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Author Topic:   Engine Controls: One Lever v. Two Lever

jimh posted 12-31-2010 12:32 PM ET (US)
I recall back in the 1960's that our outboard boat had remote controls with two levers: one lever for throttle and one for shift. The controls were side-mounting, and the throttle lever was taller than the shift lever. In the 50-years since then, it seems like most outboard controls have evolved into single-lever controls, where the throttle and shift control are combined into a single operating control.
I was giving some idle thought to what sort of remote controls I could install on my boat if I were to upgrade from the current single-lever OMC top-mounting control the boat has now. By far the sexiest and most modern looking controls tend to be two-lever controls.
Since it has been many decades since I ran an outboard with two-lever controls, I don't have much memory of how it worked. I would like to hear comments on two-lever versus one-lever controls for outboard motors. If anyone has any recent experience using a two-lever control for an outboard motor, let me have you comments. Heck, even old memories of two-lever controls are welcome.
Would installing a two-lever control for an outboard be blasphemy?
contender posted 12-31-2010 04:56 PM ET (US)
I had two-lever controls on my 17 Whaler since 1985. I installed a Teleflex control two-lever. I just changed back to a one-lever because my old [controls] looked bad, and a friend gave me the single-lever--otherwise I would use a dual lever again. The engine in gear or take it out of gear. With one lever you have to either pull the lever out or move something to start the engine--more gas. I know this has change with the four-cycle engines. Two levers also seem to make the driver more cautious when coming to the dock and ramp. [They] make you think more. You have to place a neutral safety switch on the gear side--not a big deal. I know that OMC outboards are very easy to convert to a dual-lever control. There are numerous companies out there that are still producing the dual lever set up. I think they are better made than the factory ones. They seem to be made of brass, chrome or custom. Morse, Teleflex, Kobelt to name a few. I also have an 11-foot Boston Whaler boat from my son with a Yamaha 25. I custom made a bracket that fits on the side of the Yamaha to use the Evinrude dual-lever simplex side-mount controls. To me two lever controls on a boat just look better. Happy New Year.
JMARTIN posted 12-31-2010 06:51 PM ET (US)
For a Revenge, I much prefer a side-mount control over a top-mount. One hand on the wheel, the other on the throttle, gripped low, with your arm resting on the seat's arm rest.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d137/jmartin-/Johnspics038.jpg
A flush mount side control might be better, but I am not a fan of the "push the button to advance throttle in neutral" type.
In nasty conditions, where you are making numerous throttle changes, having your arm way forward and up reaching for a top mount control lever, all the while bouncing around, well it seems a little awkward, just like this last sentence.
What are the pros to two levers other than looks?
John
ConB posted 12-31-2010 08:37 PM ET (US)
The only problem with one-lever versus two-lever controls that I recall was switching back and forth between the two.
I now try not to test my mind with stuff that could cause me to crash into a dock.
Any one here droven a boat that the shift lever went forward to put the transmission into reverse?
Con
pcrussell50 posted 12-31-2010 08:38 PM ET (US)
My first ever boat, a 1960, 13-foot fiberglass runabout with a 1959 Johnson Super Seahorse 35-HP, had a dual lever control. I had that boat for three months before I bought my second boat, which had a single-lever control. As a new boater, I found the single lever easier and more intuitive, particularly in reverse, where with the two-lever system, you pull the shift knob aft and then do the throttle lever forward. As I got more stick time at the helm of my boats, it eventually became a non-issue. I eventually sold that boat a year after I bought my 1985 13 Sport. It was a neat toy that I often chose over the Whaler on beautiful days. It got tons of positive attention because it was classic but functional and reliable. It looked good but not a show queen. But it was NO Whaler in terms of seaworthiness, and within six months of my wife turning up preggers, I sold her. The new owner is a young single guy who takes her out at 9 p.m. and stays out all night, hoop netting for lobster and fishing the kelp--with a 51-year-old carburetor 2-stroke. That was my first real lesson in my [over] 40 years of life of "they don't build'em like they use to." Sorry for the ramble. Back to the topic: I wouldn't go out of my way to rig up separate throttle and shift. It DOES offer simpler linkage setup if you are serious about DIY.
