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Author Topic:   NAUSET Re-power

groovy posted 09-28-2011 11:58 AM ET (US)
In 2004 I received a 1964 [Boston Whaler NAUSET 16] from my grandparents after they passed way. I know the hull is rated for a 100-HP. Has a 115-HP outboard engine been used on a similar Boston Whaler boat?
If I re-power with a 90-HP four-cycle outboard engine, I'm concerned with the weight. The original Johnson 90-HP weighed 247-lbs. The new four-cycle outboard engines are close to 400-lbs.
The boat sat for 6 years. I have recently restored all of the original wood--looks great. Thanks
Groovy
tedious posted 09-28-2011 12:47 PM ET (US)
Modern motors, whether 2 or 4-stroke, are typically heavier and, since they are propeller-rated rather than powerhead-rated, more powerful for a given rated horsepower.
An E-TEC 90 would be a very good choice. It is a bit heavier at 320 pounds, but probably has more power at the propeller than your current motor. If you don't need that much oomph, the Yamaha F70 comes in at 260 pounds.
Tim
groovy posted 09-28-2011 01:08 PM ET (US)
An E-TEC 90 are two-cycle? If the are, it seems like the fresh water lake are making a move to ban two-cycle outboards.
Do you have any input for a four-cycle choice?
Thanks
John
jimh posted 09-29-2011 08:33 AM ET (US)
Please get out of your head the misguided notion that there is going to be a ban on two-cycle engine which will prevent the E-TEC from being used on certain waters.
tedious posted 09-29-2011 09:37 AM ET (US)
John, after doing some research, you'll find outboard technology is more appropriately broken down into modern, fuel-injected motors vs. older technology than into 2 vs. 4 stroke.
Modern, fuel-injected motors come in both 2 and 4 strokes, and all have very good emission ratings, excellent mileage, and low noise and odor compared to the older motors. I would recommend getting a modern, fuel-injected outboard for your boat, and as I mentioned, I think the best choice for the 16/17 hull is the eTec 90. At that horsepower point, it's the best combination of weight and power. For other boats, the choice would be different - for 15s wanting the max rated power, the best combination in a modern motor is Yamaha's F70 4-stroke.
At some point, I can see older motors (which were mostly 2-strokes) being banned in some places - if this is done sensibly (with governments involved, this is not a sure thing) it will be base on emission ratings, not by the underlying technology.
Tim
groovy posted 09-29-2011 02:17 PM ET (US)
Thanks, Tim! Outstanding information.. I think your correct, it will be emissions based not whether its a four or two stroke. One of the boat dealer was giving me bogus information. I'm going to look at the etec.
Thanks again
P.S. Is there link to post pictures on this site?
dfmcintyre posted 09-29-2011 07:03 PM ET (US)
John -
I go along with the others.... the E-TEC would be the way to go. I just watched a complete renovation and conversion of a 1966 Nauset. The first owner turned it over to his son last fall. He had a local shop (whom I've done 'glass work for, and where my boat is stored) do the job.
Like you, was considering a 4 stroke, but decided on the 90.
Here's a link:
http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/dfmcintyre/BOATS%20-%20ALL/ Whalers%20-%20other/
Regards - Don
jimh posted 09-29-2011 08:31 PM ET (US)
The E-TEC is an excellent outboard engine. I think that is why dealers and others are continually making up nonsense about the E-TEC and passing it off as facts. The E-TEC must be seen by dealers who sell other motors as a threat to their sales, so dealers and fans keep trying to spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt about the E-TEC.
BMack posted 09-30-2011 07:38 AM ET (US)
Take a look at the new model Suzuki DF90. The higher gear ratio improves performance.
Peter posted 09-30-2011 08:54 AM ET (US)
"The higher gear ratio improves performance."
Why?
tedious posted 09-30-2011 09:16 AM ET (US)
I like Suzuki's fresh thinking about outboards in general, and if you really, really gotta have a 4-stroke on a 16/17 the DF90 is worthy of consideration. However, to me it's questionable whether their use of a higher gear ratio swinging a larger prop would be a performance advantage, especially in a fairly light boat like a Whaler. I'm sure it would be great for skiing and other heavily-loaded situations, though.
