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Author Topic:   OUTRAGE 19 Re-power

mkelly posted 12-20-2013 07:06 PM ET (US)
I know we've trumbled [grumbled?] over this discussion to death. I'm going to repower my Outrage 19 this winter with a [150-HP] Suzuki or Yamaha. Since we last talked, has much changed in everyone's opinion? Or, do we agree to disagree that they are quite comparable?
Marko888 posted 12-20-2013 09:00 PM ET (US)
I prefer the Suzuki design for the timing chain, but Yamaha has better support in most regions, which is probably the most important factor.
jimh posted 12-21-2013 09:06 AM ET (US)
According to the SUZUKI website, the advantages of their 150-HP compared to the Yamaha engine are:
--Multi-Stage Induction; boost torque and maximize power
--Offset Drive shaft; better balance on the transom
--Self adjusting timing chain v. overhead belt; no belt maintenance or adjustment necessary
--Easy access Shim and Bucket valve adjustment quick and accurate valve adjustment v. expensive service
--175 cu. in. v. 163 cu. in. No replacement for displacement
--2.5:1 v. 2:1; lower gear ratio to swing a larger prop for improved acceleration
--44 Ampere charging v. 35 Ampere; more power for your electronics
--8.0 quart oil reservoir v. 5.5 quart; more oil for better lubrication and cooling
--Dual Engine Flush Ports
http://www.suzukimarine.com/Product%20Lines/Outboard%20Motors/Products/ DF150/2012/DF150.aspx
OMCrobert posted 12-21-2013 11:06 AM ET (US)
Have you looked at the new 150hp 3.0 liter Four Stroke Mercury? It is getting very positive reviews.
mkelly posted 12-21-2013 02:58 PM ET (US)
I have heard good things about the Mercury, will look into it. I'm sure it's a good producer
mkelly posted 12-21-2013 06:54 PM ET (US)
Marko, could you let me know what the timing chain is all about, in terms of benefit? I'm obviously not much of a motor head....also, do you know if the Suzuki produces similar power stats as its competition? My Outrage dry weight is 1,900 lbs & the 1994 2.5L Merc pushed it around 44 MPH, would love 50+. I'm thinking about the 175 Suzuki or 200 Yamaha (it weighs in similar to the 150).
Marko888 posted 12-21-2013 10:56 PM ET (US)
A timing chain doesn't ever need to be replaced, where a belt does.
Be aware that I have no direct experience with either of theses engines, I have simply read a lot and talked to a few dealers over the last couple of years.
I also like the points noted in JimH's post, particularly more displacement and more oil capacity. A dealer who sells both told me that the Suzuki's have bigger bearings in their gearboxes. I have nothing against Yamaha's...I just think the Suzuki looks to be a bit better choice in a 150, IF you have a dealer in your area.
Marko888 posted 12-21-2013 11:00 PM ET (US)
If you some searching, you'll find reports of many 150's reaching high 45-48 mph, but few reach 50, so you may want the 175 or 200.
prj posted 12-23-2013 08:47 PM ET (US)
You don't clarify which model Outrage 19 you own, that could significantly influence recommendations.
Of the 1980's design Outrage 18, also known as an Outrage 19 in certain model years and variations ( I own one, a 1990 Outrage-19), exactly NONE have ever been reliably documented as hitting the 50 MPH + as you prefer with a 150 HP outboard.
While some here, including Jim H., suggest this 1980s version can hit 50+ with a 150 HP E-TEC, there is simply no evidence of such a feat. Its never happened in a controlled and documented manner. You should expect about 45 MPH with that rig.
Perhaps you'll get lucky and get a rig that goes 15% faster than anyone else that has documented a similarly powered combination. If you don't feel the luck, and want a 50+ MPH rig, and have a 1980s Outrage, get a 175 or 200 HP outboard.
jimh posted 12-28-2013 10:03 AM ET (US)

quote:
While some here, including Jim H., suggest this 1980s version can hit 50+ with a 150 HP E-TEC, there is simply no evidence of such a feat.
