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Author Topic:   2000 18 Dauntless, Honda 130
RDLavery posted 06-03-2012 09:36 AM ET (US)   Profile for RDLavery   Send Email to RDLavery  
Hi everyone. I am a new owner of an 2000 Dauntless 18 with a 130-HP Honda. I find [the boat] is a bit slow overall. I am getting about 32-MPH at the moment. What would be the optimal propeller for this boat and engine combo? I do realize that both boat and engine are heavy, but figured [the boat] should be a bit faster. The original owner had the propeller replaced with aluminum [after] he had damaged [the original]. I would appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks--Rich

Tom W Clark posted 06-03-2012 11:15 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
You need to provide a little more information for any useful comments to be made.

At what engine speed (RPM) are you seeing 32 MPH?

How are you measuring your speed?

Exactly what propeller are you using now? Brand? Material? Number of blades? Model? Pitch? Part number? Any of these would be helpful.

RDLavery posted 06-03-2012 01:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for RDLavery  Send Email to RDLavery     
Hi Tom

Good point, here is what I can tell you as the boat is not close by: 1)measuring by GPS for speed 2) 3blade -aluminum Mercury prop from what I can tell, and rpm is around 5300-5400. I am sorry I don't have size but can get it in the next day or so.

I realize that Stainless would probably work better, also for such a heavy boat, maybe the Honda is slightly under powered? Not sure I assume other owners have this engine this boat as it was standard for a time around 2000.

I hope this helps and will gather prop size tomorrow

Thanks, Rich

Tom W Clark posted 06-03-2012 01:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
No, the Honda BF130 was not "standard" at all on the 2000 Dauntless 18. In fact, this may be the first Dauntless 18 I have ever heard of powered with a Honda BF130.

At any rate, that boat should easily reach 40 MPH with 130 HP. The Dauntless 18 with a Mercury OptiMax 135 was capable of speeds in excess of 43 MPH.

Just look at your prop and see what size it is. That would be a good starting point.

Also does you boat have bottom paint?

Where do you boat?

Is your boat equipped with any significant accessories that add weight or drag, like a T-top or bait tank?

When you are able to hit 32 MPH are you by yourself, or do you have the whole family with you?

RDLavery posted 06-03-2012 04:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for RDLavery  Send Email to RDLavery     
Hi Tom--The boat does not have any extra things on it ie a T Top or Bait tank. This speed run was with my wife an 4 yr old daughter. The Honda runs very smooth but the top end seems lacking for sure. The boat does have bottom paint but it needs redoing at the end of the year, although not desperate. We do our boating on a fairly big lake in Ontario so we would rarely see anything bigger than 2ft chop.
And I would agree that we should see about 40-MPH out of the boat, hence the prop questions.
Thinking a 4 blade stainless might do it with right size, I am currently taking to my dealer about this but I thought I would get a better answer here on this forum.

Thanks,

Rich

Tom W Clark posted 06-03-2012 05:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Well, rough bottom paint *can* have a profound effect of boat speed so you should take a look at that.

What I am getting at is determining whether your low boat speed is the result of the wrong prop or a problem with your engine. Knowing what propeller is on there now will go a long way towards figuring that out.

No, a four blade prop is probably not what you want. With all due respect for your dealer, most outboard dealers are not knowledgeable about propping Whalers or setting the motors at the best height in the first place.

I would also like to know where the motor is mounted on the transom, in other words, which set of bolt hole in the motors mounting bracket are the mounting bolts going through?

RDLavery posted 06-03-2012 06:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for RDLavery  Send Email to RDLavery     
Right, the 4 blade was my thought, however I know nothing about proping a boat!

I will give more details tomorrow,

Regards

Rich

Perry posted 06-04-2012 12:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
I agree with Tom that it is importmnant to know what prop you currenty have on the motor. Also, are you trimming the motor up (out) to achieve max RPM?

Your motor should be mounted 2 holes up.

andrey320 posted 06-04-2012 02:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for andrey320  Send Email to andrey320     
That Honda should have a higher redline than 5400....
Tom W Clark posted 06-04-2012 02:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
The recommended WOT engine speed range of the 2000 Honda BF130 is 5000-6000 RPM.