Tim
jimh posted 09-30-2011 09:19 AM ET (US)
There was prior discussion on how gear ratio affects performance. The claim was made that the correct gear ratio for best performance is always the one used by Mercury. See
How Gear Ratio Affects Performance
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/006655.html
Gear ratio can affect what propeller will be used, and this can affect performance. This was also discussed at length in
Propeller Shaft Gear Ratio in Relation to Propeller Diameter, Pitch
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/007108.html
A corollary finding about propeller performance was also suggested, and it followed a similar line of thought: that the pitch-diameter ratio of a Mercury propeller was always the best possible choice. This, too, was discussed earlier. See
Mercury Prop Charts, Efficiency ratings
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/005887.html
jimh posted 09-30-2011 09:21 AM ET (US)
In some cases, a higher gear reduction will allow a propeller with larger pitch to be used. Also, in some Suzuki engines the propeller aperture is larger than in competitors' engines, which allows a propeller of larger diameter to be used. There is speculation that perhaps in some cases a propeller of larger pitch and larger diameter could possibly be more efficient than propellers of smaller diameter and smaller pitch.
groovy posted 09-30-2011 09:27 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the information guys.
Don, That's my boat with out the rear seat. That's I'm on this site, to get third party unbiased information.
Thanks again.
So no link to post pictures?
dfmcintyre posted 09-30-2011 03:11 PM ET (US)
John -
That would be the Nauset model...
Regarding a link. You can embed a link out to your (if you have one) Photobucket, Picassa, etc., account. It's easy. Copy the address, insert the following (including the brackets!) prior to pasting the saved address:
[url]
then paste the address and insert the following at the end of the address:
[/url]
Jim does not embed (except on rare occasion) images directly into the threads.
He's funny that way...
Regards - Don
pcrussell50 posted 09-30-2011 04:41 PM ET (US)
Groovy. I like the 90hp E-TEC also. In fact I like all the E-TECs. However, a repower discussion would not be complete without talking about cost. Modern motors purchased new are give or take, ten-times the cost per horsepower of the carbureted 2-strokes that are still in 100% reliable condition. If you are really motivated, you can get a carbureted 2-stroke for almost free, but you will probably have to do some work to a free one. You didn't say how old you are, but with a carbureted 2-stroke, you will have to know how and when to use a choke... same as you would on your chainsaw or weed wacker. For me, that is a small price to pay. Plus as an added bonus, I get to own FOUR, VERY fun, reliable boats for the cost of one brand new E-TEC 115 H.O.
-Peter

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Author	Topic: NAUSET Re-power
groovy	posted 09-28-2011 11:58 AM ET (US) In 2004 I received a 1964 [Boston Whaler NAUSET 16] from my grandparents after they passed way. I know the hull is rated for a 100-HP. Has a 115-HP outboard engine been used on a similar Boston Whaler boat? If I re-power with a 90-HP four-cycle outboard engine, I'm concerned with the weight. The original Johnson 90-HP weighed 247-lbs. The new four-cycle outboard engines are close to 400-lbs. The boat sat for 6 years. I have recently restored all of the original wood--looks great. Thanks Groovy
tedious	posted 09-28-2011 12:47 PM ET (US) Modern motors, whether 2 or 4-stroke, are typically heavier and, since they are propeller-rated rather than powerhead-rated, more powerful for a given rated horsepower. An E-TEC 90 would be a very good choice. It is a bit heavier at 320 pounds, but probably has more power at the propeller than your current motor. If you don't need that much oomph, the Yamaha F70 comes in at 260 pounds. Tim
groovy	posted 09-28-2011 01:08 PM ET (US) An E-TEC 90 are two-cycle? If the are, it seems like the fresh water lake are making a move to ban two-cycle outboards. Do you have any input for a four-cycle choice? Thanks John
jimh	posted 09-29-2011 08:33 AM ET (US) Please get out of your head the misguided notion that there is going to be a ban on two-cycle engine which will prevent the E-TEC from being used on certain waters.
tedious	posted 09-29-2011 09:37 AM ET (US) John, after doing some research, you'll find outboard technology is more appropriately broken down into modern, fuel-injected motors vs. older technology than into 2 vs. 4 stroke. Modern, fuel-injected motors come in both 2 and 4 strokes, and all have very good emission ratings, excellent mileage, and low noise and odor compared to the older motors. I would recommend getting a modern, fuel-injected outboard for your boat, and as I mentioned, I think the best choice for the 16/17 hull is the eTec 90. At that horsepower point, it's the best combination of weight and power. For other boats, the choice would be different - for 15s wanting the max rated power, the best combination in a modern motor is Yamaha's F70 4-stroke. At some point, I can see older motors (which were mostly 2-strokes) being banned in some places - if this is done sensibly (with governments involved, this is not a sure thing) it will be base on emission ratings, not by the underlying technology. Tim
groovy	posted 09-29-2011 02:17 PM ET (US) Thanks, Tim! Outstanding information.. I think your correct, it will be emissions based not whether its a four or two stroke. One of the boat dealer was giving me bogus information. I'm going to look at the etec. Thanks again P.S. Is there link to post pictures on this site?
