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Author Topic:   Appropriate Motor for 13' Classic

ThomasB posted 07-29-2010 06:33 PM ET (US)
I have a 13 foot classic with a 15 inch transom. The Mercury 25 HP two-stroke engine that has moved the boat well for many years along the Maine coast when it is carrying 4+ adults has just died. I have tried a new Mercury 25 HP four-stroke that has a dry weight of 157 lbs, but it is too bulky and heavy for me. I cannot tilt the engine up without great effort, and the boat has become unbalanced and sits too low in the stern. I assume that adding a hydraulic lift will only increase the weight in the stern, so that is not a solution. What is an appropriate four-stroke engine for this boat, or do I have to find a second-hand two-stroke? The Mercury 20 HP four-stroke has a dry weight of 115 lbs. I like the smaller bulk and lighter weight of the 20 HP four-stroke engine, but I'm concerned that it won't get the boat up and planing when it is loaded with 4+ adults? ( I am not tied to Mercury, it's just the motor I'm currently familiar with.) Any advice would be appreciated.
Tohsgib posted 07-29-2010 07:39 PM ET (US)
Just because it sits low does not mean it is too heavy, it is just sitting lower than you are used to. I have a 240lb Suzuki 40 4 stroke on mine and yes it sits low but it rides just great but personally it is overkill. I would look at a 25-30 with PTnT and enjoy. Problem is they don't make 25-30's in 15" shaft with PTnT so I guess you need to build the transom, use a jackplate, or get a mototilt thingy for $69 that uses leverage to lift it.
pcrussell50 posted 07-29-2010 07:40 PM ET (US)
Are you handy with general repairs? If so, I wouldn't shy away in the least, from a used 2-stroke. Since you're talking about a 13 foot classic, I'm going to assume you do not need that very last word in fuel economy, since one does not typically motor one of those all day long, covering large distances. For instance, I use my classic 13 for nearshore duties and use a 3 gallon tank with a big 40hp Yamaha 2-stroke. I still get two or three outings on a tankful.
-Peter
contender posted 07-29-2010 11:10 PM ET (US)
No Brain-er, New Evinrude Etec 30drs 15 inch manual 146lbs. You keep your boat with the factory transom. Tohsgib is correct, they sell a folding arm that fits on top of the engine that gives you more leverage to tilt the engine. Also your old merc may have been hard to tilt. This would be an most excellent combo (13 Whaler/30 Etec) and you will not be sorry....
thegage posted 07-30-2010 12:04 AM ET (US)
The 15" E-TEC 30 only comes in the tiller model--don't know if that matters.
I can vouch for the Classic 13/E-TEC combo as I just put a 2010 30 on my '69 Sport. I went with the 20" shaft (no power T&T) and raised the motor with a combination of the Kentfab Transdapter and a jack plate. Total weight is about 185 lbs., and with the battery and gas tank moved forward the boat sits high enough to show the chines all the way to the stern (yes, it is a dry hull!). It is one sweet little motor and I think is just the right balance of weight and performance.
John K.
Jeff posted 07-30-2010 12:22 AM ET (US)
Here is the Kent Fab adapter thegage used:
http://kentfab.com/Transdaptor%2013.htm
I would recommend considering it and moving to a 20" shaft motor.
While I can not personally speak for performance as I have not been on the boat, the guy who bought my 1975 13 sport last year rigged a Yamaha 20hp Four Stroke with power Tilt and Trim. He claims he loves it on the 13 and often fishes with himself and two of his friends. I see pictures of him all the time on Facebook using it and he and his crew likely add up to 500 - 600 lbs of just people. He claims it still planes well.
All that said I personally could never rig anything smaller than a 30hp on a 13 sport for myself. Also, I would have to vote E-Tec as well if you are looking to go with a new motor. That is mainly based on my personal opinions of the motor and the great dealer I have access to.
thegage posted 07-30-2010 08:37 AM ET (US)
Re the Transdapter: It is not made clear on the Kentfab website, but it is likely that the Transdapter alone will not raise a 20" shaft motor to the correct height; even with the Transdapter the anti-ventilation plate will be an inch or two (or more) below the bottom edge of the transom. It may not matter to everyone, but even with the Transdapter I had a wicked rooster tail--and attendant reduction in performance--because the engine was still too low. To get to the optimum height you will need a jack plate or some sort of transom raiser. I went with a Bob's Mini Jack Plate, but if I did it over again I would also consider something like the T&R Transom Elevator. The only issue with the Elevator is that it is not adjustable once installed.
http://www.marineengine.com/products/accessory.php?in=3430217
Still, I would do the Transdapter again in a second. It looks like it came from the factory, installs very easily, and creates a reinforced transom that I know will now stand up better to a modern engine.