I also believe there is no evidence I ever suggested this!
prj posted 12-29-2013 11:45 AM ET (US)
Near the bottom of this article, Tom predicts 51-52 MPH and you, Jim, upping the ante on your more reasonable if still optimistic approaching 50 MPH prediction, "completely" concur with that estimate. An Outrage 18 with 150 HP will do about 45 MPH, give or take a couple.
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/007916.html
[I fixed your link for you--jimh.]
jimh posted 12-30-2013 02:03 AM ET (US)
Patrick--You are misrepresenting what I said in the thread you have referred to.
What I said in the portion of the other thread you have made references to is, simply put, if you had a boat with a 150-HP engine whose hull form could be modeled with a hull factor constant of about 180 in Crouch, and it went 46.2-MPH, then that same boat, with 500-lbs removed, should hit around 52-MPH. There was no mention of a brand. The principles of Crouch's calculations do not depend on brand of outboard. (I know brand of outboard is very important to some when making performance predictions, but it is not important to calculating performance with my implementation of Crouch's method: there is no input for brand of engine.)
To be clear, I do completely concur, accept, and agree with your statement:

quote:
....which model Outrage 19 you own...could significantly influence recommendations.
Buckda posted 12-30-2013 01:16 PM ET (US)
The mid-80's 18' outrage with a well tuned and properly set-up 150 HP outboard can pretty regularly hit 47 mph or so.
I saw that regularly with my 18' Outrage with 150 HP Black max and paced Cicada with a 150 HP Johnson at the same speed with my 18 when I had the twin 90 HP E-TEC engines.
mkelly posted 12-31-2013 06:19 PM ET (US)
It's an 1994 19' Outrage II, the much heavier version, 1,900 lbs dry weight. So the 150 is fine but I just want to take advantage of a repower & up it a bit. Looks like 175 Suzuki is going to be the motor, thanks all !

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Author	Topic: OUTRAGE 19 Re-power
mkelly	posted 12-20-2013 07:06 PM ET (US) I know we've trumbled [grumbled?] over this discussion to death. I'm going to repower my Outrage 19 this winter with a [150-HP] Suzuki or Yamaha. Since we last talked, has much changed in everyone's opinion? Or, do we agree to disagree that they are quite comparable?
Marko888	posted 12-20-2013 09:00 PM ET (US) I prefer the Suzuki design for the timing chain, but Yamaha has better support in most regions, which is probably the most important factor.
jimh	posted 12-21-2013 09:06 AM ET (US) According to the SUZUKI website, the advantages of their 150-HP compared to the Yamaha engine are: --Multi-Stage Induction; boost torque and maximize power --Offset Drive shaft; better balance on the transom --Self adjusting timing chain v. overhead belt; no belt maintenance or adjustment necessary --Easy access Shim and Bucket valve adjustment quick and accurate valve adjustment v. expensive service --175 cu. in. v. 163 cu. in. No replacement for displacement --2.5:1 v. 2:1; lower gear ratio to swing a larger prop for improved acceleration --44 Ampere charging v. 35 Ampere; more power for your electronics --8.0 quart oil reservoir v. 5.5 quart; more oil for better lubrication and cooling --Dual Engine Flush Ports http://www.suzukimarine.com/Product%20Lines/Outboard%20Motors/Products/ DF150/2012/DF150.aspx
OMCrobert	posted 12-21-2013 11:06 AM ET (US) Have you looked at the new 150hp 3.0 liter Four Stroke Mercury? It is getting very positive reviews.
mkelly	posted 12-21-2013 02:58 PM ET (US) I have heard good things about the Mercury, will look into it. I'm sure it's a good producer
mkelly	posted 12-21-2013 06:54 PM ET (US) Marko, could you let me know what the timing chain is all about, in terms of benefit? I'm obviously not much of a motor head....also, do you know if the Suzuki produces similar power stats as its competition? My Outrage dry weight is 1,900 lbs & the 1994 2.5L Merc pushed it around 44 MPH, would love 50+. I'm thinking about the 175 Suzuki or 200 Yamaha (it weighs in similar to the 150).
