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Author Topic:   V-22 Revenge Re-power
ColderByTheLake posted 03-23-2015 05:33 PM ET (US)   Profile for ColderByTheLake   Send Email to ColderByTheLake  
I [have] a 1980 V-22 Revenge with 70-gallon fuel tank, a stainless [steel?] radar arch, an 8-HP kicker, canvas, and down riggers, that is used on Lake Superior. I am considering re-powering with an Evinrude E-TEC 225 H.O., a 225-HP, or a 200 H.O. The boat's max horsepower rating is 240-HP. I would consider the new Evinrude E-TEC 74-degree V6 engine at 200-HP or 225-HP.
jimh posted 03-26-2015 11:41 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I do not think the smaller displacement V6 engine, the 200-HP, would be appropriate. I recommend the larger displacement engines using the 3.3-liter V6 90-degree block. They are the 200 H.O., and 225 and higher power ratings.

As for buying a model designated in the H.O. series, I don't know if there is any advantage for a boat like a Boston Whaler REVENGE 22, as typically the goal is not maximum top speed. I think the H.O. engines are tuned more for being run at high throttle settings most of the time. I don't really know what difference there is in horsepower. Is there a difference between a 200-HP and a 200 H.O.? I really can't offer any advice. Compare the price. Ask your dealer.

jimh posted 03-28-2015 08:13 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
If I were to buy a new outboard engine for my 22-foot Revenge, I would give the Evinrude E-TEC 74-degree V6 engines a careful look. The rigging associated with the E-TEC 74-degree V6 engine is quite different than prior E-TEC engines, so the rigging dealer will have to be acquainted with the new methods of installation and rigging these engines.

If you are considering a standard E-TEC, you should have moved forward on this sooner. A very attractive sales incentive expires in a few days. You must take delivery of the new engine by March 31, 2015 in order to receive the incentives, so you'd be limited to buying an engine that was in stock at your dealer, as there are just three days left.

The incentive was not applicable to the 74-degree V6 models, so if you are leaning in that direction, there is no rush.

seahorse posted 03-28-2015 01:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for seahorse    
quote:
As for buying a model designated in the H.O. series, I don't know if there is any advantage for a boat like a Boston Whaler REVENGE 22, as typically the goal is not maximum top speed. I think the H.O. engines are tuned more for being run at high throttle settings most of the time.


The HO designation is for either a high performance (output) model identification or for engine model distinction.

The 150, 225, and 250 HO's designate high performance engine models which are specially tuned for maximum output.

The 15, 135, and 200 HO's differentiate the engine design from other models of the ratings but are still standard tuned motors.

andygere posted 04-02-2015 11:39 AM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
I would argue that the smaller 2.6-liter-displacement 60-degree 200-HP E-TEC is ideal on the [REVENGE V-22] hull. I've been running one on my 1989 Outrage 22 Cuddy since 2007. The small block is considerably lighter, which makes a difference when carrying a kicker, downriggers and a couple of guys in the stern tending to them. It makes more than enough power, has great acceleration and pushes my boat to 40-MPH, which is more than enough top end. My boat has a T-top and bottom paint, carries a 15-HP kicker, and the oil tank and two batteries are all located in the splashwell. I have great freeboard and can run with the stern sump plugs out and never get water on the deck. Even when the boat is loaded up with gear for overnight cruising, the boat performs great and never feels like it's under powered.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/andygere/ Monterey%20cruise%202010/PA090048.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/andygere/ Monterey%20cruise%202010/PA090045.jpg

JMARTIN posted 04-02-2015 04:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for JMARTIN  Send Email to JMARTIN     
I'm with Andy on the lighter weight 2.6 liter especially with that big cut out in the transom. 40 mph is plenty fast since the hull seems to like 25 to 28 mph for fuel economy.

John

Teak Oil posted 04-02-2015 06:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for Teak Oil  Send Email to Teak Oil     
The boat would perform fine with the small block E-tec.

With the G2 you get a bigger engine, about 5mph more top speed, and better fuel economy by 10% if you believe the Evinrude marketing and engineering folks.

You also get integrated power steering, fly by wire controls (no more steering or throttle cables or linkage) and the swappable side panels, if that matters to you.

The G2 will have much stronger performance compared to a small block G1, and will feel like the motor is more than 25hp bigger.

andygere posted 04-03-2015 12:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
Does anybody know the difference in price between the 2.6L 200, the G1 200 H.O., the G1 225 and the G2 225? Those cost differences would be a part of many re-power decisions.
jimh posted 04-07-2015 08:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Andy--I am sure the 74-degree V6 E-TEC engines will cost more. Since they provide integral power steering, you have to factor that into the higher price. They also have electronic throttle and shift. I think if you added electronic throttle and shift and power remote steering to the cost of the standard E-TEC, the cost of the 74-degree V6 E-TEC would be attractive. Who really knows how much any outboard engine costs at retail now? They all sell for unique prices in every deal.
jrp posted 04-07-2015 09:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for jrp  Send Email to jrp     
Be sure to shop around, too. I recently received a quote for a 150 HP re-power that was [more than] $4,000 different than a price someone said they recently paid for a similar 150-HP re-power. I was surprised to see so much variability.
jimh posted 04-08-2015 10:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
It has been two weeks since COLDERBYTHELAKE began this discussion, but he has not followed-up with any comments about all the replies he has elicited. I am beginning to think we are talking amongst ourselves.
andygere posted 04-09-2015 11:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
jimh, I think you are right about us talking among ourselves, but it's an interesting chat and I'm happy to continue without LostByTheLake. I think the new 74 degree motors are quite interesting in terms of incorporating the advanced features that you mentioned. It would be interesting to see how much all that integrated technology costs compared to the old way of rigging with separate components.

