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Author Topic:   OUTRAGE 18 Re-power

vin1722or posted 11-13-2011 09:41 AM ET (US)
I just bought a 1981 OUTRAGE 18. I am going to have to re-power it. I am thinking of getting a Yamaha F115 or F150 [four-cycle outboard engine]. [Asks other owners of OUTRAGE 18 with Yamaha F115 or Yamaha F150 to give] performance [information]. I can also get a new Yamaha 150-HP two-cycle for about $3,000 less than a F150. I am not sure if I want to go [with a two-cycle outboard engine].--Vin
Perry posted 11-13-2011 11:38 AM ET (US)
The F115 would be good only if you boat with one or two aboard with a light load. The F150 would be a better choice in my opinion. [Speculates about what others might recommend. --jimh]
Tohsgib posted 11-13-2011 11:47 AM ET (US)
The F115 will do 40-MPH, the 150 45-MPH [or more]. If top speed is not your need the 115 will be plenty even with a heavy load. My 19 Revenge is heavier than your boat and my 115 Suzuki gets six people and a full tank out of the hole no problem.
Phil T posted 11-13-2011 11:58 AM ET (US)
Vin--In addition to Nick's information, do a search on F115 and Tony. You will have your answer. As an owner of a Yamaha F115, I can say it has been a low maintenance and very reliable engine.
vin1722or posted 11-13-2011 12:09 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the [replies]. [The re-power must be] a Yamaha outboard. I like the performance of a two-cycle engine, but I like the fuel economy of a four-cycle engine and its longevity over the two-cycle enigne. There is a price difference to consider, also. Please some performance specificatioin from owners.
Tom W Clark posted 11-13-2011 12:19 PM ET (US)
The Yamaha F115 on a classic Outrage 18 is good for a top speed of about 40-MPH.
The Yamaha F150 is good for about 48-MPH.
The F150 will set the stern little low in the water for my tastes while the F115 weighs no more than a classic two-cycle V-6.
Both motors are very well regarded and have sold very well.
Tom W Clark posted 11-13-2011 12:23 PM ET (US)
Four-cycle outboard engines do not have an economy or durablity advantage over modern DFI two-cycle outboard engines, nor are they any cleaner.
Really, you would have a hard time buying a 115 HP or 150 HP outboard, from any manufacturer producing one today, that was not a great outboard motor.
Peter posted 11-13-2011 12:23 PM ET (US)
You don't need an E-TEC but an F150 is too much weight on the transom in my view having owned two Outrage 18 boats over the past 20 years.
The Revenge 19 hull from the 1970s does not have a power consuming pointed V hull at the stern so its not a great comparison to the Outrage 18 as far as performance goes.
If it has to be a Yamaha, at $3,000 less (before sales tax), I would go for the 150 two-cycloe outboard engine, although the Yamaha is heavy compared to other brands. It will last as long as any 4-stroke ever will and perhaps longer. On an average hourly basis, the 150 2-stroke will consume about 2 GPH more than the F150 at any given operating speed. At $4.00 per gallon, it will cost you about $8 per hour more for the 2-stroke 150 and you will need to run 375 hours before your hit the break even point. If you run like the average boat, less than 50 hours per season, it will take you over 7 seasons to recoup the cost of the 4-stroke at $4 per gallon.
Be prepared for some folks telling you without any analysis that 4-strokes have better resale value. Don't fall for it.
vin1722or posted 11-13-2011 12:47 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the [replies]. I am leaning towards the two-cycle 150 Yamaha at this point but still open to other options. I have to install a new tank and few other [components], and have time to consider the engine choice. The two-cycle 150 leftover engines are still around but once they are gone they will be impossible to get.--Vinny
jimh posted 11-13-2011 02:43 PM ET (US)
I don't think there is a four-cycle outboard engine of 150-HP that has lasted more than ten years. There are two-cycle outboard engines of 150-HP that are 25-years old. That's the real situation of longevity. Check back in 15 years to see if any of the four-cycle 150-HP outboard engines have made it to 25-years of operational life.
vin1722or posted 11-13-2011 03:12 PM ET (US)
Jim--I am not a big fan of four-cycle outboards. I always loved the sound, performance, and ease of service of a two-cycle over a four-cycle. I am not talking DFI engines. I like carburetor two-cycle engines--just me. I am leaning towards a brand new two-cycle Yamaha 150-HP carburetor engine. There are some left, so, if I am going to go that route, I will need to decide soon. Thanks for the help. This site has been great help with a lot of my questions and problems ovet the last two years.
vin1722or posted 11-13-2011 03:16 PM ET (US)
Phil--I have a 115 Yamaha 2-stroke on my 1994 Outrage 17. I feel that it would be a little light on power on an 18-footer. What performance do you see with your 115 on your 17-footer at WOT. I get 42- to 43-MPH at WOT with my setup.
