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Author Topic:   Repower 1996 Dauntless 15

Steve50 posted 08-21-2009 08:16 PM ET (US)
I have a 1996 Dauntless which was fitted from new with a Johnson 70hp 2 stroke. I want to fit a new 4 stroke mainly because I want lower noise levels plus all the other 4 stroke advantages, but I don't want to loose the performance. Any suggestions as to what size motor I should get?
Mambo Minnow posted 08-22-2009 11:42 AM ET (US)
I previously owned same model. That boat model is very stern heavy already with an original 2 stroke. I would recommend an E-TEC 75HP vice a four stroke for repower. I have seen a Honda 50 HP four stroke repower, so you will lose alot of horsepower to weight ratio if you go with the four stroke.
TheWhalerStore posted 08-26-2009 03:23 AM ET (US)
The Dauntless line has specific weight requirements so the scuppers are not underwater at rest.
As far as the E-Tec motors go,I agree. Buy one. You will not be unhappy with it.
Did you know that the E-Tec line has LOWER emissions than EVERY 4 stroke in its class?
Evinrude is the only manufacturer to achieve carb 3 ratings on its ENTIRE line of motors,and also the EU (European Union)rating for overseas usage.
4 strokes are way over hyped and the consumer bought into the hype.

G.
number9 posted 08-26-2009 03:37 AM ET (US)
TheWhalerStore,
Unable to find the specific weight requirements you mentioned. Would you please share those? Thanks.
TheWhalerStore posted 08-26-2009 04:03 AM ET (US)
Call Chuck Bennett at Whaler. Ask him for the engineering specs. I dont think they readily published the data until 1999. As I recall,I think it might be 310 LBS,but not sure.
Boston Whaler Phone Number 386.428.0057
G.
TheWhalerStore posted 08-26-2009 04:09 AM ET (US)
Found the specs online for the 16 Dauntless as follows. It just confirms that they have them,but did not publish all the model years until after people started to repower boats with heavier 4 stroke motors. That is when it became more important.
Boston Whaler 160 Dauntless
• LOA: 16' 3" (4.95 m)
• Beam: 7' 1" (2.15 m)
• Draft: 11" (.27 m)
• Weight (dry, no engine): 1500 lbs (680 kg)
• Maximum Weight: 1700 lbs (771 kg)
• Swamped Capacity: 4200 lbs (1905 kg)
• Persons Capacity: 6
• Maximum HP: 115 hp (85 kw)
• Minimum HP: 50 hp (37 kw)
• Maximum Engine Weight: 410 lbs (185 kg)
• Transom Height: 20" (.50 m)
• Fuel Capacity: 45 gal (170 L)
• Bridge Clearance: 4' 9" (1.44 m)
Perry posted 08-26-2009 01:16 PM ET (US)

quote:
Did you know that the E-Tec line has LOWER emissions than EVERY 4 stroke in its class?
WhalerStore, do you know you are full of crap? Do some reasearch before you spread your misinformation.
Read this thread:
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/018435.html

And this EPA data, scroll down to Marine Spark-Ignition Engine Certification Data:
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/certdata.htm
Your lies continue:

quote:
Evinrude is the only manufacturer to achieve carb 3 ratings on its ENTIRE line of motors
So does Honda Marine.
TheWhalerStore posted 08-26-2009 02:05 PM ET (US)
Obviously you have not contacted Boston Whaler before you decide to bring drama here.
Best wishes to you. Take an Advil please.
TheWhalerStore posted 08-26-2009 02:07 PM ET (US)
This was the statement with key words being "and"
"Evinrude is the only manufacturer to achieve carb 3 ratings on its ENTIRE line of motors, and also the EU (European Union)rating for overseas usage."
Perry posted 08-26-2009 02:38 PM ET (US)
Dude, all outboard manufacturers meet the EU emissions standards, they were required to by 2006 for 4 stoke and 2007 for 2 strokes. Carb 3 star is more stringent than the EU standard.
I am glad you like the ETEC, they are fine motors. Just do some research before you say that a particular product is the BEST in the WORLD.
