1989 Outrage 22, Yamaha Ox66 225-HP - Moderated Discussion Areas

  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: Whaler Performance
  1989 Outrage 22, Yamaha Ox66 225-HP

search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   1989 Outrage 22, Yamaha Ox66 225-HP

Russ 13 posted 12-22-2013 08:37 PM ET (US)
Does anyone have a classic Outrage 22 powered by a Yamaha Ox66 225? If so, what propeller brand and pitch are you using? Thanks--Russ
Peter posted 12-23-2013 08:16 AM ET (US)
10 years ago I had a Revenge 22 with a Yamaha 225 Ox66. The motor turned a 15 1/2 x 17 Yamaha Saltwater Series propeller. It ran well with that. That is what I would put on.
Teak Oil posted 12-25-2013 11:01 AM ET (US)
Russ I have a 22 Outrage with a 225 'rude and run a 14.5 x 19 SST with good overall results. I ran lower pitches and could get right to 6000 rpm redline but I like the mid range speed of the 19" pitch better and still get to 5600 rpm with a good load in the boat.
Peter posted 12-25-2013 09:05 PM ET (US)
Propping an Evinrude isn't a great indicator of what works for a Yamaha Ox66 225. The Yamaha has a WOT maximum RPM of 5500 RPM and it turns a propeller through a 1.81:1 gear ratio. The Evinrude, on the other hand, has a WOT maximum RPM of 6000 RPM and turns a propeller through a 1.86:1 gear ratio.
Russ 13 posted 12-25-2013 10:26 PM ET (US)
So far I have tried a 19P Stiletto that seems to be pretty good.
Although the prop has good bite, the blades seem somewhat small.
I was hoping to be able to spin a 21P, but that may be too much pitch…..
as I do not want to overload the engine.
I hope to try the 21 Sunday & see what top RPM is reached.
Peter posted 12-26-2013 08:41 AM ET (US)
I don't think you will be able to turn a 21P with that motor without overloading it. Ideally, you want that Ox66 to turn right around 5500 RPM when the boat is mid to lightly loaded, turning not less than 5200 when fully loaded.
Make sure you use RingFree or equivalent to keep carbon down on O2 sensor. A dirty O2 sensor will have an impact WOT RPM.
Russ 13 posted 12-26-2013 10:18 PM ET (US)
Thanks,
yes I use ring free & yamalube exclusively and just cleaned the O2 sensor.
So hopefully Sunday I can see what it does, weather permitting.
jimh posted 12-27-2013 02:27 PM ET (US)
ASIDE: I always thought that the Yamaha Ox66 series of two-stroke-power-cycle outboards was about the pinnacle of the classic outboard development, and the reason for that was the use of a closed loop fuel induction system. The presence of some sort of sensor in the exhaust stream that provided feedback to the fuel induction control system was an uncommon feature found only in the Ox66.
Tom W Clark posted 01-01-2014 12:36 PM ET (US)
A 15-1/4" x 19" Mercury MIRAGEplus will do very well, better than the Yamaha Saltwater Series II, but a better prop to try might be the 13-3/4" x 20" Mercury Enertia.
Be sure the motor is mounted two holes up on the transom, not just one.
Russ 13 posted 01-04-2014 05:51 AM ET (US)
I have not had the time or good weather to "test" the 21P.
The last Mercury prop I used was a Lazer 2 & it performed very well on a 15' Whaler.
What is the difference between:
The MIRAGE PLUS & the ENERTIA..??
Thanks, Russ
Peter posted 01-04-2014 01:33 PM ET (US)
There is a big difference in blade shape between the Mirage Plus and Enertia. Based on my experience with the Mirage Plus and other propellers with blade shapes similar to the Enertia, I recommend going with the Enertia. The Mirage Plus would not keep its grip in choppy water, making for an uncomfortable ride.
Russ 13 posted 01-05-2014 05:48 AM ET (US)
Which one has more blade rake,
Between the two Mercury Props??
Tom W Clark posted 01-05-2014 12:35 PM ET (US)
At first glance, you might think the relatively small diameter (13-3/4") Enertia will not have much blade area compared to the large dimeter (15-1/4") MIRAGEplus but there is far more to propeller design than just pitch and diameter.
The Enertia does, in fact, have quite a bit of blade area because of its unique blade geometry (shape). The Enertia's blades sweep around the hub far more than the MIRAGEplus. The Enertia also has with a broad blade root.