L H G posted 11-13-2011 05:02 PM ET (US)
Go with the Yamaha 2-stroke 150 that others have recommended. A friend has a 1992 on a similar Outrage, and 20 years later it runs, and runs, and runs. No problems at all other than occassional carburetor cleaning service.
Phil T posted 11-13-2011 06:20 PM ET (US)
Vin--I see 43- to 44-MPH at 5,400-RPM (6,000 is WOT) on my 1991 Outrage 17. I have the Yamaha F115 mounted two-holes-up and it is turning a Yamaha 17 pitch stainless steel prop.
I rarely see conditions that allow WOT speed in the summer, mostly in late fall or early spring.
BMack posted 11-13-2011 08:25 PM ET (US)
I have a Suzuki DF115 on my 1987 Outrage 18. The Suzuki DF115 has plenty of power and will plane my boat quickly under any loading conditions. The Suzuki DF115 and DF140 have higher gear ratios that can turn a larger propeller. I have a 20-inch Suzuki SS proeller on my engine. Personally, I would only consider a four-cycle engine.
Perry posted 11-14-2011 01:50 AM ET (US)
Since you are a fan of classic 2 stroke motors and Yamaha the Yamaha 150 2 stroke seems to be a no brainer.
I've spent many hours on a Outrage 18 with a 115 mercaha 4 stroke and in the big blue ocean where I fish, it was not nearly powerful enough. Especially with a heavy load.
150 HP is a good choice.
vin1722or posted 11-14-2011 04:05 PM ET (US)
The 150 YAMAHA 2-stroke is what I have decided to buy for the 18'.Thanks for all the advise.
Peter posted 11-14-2011 05:43 PM ET (US)
Congratulations. I'm sure that the Yamaha 150 will provide you many years of good service on the Outrage 18.
ericflys posted 11-14-2011 10:54 PM ET (US)
Although it doesn't look like it's one your considering, if I was going with a Yami product for an Outrage 18, I would go with the F150 fourstroke. I have three friends with this motor on their Outrages, and they all love them. The weight is not a problem. If you like, I can e-mail you pic of one the F150 powered boats floating next to mine which is powered by an older twostroke that is lighter than the Yami twostroke you are considering. From my experience, I would not consider anything smaller than a 140hp outboard on an Outrage 18, but I may be carrying heavier loads than you do...
BMack posted 11-15-2011 04:57 PM ET (US)
My 18ft Outrage quickly planes even overloaded with the Suzuki Df115. I can run 60 miles round trip out of Cape Canaveral on 15 gallons of fuel. 150 2-stroke 20+ gallons for the same trip?
Tohsgib posted 11-16-2011 11:53 AM ET (US)
20? Try more like 25+. Not to mention trolling speeds where we burn less than a quart and hour and the 2 smoke will burn 2ish. At $4 a gallon you better think that 2 stroke over again and also consider resale. Not many people want 2 strokes. That $3k savings will not last long in both fuel and resale. A normal day for you will be more than double the fuel of the 4 stroke or a DFI engine.
elaelap posted 11-16-2011 12:14 PM ET (US)
A frequent discussion, with dozens of threads available via the local search engine.