I disagree that the motor should be mounted two holes up. That position should be considered the bare minimum height as that is where the factory rigged the Mercury's back then and is suitable for older propeller designs and aluminum props.

Any good stainless steel modern propeller will benefit from the motor being raised even higher.

masbama posted 06-04-2012 07:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for masbama  Send Email to masbama     
I have a Stiletto 4 blade on mine that seems to be a good fit. Then again; I do have a 150 Evinrude on the back.
Perry posted 06-04-2012 07:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
I suggested 2 holes up because 3 holes up is all the way up and 2 is a good place to start.
RDLavery posted 06-04-2012 08:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for RDLavery  Send Email to RDLavery     
Ok well, My dealer will take the prop off tomorrow and we can find the size as it is not visable anywhere on the outside, so it must be in the hub. The prop apparently has had a slight rebuild and The Honda is mounted on the third hole of the mounting bracket if that helps;as this was a question.
Also, I spoke with a Whaler dealer that has been a dealer for a long time and he says they fit the Mercury outboard engines on that similar boat with a [propeller whose pitch is] 17 and you should get about 40 to 43-MPH. He also asked what the performance was like. My response was the holeshot was reasonable but on the top end there was not much there.

Hope to get propeller size tomorrow. Thanks for everyone's comments.
Rich

Tom W Clark posted 06-04-2012 10:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
OK, there are three things that need clarification for anybody reading this thread. Bear with me.

- This Dauntless 18 is equipped with a 2000 Honda BF130. The old BF130 is unusual in that it uses an Intermediate size (4-1/4") gearcase, not a Large (4-3/4") gearcase. That right there cuts the number of propeller choices down to about 10 percent of what is available for Large gearcase motors.

- masbama, if I'm not mistaken, has a 150 HP Evinrude on his Dauntless 18. The Evinrude 150 has 20 more horsepower, a Large gearcase with a different gear ratio and a different redline. It is pointless to look at what propeller works well on his boat if we are trying to figure out what propeller will work well on this Honda BF130. They are completely different animals.

Likewise, the Mercury outboards that the Dauntless 18 was equipped with originally were all Large gearcase motors with different (in some cases) gear ratios and different RPM ranges. Yes, the 15-1/2" x 17" Mercury MIRAGEplus was the factory prop on the Dauntless 18 equipped with the OptiMax 135 back in 2000. But again, that is a completely different animal than a Honda BF130. You cannot even fit a MIRAGEplus on a BF130.

- The Honda BF130 has four sets of mounting holes. If the third set of holes (counting from the bottom) is being used then the motor is mounted one hole up. If the motor is mounted with the third set of holes (counting from the top) is used, then it mounted two holes up. Rich -- Which is it?

If we assume mounting the motor two holes up is the minimum height and there is only one more hole up to go, it is much more logical and efficient to move the motor all the way up, see if it works there and then move it down one hole, than to move it only two holes up and test it because if you do this you will never learn if three holes up is better without trying it. If you do move it all the way up, and it is too high, you move it back down.

Either way, you have moved the motor at least one more time than you would have if you moved it all the way up in the first place.

Perry posted 06-05-2012 03:05 AM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
A good 13.25 X 15 stainless 3 blade prop should get you close to 6000 RPM at WOT if you raise up your motor. And figuring in 8% slip and a 2 to 1 gear ratio, that equals around 40 MPH.
masbama posted 06-05-2012 09:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for masbama  Send Email to masbama     
What about a 13.25x16"? May be able to get a few more MPH out of her.
RDLavery posted 06-05-2012 10:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for RDLavery  Send Email to RDLavery     
Hi Everyone. To answer the mounting question the 3rd hole is where it is mounted, if 1 is at the top and 4 at the bottom. Still waiting to hear back from my Marina on the Prop size. Thanks--Rich
Perry posted 06-06-2012 03:05 AM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
So it appears to be mounted 1 hole up so you can raise it up one or 2 more bolt holes.
jimh posted 06-06-2012 07:00 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
It might be useful to discuss the 2000 HONDA 130-HP engine. I think this is an older design engine from HONDA, and it is not the same as the current HONDA 135-HP engine. I found an owner's manual for a BF130 at

http://marine.honda.com/pdf/manuals/31ZW5600.pdf

and the manual has these specifications for the XL (25-inch shaft) model:

Displacement = 2.254-liter or 137.5 cubic-inch
Weight = 507-lbs or 230-kg
Length = 32.5-inch
Width = 21.7-inch
Height = 69.9-inch
Gear ratio = (not specified)

In comparison the current model BF135 has these specifications:

Displacement = 2.354-liter or 144-cubic-inch
Weight = 485-lbs or 220-kg
Length = 33.3-inch
Width = 22.8-inch
Height = 70.5-inch
Gear ratio = 2.14:1

Source: http://marine.honda.com/pdf/manuals/31ZY6601.pdf

MOUNTING HEIGHT DIMENSION

This discussion seems to be getting bogged down in the dimension of mounting height. We measure mounting height in increments of 0.75-inch, or "one hole". We measure the mounting height from the lowest possible position. An engine in the lowest possible position is said to be mounted "as low as possible," and engines that are mounted higher are described as mounted "[one, two, three or perhaps four] holes up." In other words, mounted 0.75, 1.5, 2.25, or 3-inches higher than the lowest possible position. Whenever people talk about "the second hole" or "the third hole" the discussion becomes confused. Please just use the convention of speaking of the mounting height as I describe above.

Tom W Clark posted 06-06-2012 09:59 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
quote:
3rd hole is where it is mounted, if 1 is at the top and 4 at the bottom.

That suggests the motor is currently Two Holes Up, not just one. That is good. I can go up only one more hole.

o <-- Bolts through this hole, motor mounted All The Way Down
o <-- Bolts through this hole, motor mounted One Hole Up
o <-- Bolts through this hole, motor mounted Two Holes Up
o <-- Bolts through this hole, motor mounted Three Holes Up

Tom W Clark posted 06-06-2012 10:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Clearly, the motor mounting height of this motor has little, if anything, to do with the poor performance of this boat.

While we await word on what prop is on there now, let me make the case for it NOT being the problem.

We know a Dauntless 18 with 130 HP ought to be good for at least 40 MPH or more. Rich reports he can only get 32 MPH out if it. Asked about its performance, he writes:

quote:
...the holeshot was reasonable but on the top end there was not much there.

This suggests the boat is NOT overpropped for it it were, acceleration would be miserable, though top speed would be good.

OK, so maybe it's UNDERpropped? No way. WOT engine speed is only 5400 RPM on a motor with a 6000 RPM redline. An underpropped boat will exceed its redline.

Either the motor in only running on three cylinders and thus putting out only 3/4 or its rated power, and/or the bottom paint is really rough and killing the top speed. The difference between 32 and 40 MPH is HUGE.

Peter posted 06-06-2012 10:48 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Other possibilities, perhaps remote:

1. Tachometer is reading wrong;
2. Propeller hub is spun.

Tom W Clark posted 06-06-2012 10:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
If the tachometer is wrong. What is the true engine speed at 32 MPH? It would have to be very high.

If the hub were spun, the engine would exceed to its redline. It's the same as being underpropped.

M Gould posted 06-06-2012 10:58 AM ET (US)     Profile for M Gould  Send Email to M Gould     
To confirm above observations, I have an 1998 Dauntless 18 with original Optimax 135, approx 220 hrs, Mercury Mirage Prop, with full tank and 4-5 people, 3 batteries can hit 42 mph at 5500 rpm.
M Gould posted 06-06-2012 11:20 AM ET (US)     Profile for M Gould  Send Email to M Gould     
Engine is mounted two holes up, this is what affected performance the most. When I purchased it was all the way down.
RDLavery posted 06-06-2012 01:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for RDLavery  Send Email to RDLavery     
Ok so prop size is 13 3/4 15 aluminum after market prop , I hope this helps the discussion ! The engine is running all 4 cylinders and the bottom is in quite god shape according to my dealer. Thanks to everyone for their discussion points. I am hoping the prop issue can be cleared up! Regards Rich
Peter posted 06-06-2012 02:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Most modern motors have a rev limiter. So while a motor might exceed the upper limit of the WOT range, it won't exceed by more than a couple of hundred RPM because the rev limiter will kick in.

