1997 Outrage 20: Weight of Four-stroke Engine

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Author Topic:   1997 Outrage 20: Weight of Four-stroke Engine

Tolly posted 02-21-2010 05:19 PM ET (US)
I would like to re-power my 1997 Outrage 20 with a four-cycle outboard, but I am getting conflicting information if the the added weight and height will cause [problems]. I currently have a Johnson 225-HP engine which weighs about 460-lbs on the boat, and no one makes a six-cylinder four-cycle engine in that weight range. [Implied question: Is the fact that no six-cylinder four-cycle engines weigh 460-lbs or less a problem in using them to re-power a 1997 OUTRAGE 20?]
jimh posted 02-21-2010 07:07 PM ET (US)
[Moved to PERFORMANCE.]
jimh posted 02-21-2010 07:13 PM ET (US)
When re-powering with a four-cycle engine there generally is an increase in the engine weight on the transom. To compensate for added transom weight, many owners move weight from the stern of the boat forward. For example, the boat batteries may be moved from the stern to the center console.
TransAm posted 02-21-2010 08:05 PM ET (US)
I would look hard at the new Yamaha 4.2L V6 225 HP engine. At 558 lbs, a 20' Outrage would have no problem handling this weight. If a 20' bass boat can handle this weight, it's a walk in the park for a 20' Whaler. In fact, I think any modern 4-stroke would not over-burden a 20' Outrage, although the 225 HP Verado @ 635 lbs may test this theory.
drd posted 02-22-2010 07:12 AM ET (US)
My previous boat was a 98 20 outrage with a 200 merc. These boats were designed before there were heavy 4 stroke motors, and thus designed to handle the lighter weight of a 2 stroke engine. When I was looking to repower, I was advised by most to stay with a lighter 2 stroke engine as opposed to going to a heavy 4 stroke. Weight is a big issue in that boat. Mine did not have tabs, The bow rise was considerable with minimal weight in back, adding more weight on the transom probably would not help. My current boat has twin 225 yamahas, which are physically much larger engines then my 200hp merc. To position them in that small notch and motor well would be tight. I think you maybe better off going the way of either etec or opitmax on that hull.
tedious posted 02-22-2010 11:09 AM ET (US)
Just for reference, in the 25" shaft, the eTec 225 weighs 518 pounds and the Optimax weighs 505. So while the Yamaha is heavier, neither of the more modern 2-strokes is as light as the old warhorse.
Tohsgib posted 02-22-2010 12:01 PM ET (US)
Stick 100lbs in front of the engine and see how it performs.
Tolly posted 02-22-2010 01:14 PM ET (US)
It's still a split opinion between using the lighter new 225 hp 2 cycle etec or optimax engine at about 500 lbs or a 225 hp 4 cycle yamaha, honda, or suzuki which all weight in at about 580 lbs. I certainly don't want to put tabs on a 20 ft boat or add 100 lbs of chain into the anchor locker. I guess what I am really asking is before I go out and spend the cold hard cash to repower this boat does anyone know of any actual examples of this hull with a 580 lbs 4 cycle and if it experienced and issues with the added weight (general performance and handling)?
I guess another option could be to put a 175 hp 4 cylinder Suzuki 4 cycle which weighs in at about 480 lbs but doesn't have the torque of a 6 cylinder. With a 175 hp I will lose only about 5 mph top end but will it come up on plane fully loaded (7 or 8 of today's people, not the coast guard rating people)?
Tohsgib posted 02-22-2010 01:38 PM ET (US)
Again...put 100lbs of weight on your transom and see how she does. 460 - 560lbs should not be a problem though.
Tolly posted 02-22-2010 03:44 PM ET (US)
I would love to that, but up here in the northeast I still need to wait a couple of months before the ice melts on the lakes or the ocean gets above 38 degrees.
onlyawhaler posted 02-22-2010 11:40 PM ET (US)
This is the same model as my current 99 Outrage. It is overly sensitive to aft weight and my 8hp Yamaha kicker 4 stroke along with a tank of gas will push this boat to the edge of porpoising. The Yamaha kicker is right about 100 lbs, I have a Yamaha 225 OX66 two stroke and that is probably the equilivent of repowering with most 225hp 4 strokes.
Some Whaler models handle aft weight, this model doesn't do it well
Stay lighter with this model on the transom
Onlyawhaler
onlyawhaler posted 02-23-2010 03:39 PM ET (US)
Sorry, I was not really clear in my post above. My point was that the combination of my Yamaha 225 two stroke and the 4 stroke kicker motor push the edge with weight on this boat.
I do have trim tabs and that helps, but bottom line, this is a model that does't handle excess weight aft well at all. A full tank of gas makes it worse. It has lots of other great features, but aft weight is not its virtue.
Onlyawhaler
larimore posted 03-01-2010 10:40 PM ET (US)
Gotta Have Trim Tabs...Worth every penny
Wiscbw posted 03-05-2010 11:39 PM ET (US)
I have the 96 Outrage 19/20 with a Yamaha 225 OX66 two stroke and a Mercury 9.9 four stroke. It does like to porpoise and at speeds over 50 mph gets a little squirrely. It is typically okay at cruise, but sometimes I do need to change my speed to control the porpoising.
I don’t have trim tabs. For my limited boating it is fine for local lakes or while on Lake Michigan.

