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Author Topic:   1999 Outrage 17 Re-power
eriedeary posted 06-17-2015 10:00 PM ET (US)   Profile for eriedeary   Send Email to eriedeary  
First, I would like to thank all for such valuable resources, especially jimh. Many thanks!

I am window-shopping new Mercury four-cycle outboard engines for my 1999 Boston Whaler OUTRAGE 17. The Mercury OptiMax 135 has been good to me, once I learned not to run her at 650 to 700-RPM for hours on end--thanks to this site.

An engine of 115-HP is light, but concerned about under-powering. An engine of 150-HP weighs more than the OptiMax by about 15- to 20-lbs. I currently use 5-HP (Briggs) auxiliary engine on this transom with the OptiMax. The boat lists a little and starboard scupper is always taking in water. I want a solution for this OUTRAGE 17 that has treated me well, but I also understand I may be asking too much from this 17-footer. I simply may have outgrown her. By the way, I am working on anchor pulpit also :)!

Thanks again--RH

jimh posted 06-18-2015 08:35 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Have you considered the Mercury ProXS 115-HP? The ProXS is the new name for the engines from Mercury using the Orbital Combustion Process. They used to call these engines OptiMax engines.

How did you decide to limit your choice to Mercury and to their four-cycle engines?

I would not worry about an increase in the engine weight of only 15 to 20-lbs. A modern engine can probably troll all day and the need for the 5-HP auxiliary may no longer exist.

vtvfr posted 06-18-2015 10:03 AM ET (US)     Profile for vtvfr  Send Email to vtvfr     
I re-powered my 1996 Outrage 17II (same as your 1999) two years ago. I replaced the original carburetor Evinrude 150 with an E-TEC 150 that weighs about 50-lbs more. While the stern does sit a little lower, water coming in the scuppers [has not been a concern]. The E-TEC 150 weighs about 425-lbs, so a new motor in that weight range should be okay.
Drowningbait posted 06-28-2015 09:55 AM ET (US)     Profile for Drowningbait    
I have the same boat, mine is a 1998 OUTRAGE 17. I bought it about three weeks ago knowing that it was under-powered with a 1997 Honda 90. My original plan was to keep this engine for a couple of years and then buy a new one. After taking it out a couple of times I now don't think I can wait that long. So, due to budget, I have to get a used engine. I have seen a couple in my price range--under $5,000. There is a 2006 Honda 150 for $5,800 with a lot of hours--1,300--but supposedly runs great. The other is a 2000 Yamaha Saltwater Series 150, newly re-built. All new pistons and rings. Basically the guy selling it says it would even have to be broken in like a new motor. Also, I have found a 2004 Evinrude 175 for around $4,000. The guy selling says it has 500 hours and has zero problems, the compression is great and he said he would hook it to a computer to show me that there are zero error codes. There are plenty of certified marine mechanics in my area for all three engines, so service shouldn't be an issue. I plan on using this boat for fishing and family outings. I just want a reliable motor that keeps repairs to a minimum. I don't mean to hijack this thread but I was wondering what you guys thought. I have been reading threads on this site since before I bought a boat and just joined today. The threads here have given me a lot of helpful info. So, thank you for that!
jimh posted 06-28-2015 12:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I can't offer any opinion on whether or not a Honda F90 four-cycle engine is really too little horsepower for an OUTRAGE 17. If you decide you must have more power, you will have to pay for a replacement engine with more power--which can be expensive because the cost of horsepower is not always linear.

A few years ago I re-powered my boat with a new engine. I was concerned about the cost--I think everyone who owns older boats is cost conscious. If a person were not constrained by a budget, they'd just go buy a new Boston Whaler 345 CONQUEST for $500,000. Because I was concerned about cost, I waited until I found a buyer for the outboard engine I already had on my boat. It took a while. But much like the situation with Drowningbait, a buyer came along in June, when boating season was starting to go full swing. I did not quite get my full asking price, but I got a substantial amount of money for my outboard engine. The money from selling my outboard engine was a significant part of the cost of buying its replacement. I recommend that approach, that is, advertise your Honda F90 engine for sale. While you have it on your Boston Whaler OUTRAGE 17 boat you can easily demonstrate to any buyer that the engine starts and runs without any problem. The ability to demonstrate the engine will make it much easier to sell the engine.

A 90-HP outboard engine is a very popular size and power range. There should be many interested buyers. Get a buyer, get your price. Now you have your existing asset turned into cash.

I would be VERY cautious buying any engine which has "just been rebuilt." VERY cautious. When an outboard engine is rebuilt, the future durability and reliability and freedom from disaster depends entirely on the skill of the person doing the rebuilding. Without knowing the person or firm that performed the rebuild of the engine and without having the utmost confidence in them due to personal knowledge and experience with their work, I would never buy a re-built engine. It could blow up in 20-hours. Since you are not the customer of the vendor who did the rebuilt, you likely would have no recourse or remedy from the rebuilder.