The 130 uses a 2:1 gear ratio. The numbers show a 16 percent slip if we assume that we are using statute miles per hour and the tachometer reading is accurate. If the speed is 32 Knots (37 MPH), then slip is 3.5 percent. Are we sure the speed reading isn't in Knots?

Tom W Clark posted 06-06-2012 03:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Peter makes two good points but it still cannot explain the difference in speed even *if* the tach is wrong *and* the speed was actually measured in knots.

Michael's Dauntless 18 with a 135 HP motor mounted two holes up does 42 MPH with 4-5 people onboard and three batteries.

Rich's Dauntless 18 with a 130 HP motor mounted two holes up does 32 MPH with his wife and child onboard.

If it takes 135 HP to push Michael's boat to 42 MPH it would only take 78 HP to push it to 32 MPH and only 72 HP if you took two passengers and a battery out of it.

Even if we assume the speed was actually measured in knots, not MPH and the true top speed was 37 MPH, it would take only 96 HP to get it there.

Something else is wrong and it's not the prop which is exactly the size prop I was expecting it to be.

So we have a puzzle. I think we need to eliminate the simple and obvious things first.

Rich,

- Can you confirm your GPS is calibrated in MPH and not knots?

- During your WOT test run, were you using the trim to trim the motor out as far as the prop could maintain grip?

- Is your "dealer," the one who reports the motor runs on all four cylinders and says the bottom is in good shape, also the one who recently sold you the boat?

I certainly think a better propeller can be used instead of a 15" aluminum but the improvement in performance will be marginal not radical. There's no way a simple prop swap will gain you 10 MPH unless that prop is badly mangled, so...

Next simple and obvious question -- Is the prop mangled or otherwise damaged?

RDLavery posted 06-06-2012 06:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for RDLavery  Send Email to RDLavery     
Ok well no damage to the prop, And the Marina has had a look at the engine and no problem, the bottom of the boat is in fine condition however it will require some bottom paint at the end of the season.
I am beginning to think that the engine itself is just the wrong power for the boat? Perhaps stainless is the way to go and get the extra 3-4 mph and be done with it?Oh and yes the speed was measured with a GPS. The only other thing I can think of is once the new RPM gauge is in that I have another look?
Thanks Everyone, Rich

M Gould posted 06-06-2012 08:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for M Gould  Send Email to M Gould     
Is it possible the the previous damaged the lower unit when he damaged the SS prop ? Although I would think this would affect holeshot. When the SS prop was damaged was the hull damaged and subsequently repaired ? Why was the original prop not repaired ? It would have been a similar cost to purchasing a new aluminum. Do you have access to the original SS prop ?
M Gould posted 06-06-2012 08:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for M Gould  Send Email to M Gould     
Sorry - Is it possible that the previous owner ...

(and my speed is by GPS)

Tom W Clark posted 06-06-2012 10:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
quote:
...the Marina has had a look at the engine and no problem...

You have a boat [ not inappropriately propped ] that is capable of rover 40 MPH and you're only getting 32 MPH out of it. You have a problem.

Let me ask these questions again:

- Can you confirm your GPS is calibrated in MPH and not knots?

- During your WOT test run, were you using the trim to trim the motor out as far as the prop could maintain grip?

RDLavery posted 06-07-2012 07:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for RDLavery  Send Email to RDLavery     
GPS is Calibrated in MPH and the boat was trimmed out, what is not sure here in all of this is the RPM and whether it is accurate and this is currently replaced. The engine runs well according to the marine dealer and there are no "problems" with it as far as they could see.

From what I have read in this form there are two things at play:

--RPM: need to find this out definitely;

--then prop size can be properly selected

I did not think that this was going to be a complicated process however this form has generated a lot of comments!

I hope to get the boat out this [unclear, perhaps meant "weekend"] for a few runs as it's not close by.

Rich

Tom W Clark posted 06-07-2012 09:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
If the question had originally simply been: What would be a good propeller for a Dauntless 18 with a Honda BF130? My answer would have been:

We know the Dauntless 18 was good for 42-44 MPH with the OptiMax 135 so with the Honda BF130 is ought to be able to do 40-42 MPH.

We also know the Honda BF130 has 2:1 gears and the 6000 RPM redline and we'd like to be close to that at WOT when lightly loaded.

