scan0037.jpg .

You might also want to review this article:

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/standardTransomBracket.html .

Secondly, I know someone with a Yamaha 150 HPDI and he gets a solid 50 on an equally mint 18 Outrage like yours. So you might want to first be sure your engine is mounted up 1 - 1/2" (third set of holes out of five) and running a fast prop like a Merc Laser II or Tempest Plus.

Thirdly, if you really want to go fast, you want to go BLACK. HP for HP, there isn't an E-tec made that will run with an Optimax or Merc EFI, or get better fuel economy. Merc makes a lightweight 2.5 liter 175 ProXS Optimax (close to a 200 HP engine) that will easily run with the small bore Evinrude 200, or better. They cost about $11,700. If you want a really strong 200, get the plain old vanilla 200 Opti, but it's a big 3.0 liter block and FAST, and lighter in weight than the big bore Evinrude HO's.

posted 09-25-2008 06:12 PM ET (US)            

Now I know why I recognized that photo. Your boat is exiting or traversing the mouth of Wilderness Bay near Long Island.

I almost bought some property in that bay a few years back....

http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tab=wl

posted 09-27-2008 01:14 PM ET (US)            

Do the 200, you will get the 175 and regret it later on, and I am also believe the simple fact that some people just "WANT" the higher HP motor even when a lower one will do the job.

posted 09-30-2008 11:43 AM ET (US)            

It sounds like your primary goal is to make your Outrage 18 go fast. If you "illegally" overpower it and get into a boating accident make sure your insurance company will spend millions to try and defend you.

The party pooper,

posted 09-30-2008 11:44 AM ET (US)            

Jack that puppy up about 3 inches on a 10 inch setback and let her rip!

posted 09-30-2008 06:50 PM ET (US)            

I wish I had that kind of money to waste, more importantly I wish the economy as a whole had that kind of money to waste!

By the way our boat which is clearly "over powered" is fully insured with replacement value of $70k with the insurance company knowing full well that the boat has a 250 on it, and the local police and coast guard often hang out at the house and pull along side the boat to chat it up about the boat and things in general, so far no handcuffs have come out yet.

If they were going to lock people up locally for over powered boats they would sure keep themselves busy as plenty of 21 and 22s have 300hp motors hanging off the back of them doing 90+ mph.

posted 09-30-2008 08:28 PM ET (US)            

Thanks ALL for the replies!!

Dave: yes thats wilderness...funny thing they JUST replaced that block-house you see in the pic...i watched them working it all last week.

i heard they got a grant for it from the state...(?)

but GOOD EYE!!

dealer is also a good friend and he said i gotta sign some release---who cares!?!? insurance will be notified.

I am assuming 60 is out of the question but am ordering the 200 after all. 25-inch shaft.

the motor will be custom-painted (with a 150 decal as well;)....and I am good friends with the sheriff and local coasties......they tend to not hassle me.

i hear you guys..tossing a 165-hr '04 YAMI for no reason?!?!?..the YAMI will go on another hull. we have a lot of projects always going on.

like i said the YAMI has been FLAWLESS--i mean NOT A HICCUP--but it has about the worst controls ever put on a boat...(if you have driven one--you know what i mean)

I am flirting with a motorized jack-plate (40 lbs).....from the bass-boat crowd:

click here to see it: http://www.bobsmachine.com/

thoughts?

you guys are great THANK YOU ALL!!!

posted 10-01-2008 11:30 AM ET (US)            

I think that your boat will be a rocket with the 200 HP E-TEC. You may also want to consider adding trim-tabs to help stabilize the boat at the top speeds. I would imagine you'll get some listing due to the torque.

posted 10-01-2008 03:27 PM ET (US)            

excuse the ignorance -im here to learn :)

I have them on all the donzis but i dont know exactly what they do.....

Dave: 60mph seems pretty fast after this conversation....55 would be a dream like i said...

I will call bobs machine shop and find out about their jack-plates...i know the off-set is not much maybe 4 inches....what i like is the motorized lift!!

thanks again!

posted 10-01-2008 04:20 PM ET (US)            

Like Nick says - the water pressure gauge does exactly that: it tells you what the water pressure is in the cooling system for your motor. The manual will have a specified range for your motor at different operating RPM's...but when you jack a motor up too high, it "aspirates" air with the water and the water pressure drops - resulting in reduced capacity to cool the powerhead...and on the E-TEC, the critical electrical components of the motor as well. Everything on a marine engine is cooled by "raw water"...not coolant, like in an auto.