John K.
Tohsgib posted 07-30-2010 11:50 AM ET (US)
Sorry...$49. These things work awesome. We had a 100hp Evinrude and this made it almost like butter to tilt.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item. jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A& _DAV=null-cat350012&id=0036316018132a&navCount=0&podId=0036316& parentId=cat350012&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=IA& rid=0123456789&parentType=index&indexId=cat601233&hasJS=true
contender posted 07-30-2010 01:59 PM ET (US)
I'm sure Evinrude makes a kit to change the motor from tiller to standard steer...Tohsgib, good job...Go for the 15 inch engine at 146 lbs, and use your other monies (jack plate, Kent Fab) for something else...
thegage posted 07-30-2010 02:07 PM ET (US)
I wouldn't be so sure about the conversion. As far as I can tell Evinrude does not have a kit for the present E-TECs. Believe me, I checked.
John K.
pcrussell50 posted 07-30-2010 02:11 PM ET (US)
I asked the Kentfab people by email if their piece came pre-drilled with the BIA bolt pattern or was a available that way, and if came with any mounting hardware. Never heard back from them, despite multiple emails spaced about once per week, as not to appear as a pest. As a result, Iimited my search to 20" transom boats and was done with it.
-Peter
Tohsgib posted 07-30-2010 02:26 PM ET (US)
I doubt you would see much difference between a 25 & 30hp E-tec of the same block size. I also can't see how 40lbs of engine would cause you boat to become "unbalanced". Lastly 4 adults and a 20-30hp is pushing it. Again I have a 40 and 4 adults takes a while to get going and makes freeboard quite low. Unless going real close by, I limit my 13 to 3 people.
thegage posted 07-30-2010 03:24 PM ET (US)
Getting information from the Kentfab people by e-mail was a pain. It makes you wonder whether or not they check their e-mail, but once I put "Order" in the subject header they came right back to me. Kind of annoying.
Given the same block on the 25/30 E-TEC I would guess the difference is at the top end speed, but since Evinrude doesn't publish torque curves I can only guess. I will say that I have had 3 adults and one child (about 600 lbs. of people) in the boat and it popped onto plane pretty darn quick.
John k.
Tohsgib posted 07-30-2010 03:37 PM ET (US)
True...about 600lbs it still rides OK, add another 200+ person and it changes pretty drastic. On a lake it might not be bad but in a bay it gets REAL wet with the low freeboard. I still think 25-30 is all you need in a 13, especially and the ole blues. Like I said I think my 40 is overkill...scaryfast but not readily available to run it that way. A 20 might be pushing it considering it is a souped up 15.
contender posted 07-30-2010 05:19 PM ET (US)
Thegage: You got me thinking, I check with Evinrude and they do not have a kit as of yet, however they are in the process of making one and it will be done(Soon is what I was told). However you can buy the parts separate to change a tiller to a standard steer. I would say you should have to wait for the kit cause the change over (no instructions plus the cost of purchasing the parts separate) would be to expensive. I'm very surprised that this was not figured out from day one and is an after thought...Why would someone want to replace their old engine and have to go to a tiller steer...Bad marking on Evinrude's part... Take care. PS So yes, it can be done, No, currently there is not a kit for the change, I stand corrected.
Moby Dick posted 07-30-2010 05:37 PM ET (US)
I had a 1975 Sport 13 with a 40HP Mercury. The Merc 402 has alot of trouble but the 40HP was really nice. Used to pull water skiers up on 2 skis and they could drop off and salom.
Tohsgib posted 07-31-2010 11:15 AM ET (US)
Moby that 402 was one of Merc's least favorable engines and was not a screamer. I bet a modern 25 would keep up with it and have the same oomph.