-Peter
contender posted 12-31-2010 10:05 PM ET (US)
Peter: The only difference between two-lever and one-lever is the connection point at the controls, you do not need any other hardware or special connections--same cables, same distance, same ends. One lever uses a cam that catches the second cable when put in gear. The dual lever pushes the gear in place with one lever then the second lever does the gas, no more no less. Between a [top-mount] two-lever or one-lever the ONLY difference is the extra lever and the operation: one lever has a push in pull out for more gas on starting of the engine. I prefer the double-lever because you are only moving one cable at a time at neutral for shifting in and out of gear. If you drift fish in any type of current you would greatly appreciate the dual levers.
Con: can not happen unless you force it to do this and then you would hear the grinding of your gears or blow your engine lower unit. Would be like driving on the expressway then shift your car into reverse.
If dual levers were out of date and non-useful, why do companies continue to make them and make improvements on them? They are also constructed of better materials than factory items. I have a Kobelt dual-lever that is made of only brass and chrome over brass, made in the USA.
daveweight posted 01-01-2011 05:13 AM ET (US)
We went one step further and swapped from a one-lever to a one-lever for gear shifting and a Hotfoot foot throttle. The seperation of functions works really well for us with docking being a breeze and powering up and down in choppy seas being very controlled.
Dave Weight
conch posted 01-01-2011 10:39 AM ET (US)
If guests sometimes operate your boat a single lever control helps to ensure that the engine RPM will be at idle before the shift is made.
However I prefer dual levers and feel they operate a bit more smoothly moving only one cable.
Chuck
elaelap posted 01-01-2011 02:58 PM ET (US)
I have two-lever controls for my sailboat's little Volvo engine, throttle starboard-side of the compass binnacle, gear shift to port. Since my boat has a folding prop which works via centrifugal force, it's important that I pause in neutral for a significant amount of time--two or three seconds--when shifting from forward to reverse (or vice versa). This makes for a somewhat rubbing-your-belly-while-patting-your-head type of two-handed operation, clumsy until you get the hang of it and downright hairy sometimes docking in my two-boat slip in strong current and/or and breezy situations (both of which are common, even in my marina, on the San Francisco Bay). I'm spoiled by my Whaler's outboard's easy single-lever control, and the ease with which one is able to move swiftly and immediately back and forth between forward and reverse, helped along with the cleverly designed detent on either side of the shift points. I can really see no reason to have twin-lever controls on a small outboard motorboat if it can possibly be avoided.
Tony
pcrussell50 posted 01-01-2011 06:21 PM ET (US)
Oh yes, the hot foot situation. I forgot to mention my padded v-hull, fast lake boat. It has hot foot throttle with a shift-only lever. That setup is also really easy to use and intuitive. Its also HUGELY neccessary to have both hands on the wheel when you are balancing the hull on the pad above 60mph, and a foot throttle is all but vital for that.
-Peter
Tohsgib posted 01-01-2011 08:45 PM ET (US)
I have dual lever Morse type controls on my 13'. It is easy to use but takes a while to get used to it being the boat is so light. The slightest throttle moves it much so trying to shift, steer and throttle takes some skill. Would be MUCH easier on a larger boat and would work much better than a single as well.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/BiggieFL/1981-13Whaler/030.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/BiggieFL/1981-13Whaler/029.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/BiggieFL/1981-13Whaler/028.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/BiggieFL/1981-13Whaler/034.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/BiggieFL/1981-13Whaler/031.jpg
contender posted 01-01-2011 09:49 PM ET (US)
Tohsgib: very nice clean boat, I have never seen a binnacle mount on a 13 before. [Changed TOPIC to begin a discussion of Nick's boat. Please start a new thread to discuss Nick's boat. This thread is discussing the use of dual-lever remote controls. Thanks.--jimh]
elaelap posted 01-02-2011 02:38 AM ET (US)
[Commented on Nick's boat.]