When re-powering a boat there is a strong incentive to re-use the existing engine rigging. If you have to buy all new engine rigging--mechanical cables, electrical cables, remote throttle and shift controls, gauges, warning alarms, and so on--the expense of the re-power project increases significantly. This usually means sticking to the same manufacturer as the original engine.

I also recommend you give the new boat more time on the water before you decide that you must have more than 90-HP. You describe the intended uses as "fishing and family outings." A 90-HP ought to be sufficient for that. The notion that a boat must be powered with the absolute maximum power permitted is often encouraged by participants here. If the 90-HP can get the boat onto plane with your family aboard and with all their gear, and maintain the boat on plane without having to be run at full throttle, it ought to be enough to let you enjoy a season or two of boating.

Drowningbait posted 06-28-2015 12:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for Drowningbait    
Thank you for the response. Ok, I guess I could give it a couple of more outings. It does stay on plane not running at wide open throttle but it certainly doesn't get there in a hurry. So you think I should ride this out like my original plan and buy a new motor after a couple of years? Not used? Or buy a less used motor that is only 1 or 2 years old after a season or 2?
martyn1075 posted 06-29-2015 02:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for martyn1075  Send Email to martyn1075     
I saw [a Boston Whaler OUTRAGE 17] boat tonight with a 150 Honda. I took a picture and will post it when I get a chance. It looked fantastic but it's performance is likely equal. It didn't appear to be out of place and stern heavy where it would squat the transom.

Speaking of Honda maybe it was just a coincidence but there were sure a lot of boats repowered with Honda's on the back. Mainly fishing boats in the range of 17-25 foot range. A few whalers in that mix as well.

masbama posted 06-29-2015 09:38 AM ET (US)     Profile for masbama  Send Email to masbama     
Always thought the Suzuki 140hp would be a good match for that hull.
msirof2001 posted 06-29-2015 12:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for msirof2001  Send Email to msirof2001     
When I repowered my 1995 Outrage 21 with a Yamaha F200 XB, there was a program called "Powermatch" which basically stated that if I re-did the rigging with the repower, I would get a 1-year warranty on the rigging. I wanted to post the costs so that you have at least one point of reference. The before-tax estimate which included Yamaha Square Gauges and Reliance SDS Prop was $2,473 in excess of the actual engine. The Square gauges were $870.65 and the prop was $584.60. These prices were March 2014. So if you back out the gauges and prop, the rest of the rigging was $1018.65.

My personal feeling was that my boat was 20 years old and in the saltwater environment for the whole time. Some of my concerns leading to my re-power were things like the starter seizing, and the wire leading to it burning. By the way, that wire was bundled with the fuel line but thankfully it didn't catch on fire. Going far offshore a lot, my thought was to pay the extra price for the rigging rather than chancing it.

tedious posted 06-29-2015 01:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for tedious  Send Email to tedious     
Don't assume a shop will do a better job rigging than you can. After all, I assume you're not the dingbat who routed the battery cable next to the fuel line, right?

Some shops do well, but I've seen a lot more bad repair work than good. My favorite hack job is still my sister-in-law's Outrage 18; the shop had routed the discharge hose for the bilge pump over the transom to end below the waterline, but above the pump. It was a very effective siphon back into the boat. And yes, the shop carefully drilled holes in the transom to secure the hose all the way down.

Tim

msirof2001 posted 06-29-2015 03:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for msirof2001  Send Email to msirof2001     
My brain is too small to do my own rigging, and I don't have the tools, parts or facilities. What I described is what was done prior to me taking delivery of the boat, as new, from the dealer (I'll leave out their name). This was in Oct 1994 when Whalers could have any engine brand and rigging was done at the dealer.

My repower was done at a Yamaha 5-Star Gold dealership and I'm glad the rigging is new.

martyn1075 posted 06-29-2015 05:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for martyn1075  Send Email to martyn1075     
Photo of the 17 Outrage with Honda 150.

http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz55/martyn1075/ honda%20150%2017%20Whaler.jpg