Moby Dick posted 07-31-2010 05:39 PM ET (US)
I agree the Merc 402 was a piece of @%&* but it would push the 13 to 34 MPH. No 25 would keep up with that. It would run with the 35 Johnson's although they could pull skiers and tubes better.
macfam posted 08-01-2010 08:14 AM ET (US)
Friday I had 4 adults and 3 kids in the 13' Super Sport plus a full cooler and beach stuff (wow was it crowded!)
Anyway, I was amazed that the 30 E-TEC picked up and got on plane with that load! It was working pretty hard I'm sure, but it moved right along.
sonnie posted 08-01-2010 09:47 AM ET (US)
My sons and I are looking for a 13. what about a tiller drive manual start 15 inch yamaha 25 2010?Any ideas out there how that would perform?
Tohsgib posted 08-02-2010 11:01 AM ET (US)
Light load would fetch low 20's.
Seminole Jack posted 08-02-2010 03:23 PM ET (US)
The appropriate motor for a 13 footer with a 15" transom would be the 31.8cu. in. OMC built from 1978 to 2005. Plenty of them around if you want to take the time to find a low hour fresh water one. They were built in 20-25-30 and 35hp versions. Only difference is the carb. The 20 hp also has a different intake manifold and is to low powered anyway. Ran the 25hp on a 13 footer years ago, with plenty of power to ski (one teen age girl) If you want new than the 25hp Merc/Tohatsu would be a good choice as far as I`m concerned. Not alot of torque, and might not pull a skier, but with a 9 inch pitch prop it will run 28-29mph GP
S at 6000rpm with myself 200lbs. and two 115lb. women.(hard to find 115 lb women nowadays) When I`m alone I run an 11" pitch and will run 29-30 mph.5900rpm GPS. Although its a pain to switch props for 1 mph difference, The 9" pitch prop with over rev. with me alone (6200rpm). I also hang a 40 lb trolling motor on a bracket on the stern. Motor is 157lbs, plus trolling motor equalls 197 lbs. Interior is moved forward 6", and rear thwart is raised so two 60 lbs batterys(one for trolling motor) and the 6 gallon fuel tank fits under seat.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/ Whaler%20with%20Mercury/WHALER8.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/ Whaler%20with%20Mercury/Whalermerc5.jpg
Jack

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Author	Topic: Appropriate Motor for 13' Classic
ThomasB	posted 07-29-2010 06:33 PM ET (US) I have a 13 foot classic with a 15 inch transom. The Mercury 25 HP two-stroke engine that has moved the boat well for many years along the Maine coast when it is carrying 4+ adults has just died. I have tried a new Mercury 25 HP four-stroke that has a dry weight of 157 lbs, but it is too bulky and heavy for me. I cannot tilt the engine up without great effort, and the boat has become unbalanced and sits too low in the stern. I assume that adding a hydraulic lift will only increase the weight in the stern, so that is not a solution. What is an appropriate four-stroke engine for this boat, or do I have to find a second-hand two-stroke? The Mercury 20 HP four-stroke has a dry weight of 115 lbs. I like the smaller bulk and lighter weight of the 20 HP four-stroke engine, but I'm concerned that it won't get the boat up and planing when it is loaded with 4+ adults? ( I am not tied to Mercury, it's just the motor I'm currently familiar with.) Any advice would be appreciated.
Tohsgib	posted 07-29-2010 07:39 PM ET (US) Just because it sits low does not mean it is too heavy, it is just sitting lower than you are used to. I have a 240lb Suzuki 40 4 stroke on mine and yes it sits low but it rides just great but personally it is overkill. I would look at a 25-30 with PTnT and enjoy. Problem is they don't make 25-30's in 15" shaft with PTnT so I guess you need to build the transom, use a jackplate, or get a mototilt thingy for $69 that uses leverage to lift it.
pcrussell50	posted 07-29-2010 07:40 PM ET (US) Are you handy with general repairs? If so, I wouldn't shy away in the least, from a used 2-stroke. Since you're talking about a 13 foot classic, I'm going to assume you do not need that very last word in fuel economy, since one does not typically motor one of those all day long, covering large distances. For instance, I use my classic 13 for nearshore duties and use a 3 gallon tank with a big 40hp Yamaha 2-stroke. I still get two or three outings on a tankful. -Peter
contender	posted 07-29-2010 11:10 PM ET (US) No Brain-er, New Evinrude Etec 30drs 15 inch manual 146lbs. You keep your boat with the factory transom. Tohsgib is correct, they sell a folding arm that fits on top of the engine that gives you more leverage to tilt the engine. Also your old merc may have been hard to tilt. This would be an most excellent combo (13 Whaler/30 Etec) and you will not be sorry....