Steve50 posted 08-27-2009 08:43 PM ET (US)
I appreciate all the inputs and different opinions. Here is my situation. I spend a lot of time going slowly around marinas and small rivers so I am set on a 4 stroke for the low noise level, but I also need reasonable performance out in the bay. I think my Dauntless 15 is quite a bit smaller than the 16. The plate on the boat rates max hp at 75, I like the look and reputation of Yamaha, but an F75 weighs 369lb which I am guessing will be too heavy, so the next one down is the F60 at 237lb which I assume is about the same weight as the 70hp 2 stroke I already have. The Montauk 150 comes new with a 60hp 4 stroke, so I assume I would get similar performance i.e. around 35 mph WOT, or will the different hull design change that?
fishgutz posted 08-27-2009 09:42 PM ET (US)
Steve, I think the 60 would be a good choice. The newer 150 Whalers use the Mercury with the Bigfoot gearcase so gearing will be a little different. A F60 Yamaha will probably work great. Check their performance reports on the Yamaha website for other similar boats with a F60. The Yamaha T60 is similar to the Merc Bigfoot. Your boat weighs in at about 850 pounds if I'm not mistaken.
Here is some archived info on your boat. It was later rated at 60 horsepower so you should be good. http://web.archive.org/web/19990128161616/www.whaler.com/recreation/ dauntless/dauntless.15.html
Steve50 posted 08-27-2009 11:39 PM ET (US)
Good input - Thanks (link is very useful). I am still trying to get my head around the difference between the F60 and T60 I assume its higher torque which is not specified on the Yamaha web site.
Steve50 posted 08-27-2009 11:43 PM ET (US)
Looking at the Mercury website the only difference I see is the Gear Ration on the big foot which I assume allows a bigger prop, so I guess faster out of the hole?
Bill B posted 08-28-2009 12:47 AM ET (US)
Specs from 1994 catalog for 15 dauntless
15'1' length
6'4" beam
730 lbs boat weight
1,300 max weight capacity, boat, motor, gear and people
70hp max capacity
30hp min
20" shaft length
Specs from 1998 catalog for 15 dauntless
15'1" length
6'4" beam
850 lbs boat weight (+130lbs from 1994 model)
1,200 lbs max weight capacity (- 1,000 lbs from 1994 model)
75hp max capacity (+5hp from 1994)
30hp min
20" shaft length
Still Looking for my 1996 catalog.
This model did not have a fixed fuel tank so that is not the weight difference.
Yes the scuppers leaked with a 75 2 stroke merc on back with a person at the stern, but the boat really moved.
I am am Mercury guy from the word go. My new Opti Max 175 on my 210 Outrage is the best, super smooth, super quiet, super fast, great economy, no smoke.
Interesting that the 94 catalog had only OMC (evinrude/johnson) one Yamaha and zero Mercury power. 1998, all Mercury.
Tohsgib posted 08-28-2009 12:47 PM ET (US)
Not interesting...brunswick bought Whaler in 96 or 97.
Mambo Minnow posted 08-29-2009 11:37 AM ET (US)
I saw a Dauntless 15 in Annapolis harbor basin Wednesday night with a Yamaha 60 four stroke repowered on the back. The boat looked trimmed nicely and no water on the deck in the stern.
number9 posted 08-29-2009 02:42 PM ET (US)
Steve50,
The gear ratio on the T60 does differ from the F60, the whole gear case is larger and takes the same props as the 75-115. I have a T50, love it and like being able to swing a larger diameter prop. If in your shoes would be looking for a Yamaha T60 or E-Tec 60 which have similar gear ratios rather than a China built Mercury 60 Big Foot.
gschrimp posted 09-07-2009 09:10 PM ET (US)
Steve.
I have a 1996 Dauntless 15' with a Yamaha P75.
gschrimp posted 09-07-2009 10:10 PM ET (US)
Sorry for the 2nd post Steve but I accidentally hit the Submit Reply button.
As the owner of a 1996 15' Dauntless I hopefully can provide you with some information you will find helpful.
I have a 1998 Yamaha P75 as power. The P75 will push the boat along at a bit over 40MPH turning a 3-bladed 17 pitch SS prop at 5100RPM. This speed is obtained fully loaded which includes the 15 gallon inboard fuel tank, battery, two coolers, tools, gear, and other accessories along with 400 pounds of passengers. The motor which weighs in at about 265 pounds is equipped with a SS Cobra hydrofoil which made an incredible difference in hole shot, handling, and reducing porpoising. Fuel economy with that prop is slightly over 5 MPG.