Waterwonderland posted 01-02-2011 11:15 AM ET (US)
As my fading memory serves me, I remember the two controls being a pain in the butt. Typically they were pretty stiff and not as smooth as the single levers of today. It wasn't too difficult to move from one lever to the other but it was an extra step and a small reach to go from one to the other. Responding quickly to something like a docking situation seemed much easier on the single. A dual binnacle mount would probably be easier than the side mount but I prefer using a side mount over a binnacle.
contender posted 01-02-2011 08:53 PM ET (US)
Water: If your controls were stiff it was a sign that the cables were bad, cracked or clogged. Dual lever controls move one cable at a time so it is easier to move them. Everything being correct, it should have taken 1/2 the force to move each one of the levers, you just had to do it twice once for the gear and once for the gas. Also, control cables of the past were not as good as the ones made today.
Waterwonderland posted 01-02-2011 11:20 PM ET (US)
Contender - I am sure they are better than what they were 40 or 50 years ago. Come to think of it I don't remember any stiffness in the ones I used 20 to 30 years ago, so maybe the older one just needed an adjustment. I haven't noticed any problem with any single levers that I have used, but that is a sampling of under ten.
I still prefer using only one action instead of two to accomplish the same task.
macfam posted 01-03-2011 07:49 AM ET (US)
Our first family boat was a 16' Old Town lapstreak with a 40ph Johnson, and two lever controls. When that is all you know.....it’s all you know.
However, our uncle had a 16 or 17' Hi-Liner with a 45 Mercury, and the "new" single lever control. Plus, his lower unit no longer had the "bullet shaped gear case" that loved to snag weeds.
Mercury in those years was the innovator. Once you used that “new” single lever control, you realized the ease and superior control especially when docking.
The “coolness factor” was HUGE! Approach the dock at 45 degree angle. Spin the wheel toward the dock and hit reverse and throttle and just glide up to the dock with perfection………..Ooo……you wanna see that again?
Once the Old Town was passed on to a boys club on Cape Cod, the next boat was a used 1964 Nauset. And I ended up repowering with a Mercury, AND a single lever control.
I have never had dual controls again. Even the 28 with the 315 Yanmar diesel is single lever control. And a bow thruster………a little more “coolness factor”.

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Author	Topic: Engine Controls: One Lever v. Two Lever
jimh	posted 12-31-2010 12:32 PM ET (US) I recall back in the 1960's that our outboard boat had remote controls with two levers: one lever for throttle and one for shift. The controls were side-mounting, and the throttle lever was taller than the shift lever. In the 50-years since then, it seems like most outboard controls have evolved into single-lever controls, where the throttle and shift control are combined into a single operating control. I was giving some idle thought to what sort of remote controls I could install on my boat if I were to upgrade from the current single-lever OMC top-mounting control the boat has now. By far the sexiest and most modern looking controls tend to be two-lever controls. Since it has been many decades since I ran an outboard with two-lever controls, I don't have much memory of how it worked. I would like to hear comments on two-lever versus one-lever controls for outboard motors. If anyone has any recent experience using a two-lever control for an outboard motor, let me have you comments. Heck, even old memories of two-lever controls are welcome. Would installing a two-lever control for an outboard be blasphemy?
contender	posted 12-31-2010 04:56 PM ET (US) I had two-lever controls on my 17 Whaler since 1985. I installed a Teleflex control two-lever. I just changed back to a one-lever because my old [controls] looked bad, and a friend gave me the single-lever--otherwise I would use a dual lever again. The engine in gear or take it out of gear. With one lever you have to either pull the lever out or move something to start the engine--more gas. I know this has change with the four-cycle engines. Two levers also seem to make the driver more cautious when coming to the dock and ramp. [They] make you think more. You have to place a neutral safety switch on the gear side--not a big deal. I know that OMC outboards are very easy to convert to a dual-lever control. There are numerous companies out there that are still producing the dual lever set up. I think they are better made than the factory ones. They seem to be made of brass, chrome or custom. Morse, Teleflex, Kobelt to name a few. I also have an 11-foot Boston Whaler boat from my son with a Yamaha 25. I custom made a bracket that fits on the side of the Yamaha to use the Evinrude dual-lever simplex side-mount controls. To me two lever controls on a boat just look better. Happy New Year.