I did find a post on another boating forum that publishes MSRP pricing for these motors, but I don't know how accurate the information is. It looks reasonable.

http://checkmate-boats.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29904

I can't decide if I like the looks of the new style E-TECs. While having a choice of color options is nice, I don't think the angular shape of the cowl is going to look quite right on a classic Whaler 22 foot hull. The 60 and 90 degree models look quite at home there, and have nice proportions that are similar to the motors these boats would originally be rigged with.

jimh posted 04-10-2015 01:12 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I tend to agree with Andy's observation: the new E-TEC 74-degree V6 cowlings are quite angular, and I don't know how they will look on the transom of a classic old boat like a Boston Whaler OUTRAGE or REVENGE.

From what I know--and it's not much--the price of the 74-degree V6 is reasonably comparable to the 90-degree V6 E-TEC once you add to the older engine the options included with the new engine. But the cost of these newest outboard engines is getting rather high.

When I bought my 2010 model-year E-TEC it was 2009. The boating business was in a sales slump. I got a great deal on the engine. My dealer told me, "You'll never see another one at that price again." I am glad I bought it when I did. I would be less inclined to re-power if the cost approaches $20,000 per engine.

The technology of the new E-TEC 74-degree is very good. They make more power, produce better fuel economy, and have lower emissions. They are a win-win-win in all three areas simultaneously. The new ICON II EST controls are really nice, and simpler to rig than the earlier ICON controls. The integral steering is just wonderful. The new rigging tube and rigging method cleans up the transom area of all those lose cables that have to move with the engine--it's a great improvement.

But I am quite happy with my 2010 E-TEC. It will be starting its seventh season of operation in a few months, and it has been a joy to own, run, and fiddle with.

By the way, I just bought some gasoline on the highway for less than $2/gallon using a discount offer from the retailer that builds "points" to save on fuel. At that cost for gasoline it makes little sense to worry about improving fuel economy with a new engine. It will take decades to work off the investment in saved fuel.

andygere posted 04-10-2015 01:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
If I were buying a new boat, I would definitely want one (or more) of the 74 degree E-TECs on it. I do love the clean, simplified rigging, and after watching some of the promotional videos, I noticed that the integral steering and electronic throttle and shift controls seem to provide some real enhancements in close quarter maneuvering. The aesthetics would be a better fit on a modern hull like the current Vantage models or big Conquests. Since owning one of these boats is a bit of a dream, I can make it a real fantasy in that I might one day buy a new, big Whaler with state-of-the-art E-TEC outboards on it.
martyn1075 posted 04-10-2015 09:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for martyn1075  Send Email to martyn1075     
I will never argue with the smart thinking in regards to the engineering of the Etec. They know how to build an engine. However someone was really thinking left field on the exterior design.

The old saying goes don't judge a book by its cover BUT if I am paying over 15k for a new engine I really do want it to look great! There is one trim color package that looks like a Pepsi can on a the back of a transom. They just look odd.

The other saying goes beauty is in the eye of the beholder or maybe it should be the one who is the holder, holder meaning holding the money.

jimh posted 04-11-2015 10:41 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Go see the new E-TEC in person. I don't give any credence to opinions about its size or shape made without actually seeing the engine. Things in the real, three-dimensional world often look different from the way they appear in the two-dimensions of a photograph.
martyn1075 posted 04-11-2015 01:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for martyn1075  Send Email to martyn1075     
Sometimes true to see things in person. I will give you a good example.

To many the Honda Ridgeline is ugly. Time after time we hear what were they thinking, or, wow it's like a toy truck or a car with a bed. The engineering happens to be very good, it's reliable, strong, useful more interior as well everyday storage than a full size. It does what its supposed to do, it will go beyond its specifications.

However it never really sold all that well. Why? Because it was ugly. It was also cutting edge and different and I think the designers were hoping that would be the outcome and it would somehow revolutionary change the way small or midsize trucks look in the future. They were wrong; it didn't. I think E-TEC is trying the same thing here in something that is different and cutting edge. I wish them luck but in many cases its hard to change people's way of life and how they expect it to look because others look a certain way. Maybe the Etec is a niche market like the Ridgeline and that is their goal. There is no money in that equation so I doubt most would think that way unless they are making it up in another segment which could be true to both respected companies.

Don SSDD posted 04-11-2015 06:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for Don SSDD    
I think the look of the new E-TEC engines is aimed at the younger generation, the ones who love tattoos, WFC, and other things we old fogies don't get. Do these people buy boats? That is the question.

I think it could sell well based on its looks to people not like us?

Performance: it should sell very well. If it is as good as your 2010 Jim, it will sell well in my humble opinion. Maybe Brunswick will buy it. It would be attractive to many of the people who buy their boat brands?

Don

Mike Kub posted 04-11-2015 08:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for Mike Kub  Send Email to Mike Kub     
The new E-TEC engine is uglier than [a Honda] Ridgeline.
jimh posted 04-12-2015 09:43 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I am sure everyone has an opinion about the appearance of any product. I don't really care about collecting opinions about the appearance of products, and, particularly from people who have not even seen the product.

This thread is in the PERFORMANCE discussion, so perhaps we could talk about the performance of boats and outboard engines.

If the appearance of products were more important than their performance, utility, and reliability, then we'd all own Italian outboard engines.

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