To answer your question, the Enertia has blades that are more raked.
I disagree that the MIRAGEplus will loose grip and provide an uncomfortable ride; that has not been my experience on 22' Whalers I have experimented with props on, but the Enertia will tolerate a higher motor mounting height.
The motor should be mounted at least two holes up on the transom.
As always, experimentation is the best way to find what propeller works best on your now boat/motor combination. Theoretical debate online is not always as fruitful.
Russ 13 posted 01-07-2014 10:25 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the info..
Tom always interesting to learn from your experience.
I am running a jack-plate so height adjustment is easy.
..
I have found the higher rake props, help to improve bow lift, when the hull is on a plane.
Now busy with work so testing the 21P will have to wait.
jimh posted 01-08-2014 11:39 AM ET (US)
I think the outboard engine gear case design affects how a propeller performs. I noticed that a Mercury MIRAGEplus propeller had a tendency to blow out when I was running it on the gear case of my 1992 Evinrude 225-HP outboard engine, but, when I mounted the same propeller on the same boat but now on the gear case of my 2010 Evinrude E-TEC 225, the Mercury MIRAGEplus showed no sign of losing its grip. The gear case design on my 2010 Evinrude E-TEC is the M2 gear case, which has a different shape. The M2 has a straight leading edge (SLE) design. I cannot attribute the difference in performance of the Mercury MIRAGEplus propeller to any other influence. Actually, I am running the propeller one-hole higher now on the E-TEC than I was on the old V6. On this basis I have inferred that the outboard engine gear case design can affect the propeller's performance.
Russ 13 posted 01-11-2014 04:55 PM ET (US)
Jim, as a side note, how is your performance between the two Evenrudes? My guess is that the fuel consumption would be far less with the new engine. Also, what is the blade diameter of the enertia if you measured the diameter of the prop from blade tip to blade tip?
jimh posted 01-11-2014 05:44 PM ET (US)
Russ--the E-TEC outperforms the older V6 in every category, except cost of engine.
Russ 13 posted 01-21-2014 04:20 PM ET (US)
Hoping to get it wet this weekend, and get some prop data.
Russ 13 posted 02-04-2014 08:45 PM ET (US)
Ok, finally got out in the boat today. The Stainless prop with the side vents, stamped 21M allowed the engine to spin up to 5,600 RPM at 48.6 MPH. Not bad for a 22' with bottom paint and a T-Top. The jack-plate does allow the engine to run higher and provides a 5-inch set-back. Between the Stiletto 20P that spins up to 5300 RPM and tops out at 45 MPH and the above prop, the 21M is a better performer. The 21M also seems to move the boat faster at all RPM than the Stiletto, and rough water grip is close to the Stiletto, although not quite as good, as the Stiletto has more cup on the blade edges. (Had a little extra cup added to the Stiletto, by the local propeller shop, when the prop was on a different boat). Both comparisons were done with the same weight onboard, the same jack-plate, and the same trim settings. On a side note, the prop is close in blade shape to a Stiletto. The only stamping on the prop is 21M. To describe there are three U shaped cuts in the hub roughly 3/4-inch long and 1/4-inch wide, that allow exhaust gas to vent out. And the hub has a flare at the open end, where it is larger in diameter than the rest of the hub. Any idea what brand made their stainless props this way? Thanks, Russ
Tom W Clark posted 02-04-2014 09:12 PM ET (US)
The 21M tells us it is a Yamaha M Series propeller (fits large gearcase motors) and it has 21" of pitch.
By your description I suspect it is a 14-1/4" x 21" Yamaha Pro Series model. This is what Yamaha says about the Pro Series:
"Provides high performance for single-outboard, high-speed boats requiring “bow lift”, such as mid- to large-sized bass, bay and flats boats. Made of high-quality stainless steel."
It is also an expensive prop bought new:
http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/yamaha/outboard/Y-6J9-45976-10-00.html
As you have found it is a fast propeller and if top speed is your primary goal, I'd say keep it.
I still recommend you try a MIRAGEplus or Enertia.
Tom W Clark posted 02-04-2014 09:13 PM ET (US)
CORRECTION: 14-1/2" x 21" Yamaha Pro Series
Russ 13 posted 02-04-2014 09:22 PM ET (US)
Thanks Tom. Now I know what brand it is. And that explains the good bow lift at WOT. I will try one of those Mercury props, later this year. Most of the time I run around 25 to 30-MPH and would like a good midrange prop. My next expense is to replace my bow hatch, another pricey part.