Additionally, I have a 4 blade Powertech 13 pitch SS prop we use for mostly for skiing and sometimes for cruising on Lake Michigan. With that prop we obtain a top speed of slighly over 35MPH at 4500RPM and fuel economy of slightly over 4MPG under the same load conditions.
Interestingly enough there is little difference in cruising speed at 3300RPM's. The variance is about 1MPH with the 4 blade averaging a bit over 21MPH and the 3 blade 22MPH.
When I purchased the boat it had the same power yours did, a 70HP Johnson. As I did not like the Johnson to start with I put the Yamaha power on before ever turning the key.
At the time I purchased the boat I also wanted a 4-stroker. The only problem was as others have alluded to was the weight which would add nearly 100 pounds at the transom.
My dealers advised I not go with the 75HP 4 -stroke and I am very happy I followed his advice. When there are just two of us in the boat (wife and I) and I am sitting in the helm seat and she moves to the transom to jump in off the small swim platform water comes in through the scuppers. Her weight is about 140 pounds. Hence, I don't believe one would ever want to go over 300 pounds at the transom.
Secondly, I saw the URL posted by Fishgutz by Whaler regarding a rating of 60 HP for the 15' Dauntless. I find this kind of amusing as on my capacity plate it reads 75HP.
With the additional weight of a 4 stroke 75HP on the transom the boat most certainly will not handle well at all. It will be sloppy, sluggish, and IMO dangerous. If you go to the 60HP 4 stroke you are going to lose top end speed. However, you may not lose as much as you think if you have things set up properly.
I have read these forums for years and heard people complain about the performance and handling characteristics of their Dauntless's. When I first bought this one I did not have the SS hydrofoil and I of course was not particularly thrilled with the handling. Adding that hyudrofoil made all the difference in the world.
As a lifelong boater and owner of more boats than I care to remember ranging from an 8'fiberglass john boat to twin engine cruisers even I was shocked at the difference the hydrofoil made.
I guess what I am getting at is that if you do go to the 4-stroke 60HP you might get a little better performance and handling if you put that little critter on.
Personally, I don't find the noise level of a 2-stroke at 1200 to 1700RPM's annoying at all when entering or leaving the harbor and I would be hard pressed to give up 20% of my horsepower for a little more quiet and slightly better fuel economy.
Hopefully you will be happy with whatever choice you make and I hope I have added some information you might find helpful in making your decision.

Tom W Clark posted 09-07-2009 10:12 PM ET (US)
What is a Yamaha P75?
gschrimp posted 09-07-2009 10:48 PM ET (US)
The easy explanation is that the Yamaha "P"75 is a more rugged version of the standard 75HP motor with upgraded internals for improved longevity.
Mambo Minnow posted 09-10-2009 08:52 PM ET (US)
The 1998 Whaler catalog rated the D15 for 75HP. However, the "recommeded HP" in the catalog was 60HP. This is likely what Fishgutz was referring to, but I am clueless as to how Whaler defined the differentiation. Mine had a factory installed Mercury 60HP, conventional two stroke. I concur that this was a very stern weight sensitive boat design, so choose carefully! I never had any of the leaking scupper problems often reported.
The E-TEC 75HP would be a good repower choice at less weight.
dnh posted 09-15-2009 10:20 PM ET (US)
A Yamaha F75 weighs a lot because its the same thing as an F90.
An ETEC 75 weighs the same thing as an ETEC 90.
A Yamaha F60 weighs nine pounds more than a two stroke Yamaha 60 or 70 did.
A Yamaha F60 will not have the get up and go for skiing that a two stroke 70 would have.
Everyone on this site loves ETECs but you will notice that hardly anyone in the boating world actually has an ETEC.
Steve50 posted 09-16-2009 08:42 PM ET (US)
You guys are great, thanks for the inputs. Here is the latest from my side. I have been deep cleaning the boat (it was under a tree for 3 years before I got it), adding a fold-away hinge so it can fit in my garage, plus removing and selling the old Johnson motor for parts. Now there is no motor on the boat I have decided to have a go at removing the old bottom paint before fitting a new motor.
All this has given me more time to consider which motor to fit. I understand all of you who have suggested to go for a 2 stroke for better performance, but as I spend a lot of my time just slowly exploring creeks around where I live, it will be a 4 stroke for sure.
