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  1991 Guardian 19, E-TEC 300

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Author Topic:   1991 Guardian 19, E-TEC 300
Don SSDD posted 12-23-2014 08:37 PM ET (US)   Profile for Don SSDD  
There is a boat and trailer near here with a 2010 E-TEC 300-HP for sale for $14,500 (all figures in Canadian dollars). The outboard engine has 250-hours and is under warranty to March 2015.

A Guardian 19 weighs 1750-lbs as compared to a Outrage 18 at 1,250-lbs dry weight. The Guardian is rated for a maximum 150-HP, same as an OUTRAGE 18. I always thought a larger outboard would not be out of line. At 40-percent more weight, why not 40-percent more horsepwer? Say, 210-HP.

How would a cheap 300-HP work? [Buy that boat and then] sell the boat and trailer for $8,000 to $10,000, and I have an E-TEC 300-HP for $5,000? And only 140-lbs more than the 1994 140 Evinrude on there now--just leave home a friend or some fuel.

Could take up drag racing too.

Don

jimh posted 12-24-2014 08:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I see two flaws with the plan. The first is your valuation of the boat, trailer, and engine package and the contribution of each component to the value. The asking price for all three is $14,500. Since the engine in this package is fairly new, and since it has a replacement cost of perhaps $20,000, if the engine is removed from the package the value of the remaining boat and trailer will have to be reduced. Your plans calls for the value to only be reduced by $5,000. In other words, you suggest that the contribution of the E-TEC 300-HP engine to the package is only $5,000, and that the boat and trailer have an intrinsic value of $9,500.

I tend to agree that in some combinations of boat-trailer-engine the combined value may not be as great as the individual value, and, if one could find suitable buyers, it might be more profitable to sell the individual components of the package to separate buyers, resulting in a higher total value. But in this assessment, your evaluation of the E-TEC's contribution to the package's total value seems too low. My estimate of the value of a recent model E-TEC 300-HP engine in good condition with only 250-hours and under warranty is much higher than $5,000.

The second flaw in the plan is the excessive horsepower that would result if you installed a 300-HP engine on a boat rated for 150-HP. That is a doubling of the power over the rated power, and that is just too much horsepower for the boat.

tedious posted 12-24-2014 08:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for tedious  Send Email to tedious     
Don, after some head scratching, I think I get your idea - buy the other boat with the 300 on it, swap the 300 for the 140 Evinrude on the Guardian 19 that you own, and sell the other boat with the 140.

Three challenges that I see:

1) will you really get $8 to $10K for that boat and your 20 year old motor? That seems unlikely - the boat can't be much of a prize.

2) what will your insurance company, or the local enforcement folks, think about a 300 on a boat rated for 150? Seems like that could be a problem.

3) While powerful for its weight, the 300 is still a LOT of weight to put on the transom of an 18/19 hull. I could see going for the E-TEC 200, but it's over 100 pounds less.

Tim

Teak Oil posted 12-26-2014 09:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for Teak Oil  Send Email to Teak Oil     
Your boat would be extremely stern heavy and more prone to taking water over the stern, also to boat would have a tendency to porpoise with no weight in the bow. My 22 with a 300 and the batteries in the console still wants to porpoise under certain circumstances.

A 2.6 liter 200 E-tec would be perfect on your hull and get you to about 50 mph.

Don SSDD posted 12-27-2014 08:48 AM ET (US)     Profile for Don SSDD    
The boat is a 2010 Hydro 25 ft center console, whatever that is, it looks in great shape. The trailer is a 2010 tandem axle galvanized trailer, so its quite a good package for the asking price of CDN$14500? With all of this being a 2010, it looks like it was a package deal when new. Check Kijiji Halifax if you want to see pics.

I'm not really serious about a switch to a 300, might be tempted if it was a 200.

I don't understand why the rating on the much heavier built Guardian is still 150HP but the law is the law (insurance and policing). Would have to change the stickers to a 150 if I installed it ( :-) )?

I could "legally" put a 2010 Honda or Yamaha 4 stroke on there, they weigh about 40 lbs less than the 300.

I've looked at used late model etec prices for the 150 ($7-12K), they are much less attractive than this 300. The 300 is located 5 miles from my home too.

It was 18C/65F here yesterday, a good day for boating on Mahone Bay, except for the 3 inches of rain.

Just an interesting discussion.

Thanks,

Don

Teak Oil posted 12-28-2014 01:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for Teak Oil  Send Email to Teak Oil     
A four year old boat and trailer for 14500 sounds too good to be true, maybe its stolen
crow posted 12-28-2014 02:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for crow  Send Email to crow     
Teak Oil,

Putting horsepower aside- I disagree that 528 lbs on the transom of a Guardian 19 would make the boat "extremely stern heavy" I don't think that is accurate.
I'm also extremely surprised to hear that your Outrage 22 has a tendency to porpoise with only 528 lbs on the transom.

tedious posted 12-29-2014 07:55 AM ET (US)     Profile for tedious  Send Email to tedious     
Don, at some point a good deal is a good deal, and if you can jump on it and sell at a profit in the spring, go for it!

However, unless you find a very inexperienced buyer and take advantage of them, I don't think anyone is going to be impressed by the performance of your 140 on a 25-footer!

How's the boating in your area? I visited a long time ago, and it looked like an interesting coastline, but pretty exposed in a blow.

Tim

Don SSDD posted 12-29-2014 10:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for Don SSDD    
Tedious, Mahone Bay has lots of Islands that break up the ocean swells in a big blow, depending on where you are. It has lots of public sandy beaches on islands as well, so a nice spot to picnic can be easily found. It is also a fairly big beautiful bay with almost no people or boaters and a fair number of docks with restaurants like Lunenburg, Chester, etc. Where are you located?

I use NADA guides for weights on used outboards, they list a 2010 300 Evinrude at 518 lbs. Maybe that excludes 2 stroke oil or rigging, but then so would the other weights (maybe the motor oil in a 4 stroke is excluded too)?

Hard to get "apples to apples" weights when comparing brands on used outboards?

Don

Teak Oil posted 01-02-2015 06:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for Teak Oil  Send Email to Teak Oil     
Crow,

In addition to my E-tec I also have a 120# Yamaha kicker, which is still not too bad for stern weight. Its when I have 2-3 adults in the stern seat also and a heavy load of fuel that you can really feel the weight in the back, and the boat will want to porpoise at speeds over 45 mph.

With a big bock V6 the Guardian will be fine with a half load of fuel and two guys fishing, just be sure to figure in for all conditions (full fuel, full livewell, stern seat, etc) when making the decision to repower

tedious posted 01-05-2015 07:51 AM ET (US)     Profile for tedious  Send Email to tedious     
Don, we live in Massachusetts but do our boating in midcoast Maine - Boothbay Harbor area. Very similar coastline to yours, probably even a bit rockier. I look at the maps of Mahone Bay - looks like a great area!

Happy New Year!

Tim

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