Marko888	posted 12-21-2013 10:56 PM ET (US) A timing chain doesn't ever need to be replaced, where a belt does. Be aware that I have no direct experience with either of theses engines, I have simply read a lot and talked to a few dealers over the last couple of years. I also like the points noted in JimH's post, particularly more displacement and more oil capacity. A dealer who sells both told me that the Suzuki's have bigger bearings in their gearboxes. I have nothing against Yamaha's...I just think the Suzuki looks to be a bit better choice in a 150, IF you have a dealer in your area.
Marko888	posted 12-21-2013 11:00 PM ET (US) If you some searching, you'll find reports of many 150's reaching high 45-48 mph, but few reach 50, so you may want the 175 or 200.
prj	posted 12-23-2013 08:47 PM ET (US) You don't clarify which model Outrage 19 you own, that could significantly influence recommendations. Of the 1980's design Outrage 18, also known as an Outrage 19 in certain model years and variations ( I own one, a 1990 Outrage-19), exactly NONE have ever been reliably documented as hitting the 50 MPH + as you prefer with a 150 HP outboard. While some here, including Jim H., suggest this 1980s version can hit 50+ with a 150 HP E-TEC, there is simply no evidence of such a feat. Its never happened in a controlled and documented manner. You should expect about 45 MPH with that rig. Perhaps you'll get lucky and get a rig that goes 15% faster than anyone else that has documented a similarly powered combination. If you don't feel the luck, and want a 50+ MPH rig, and have a 1980s Outrage, get a 175 or 200 HP outboard.
jimh	posted 12-28-2013 10:03 AM ET (US) quote: While some here, including Jim H., suggest this 1980s version can hit 50+ with a 150 HP E-TEC, there is simply no evidence of such a feat. I also believe there is no evidence I ever suggested this!
prj	posted 12-29-2013 11:45 AM ET (US) Near the bottom of this article, Tom predicts 51-52 MPH and you, Jim, upping the ante on your more reasonable if still optimistic approaching 50 MPH prediction, "completely" concur with that estimate. An Outrage 18 with 150 HP will do about 45 MPH, give or take a couple. http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/007916.html [I fixed your link for you--jimh.]
jimh	posted 12-30-2013 02:03 AM ET (US) Patrick--You are misrepresenting what I said in the thread you have referred to. What I said in the portion of the other thread you have made references to is, simply put, if you had a boat with a 150-HP engine whose hull form could be modeled with a hull factor constant of about 180 in Crouch, and it went 46.2-MPH, then that same boat, with 500-lbs removed, should hit around 52-MPH. There was no mention of a brand. The principles of Crouch's calculations do not depend on brand of outboard. (I know brand of outboard is very important to some when making performance predictions, but it is not important to calculating performance with my implementation of Crouch's method: there is no input for brand of engine.) To be clear, I do completely concur, accept, and agree with your statement: quote: ....which model Outrage 19 you own...could significantly influence recommendations.
Buckda	posted 12-30-2013 01:16 PM ET (US) The mid-80's 18' outrage with a well tuned and properly set-up 150 HP outboard can pretty regularly hit 47 mph or so. I saw that regularly with my 18' Outrage with 150 HP Black max and paced Cicada with a 150 HP Johnson at the same speed with my 18 when I had the twin 90 HP E-TEC engines.
mkelly	posted 12-31-2013 06:19 PM ET (US) It's an 1994 19' Outrage II, the much heavier version, 1,900 lbs dry weight. So the 150 is fine but I just want to take advantage of a repower & up it a bit. Looks like 175 Suzuki is going to be the motor, thanks all !