I put 760 hours on a 1988 Outrage 18/Yamaha F115 in two years of salt water use and found the combination perfect, for me. About half the time I was cruising/fishing alone, and only infrequently did I have more than one passenger. Also, I used the boat in our often-lumpy ocean north of San Francisco, where it was only on rare occasions that I felt comfortable cruising at speeds exceeding 25-28 mph. My OR 18 jumped immediately onto plane, and on smooth water could just hit 40 mph wide open at 57-5800 turns with only me aboard; with one passenger I didn't notice a great deal of difference; but with more weight than that the boat became noticeably slower out of the hole and I'm sure its top end suffered. I think that if you often "carry a maximum load", Peter is correct and you might be happier with a stronger motor. Ditto if you make long, relatively high speed runs on smooth seas. I highly recommend the Suzuki 140 four stroke EFI, also. We've had one on two of our partnership banana 21s, and it's got plenty of power and we've experienced exactly NO problems whatsoever in over 1100 hours of tough, salt water use. I think this motor might be great on a classic Outrage 18. I especially want to applaud Suzuki for the motor's anti-corrosion capabilities: our partnership boats are kept in a salt water slip eight or nine months per year, and the motor still looks almost as good as brand new.
Tony
vin1722or posted 11-16-2011 02:23 PM ET (US)
Well the yamaha 150 2-stroke I was buying was sold by the time I decided to buy it.Now I am thinking of a F-150,I am concerned of the weight making her sit low in the stern.ERICFLYS can you send me some pic's of the stern of the 18 with a f-150? email is best vinny@waterfrontmarine.com
Thanks
Peter posted 11-16-2011 03:59 PM ET (US)
"Well the yamaha 150 2-stroke I was buying was sold by the time I decided to buy it."
I guess not many people want a 2-stroke, right Nick? ;)
I've already done the math on fuel savings. The F-150 will burn about 2 GPH less per hour at any engine speed versus the 2-stroke 150. You'll need to run 375 hours before you burn $3,000 in extra fuel at $4 per gallon.
My advice to Vin -- keep a sharp lookout for a slightly used Yamaha 150 2-stroke probably going for 2/3s price of new and buy it. Under that scenario, it will take a life time of use before a new F-150 pays for itself through 2 GPH fuel savings.
BMack posted 11-16-2011 09:32 PM ET (US)
The Yamaha F150 will add an additional 70 lbs over a 115 4-stroke. I would not want this additional engine weight on my 18 ft Outrage in open ocean chop. Yamaha has redesigned the F115 for 2012 claiming improved performance. Also, a F150 may move you toward hydraulic steering adding additional complexity, cost, and weight.

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Author	Topic: OUTRAGE 18 Re-power
vin1722or	posted 11-13-2011 09:41 AM ET (US) I just bought a 1981 OUTRAGE 18. I am going to have to re-power it. I am thinking of getting a Yamaha F115 or F150 [four-cycle outboard engine]. [Asks other owners of OUTRAGE 18 with Yamaha F115 or Yamaha F150 to give] performance [information]. I can also get a new Yamaha 150-HP two-cycle for about $3,000 less than a F150. I am not sure if I want to go [with a two-cycle outboard engine].--Vin
Perry	posted 11-13-2011 11:38 AM ET (US) The F115 would be good only if you boat with one or two aboard with a light load. The F150 would be a better choice in my opinion. [Speculates about what others might recommend. --jimh]
Tohsgib	posted 11-13-2011 11:47 AM ET (US) The F115 will do 40-MPH, the 150 45-MPH [or more]. If top speed is not your need the 115 will be plenty even with a heavy load. My 19 Revenge is heavier than your boat and my 115 Suzuki gets six people and a full tank out of the hole no problem.
Phil T	posted 11-13-2011 11:58 AM ET (US) Vin--In addition to Nick's information, do a search on F115 and Tony. You will have your answer. As an owner of a Yamaha F115, I can say it has been a low maintenance and very reliable engine.
vin1722or	posted 11-13-2011 12:09 PM ET (US) Thanks for the [replies]. [The re-power must be] a Yamaha outboard. I like the performance of a two-cycle engine, but I like the fuel economy of a four-cycle engine and its longevity over the two-cycle enigne. There is a price difference to consider, also. Please some performance specificatioin from owners.
Tom W Clark	posted 11-13-2011 12:19 PM ET (US) The Yamaha F115 on a classic Outrage 18 is good for a top speed of about 40-MPH. The Yamaha F150 is good for about 48-MPH. The F150 will set the stern little low in the water for my tastes while the F115 weighs no more than a classic two-cycle V-6. Both motors are very well regarded and have sold very well.