dfmcintyre	posted 09-29-2011 07:03 PM ET (US) John - I go along with the others.... the E-TEC would be the way to go. I just watched a complete renovation and conversion of a 1966 Nauset. The first owner turned it over to his son last fall. He had a local shop (whom I've done 'glass work for, and where my boat is stored) do the job. Like you, was considering a 4 stroke, but decided on the 90. Here's a link: http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/dfmcintyre/BOATS%20-%20ALL/ Whalers%20-%20other/ Regards - Don
jimh	posted 09-29-2011 08:31 PM ET (US) The E-TEC is an excellent outboard engine. I think that is why dealers and others are continually making up nonsense about the E-TEC and passing it off as facts. The E-TEC must be seen by dealers who sell other motors as a threat to their sales, so dealers and fans keep trying to spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt about the E-TEC.
BMack	posted 09-30-2011 07:38 AM ET (US) Take a look at the new model Suzuki DF90. The higher gear ratio improves performance.
Peter	posted 09-30-2011 08:54 AM ET (US) "The higher gear ratio improves performance." Why?
tedious	posted 09-30-2011 09:16 AM ET (US) I like Suzuki's fresh thinking about outboards in general, and if you really, really gotta have a 4-stroke on a 16/17 the DF90 is worthy of consideration. However, to me it's questionable whether their use of a higher gear ratio swinging a larger prop would be a performance advantage, especially in a fairly light boat like a Whaler. I'm sure it would be great for skiing and other heavily-loaded situations, though. Tim
jimh	posted 09-30-2011 09:19 AM ET (US) There was prior discussion on how gear ratio affects performance. The claim was made that the correct gear ratio for best performance is always the one used by Mercury. See How Gear Ratio Affects Performance http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/006655.html Gear ratio can affect what propeller will be used, and this can affect performance. This was also discussed at length in Propeller Shaft Gear Ratio in Relation to Propeller Diameter, Pitch http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/007108.html A corollary finding about propeller performance was also suggested, and it followed a similar line of thought: that the pitch-diameter ratio of a Mercury propeller was always the best possible choice. This, too, was discussed earlier. See Mercury Prop Charts, Efficiency ratings http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/005887.html
jimh	posted 09-30-2011 09:21 AM ET (US) In some cases, a higher gear reduction will allow a propeller with larger pitch to be used. Also, in some Suzuki engines the propeller aperture is larger than in competitors' engines, which allows a propeller of larger diameter to be used. There is speculation that perhaps in some cases a propeller of larger pitch and larger diameter could possibly be more efficient than propellers of smaller diameter and smaller pitch.
groovy	posted 09-30-2011 09:27 AM ET (US) Thanks for the information guys. Don, That's my boat with out the rear seat. That's I'm on this site, to get third party unbiased information. Thanks again. So no link to post pictures?
dfmcintyre	posted 09-30-2011 03:11 PM ET (US) John - That would be the Nauset model... Regarding a link. You can embed a link out to your (if you have one) Photobucket, Picassa, etc., account. It's easy. Copy the address, insert the following (including the brackets!) prior to pasting the saved address: [url] then paste the address and insert the following at the end of the address: [/url] Jim does not embed (except on rare occasion) images directly into the threads. He's funny that way... Regards - Don
pcrussell50	posted 09-30-2011 04:41 PM ET (US) Groovy. I like the 90hp E-TEC also. In fact I like all the E-TECs. However, a repower discussion would not be complete without talking about cost. Modern motors purchased new are give or take, ten-times the cost per horsepower of the carbureted 2-strokes that are still in 100% reliable condition. If you are really motivated, you can get a carbureted 2-stroke for almost free, but you will probably have to do some work to a free one. You didn't say how old you are, but with a carbureted 2-stroke, you will have to know how and when to use a choke... same as you would on your chainsaw or weed wacker. For me, that is a small price to pay. Plus as an added bonus, I get to own FOUR, VERY fun, reliable boats for the cost of one brand new E-TEC 115 H.O. -Peter