JMARTIN	posted 12-31-2010 06:51 PM ET (US) For a Revenge, I much prefer a side-mount control over a top-mount. One hand on the wheel, the other on the throttle, gripped low, with your arm resting on the seat's arm rest. http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d137/jmartin-/Johnspics038.jpg A flush mount side control might be better, but I am not a fan of the "push the button to advance throttle in neutral" type. In nasty conditions, where you are making numerous throttle changes, having your arm way forward and up reaching for a top mount control lever, all the while bouncing around, well it seems a little awkward, just like this last sentence. What are the pros to two levers other than looks? John
ConB	posted 12-31-2010 08:37 PM ET (US) The only problem with one-lever versus two-lever controls that I recall was switching back and forth between the two. I now try not to test my mind with stuff that could cause me to crash into a dock. Any one here droven a boat that the shift lever went forward to put the transmission into reverse? Con
pcrussell50	posted 12-31-2010 08:38 PM ET (US) My first ever boat, a 1960, 13-foot fiberglass runabout with a 1959 Johnson Super Seahorse 35-HP, had a dual lever control. I had that boat for three months before I bought my second boat, which had a single-lever control. As a new boater, I found the single lever easier and more intuitive, particularly in reverse, where with the two-lever system, you pull the shift knob aft and then do the throttle lever forward. As I got more stick time at the helm of my boats, it eventually became a non-issue. I eventually sold that boat a year after I bought my 1985 13 Sport. It was a neat toy that I often chose over the Whaler on beautiful days. It got tons of positive attention because it was classic but functional and reliable. It looked good but not a show queen. But it was NO Whaler in terms of seaworthiness, and within six months of my wife turning up preggers, I sold her. The new owner is a young single guy who takes her out at 9 p.m. and stays out all night, hoop netting for lobster and fishing the kelp--with a 51-year-old carburetor 2-stroke. That was my first real lesson in my [over] 40 years of life of "they don't build'em like they use to." Sorry for the ramble. Back to the topic: I wouldn't go out of my way to rig up separate throttle and shift. It DOES offer simpler linkage setup if you are serious about DIY. -Peter
contender	posted 12-31-2010 10:05 PM ET (US) Peter: The only difference between two-lever and one-lever is the connection point at the controls, you do not need any other hardware or special connections--same cables, same distance, same ends. One lever uses a cam that catches the second cable when put in gear. The dual lever pushes the gear in place with one lever then the second lever does the gas, no more no less. Between a [top-mount] two-lever or one-lever the ONLY difference is the extra lever and the operation: one lever has a push in pull out for more gas on starting of the engine. I prefer the double-lever because you are only moving one cable at a time at neutral for shifting in and out of gear. If you drift fish in any type of current you would greatly appreciate the dual levers. Con: can not happen unless you force it to do this and then you would hear the grinding of your gears or blow your engine lower unit. Would be like driving on the expressway then shift your car into reverse. If dual levers were out of date and non-useful, why do companies continue to make them and make improvements on them? They are also constructed of better materials than factory items. I have a Kobelt dual-lever that is made of only brass and chrome over brass, made in the USA.