Tom W Clark	posted 11-13-2011 12:23 PM ET (US) Four-cycle outboard engines do not have an economy or durablity advantage over modern DFI two-cycle outboard engines, nor are they any cleaner. Really, you would have a hard time buying a 115 HP or 150 HP outboard, from any manufacturer producing one today, that was not a great outboard motor.
Peter	posted 11-13-2011 12:23 PM ET (US) You don't need an E-TEC but an F150 is too much weight on the transom in my view having owned two Outrage 18 boats over the past 20 years. The Revenge 19 hull from the 1970s does not have a power consuming pointed V hull at the stern so its not a great comparison to the Outrage 18 as far as performance goes. If it has to be a Yamaha, at $3,000 less (before sales tax), I would go for the 150 two-cycloe outboard engine, although the Yamaha is heavy compared to other brands. It will last as long as any 4-stroke ever will and perhaps longer. On an average hourly basis, the 150 2-stroke will consume about 2 GPH more than the F150 at any given operating speed. At $4.00 per gallon, it will cost you about $8 per hour more for the 2-stroke 150 and you will need to run 375 hours before your hit the break even point. If you run like the average boat, less than 50 hours per season, it will take you over 7 seasons to recoup the cost of the 4-stroke at $4 per gallon. Be prepared for some folks telling you without any analysis that 4-strokes have better resale value. Don't fall for it.
vin1722or	posted 11-13-2011 12:47 PM ET (US) Thanks for the [replies]. I am leaning towards the two-cycle 150 Yamaha at this point but still open to other options. I have to install a new tank and few other [components], and have time to consider the engine choice. The two-cycle 150 leftover engines are still around but once they are gone they will be impossible to get.--Vinny
jimh	posted 11-13-2011 02:43 PM ET (US) I don't think there is a four-cycle outboard engine of 150-HP that has lasted more than ten years. There are two-cycle outboard engines of 150-HP that are 25-years old. That's the real situation of longevity. Check back in 15 years to see if any of the four-cycle 150-HP outboard engines have made it to 25-years of operational life.
vin1722or	posted 11-13-2011 03:12 PM ET (US) Jim--I am not a big fan of four-cycle outboards. I always loved the sound, performance, and ease of service of a two-cycle over a four-cycle. I am not talking DFI engines. I like carburetor two-cycle engines--just me. I am leaning towards a brand new two-cycle Yamaha 150-HP carburetor engine. There are some left, so, if I am going to go that route, I will need to decide soon. Thanks for the help. This site has been great help with a lot of my questions and problems ovet the last two years.
vin1722or	posted 11-13-2011 03:16 PM ET (US) Phil--I have a 115 Yamaha 2-stroke on my 1994 Outrage 17. I feel that it would be a little light on power on an 18-footer. What performance do you see with your 115 on your 17-footer at WOT. I get 42- to 43-MPH at WOT with my setup.
L H G	posted 11-13-2011 05:02 PM ET (US) Go with the Yamaha 2-stroke 150 that others have recommended. A friend has a 1992 on a similar Outrage, and 20 years later it runs, and runs, and runs. No problems at all other than occassional carburetor cleaning service.
Phil T	posted 11-13-2011 06:20 PM ET (US) Vin--I see 43- to 44-MPH at 5,400-RPM (6,000 is WOT) on my 1991 Outrage 17. I have the Yamaha F115 mounted two-holes-up and it is turning a Yamaha 17 pitch stainless steel prop. I rarely see conditions that allow WOT speed in the summer, mostly in late fall or early spring.
BMack	posted 11-13-2011 08:25 PM ET (US) I have a Suzuki DF115 on my 1987 Outrage 18. The Suzuki DF115 has plenty of power and will plane my boat quickly under any loading conditions. The Suzuki DF115 and DF140 have higher gear ratios that can turn a larger propeller. I have a 20-inch Suzuki SS proeller on my engine. Personally, I would only consider a four-cycle engine.
Perry	posted 11-14-2011 01:50 AM ET (US) Since you are a fan of classic 2 stroke motors and Yamaha the Yamaha 150 2 stroke seems to be a no brainer. I've spent many hours on a Outrage 18 with a 115 mercaha 4 stroke and in the big blue ocean where I fish, it was not nearly powerful enough. Especially with a heavy load. 150 HP is a good choice.
vin1722or	posted 11-14-2011 04:05 PM ET (US) The 150 YAMAHA 2-stroke is what I have decided to buy for the 18'.Thanks for all the advise.