Hop to:

Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.

Author	Topic: 1989 Outrage 22, Yamaha Ox66 225-HP
Russ 13	posted 12-22-2013 08:37 PM ET (US) Does anyone have a classic Outrage 22 powered by a Yamaha Ox66 225? If so, what propeller brand and pitch are you using? Thanks--Russ
Peter	posted 12-23-2013 08:16 AM ET (US) 10 years ago I had a Revenge 22 with a Yamaha 225 Ox66. The motor turned a 15 1/2 x 17 Yamaha Saltwater Series propeller. It ran well with that. That is what I would put on.
Teak Oil	posted 12-25-2013 11:01 AM ET (US) Russ I have a 22 Outrage with a 225 'rude and run a 14.5 x 19 SST with good overall results. I ran lower pitches and could get right to 6000 rpm redline but I like the mid range speed of the 19" pitch better and still get to 5600 rpm with a good load in the boat.
Peter	posted 12-25-2013 09:05 PM ET (US) Propping an Evinrude isn't a great indicator of what works for a Yamaha Ox66 225. The Yamaha has a WOT maximum RPM of 5500 RPM and it turns a propeller through a 1.81:1 gear ratio. The Evinrude, on the other hand, has a WOT maximum RPM of 6000 RPM and turns a propeller through a 1.86:1 gear ratio.
Russ 13	posted 12-25-2013 10:26 PM ET (US) So far I have tried a 19P Stiletto that seems to be pretty good. Although the prop has good bite, the blades seem somewhat small. I was hoping to be able to spin a 21P, but that may be too much pitch….. as I do not want to overload the engine. I hope to try the 21 Sunday & see what top RPM is reached.
Peter	posted 12-26-2013 08:41 AM ET (US) I don't think you will be able to turn a 21P with that motor without overloading it. Ideally, you want that Ox66 to turn right around 5500 RPM when the boat is mid to lightly loaded, turning not less than 5200 when fully loaded. Make sure you use RingFree or equivalent to keep carbon down on O2 sensor. A dirty O2 sensor will have an impact WOT RPM.
Russ 13	posted 12-26-2013 10:18 PM ET (US) Thanks, yes I use ring free & yamalube exclusively and just cleaned the O2 sensor. So hopefully Sunday I can see what it does, weather permitting.
jimh	posted 12-27-2013 02:27 PM ET (US) ASIDE: I always thought that the Yamaha Ox66 series of two-stroke-power-cycle outboards was about the pinnacle of the classic outboard development, and the reason for that was the use of a closed loop fuel induction system. The presence of some sort of sensor in the exhaust stream that provided feedback to the fuel induction control system was an uncommon feature found only in the Ox66.
Tom W Clark	posted 01-01-2014 12:36 PM ET (US) A 15-1/4" x 19" Mercury MIRAGEplus will do very well, better than the Yamaha Saltwater Series II, but a better prop to try might be the 13-3/4" x 20" Mercury Enertia. Be sure the motor is mounted two holes up on the transom, not just one.
Russ 13	posted 01-04-2014 05:51 AM ET (US) I have not had the time or good weather to "test" the 21P. The last Mercury prop I used was a Lazer 2 & it performed very well on a 15' Whaler. What is the difference between: The MIRAGE PLUS & the ENERTIA..?? Thanks, Russ
Peter	posted 01-04-2014 01:33 PM ET (US) There is a big difference in blade shape between the Mirage Plus and Enertia. Based on my experience with the Mirage Plus and other propellers with blade shapes similar to the Enertia, I recommend going with the Enertia. The Mirage Plus would not keep its grip in choppy water, making for an uncomfortable ride.
Russ 13	posted 01-05-2014 05:48 AM ET (US) Which one has more blade rake, Between the two Mercury Props??
Tom W Clark	posted 01-05-2014 12:35 PM ET (US) At first glance, you might think the relatively small diameter (13-3/4") Enertia will not have much blade area compared to the large dimeter (15-1/4") MIRAGEplus but there is far more to propeller design than just pitch and diameter. The Enertia does, in fact, have quite a bit of blade area because of its unique blade geometry (shape). The Enertia's blades sweep around the hub far more than the MIRAGEplus. The Enertia also has with a broad blade root. To answer your question, the Enertia has blades that are more raked. I disagree that the MIRAGEplus will loose grip and provide an uncomfortable ride; that has not been my experience on 22' Whalers I have experimented with props on, but the Enertia will tolerate a higher motor mounting height. The motor should be mounted at least two holes up on the transom. As always, experimentation is the best way to find what propeller works best on your now boat/motor combination. Theoretical debate online is not always as fruitful.