We furthermore know that the Honda BF130 uses an intermediate (4-1/4") size gearcase so the propeller selection is rather small compared to large gearcase motors and Honda does not manufacture any propellers themselves; their propeller catalog features propellers from Taiwanese manufacturer Solas and U.S. manufacturers Precision Propeller Industries, Inc. and PowerTech. They even used to feature one propeller model, the Laser II, from Mercury Marine but have dropped it in recent years.

So the choice of a propeller for a Honda outboard is always going to be an aftermarket propeller.

Using Jim Hebert's handy propeller calculator [ http://continuouswave.com/cgi-bin/propcalc.pl ] we can plug in the knowns to find the likely pitch, which, if we assume 6000 RPM, 10 percent slip and 41 MPH, we see is about 16 inches. 10 percent slip is typical for an aluminum propeller, though I hate to generalize. Given the small blade area of an intermediate (4-1/4") size propeller on a boat the size of a Dauntless 18 which has to weigh 2500 to 3000 pounds, loaded, we would really expect to see propeller slip with an aluminum propeller to be much higher. Indeed, your own data suggests your current aluminum propeller is suffering from 16 percent propeller slip.

Using a good stainless steel propeller known for good grip will certainly result in lower slip numbers, and if we assume slip in the 0-5 percent range, the pitch then becomes about 15 inches.

From the Honda Propeller Catalog I would be inclined to select the 13-1/4" x 15" Turbo model, part # 08M60-ZW7-A00. This propeller is made by Precision Propeller Industries, Inc. (makers of Yamaha, Stiletto and Turbo brand props) and is the exact same propeller as the Turbo 1 and Stiletto Advantage.

Given the high weight-blade-area ratio, I would also consider a propeller with greater blade area and less rake to help compensate for the intermediate gearcase and the heavier boat. One such propeller is the Stiletto Star 4.25 (a.k.a. Turbo Pontoon 1 and Yamaha Pontoon Performance Series). The 14'' x 15" size should be a good fit.

However, if your boat is only doing 32 MPH with a 15" pitch prop now, there is no way switching to stainless steel, no matter how beneficial and remarkably better it will be, can make up 8-10 MPH in top speed.

I'll say it one more time: There is something very wrong, and the fact the motor "runs well" does not, in any way, necessarily mean it is not running on only three cylinders. Outboards can operate quite smoothly and normally when dropping a cylinder, they will just be a lot less powerful.

Another unanswered question I asked was if your "dealer" was also the dealer who sold you the boat. The reason I asked is because if it is, it may be the dealer is reluctant to look into a problem and have to admit he sold you a boat with mechanical trouble. I recommend an independent mechanic take a look.

Tom W Clark posted 06-07-2012 09:34 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Point of reference: I used the CW Search Function to quickly find this thread from a few years ago where the owner of a Dauntless 18 with a Honda BF130 reports his boat/motor hits speeds in excess of 40 MPH at 5800 RPM with a 13-1/4" x 15" stainless steel propeller:

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/005632.html

davej14 posted 06-07-2012 10:06 AM ET (US)     Profile for davej14  Send Email to davej14     
Tom,

Could Rich sequentially disconnect one spark plug wire at a time and observe the performance difference without risking engine damage ? If one cylinder was not contributing he would see no change with the spark plug wire removed. Just a thought.

Tom W Clark posted 06-07-2012 11:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Yes, that is one way to test for a dropped cylinder.

While I certainly think this motor is suffering from a profound loss of power, I should hasten to add that it could be any number of possibilities, not just a dropped cylinder.

Rich said he recently purchased this 12 year old boat. If it has sat on a dealer's lot in a rack for a long period, this carburetor equipped outboard could simply have clogged high speed jets. It may need the carburetor's removed, disassembled and cleaned.

RDLavery posted 06-18-2012 01:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for RDLavery  Send Email to RDLavery     
Hi Everyone, sorry for the late response to everything however I have not had to time to get out in the boat until this past weekend. The news is all though, I put a new prop on the boat and this has made all the difference. I went with a 13.25 17" and this has increased my speed by approx 8-9 miles an hour as now the boat tops out at 42 mph (gps) and about 43 or so on the speedo. Needless to say this has pleased me and has restored my faith in the Honda 130. My next move is to go to a Stainless Steel prop of the same size and at that point I can be done with it. Thanks to everyone for their I put, enjoy the summer on the water! Regards Rich
boatdryver posted 06-19-2012 10:00 AM ET (US)     Profile for boatdryver  Send Email to boatdryver     
Well, I wouldn't expect a 10 mph increase in speed (almost 1/3) just from increasing propellor pitch by 2 inches, and Rich doesn't state his WOT rpm with the 17 inch prop.