thegage	posted 07-30-2010 12:04 AM ET (US) The 15" E-TEC 30 only comes in the tiller model--don't know if that matters. I can vouch for the Classic 13/E-TEC combo as I just put a 2010 30 on my '69 Sport. I went with the 20" shaft (no power T&T) and raised the motor with a combination of the Kentfab Transdapter and a jack plate. Total weight is about 185 lbs., and with the battery and gas tank moved forward the boat sits high enough to show the chines all the way to the stern (yes, it is a dry hull!). It is one sweet little motor and I think is just the right balance of weight and performance. John K.
Jeff	posted 07-30-2010 12:22 AM ET (US) Here is the Kent Fab adapter thegage used: http://kentfab.com/Transdaptor%2013.htm I would recommend considering it and moving to a 20" shaft motor. While I can not personally speak for performance as I have not been on the boat, the guy who bought my 1975 13 sport last year rigged a Yamaha 20hp Four Stroke with power Tilt and Trim. He claims he loves it on the 13 and often fishes with himself and two of his friends. I see pictures of him all the time on Facebook using it and he and his crew likely add up to 500 - 600 lbs of just people. He claims it still planes well. All that said I personally could never rig anything smaller than a 30hp on a 13 sport for myself. Also, I would have to vote E-Tec as well if you are looking to go with a new motor. That is mainly based on my personal opinions of the motor and the great dealer I have access to.
thegage	posted 07-30-2010 08:37 AM ET (US) Re the Transdapter: It is not made clear on the Kentfab website, but it is likely that the Transdapter alone will not raise a 20" shaft motor to the correct height; even with the Transdapter the anti-ventilation plate will be an inch or two (or more) below the bottom edge of the transom. It may not matter to everyone, but even with the Transdapter I had a wicked rooster tail--and attendant reduction in performance--because the engine was still too low. To get to the optimum height you will need a jack plate or some sort of transom raiser. I went with a Bob's Mini Jack Plate, but if I did it over again I would also consider something like the T&R Transom Elevator. The only issue with the Elevator is that it is not adjustable once installed. http://www.marineengine.com/products/accessory.php?in=3430217 Still, I would do the Transdapter again in a second. It looks like it came from the factory, installs very easily, and creates a reinforced transom that I know will now stand up better to a modern engine. John K.
Tohsgib	posted 07-30-2010 11:50 AM ET (US) Sorry...$49. These things work awesome. We had a 100hp Evinrude and this made it almost like butter to tilt. http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item. jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A& _DAV=null-cat350012&id=0036316018132a&navCount=0&podId=0036316& parentId=cat350012&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=IA& rid=0123456789&parentType=index&indexId=cat601233&hasJS=true
contender	posted 07-30-2010 01:59 PM ET (US) I'm sure Evinrude makes a kit to change the motor from tiller to standard steer...Tohsgib, good job...Go for the 15 inch engine at 146 lbs, and use your other monies (jack plate, Kent Fab) for something else...
thegage	posted 07-30-2010 02:07 PM ET (US) I wouldn't be so sure about the conversion. As far as I can tell Evinrude does not have a kit for the present E-TECs. Believe me, I checked. John K.
pcrussell50	posted 07-30-2010 02:11 PM ET (US) I asked the Kentfab people by email if their piece came pre-drilled with the BIA bolt pattern or was a available that way, and if came with any mounting hardware. Never heard back from them, despite multiple emails spaced about once per week, as not to appear as a pest. As a result, Iimited my search to 20" transom boats and was done with it. -Peter
Tohsgib	posted 07-30-2010 02:26 PM ET (US) I doubt you would see much difference between a 25 & 30hp E-tec of the same block size. I also can't see how 40lbs of engine would cause you boat to become "unbalanced". Lastly 4 adults and a 20-30hp is pushing it. Again I have a 40 and 4 adults takes a while to get going and makes freeboard quite low. Unless going real close by, I limit my 13 to 3 people.
thegage	posted 07-30-2010 03:24 PM ET (US) Getting information from the Kentfab people by e-mail was a pain. It makes you wonder whether or not they check their e-mail, but once I put "Order" in the subject header they came right back to me. Kind of annoying. Given the same block on the 25/30 E-TEC I would guess the difference is at the top end speed, but since Evinrude doesn't publish torque curves I can only guess. I will say that I have had 3 adults and one child (about 600 lbs. of people) in the boat and it popped onto plane pretty darn quick. John k.