I talked to my local Whaler dealer and they suggested a 60 Mercury Big Foot. They explained that the difference between a normal 60 and a big foot is that the big foot has the lower unit from a 90hp which is physically bigger and has a lower gear ration. I was told that every one fitted a hydrofoil (the Johnson I removed had one) to improve handling, and that the larger lower unit of the big foot had the same effect. Also the lower gearing allowed the fitting of a larger prop to give more relaxed cruising. This all sounded great except I had my heart set on a Yamaha.
So I called both of my local Yamaha dealers suggesting I should have a T60 fitted (T60 is the high torque version of the F60 I would assume the same as the Big Foot is to the normal Mercury 60) for the same reasons the Whaler spec the Big Foot.
However both of them told me I should go with the F60 on my boat. One stated that I would “not be happy” with the T60 which was designed for pontoon boats and the other said there would be little or no difference when fitted to my boat so why pay the little extra for the T version.
I know Yamaha have the different gear ratios on the T model but I’m not sure if the casing of the lower unit is bigger or not.
So, there my friends, out there in Whaler world is my question “which would work best on my boat a T60 or a F60?”
Please don’t answer with E-TEC, because I’m set on a Yamaha 4 Stroke I just need help deciding on which one.
number9 posted 09-17-2009 02:07 AM ET (US)
The T60 does have a larger gear case as well. Both the High Thrust and Big Foot have been heavily marketed as good low power motors for pontoon boats. Apparently Whaler is one of several boat builders who realized the benefits of using on lighter weight planing hulls as well. Several other BW owners here have also reported good results using them.
Do not know what dealers you contacted or who you spoke with. They (sales) might not even be aware how well the T models work or may just have F models in stock and want to sell them.
Tom W Clark posted 09-17-2009 10:33 AM ET (US)
Steve,
You could use either motor on your Dauntless 15. I am sure you would be happy with the T60 but I suspect the F60 is the slightly better fit. It depends on how heavy the boat is and the Dauntless falls right on the line where the benefits of the T60 or Mercury BigFoot will be apparent.
On a boat the size of a Montauk the BigFoot or T60 will be better, but this does not mean the F60 is not good too, it will just not quite accelerate or handle as well.
You are also very much constrained in your choice of propellers with the higher gear ratio which forces you to use a very low pitch propeller. There are also far fewer propeller model choices in the 3.5" small gearcases vs. the far more numerous 4.25" intermediate gearcases.

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Author	Topic: Repower 1996 Dauntless 15
Steve50	posted 08-21-2009 08:16 PM ET (US) I have a 1996 Dauntless which was fitted from new with a Johnson 70hp 2 stroke. I want to fit a new 4 stroke mainly because I want lower noise levels plus all the other 4 stroke advantages, but I don't want to loose the performance. Any suggestions as to what size motor I should get?
Mambo Minnow	posted 08-22-2009 11:42 AM ET (US) I previously owned same model. That boat model is very stern heavy already with an original 2 stroke. I would recommend an E-TEC 75HP vice a four stroke for repower. I have seen a Honda 50 HP four stroke repower, so you will lose alot of horsepower to weight ratio if you go with the four stroke.
TheWhalerStore	posted 08-26-2009 03:23 AM ET (US) The Dauntless line has specific weight requirements so the scuppers are not underwater at rest. As far as the E-Tec motors go,I agree. Buy one. You will not be unhappy with it. Did you know that the E-Tec line has LOWER emissions than EVERY 4 stroke in its class? Evinrude is the only manufacturer to achieve carb 3 ratings on its ENTIRE line of motors,and also the EU (European Union)rating for overseas usage. 4 strokes are way over hyped and the consumer bought into the hype. G.
number9	posted 08-26-2009 03:37 AM ET (US) TheWhalerStore, Unable to find the specific weight requirements you mentioned. Would you please share those? Thanks.
TheWhalerStore	posted 08-26-2009 04:03 AM ET (US) Call Chuck Bennett at Whaler. Ask him for the engineering specs. I dont think they readily published the data until 1999. As I recall,I think it might be 310 LBS,but not sure. Boston Whaler Phone Number 386.428.0057 G.