I wonder if the carbureted Honda 130, which had set for a long time, just finally started running right after Rich's several test runs and maybe fresh fuel.

JimL

Perry posted 06-19-2012 02:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
What was the RPM at 42 MPH?

Did you raise the motor?

If this speed was done with a aluminum 13.25 X 17 prop at 6000 RPM, perhaps a Honda 13-1/4" x 15" Turbo part # 08M60-ZW7-A00 will be a good choice afterall, especially if you raise the motor one bolt hole.

Keeper posted 06-20-2012 01:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for Keeper  Send Email to Keeper     
Tom W Clark is flat out GOOD !
captain paul posted 06-24-2012 12:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for captain paul  Send Email to captain paul     
This issue sounds almost identical to an issue I had when I got my Montauk. You guys delved into all these same things and asked the same questions when i was maybe thinking it was all the prop. I found a bad spark plug wire. I replaced it and it made all the difference and an increase of maybe 10 mph. I wonder if in all of this somehow one of Rich's plug wires was just now seated properly? I can't believe that prop change could make that much difference.

I added a Stilletto from Tom as he recommended and raised the engine with a jackplate and it now runs like a scalded dog. Although I never really push it and just cruise at moderate speeds and pull my little girl on a tube, it feels like a completely different boat. So Rich, my advice would be to get whatever prop Tom sends you or recommends regardless of what the dealer says. I couldn't be happier with the performance I now have.

Matty_Cardin posted 07-11-2012 11:52 AM ET (US)     Profile for Matty_Cardin    
Hey Gang, I just purchased a 2001 18' Dauntless with a 2000 Honda 130 4 stroke on it. The prop on the boat is an aluminum 13.25 x 17, 3 blade. I've doing some speed tests with the boat and have been reaching 38-40 mph with a half a tank of gas and only myself on the boat. I'm wondering if a 4 blade prop or a stainless steel prop would make any kind of performance difference? I should also note that the tachometer acts up and needs to be tapped every once ina while. I'm able to run the engine at WOT without it shutting down. In most cases, WOT is about 5800 RPM's (however, the tach does not show a redline at 6,000).

Your suggestions are very appreciated. This post and forum has been very helpful as a new BW Dauntless owner.

Cheers

Perry posted 07-11-2012 01:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
You have the same boat/motor combination as the OP and there were a couple of suggestions for propping his boat.

Is your speed measured by GPS and are you trimming the motor out to achieve max RPM at WOT?

How high is your motor mounted?

Does your boat have bottom paint?

What do you mean by: "the tach does not show a redline at 6,000"

There is no need for a 4 blade prop on your boat but a stainless Honda 13-1/4" x 15" Turbo part # 08M60-ZW7-A00 or a Stiletto Advantage 13-1/4 X 15" stainless prop would be a good choice.

Tom W Clark posted 07-11-2012 03:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
I suggest either a 13-1/4" x 15" Stiletto Advantage 4.25 or a 14" x 15" Star 4.25.

The motor should be raised as high as it can go, "Three Holes Up", if it is not already.

Matty_Cardin posted 03-31-2014 09:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for Matty_Cardin    
Hey Gang - I just came across a used Honda 13 1/4" x 15" stainless prop. I'm glad I could dig up this discussion from a while back. Thanks very much for your input. For the deal I'm getting, I can't really see why it's not worth trying.

I have had a track record of hitting shoals with my aluminum since I'm fishing in skinny areas - Should I be overly cautious running a stainless steel prop in skinny waters? The last thing I want to do is screw up gears in the lower unit. I don't believe the Honda prop uses a rubber hub. That would be the only downfall from not going with the stiletto advantage as I believe this one uses a rubber hub. Thoughts?

BTW - I'm picking up the prop for $75 in good condition, worst case I can trade to my mechanic for some free labor.