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Author	Topic: 1997 Outrage 20: Weight of Four-stroke Engine
Tolly	posted 02-21-2010 05:19 PM ET (US) I would like to re-power my 1997 Outrage 20 with a four-cycle outboard, but I am getting conflicting information if the the added weight and height will cause [problems]. I currently have a Johnson 225-HP engine which weighs about 460-lbs on the boat, and no one makes a six-cylinder four-cycle engine in that weight range. [Implied question: Is the fact that no six-cylinder four-cycle engines weigh 460-lbs or less a problem in using them to re-power a 1997 OUTRAGE 20?]
jimh	posted 02-21-2010 07:07 PM ET (US) [Moved to PERFORMANCE.]
jimh	posted 02-21-2010 07:13 PM ET (US) When re-powering with a four-cycle engine there generally is an increase in the engine weight on the transom. To compensate for added transom weight, many owners move weight from the stern of the boat forward. For example, the boat batteries may be moved from the stern to the center console.
TransAm	posted 02-21-2010 08:05 PM ET (US) I would look hard at the new Yamaha 4.2L V6 225 HP engine. At 558 lbs, a 20' Outrage would have no problem handling this weight. If a 20' bass boat can handle this weight, it's a walk in the park for a 20' Whaler. In fact, I think any modern 4-stroke would not over-burden a 20' Outrage, although the 225 HP Verado @ 635 lbs may test this theory.
drd	posted 02-22-2010 07:12 AM ET (US) My previous boat was a 98 20 outrage with a 200 merc. These boats were designed before there were heavy 4 stroke motors, and thus designed to handle the lighter weight of a 2 stroke engine. When I was looking to repower, I was advised by most to stay with a lighter 2 stroke engine as opposed to going to a heavy 4 stroke. Weight is a big issue in that boat. Mine did not have tabs, The bow rise was considerable with minimal weight in back, adding more weight on the transom probably would not help. My current boat has twin 225 yamahas, which are physically much larger engines then my 200hp merc. To position them in that small notch and motor well would be tight. I think you maybe better off going the way of either etec or opitmax on that hull.
tedious	posted 02-22-2010 11:09 AM ET (US) Just for reference, in the 25" shaft, the eTec 225 weighs 518 pounds and the Optimax weighs 505. So while the Yamaha is heavier, neither of the more modern 2-strokes is as light as the old warhorse.
Tohsgib	posted 02-22-2010 12:01 PM ET (US) Stick 100lbs in front of the engine and see how it performs.
Tolly	posted 02-22-2010 01:14 PM ET (US) It's still a split opinion between using the lighter new 225 hp 2 cycle etec or optimax engine at about 500 lbs or a 225 hp 4 cycle yamaha, honda, or suzuki which all weight in at about 580 lbs. I certainly don't want to put tabs on a 20 ft boat or add 100 lbs of chain into the anchor locker. I guess what I am really asking is before I go out and spend the cold hard cash to repower this boat does anyone know of any actual examples of this hull with a 580 lbs 4 cycle and if it experienced and issues with the added weight (general performance and handling)? I guess another option could be to put a 175 hp 4 cylinder Suzuki 4 cycle which weighs in at about 480 lbs but doesn't have the torque of a 6 cylinder. With a 175 hp I will lose only about 5 mph top end but will it come up on plane fully loaded (7 or 8 of today's people, not the coast guard rating people)?
Tohsgib	posted 02-22-2010 01:38 PM ET (US) Again...put 100lbs of weight on your transom and see how she does. 460 - 560lbs should not be a problem though.
Tolly	posted 02-22-2010 03:44 PM ET (US) I would love to that, but up here in the northeast I still need to wait a couple of months before the ice melts on the lakes or the ocean gets above 38 degrees.
onlyawhaler	posted 02-22-2010 11:40 PM ET (US) This is the same model as my current 99 Outrage. It is overly sensitive to aft weight and my 8hp Yamaha kicker 4 stroke along with a tank of gas will push this boat to the edge of porpoising. The Yamaha kicker is right about 100 lbs, I have a Yamaha 225 OX66 two stroke and that is probably the equilivent of repowering with most 225hp 4 strokes. Some Whaler models handle aft weight, this model doesn't do it well Stay lighter with this model on the transom Onlyawhaler
onlyawhaler	posted 02-23-2010 03:39 PM ET (US) Sorry, I was not really clear in my post above. My point was that the combination of my Yamaha 225 two stroke and the 4 stroke kicker motor push the edge with weight on this boat. I do have trim tabs and that helps, but bottom line, this is a model that does't handle excess weight aft well at all. A full tank of gas makes it worse. It has lots of other great features, but aft weight is not its virtue. Onlyawhaler
larimore	posted 03-01-2010 10:40 PM ET (US) Gotta Have Trim Tabs...Worth every penny
Wiscbw	posted 03-05-2010 11:39 PM ET (US) I have the 96 Outrage 19/20 with a Yamaha 225 OX66 two stroke and a Mercury 9.9 four stroke. It does like to porpoise and at speeds over 50 mph gets a little squirrely. It is typically okay at cruise, but sometimes I do need to change my speed to control the porpoising. I don’t have trim tabs. For my limited boating it is fine for local lakes or while on Lake Michigan.