TheWhalerStore	posted 08-26-2009 04:09 AM ET (US) Found the specs online for the 16 Dauntless as follows. It just confirms that they have them,but did not publish all the model years until after people started to repower boats with heavier 4 stroke motors. That is when it became more important. Boston Whaler 160 Dauntless • LOA: 16' 3" (4.95 m) • Beam: 7' 1" (2.15 m) • Draft: 11" (.27 m) • Weight (dry, no engine): 1500 lbs (680 kg) • Maximum Weight: 1700 lbs (771 kg) • Swamped Capacity: 4200 lbs (1905 kg) • Persons Capacity: 6 • Maximum HP: 115 hp (85 kw) • Minimum HP: 50 hp (37 kw) • Maximum Engine Weight: 410 lbs (185 kg) • Transom Height: 20" (.50 m) • Fuel Capacity: 45 gal (170 L) • Bridge Clearance: 4' 9" (1.44 m)
Perry	posted 08-26-2009 01:16 PM ET (US) quote: Did you know that the E-Tec line has LOWER emissions than EVERY 4 stroke in its class? WhalerStore, do you know you are full of crap? Do some reasearch before you spread your misinformation. Read this thread: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/018435.html And this EPA data, scroll down to Marine Spark-Ignition Engine Certification Data: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/certdata.htm Your lies continue: quote: Evinrude is the only manufacturer to achieve carb 3 ratings on its ENTIRE line of motors So does Honda Marine.
TheWhalerStore	posted 08-26-2009 02:05 PM ET (US) Obviously you have not contacted Boston Whaler before you decide to bring drama here. Best wishes to you. Take an Advil please.
TheWhalerStore	posted 08-26-2009 02:07 PM ET (US) This was the statement with key words being "and" "Evinrude is the only manufacturer to achieve carb 3 ratings on its ENTIRE line of motors, and also the EU (European Union)rating for overseas usage."
Perry	posted 08-26-2009 02:38 PM ET (US) Dude, all outboard manufacturers meet the EU emissions standards, they were required to by 2006 for 4 stoke and 2007 for 2 strokes. Carb 3 star is more stringent than the EU standard. I am glad you like the ETEC, they are fine motors. Just do some research before you say that a particular product is the BEST in the WORLD.
Steve50	posted 08-27-2009 08:43 PM ET (US) I appreciate all the inputs and different opinions. Here is my situation. I spend a lot of time going slowly around marinas and small rivers so I am set on a 4 stroke for the low noise level, but I also need reasonable performance out in the bay. I think my Dauntless 15 is quite a bit smaller than the 16. The plate on the boat rates max hp at 75, I like the look and reputation of Yamaha, but an F75 weighs 369lb which I am guessing will be too heavy, so the next one down is the F60 at 237lb which I assume is about the same weight as the 70hp 2 stroke I already have. The Montauk 150 comes new with a 60hp 4 stroke, so I assume I would get similar performance i.e. around 35 mph WOT, or will the different hull design change that?
fishgutz	posted 08-27-2009 09:42 PM ET (US) Steve, I think the 60 would be a good choice. The newer 150 Whalers use the Mercury with the Bigfoot gearcase so gearing will be a little different. A F60 Yamaha will probably work great. Check their performance reports on the Yamaha website for other similar boats with a F60. The Yamaha T60 is similar to the Merc Bigfoot. Your boat weighs in at about 850 pounds if I'm not mistaken. Here is some archived info on your boat. It was later rated at 60 horsepower so you should be good. http://web.archive.org/web/19990128161616/www.whaler.com/recreation/ dauntless/dauntless.15.html
Steve50	posted 08-27-2009 11:39 PM ET (US) Good input - Thanks (link is very useful). I am still trying to get my head around the difference between the F60 and T60 I assume its higher torque which is not specified on the Yamaha web site.
Steve50	posted 08-27-2009 11:43 PM ET (US) Looking at the Mercury website the only difference I see is the Gear Ration on the big foot which I assume allows a bigger prop, so I guess faster out of the hole?
Bill B	posted 08-28-2009 12:47 AM ET (US) Specs from 1994 catalog for 15 dauntless 15'1' length 6'4" beam 730 lbs boat weight 1,300 max weight capacity, boat, motor, gear and people 70hp max capacity 30hp min 20" shaft length Specs from 1998 catalog for 15 dauntless 15'1" length 6'4" beam 850 lbs boat weight (+130lbs from 1994 model) 1,200 lbs max weight capacity (- 1,000 lbs from 1994 model) 75hp max capacity (+5hp from 1994) 30hp min 20" shaft length Still Looking for my 1996 catalog. This model did not have a fixed fuel tank so that is not the weight difference. Yes the scuppers leaked with a 75 2 stroke merc on back with a person at the stern, but the boat really moved. I am am Mercury guy from the word go. My new Opti Max 175 on my 210 Outrage is the best, super smooth, super quiet, super fast, great economy, no smoke. Interesting that the 94 catalog had only OMC (evinrude/johnson) one Yamaha and zero Mercury power. 1998, all Mercury.