Drowningbait posted 06-29-2015 06:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for Drowningbait    
That 150 Honda looks real good on there! Looks HUGE! But good! My honda 90 looks like a 150 on the back of mine, wish it performed like it! I have recently thought of using the Suzuki 140 when and if I re-power with a new or fairly new motor. I've heard some pretty good reviews about Suzuki.
n1ywb posted 07-01-2015 04:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for n1ywb  Send Email to n1ywb     
Outboard rigging is trivial and requires no special tools or skills. Buy premade steering and control cables of the appropriate length. Tie messenger lines to the old cables as you pull them out. Tape (don't tie; knots get stuck) new cables and outboard electrical cables to messengers and pull through bilge. Screw and connect everything together. Done.
Drowningbait posted 07-05-2015 08:17 AM ET (US)     Profile for Drowningbait    
Ok, I hope everyone had a happy 4th! Mine was, Ummm lets just say frustrating! I had decided that I was going to keep my 90 hp Honda and ride it out for a couple of more years, based on welcomed advice from this site. So, I took the motor to the only certified Honda master marine mechanics shop in my area, just to have them do a few things. Replace anodes, fix an exhaust leak, and thermostats. Simple enough right? Well, I get the boat back Friday afternoon and take it out Saturday morning. It's running great, at first. Then I felt the boat sputter, well the guy told me that the carbs will need to be cleaned so I chalked that sputter up to dirty carbs and didn't think anything of it. I drive about another 100 yards and now she's really riding rough! I look back at my motor and water is pouring out from under the cowling!!!! It then makes a kinda "pop" sound and shuts off. I take the cowling off and of course water pours out. Oh, I'm in saltwater btw! Beautiful waters off boca grande! Anyway, after I take the cowling off I look and the water hoses are not connected to anything!!!! They are just in there where they are supposed to go, but not connected!!! Now what I'm wondering is do you think the mechanic will own up to the mistake or will they somehow try to blame me? I think my motor seized up. What should my next steps be? I'm of course taking it back to them monday. Any advice from you guys would be greatly appreciated!
masbama posted 07-05-2015 12:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for masbama  Send Email to masbama     
If he doesn't own up tell him to read this forum.
jimh posted 07-05-2015 06:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
What you have described is a tragedy. The best hope is you stopped the motor before it overheated and caused damage.

You and the mechanic are probably going to have a few issues to resolve. And here, I use issue in the real sense of its meaning--a dispute about an important question.

I hope it works out for you. By the way, did you have insurance on the boat and the outboard engine? Sometimes good insurance can rescue you from a potential loss situation. Or, maybe the mechanic has good insurance, too.

jimh posted 07-05-2015 06:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
By the way, as the latest installment of ERIEDEARY's narrative suggests, the rigging of an outboard engine is NOT TRIVIAL, despite the suggestion from N1YWB that it is. Outboard engine rigging requires skill, care, good technique, and knowledge. As we have just seen, not everyone can perform outboard rigging to an expert level--in this case not even a mechanic trying to earn a living as an outboard engine repairer.
Drowningbait posted 07-05-2015 09:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for Drowningbait    
Hahaha, well my wife likes your insurance response. She has been on me since we bought it 3 weeks ago to get insurance. I was going to buy insurance monday. I'm hearing a few "I told you so's!" from her now! I wasn't convinced that I should buy insurance.... Well let's just say, I lost that arguement!
tedious posted 07-06-2015 08:21 AM ET (US)     Profile for tedious  Send Email to tedious     
I can't imagine any insurance policy you could buy would help in this situation - clear case of an oops on the part of the mechanic, and they should cover repairs or pay you the value of the motor.

By the way, be sure to save any documents from the repair, and take lots of photos BEFORE you take it back to the shop.

Mistakes happen, and hopefully the shop will own up to it and make it right. Good luck!

n1ywb posted 07-07-2015 11:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for n1ywb  Send Email to n1ywb     
What part of outboard rigging involves disconnecting water lines inside the cowling?
Peter posted 07-07-2015 01:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
The only water lines that would be disconnected (not necessarily under the cowling however) in derigging an outboard are a small water pressure line running to a mechanical water pressure gauge, if it has one and possibly a water pressure line running to the pitot speed sensor on the motor leg, again if it has one.
n1ywb posted 07-07-2015 03:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for n1ywb  Send Email to n1ywb     
Drowningbait, when you fired it up did you happen to check for the telltale stream?
Drowningbait posted 07-07-2015 06:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for Drowningbait    
Hello everyone! Good news! The motor is not blown! The mechanic owned up to the mistake of not putting a clamp on the water hose. He said that the water pressure is greater under the load of driving than it is when it's just hooked to the hose at his shop. He reconnected and put a new clamp on and she fired right up! No mess no fuss! He said its running fine. And to bring it back if I think it's not after I take it out next time. And yes, It did have a stream when I first fired it up but I didn't keep checking while I was driving. It must have come off shortly after I fired it up because I didn't go very far. Whew! What a relief! I was beginning to decide between which kidney to sell so I could afford a new motor!
jimh posted 07-09-2015 04:02 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
N1YWB: If your premise--"Outboard rigging is trivial and requires no special tools or skills"--were true, perhaps DROWNINGBAIT should have asked some 12-year-old kid in the neighborhood to look into his engine problem.
jimh posted 07-09-2015 04:06 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
DROWNINGBAIT--your news is very good news. Now you can offer your HONDA 90-HP for sale and tell buyers, "Recently serviced by mechanic with excellent integrity."

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