Certain motors have re-designed gearcases for special applications such as very high jackplate installations. Those gearcases are designed with the water intake grates in a lower position on the gearcase so that you can run the engine much higher (inches higher) and still have a "clean" stream of cooling water being inducted into the engine cooling system. In some situations, the gearcase and propeller are literally about half way out of the water, and teh prop (known as a surface-piercing prop) is actually cleaving the water and air boundary (this for super high-speed applications).

On a Whaler, generally, you will find a high performance prop on a fast rig such as yours where the design allows the prop to be effective in "shallower" water - i.e. a higher gearcase installation/application.

In very broad terms and experiences, SS Props have a higher tolerance for running shallow than do aluminum props - but even so, it has more to do with the design than the material.

When you're testing propellers once you get the new E-TEC installed, you will want to experiment with a variety of props at a variety of height settings. In that process, a water pressure gauge will be very helpful in determining just "how high" you can safely go - although I suspect that you will see a reduced overall performance when you approach an "unsafe" height as it applies to cooling capabilities.

Generally speaking, the recommendations here have been to mount the motor so that the flat anti-ventilation plate on the motor, when trimmed normally, is about 2-5 inches ABOVE the bottom of the transom - if you extended a plane from the keel at the transom back the distance to being directly under the motor, you want that plate to be above that plane.

Exactly how high above the plane will be best determined by testing and will vary with what prop you're running.

Your best bet is to sit down with the dealer, and get him to give you a week with several different props...and then you get an Internet connection, talk with Tom W. Clark here and play out on the water. Report back your results and we'll help you dial her in for optimal performance.

Dave

posted 10-01-2008 04:46 PM ET (US)            

thanks so much guys!!

today i ordered the 200 and a 115 for my 1985 montauk 17......should be peas in a pod!

HOW DO I POST PICS SO THEY ARE VISBLE HERE!??

I have a ton of great shots of my boats.....cant seem to make the photbucket links "work"

Thanks Dave and everybody for your generous help!!

DAVE: i have pics of the new block house on long island.....interesting .

leave your email or email me donzi22@gmail.com

thanks again ALL!!

posted 10-01-2008 04:47 PM ET (US)            

i HATE them on my donzis and formula...probably because I am not using them correctly :(

posted 10-01-2008 05:00 PM ET (US)            

Link help is here:

posted 10-01-2008 05:06 PM ET (US)            

i do not want trim tabs!!.....

thanks TOM i will try to figure out the link situation!!

I have 4 whalers on the dock 3 are classic and I think members would enjoy seeing them.

THANKS!

posted 10-01-2008 05:44 PM ET (US)            

I respectfully disagree with Tom on the tabs, but it makes no difference - if you hate 'em, then don't put them on.

...but in that case, I WILL race you to Mackinac Island and back...on a standard day for lake Huron and the Straights.

My e-mail address is visible by clicking on the e-mail icon in the blue field next to my username.

I choose not to post it directly to the page due to the likelihood that it will then be picked up by a program crawling the 'Net and increase the spam load...I have enough offers for herbal Viagra as it is.

I'd love to see the pictures of the new blockhouse...did they also replace the one that is on Cube point on Marquette? It's hidden in the trees a bit...I don't know if the Brown family maintains that or not...it's on their property...and appears in better condition than the one on Long Island.

A friend of mine just repowered his 17' Montauk with a 115 E-TEC this spring and loves it. He and I spent a week on Lake Nipigon in Canada this spring and the 115 performed extremely well on a very loaded boat. He's happy. I've driven it - it's like driving a Lotus - 4 cylinders, very pleasing sound and she rides on rails.

But the sound doesn't compare to the twin howling of my 90's at WOT.

Dave

posted 10-01-2008 06:27 PM ET (US)            

I was at the Brown cottage last week...block house is there but still hidden in trees......really cool!!

it has GUN TURRETS!! yes im serious!

email sent.

I will PASS on the tabs.....i hate 'em!!

good to hear about the 115...i ordered that today as well.

what kind of speed is he seeing on the 17 montauk w 115 etec?

posted 10-01-2008 06:58 PM ET (US)            

Where the boat really shines is "oomph" that will put the passengers on their arse in a heartbeat throughout the entire powerband - at any speed. It's really pretty incredible.