Tohsgib	posted 08-28-2009 12:47 PM ET (US) Not interesting...brunswick bought Whaler in 96 or 97.
Mambo Minnow	posted 08-29-2009 11:37 AM ET (US) I saw a Dauntless 15 in Annapolis harbor basin Wednesday night with a Yamaha 60 four stroke repowered on the back. The boat looked trimmed nicely and no water on the deck in the stern.
number9	posted 08-29-2009 02:42 PM ET (US) Steve50, The gear ratio on the T60 does differ from the F60, the whole gear case is larger and takes the same props as the 75-115. I have a T50, love it and like being able to swing a larger diameter prop. If in your shoes would be looking for a Yamaha T60 or E-Tec 60 which have similar gear ratios rather than a China built Mercury 60 Big Foot.
gschrimp	posted 09-07-2009 09:10 PM ET (US) Steve. I have a 1996 Dauntless 15' with a Yamaha P75.
gschrimp	posted 09-07-2009 10:10 PM ET (US) Sorry for the 2nd post Steve but I accidentally hit the Submit Reply button. As the owner of a 1996 15' Dauntless I hopefully can provide you with some information you will find helpful. I have a 1998 Yamaha P75 as power. The P75 will push the boat along at a bit over 40MPH turning a 3-bladed 17 pitch SS prop at 5100RPM. This speed is obtained fully loaded which includes the 15 gallon inboard fuel tank, battery, two coolers, tools, gear, and other accessories along with 400 pounds of passengers. The motor which weighs in at about 265 pounds is equipped with a SS Cobra hydrofoil which made an incredible difference in hole shot, handling, and reducing porpoising. Fuel economy with that prop is slightly over 5 MPG. Additionally, I have a 4 blade Powertech 13 pitch SS prop we use for mostly for skiing and sometimes for cruising on Lake Michigan. With that prop we obtain a top speed of slighly over 35MPH at 4500RPM and fuel economy of slightly over 4MPG under the same load conditions. Interestingly enough there is little difference in cruising speed at 3300RPM's. The variance is about 1MPH with the 4 blade averaging a bit over 21MPH and the 3 blade 22MPH. When I purchased the boat it had the same power yours did, a 70HP Johnson. As I did not like the Johnson to start with I put the Yamaha power on before ever turning the key. At the time I purchased the boat I also wanted a 4-stroker. The only problem was as others have alluded to was the weight which would add nearly 100 pounds at the transom. My dealers advised I not go with the 75HP 4 -stroke and I am very happy I followed his advice. When there are just two of us in the boat (wife and I) and I am sitting in the helm seat and she moves to the transom to jump in off the small swim platform water comes in through the scuppers. Her weight is about 140 pounds. Hence, I don't believe one would ever want to go over 300 pounds at the transom. Secondly, I saw the URL posted by Fishgutz by Whaler regarding a rating of 60 HP for the 15' Dauntless. I find this kind of amusing as on my capacity plate it reads 75HP. With the additional weight of a 4 stroke 75HP on the transom the boat most certainly will not handle well at all. It will be sloppy, sluggish, and IMO dangerous. If you go to the 60HP 4 stroke you are going to lose top end speed. However, you may not lose as much as you think if you have things set up properly. I have read these forums for years and heard people complain about the performance and handling characteristics of their Dauntless's. When I first bought this one I did not have the SS hydrofoil and I of course was not particularly thrilled with the handling. Adding that hyudrofoil made all the difference in the world. As a lifelong boater and owner of more boats than I care to remember ranging from an 8'fiberglass john boat to twin engine cruisers even I was shocked at the difference the hydrofoil made. I guess what I am getting at is that if you do go to the 4-stroke 60HP you might get a little better performance and handling if you put that little critter on. Personally, I don't find the noise level of a 2-stroke at 1200 to 1700RPM's annoying at all when entering or leaving the harbor and I would be hard pressed to give up 20% of my horsepower for a little more quiet and slightly better fuel economy. Hopefully you will be happy with whatever choice you make and I hope I have added some information you might find helpful in making your decision.
