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Author Topic:   OUTRAGE 22 Whaler Drive Re-powered with Honda BF250
whalersailor1 posted 05-21-2014 10:45 AM ET (US)   Profile for whalersailor1   Send Email to whalersailor1  
I just launched my rebuilt 1989 Outrage 22 with Whaler Drive. It has been repowered with a Honda 250 that is fantastic. Here is my concerns:

When I run the boat and get over about 30-nautical miles per hour, the boat starts to lean over and heal to port. I have a Mirage 17-pitch propeller. As I increase [engine] speed, the lean increases. It is not overly dramatic, but I have never had this happen before.

I do not have trim tabs, but I never had them on my classic 18 or prior 22, which never experience this lean. I'm assuming [the cause of the lean is the] the propeller.

I have two batteries, one on either outboard side contained within the enclosed transom. There is no other weight [distribution] I'm aware of that would cause the boat to be off balance.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Tom W Clark posted 05-21-2014 10:59 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
The list to port is caused by propeller torque and is usually exacerbated by a motor mounted too low, the trim tab not be adjusted and too much negative trim being used.

How is the new motor mounted?

Have you moved the trailing edge of the trim tab on the motor to starboard?

jimh posted 05-21-2014 11:07 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
The affect of weight distribution in the hull would have a static effect, and it would be very unlikely that such weight distribution would only manifest its effect when the boat speed reached a certain threshold.

The most likely cause of the lean to Port is from propeller torque. This can be mitigated by engine trim and use of the torque tab on the lower side of the anti-ventilation plate.

I have the same hull, but in a REVENGE 22 with Whaler Drive, and I am using a similar propeller, a Mercury MIRAGEplus 17-pitch. I do not see any particular tendency for the boat to lean to port. I generally run at lower cruising speeds than you are reporting. Typically I cruise about 25 to 27-MPH, which, if you prefer to discuss speed in nautical miles per hour, would be about 21.7-nautical miles per hour to about 23.4-nautical mile per hour.

Your speed of 30-nautical miles per hour or 34.5-MPH is faster than my typical cruising speed, but I do run the boat in that speed range from time to time when the water is calm and I am in a hurry. I don't recall ever noticing any significant tendency to lean hard to Port.

Try the suggestions give in the Boston Whaler owner's manual at html#trimTab

Also, I must mention that the presence of a cross wind can affect the tendency of the hull to lean, particularly as the speed increases and there is less hull in the water. There is a tendency, although it seems counter intuitive, to lean into the cross wind.

Finally, consider that having a very large SONAR transducer on the transom could act like a trim tab. Do you happen to have any really large SONAR transducers mounted on the hull transom or Whaler Drive transom?

jimh posted 05-21-2014 11:21 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Let me add this additional comment, regarding weight distribution:

In my experience, I do find that weight distribution can have an effect at higher speeds. I am perhaps contradicting my earlier statement a bit. When the hull gets onto plane it become more sensitive to weigh distribution than when the hull is at rest because the effective beam of the hull is reduced. I use shifting of my own weight or my crew--almost always only one crew aboard--to help maintain level trim at times. This is usually only needed with cross winds. The lean can be in either directions, Port or Starboard. If the boat is leaning to Port I usually ask my crew to shift their position (from the Port seat at the helm) slightly to Starboard. If the boat is leaning to Starboard, I shift my weight (from the Starboard seat at the helm) slightly to Port. This slight shift in weight will usually overcome any lean on the boat, which, as I mention, occurs mostly only when we have a crosswind.

Also, as Tom mentioned engine mounting height, I should tell you I am running the engine with a mounting height of one-hole up (from lowest position).

Regarding engine trim, one nice feature of the Whaler Drive is the ability to crawl out onto it while on plane and see the relationship of the anti-ventilation plate relative to the water. I have found it useful to get my crew to run the boat while I crawl out on the Whaler Drive. I then use the cowling mounted engine trim switch to adjust the engine trim so the anti-ventilation plate is running parallel to the water. (Do this only in calm water.)

I then note the trim position reading. Having a trim gauge with very fine resolution (one part in one-hundred) I can then note the trim setting and use the gauge to return to that position in the future.

jimh posted 05-21-2014 11:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Re the SONAR transducer as a trim tab, see html#fathometer

which mentions this effect and recommends a Port side mounting.

whalersailor1 posted 05-21-2014 11:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for whalersailor1  Send Email to whalersailor1     
Thanks for the great responses and advice.

My engine is mounted as low as it can go so we definitely need to pull it up one, if not two holes.

The torque tab is centered. So I take it we need to tweak it counter-clockwise to counter the heal?

Finally, we did unfortunately mount our sonar transducer on the starboard side. Had no idea or thought about its effect on the hull angle.

Will get to work on these adjustments. Thanks guys!

Tom W Clark posted 05-21-2014 12:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Based on the discussion here:

...I would move the BF250 up two more holes.

The trim tab on the motor corrects for steering pull, not a list, but usually if you adjust it correctly so the steering is equal effort in both directions, this will ease the list to port. If the trim tab is set straight, then it has not been adjusted correctly.

On a standard rotation motor, the trailing edge of the trim tab is always set to starboard. How much is what you need to figure out.

Adjust the motor mounting height first as it will affect the steering torque.

jimh posted 05-21-2014 10:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Re the engine mounting height: you should observe the position of the anti-ventilation plate relative to the water surface when the boat is running on plane at the upper speed range. The anti-ventilation plate should sit just out of the water flow around the gear case.

On my boat with my engine, one-hole-up mounting has the anti-ventilation plate still in the water. I have thought about raising it one more hole to the two-hole-up position, but I am hesitant to make that move. I use the boat in a lot of big water situations, and I don't want to induce any tendency to ventilate the propeller. There might be 1-MPH or 2-MPH more top speed available if I raised the engine, but I am willing to forgo that speed increase to retain the best possible propeller traction.

Exactly where the anti-ventilation plate will end up with your engine and hull depends on several factors, such as the general trim on the hull and the propeller characteristics. If your static hull trim is slightly bow high, if your engine shaft length is a bit longer, or if your propeller does not have much stern lift, you might need to go to a higher mounting.

For some images of the position of anti-ventilation plates, see

A-V Plate Pictures

The last picture in the thread shows my engine on the Whaler Drive on my 22-foot hull.

whalersailor1 posted 06-16-2014 08:15 AM ET (US)     Profile for whalersailor1  Send Email to whalersailor1     
I have had the engine re-mounted two holes up. I now have serious cavitation on whole shot, when turning, and generally any time I advance the throttle too quickly or even if I tilt the engine up from its lowest setting.

This makes me believe I need to lower the engine back down one hole (originally it was all the way down, then lifted two holes up).

I still have a slight list to port, which I plan to correct by having my sonar transducer remounted from the starboard the port transom.

I'm continuing to use a Mirage Plus 17P prop.

Thoughts on what additional measures I should try? Correct mounting height, different prop, etc?

Teak Oil posted 06-16-2014 01:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for Teak Oil  Send Email to Teak Oil     
If you want to keep the engine where it is you may need to try another prop. I just tried a Revolution 4 on my Outrage this weekend (mounted all the way up) and the grip was fantastic.

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