Thanks again.

tedious posted 04-01-2014 11:52 AM ET (US)     Profile for tedious  Send Email to tedious     
Matty, you'll hear from lots of people (and many dealers) that an aluminum prop will protect your gearcase because the blades will shear off. It is an old wives tale.

If you are hitting sandbars or mudflats, the stainless will not take any damage besides scratches, where with an aluminum prop you'll be paddling home.

Tim

Tom W Clark posted 04-08-2014 10:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
All modern outboard propellers, including those offered by Honda, have sacrificial hubs made of either rubber or plastic.

The idea that an aluminum propeller will protect the gears in the lower unit is a myth.

As I've written above, I recommend the Stiletto Star over the Advantage for this application.

Matty_Cardin posted 06-01-2015 11:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for Matty_Cardin    
Welp. The inevitable has happenend, just sooner than I would have preferred. Over the weekend, I dinged my Honda stainless steel propeller, causing about 1/8 to 1/4-inch dings on two of the 3 blades. I hit a rocky shoal going head speed, so nothing very major, but nonetheless, I am not comfortable running the propeller at WOT or at even higher-RPM.

I got a quote from H&H Propeller (here in New England). They quoted $260 to repair the propeller. My thought is to go with an aluminum propeller as my interim propeller until my stainless steel one is repaired. That will put me around $360 for a SS and a back up aluminum to keep in the boat.

I did throw around the idea of buying the Stilleto Star as Tommy W Clark suggests above, but that would run me $325 without a guarantee [that] I'll like it and no returns once I've used it. This would leave me with a brandy new stainless steel propeller and a bent up one as my spare.

Any objections or thoughts on the repair-and aluminum-propeller versus new-Stilleto-Star-and-a bent-SS-as-a-spare?

I'm also wondering the integrity and quality of repair able to be done on a stainless steel propeller. If anyone has experience with [repair of a stainless steel propeller], [to know quality and integrity of the repair] the would be helpful. Thanks, again--Matty C

jimh posted 06-11-2015 03:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
It is hard to know much about the integrity and quality of the repair of a stainless steel propeller as done by H&H Propeller of New England except from customers of that firm who have had repair work done. Maybe H&H Propeller has a list of endorsements from their customers you could refer to.

There is a school of through that repair of a propeller that has been damaged will never result in a repair as good as the original. This philosophy seems to suggest that the original propeller, as cast and hammered and filed and ground and polished by the factory, was the finest possible propeller, and no other artisan or craftsman or welder or grinder or technician or fabricator or workman on the planet could ever even come close to duplicating the original work. I think this philosophy is held by people who are infatuated with a particular brand or manufacturer, and hold that brand in such high esteem that they don't want to consider it even possible that another shop could duplicate their work or even come close.

A second school of thought holds that a new propeller, right out of the box, even from top-tier manufacturers, is just a work in progress, and there is no guarantee that the new propeller was really in great shape. Indeed, you can often discover rather obvious defects in propellers in mass production, just with simple observations, such as the position of the blade tip offset. It is not unusual to find one blade tip is drooping or raised by a 1/8-inch compared to the others on a new propeller. The balance might be off a bit, too. Defects like this are seen on new propellers. They are mass produced, not custom made, after all.

When a damaged propeller is repaired by a quality repair shop, it might end up in better than new condition, assuming it started out as a run-of-the-mill (and here that term is almost literal) product. A good repair shop will check the blades and the balance.

Will the repair have integrity? I suppose this depends on the skill of the repair person. If they are good welders they can add missing material with weldments that should be sufficiently strong to be as good as new.

As for integrity, I doubt you took your new propeller for X-ray examination for hidden porosity or flaws. Maybe the reason you need it repaired was due to a latent defect.

tedious posted 06-12-2015 12:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for tedious  Send Email to tedious     
Matty, for me the Star would be a no-brainer, even if you're buying it new. Any time the repair cost gets close to the new cost, new gets the nod.

However, I believe I have a Star in that size available - used for part of 1 season, perfect condition. It performed well, but had so much bite in reverse it would stall my F70, so I went back to the Advantage instead. If you went that route you'd have to buy a hubkit to match your Honda.

I can check this weekend and see if I still have it - don't think I sold it but want to double check.

If you are interested, email is in my profile.

Tim

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