Tom W Clark	posted 09-07-2009 10:12 PM ET (US) What is a Yamaha P75?
gschrimp	posted 09-07-2009 10:48 PM ET (US) The easy explanation is that the Yamaha "P"75 is a more rugged version of the standard 75HP motor with upgraded internals for improved longevity.
Mambo Minnow	posted 09-10-2009 08:52 PM ET (US) The 1998 Whaler catalog rated the D15 for 75HP. However, the "recommeded HP" in the catalog was 60HP. This is likely what Fishgutz was referring to, but I am clueless as to how Whaler defined the differentiation. Mine had a factory installed Mercury 60HP, conventional two stroke. I concur that this was a very stern weight sensitive boat design, so choose carefully! I never had any of the leaking scupper problems often reported. The E-TEC 75HP would be a good repower choice at less weight.
dnh	posted 09-15-2009 10:20 PM ET (US) A Yamaha F75 weighs a lot because its the same thing as an F90. An ETEC 75 weighs the same thing as an ETEC 90. A Yamaha F60 weighs nine pounds more than a two stroke Yamaha 60 or 70 did. A Yamaha F60 will not have the get up and go for skiing that a two stroke 70 would have. Everyone on this site loves ETECs but you will notice that hardly anyone in the boating world actually has an ETEC.
Steve50	posted 09-16-2009 08:42 PM ET (US) You guys are great, thanks for the inputs. Here is the latest from my side. I have been deep cleaning the boat (it was under a tree for 3 years before I got it), adding a fold-away hinge so it can fit in my garage, plus removing and selling the old Johnson motor for parts. Now there is no motor on the boat I have decided to have a go at removing the old bottom paint before fitting a new motor. All this has given me more time to consider which motor to fit. I understand all of you who have suggested to go for a 2 stroke for better performance, but as I spend a lot of my time just slowly exploring creeks around where I live, it will be a 4 stroke for sure. I talked to my local Whaler dealer and they suggested a 60 Mercury Big Foot. They explained that the difference between a normal 60 and a big foot is that the big foot has the lower unit from a 90hp which is physically bigger and has a lower gear ration. I was told that every one fitted a hydrofoil (the Johnson I removed had one) to improve handling, and that the larger lower unit of the big foot had the same effect. Also the lower gearing allowed the fitting of a larger prop to give more relaxed cruising. This all sounded great except I had my heart set on a Yamaha. So I called both of my local Yamaha dealers suggesting I should have a T60 fitted (T60 is the high torque version of the F60 I would assume the same as the Big Foot is to the normal Mercury 60) for the same reasons the Whaler spec the Big Foot. However both of them told me I should go with the F60 on my boat. One stated that I would “not be happy” with the T60 which was designed for pontoon boats and the other said there would be little or no difference when fitted to my boat so why pay the little extra for the T version. I know Yamaha have the different gear ratios on the T model but I’m not sure if the casing of the lower unit is bigger or not. So, there my friends, out there in Whaler world is my question “which would work best on my boat a T60 or a F60?” Please don’t answer with E-TEC, because I’m set on a Yamaha 4 Stroke I just need help deciding on which one.
number9	posted 09-17-2009 02:07 AM ET (US) The T60 does have a larger gear case as well. Both the High Thrust and Big Foot have been heavily marketed as good low power motors for pontoon boats. Apparently Whaler is one of several boat builders who realized the benefits of using on lighter weight planing hulls as well. Several other BW owners here have also reported good results using them. Do not know what dealers you contacted or who you spoke with. They (sales) might not even be aware how well the T models work or may just have F models in stock and want to sell them.
Tom W Clark	posted 09-17-2009 10:33 AM ET (US) Steve, You could use either motor on your Dauntless 15. I am sure you would be happy with the T60 but I suspect the F60 is the slightly better fit. It depends on how heavy the boat is and the Dauntless falls right on the line where the benefits of the T60 or Mercury BigFoot will be apparent. On a boat the size of a Montauk the BigFoot or T60 will be better, but this does not mean the F60 is not good too, it will just not quite accelerate or handle as well. You are also very much constrained in your choice of propellers with the higher gear ratio which forces you to use a very low pitch propeller. There are also far fewer propeller model choices in the 3.5" small gearcases vs. the far more numerous 4.25" intermediate gearcases.