Russ 13	posted 01-07-2014 10:25 PM ET (US) Thanks for the info.. Tom always interesting to learn from your experience. I am running a jack-plate so height adjustment is easy. .. I have found the higher rake props, help to improve bow lift, when the hull is on a plane. Now busy with work so testing the 21P will have to wait.
jimh	posted 01-08-2014 11:39 AM ET (US) I think the outboard engine gear case design affects how a propeller performs. I noticed that a Mercury MIRAGEplus propeller had a tendency to blow out when I was running it on the gear case of my 1992 Evinrude 225-HP outboard engine, but, when I mounted the same propeller on the same boat but now on the gear case of my 2010 Evinrude E-TEC 225, the Mercury MIRAGEplus showed no sign of losing its grip. The gear case design on my 2010 Evinrude E-TEC is the M2 gear case, which has a different shape. The M2 has a straight leading edge (SLE) design. I cannot attribute the difference in performance of the Mercury MIRAGEplus propeller to any other influence. Actually, I am running the propeller one-hole higher now on the E-TEC than I was on the old V6. On this basis I have inferred that the outboard engine gear case design can affect the propeller's performance.
Russ 13	posted 01-11-2014 04:55 PM ET (US) Jim, as a side note, how is your performance between the two Evenrudes? My guess is that the fuel consumption would be far less with the new engine. Also, what is the blade diameter of the enertia if you measured the diameter of the prop from blade tip to blade tip?
jimh	posted 01-11-2014 05:44 PM ET (US) Russ--the E-TEC outperforms the older V6 in every category, except cost of engine.
Russ 13	posted 01-21-2014 04:20 PM ET (US) Hoping to get it wet this weekend, and get some prop data.
Russ 13	posted 02-04-2014 08:45 PM ET (US) Ok, finally got out in the boat today. The Stainless prop with the side vents, stamped 21M allowed the engine to spin up to 5,600 RPM at 48.6 MPH. Not bad for a 22' with bottom paint and a T-Top. The jack-plate does allow the engine to run higher and provides a 5-inch set-back. Between the Stiletto 20P that spins up to 5300 RPM and tops out at 45 MPH and the above prop, the 21M is a better performer. The 21M also seems to move the boat faster at all RPM than the Stiletto, and rough water grip is close to the Stiletto, although not quite as good, as the Stiletto has more cup on the blade edges. (Had a little extra cup added to the Stiletto, by the local propeller shop, when the prop was on a different boat). Both comparisons were done with the same weight onboard, the same jack-plate, and the same trim settings. On a side note, the prop is close in blade shape to a Stiletto. The only stamping on the prop is 21M. To describe there are three U shaped cuts in the hub roughly 3/4-inch long and 1/4-inch wide, that allow exhaust gas to vent out. And the hub has a flare at the open end, where it is larger in diameter than the rest of the hub. Any idea what brand made their stainless props this way? Thanks, Russ
Tom W Clark	posted 02-04-2014 09:12 PM ET (US) The 21M tells us it is a Yamaha M Series propeller (fits large gearcase motors) and it has 21" of pitch. By your description I suspect it is a 14-1/4" x 21" Yamaha Pro Series model. This is what Yamaha says about the Pro Series: "Provides high performance for single-outboard, high-speed boats requiring “bow lift”, such as mid- to large-sized bass, bay and flats boats. Made of high-quality stainless steel." It is also an expensive prop bought new: http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/yamaha/outboard/Y-6J9-45976-10-00.html As you have found it is a fast propeller and if top speed is your primary goal, I'd say keep it. I still recommend you try a MIRAGEplus or Enertia.
Tom W Clark	posted 02-04-2014 09:13 PM ET (US) CORRECTION: 14-1/2" x 21" Yamaha Pro Series
Russ 13	posted 02-04-2014 09:22 PM ET (US) Thanks Tom. Now I know what brand it is. And that explains the good bow lift at WOT. I will try one of those Mercury props, later this year. Most of the time I run around 25 to 30-MPH and would like a good midrange prop. My next expense is to replace my bow hatch, another pricey part.