Tohsgib	posted 07-30-2010 03:37 PM ET (US) True...about 600lbs it still rides OK, add another 200+ person and it changes pretty drastic. On a lake it might not be bad but in a bay it gets REAL wet with the low freeboard. I still think 25-30 is all you need in a 13, especially and the ole blues. Like I said I think my 40 is overkill...scaryfast but not readily available to run it that way. A 20 might be pushing it considering it is a souped up 15.
contender	posted 07-30-2010 05:19 PM ET (US) Thegage: You got me thinking, I check with Evinrude and they do not have a kit as of yet, however they are in the process of making one and it will be done(Soon is what I was told). However you can buy the parts separate to change a tiller to a standard steer. I would say you should have to wait for the kit cause the change over (no instructions plus the cost of purchasing the parts separate) would be to expensive. I'm very surprised that this was not figured out from day one and is an after thought...Why would someone want to replace their old engine and have to go to a tiller steer...Bad marking on Evinrude's part... Take care. PS So yes, it can be done, No, currently there is not a kit for the change, I stand corrected.
Moby Dick	posted 07-30-2010 05:37 PM ET (US) I had a 1975 Sport 13 with a 40HP Mercury. The Merc 402 has alot of trouble but the 40HP was really nice. Used to pull water skiers up on 2 skis and they could drop off and salom.
Tohsgib	posted 07-31-2010 11:15 AM ET (US) Moby that 402 was one of Merc's least favorable engines and was not a screamer. I bet a modern 25 would keep up with it and have the same oomph.
Moby Dick	posted 07-31-2010 05:39 PM ET (US) I agree the Merc 402 was a piece of @%&* but it would push the 13 to 34 MPH. No 25 would keep up with that. It would run with the 35 Johnson's although they could pull skiers and tubes better.
macfam	posted 08-01-2010 08:14 AM ET (US) Friday I had 4 adults and 3 kids in the 13' Super Sport plus a full cooler and beach stuff (wow was it crowded!) Anyway, I was amazed that the 30 E-TEC picked up and got on plane with that load! It was working pretty hard I'm sure, but it moved right along.
sonnie	posted 08-01-2010 09:47 AM ET (US) My sons and I are looking for a 13. what about a tiller drive manual start 15 inch yamaha 25 2010?Any ideas out there how that would perform?
Tohsgib	posted 08-02-2010 11:01 AM ET (US) Light load would fetch low 20's.
Seminole Jack	posted 08-02-2010 03:23 PM ET (US) The appropriate motor for a 13 footer with a 15" transom would be the 31.8cu. in. OMC built from 1978 to 2005. Plenty of them around if you want to take the time to find a low hour fresh water one. They were built in 20-25-30 and 35hp versions. Only difference is the carb. The 20 hp also has a different intake manifold and is to low powered anyway. Ran the 25hp on a 13 footer years ago, with plenty of power to ski (one teen age girl) If you want new than the 25hp Merc/Tohatsu would be a good choice as far as I`m concerned. Not alot of torque, and might not pull a skier, but with a 9 inch pitch prop it will run 28-29mph GP S at 6000rpm with myself 200lbs. and two 115lb. women.(hard to find 115 lb women nowadays) When I`m alone I run an 11" pitch and will run 29-30 mph.5900rpm GPS. Although its a pain to switch props for 1 mph difference, The 9" pitch prop with over rev. with me alone (6200rpm). I also hang a 40 lb trolling motor on a bracket on the stern. Motor is 157lbs, plus trolling motor equalls 197 lbs. Interior is moved forward 6", and rear thwart is raised so two 60 lbs batterys(one for trolling motor) and the 6 gallon fuel tank fits under seat. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/ Whaler%20with%20Mercury/WHALER8.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/ Whaler%20with%20Mercury/Whalermerc5.jpg Jack