Peter	posted 11-14-2011 05:43 PM ET (US) Congratulations. I'm sure that the Yamaha 150 will provide you many years of good service on the Outrage 18.
ericflys	posted 11-14-2011 10:54 PM ET (US) Although it doesn't look like it's one your considering, if I was going with a Yami product for an Outrage 18, I would go with the F150 fourstroke. I have three friends with this motor on their Outrages, and they all love them. The weight is not a problem. If you like, I can e-mail you pic of one the F150 powered boats floating next to mine which is powered by an older twostroke that is lighter than the Yami twostroke you are considering. From my experience, I would not consider anything smaller than a 140hp outboard on an Outrage 18, but I may be carrying heavier loads than you do...
BMack	posted 11-15-2011 04:57 PM ET (US) My 18ft Outrage quickly planes even overloaded with the Suzuki Df115. I can run 60 miles round trip out of Cape Canaveral on 15 gallons of fuel. 150 2-stroke 20+ gallons for the same trip?
Tohsgib	posted 11-16-2011 11:53 AM ET (US) 20? Try more like 25+. Not to mention trolling speeds where we burn less than a quart and hour and the 2 smoke will burn 2ish. At $4 a gallon you better think that 2 stroke over again and also consider resale. Not many people want 2 strokes. That $3k savings will not last long in both fuel and resale. A normal day for you will be more than double the fuel of the 4 stroke or a DFI engine.
elaelap	posted 11-16-2011 12:14 PM ET (US) A frequent discussion, with dozens of threads available via the local search engine. I put 760 hours on a 1988 Outrage 18/Yamaha F115 in two years of salt water use and found the combination perfect, for me. About half the time I was cruising/fishing alone, and only infrequently did I have more than one passenger. Also, I used the boat in our often-lumpy ocean north of San Francisco, where it was only on rare occasions that I felt comfortable cruising at speeds exceeding 25-28 mph. My OR 18 jumped immediately onto plane, and on smooth water could just hit 40 mph wide open at 57-5800 turns with only me aboard; with one passenger I didn't notice a great deal of difference; but with more weight than that the boat became noticeably slower out of the hole and I'm sure its top end suffered. I think that if you often "carry a maximum load", Peter is correct and you might be happier with a stronger motor. Ditto if you make long, relatively high speed runs on smooth seas. I highly recommend the Suzuki 140 four stroke EFI, also. We've had one on two of our partnership banana 21s, and it's got plenty of power and we've experienced exactly NO problems whatsoever in over 1100 hours of tough, salt water use. I think this motor might be great on a classic Outrage 18. I especially want to applaud Suzuki for the motor's anti-corrosion capabilities: our partnership boats are kept in a salt water slip eight or nine months per year, and the motor still looks almost as good as brand new. Tony
vin1722or	posted 11-16-2011 02:23 PM ET (US) Well the yamaha 150 2-stroke I was buying was sold by the time I decided to buy it.Now I am thinking of a F-150,I am concerned of the weight making her sit low in the stern.ERICFLYS can you send me some pic's of the stern of the 18 with a f-150? email is best vinny@waterfrontmarine.com Thanks
Peter	posted 11-16-2011 03:59 PM ET (US) "Well the yamaha 150 2-stroke I was buying was sold by the time I decided to buy it." I guess not many people want a 2-stroke, right Nick? ;) I've already done the math on fuel savings. The F-150 will burn about 2 GPH less per hour at any engine speed versus the 2-stroke 150. You'll need to run 375 hours before you burn $3,000 in extra fuel at $4 per gallon. My advice to Vin -- keep a sharp lookout for a slightly used Yamaha 150 2-stroke probably going for 2/3s price of new and buy it. Under that scenario, it will take a life time of use before a new F-150 pays for itself through 2 GPH fuel savings.
BMack	posted 11-16-2011 09:32 PM ET (US) The Yamaha F150 will add an additional 70 lbs over a 115 4-stroke. I would not want this additional engine weight on my 18 ft Outrage in open ocean chop. Yamaha has redesigned the F115 for 2012 claiming improved performance. Also, a F150 may move you toward hydraulic steering adding additional complexity, cost, and weight.