daveweight	posted 01-01-2011 05:13 AM ET (US) We went one step further and swapped from a one-lever to a one-lever for gear shifting and a Hotfoot foot throttle. The seperation of functions works really well for us with docking being a breeze and powering up and down in choppy seas being very controlled. Dave Weight
conch	posted 01-01-2011 10:39 AM ET (US) If guests sometimes operate your boat a single lever control helps to ensure that the engine RPM will be at idle before the shift is made. However I prefer dual levers and feel they operate a bit more smoothly moving only one cable. Chuck
elaelap	posted 01-01-2011 02:58 PM ET (US) I have two-lever controls for my sailboat's little Volvo engine, throttle starboard-side of the compass binnacle, gear shift to port. Since my boat has a folding prop which works via centrifugal force, it's important that I pause in neutral for a significant amount of time--two or three seconds--when shifting from forward to reverse (or vice versa). This makes for a somewhat rubbing-your-belly-while-patting-your-head type of two-handed operation, clumsy until you get the hang of it and downright hairy sometimes docking in my two-boat slip in strong current and/or and breezy situations (both of which are common, even in my marina, on the San Francisco Bay). I'm spoiled by my Whaler's outboard's easy single-lever control, and the ease with which one is able to move swiftly and immediately back and forth between forward and reverse, helped along with the cleverly designed detent on either side of the shift points. I can really see no reason to have twin-lever controls on a small outboard motorboat if it can possibly be avoided. Tony
pcrussell50	posted 01-01-2011 06:21 PM ET (US) Oh yes, the hot foot situation. I forgot to mention my padded v-hull, fast lake boat. It has hot foot throttle with a shift-only lever. That setup is also really easy to use and intuitive. Its also HUGELY neccessary to have both hands on the wheel when you are balancing the hull on the pad above 60mph, and a foot throttle is all but vital for that. -Peter
Tohsgib	posted 01-01-2011 08:45 PM ET (US) I have dual lever Morse type controls on my 13'. It is easy to use but takes a while to get used to it being the boat is so light. The slightest throttle moves it much so trying to shift, steer and throttle takes some skill. Would be MUCH easier on a larger boat and would work much better than a single as well. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/BiggieFL/1981-13Whaler/030.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/BiggieFL/1981-13Whaler/029.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/BiggieFL/1981-13Whaler/028.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/BiggieFL/1981-13Whaler/034.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/BiggieFL/1981-13Whaler/031.jpg
contender	posted 01-01-2011 09:49 PM ET (US) Tohsgib: very nice clean boat, I have never seen a binnacle mount on a 13 before. [Changed TOPIC to begin a discussion of Nick's boat. Please start a new thread to discuss Nick's boat. This thread is discussing the use of dual-lever remote controls. Thanks.--jimh]
elaelap	posted 01-02-2011 02:38 AM ET (US) [Commented on Nick's boat.]
Waterwonderland	posted 01-02-2011 11:15 AM ET (US) As my fading memory serves me, I remember the two controls being a pain in the butt. Typically they were pretty stiff and not as smooth as the single levers of today. It wasn't too difficult to move from one lever to the other but it was an extra step and a small reach to go from one to the other. Responding quickly to something like a docking situation seemed much easier on the single. A dual binnacle mount would probably be easier than the side mount but I prefer using a side mount over a binnacle.
contender	posted 01-02-2011 08:53 PM ET (US) Water: If your controls were stiff it was a sign that the cables were bad, cracked or clogged. Dual lever controls move one cable at a time so it is easier to move them. Everything being correct, it should have taken 1/2 the force to move each one of the levers, you just had to do it twice once for the gear and once for the gas. Also, control cables of the past were not as good as the ones made today.
Waterwonderland	posted 01-02-2011 11:20 PM ET (US) Contender - I am sure they are better than what they were 40 or 50 years ago. Come to think of it I don't remember any stiffness in the ones I used 20 to 30 years ago, so maybe the older one just needed an adjustment. I haven't noticed any problem with any single levers that I have used, but that is a sampling of under ten. I still prefer using only one action instead of two to accomplish the same task.
macfam	posted 01-03-2011 07:49 AM ET (US) Our first family boat was a 16' Old Town lapstreak with a 40ph Johnson, and two lever controls. When that is all you know.....it’s all you know. However, our uncle had a 16 or 17' Hi-Liner with a 45 Mercury, and the "new" single lever control. Plus, his lower unit no longer had the "bullet shaped gear case" that loved to snag weeds. Mercury in those years was the innovator. Once you used that “new” single lever control, you realized the ease and superior control especially when docking. The “coolness factor” was HUGE! Approach the dock at 45 degree angle. Spin the wheel toward the dock and hit reverse and throttle and just glide up to the dock with perfection………..Ooo……you wanna see that again? Once the Old Town was passed on to a boys club on Cape Cod, the next boat was a used 1964 Nauset. And I ended up repowering with a Mercury, AND a single lever control. I have never had dual controls again. Even the 28 with the 315 Yanmar diesel is single lever control. And a bow thruster………a little more “coolness factor”.